As you think we should "simply" leave the EU, what's your solution to the Irish border? "Simply" leaving the EU, without a deal, would mean we are (pretty much) the only country in the world without a trade deal with anyone. And if we were to patch up that hole by means of reliance on WTO as a trading bloc, we would need to demonstrate that our customs border (ie, the border between Northern Ireland (the UK) and the EU) is controlled. It's not now and it's impossible to set up control within the seven months remaining.
So, what's your solution to the Irish border, in the event that we did as you suggest and "simply leave"?
Well partition has been shite so the only way is reunification with dominion status under the control of a Governor General. Rees Mogg will do.
I assume you are taking the absolute piss here right?
There are none so blind as those that will not see.
There are tens of thousands of British Pensioners in France on far from fat pensions. Such labelling is deeply offensive.
Many moved to France to avoid the exorbitant house prices of the UK and have built lives in France. They spent their working lives paying into the National Health Service which is recognised by the current Carte Vitale service managed through the UK Social Security Department in Newcastle.
Without health care many will simply not be able to stay in France. Where do you suggest they go? They will not be able to afford to return to the UK. They will have no immediate access to even the most rudimentary health care.
The idea that they will be able to afford private cover will not apply because no insurance company will cover many of their existing ailments. Whatever cover will be available for people in their 60's & 70s will be exorbitantly expensive.
This is what happens when you ignore the details.
The headlines themselves will cause significant stress and concern for many who are already receiving regular often life preserving treatment for their ailments today.
My wife received 3yrs treatment for kidney cancer before passing in 2015. I cannot imagine what my reaction would have been had she still be receiving treatment.
It is the second blow for such a group of people following the possibility of losing access to pension annuity payments due the UK leaving the EU regulatory deposit governance.
The UK has had 2 yrs to sort this out. These are simple basic principles of human life which could have been guaranteed in a heartbeat. Now 6 months before the due date they are threatened with complete turmoil.
Don't worry it won't happen there will be a deal no longer stands scrutiny.
Quite literally lives could depend on it. It only needs one CPAM region to block access to health cover and chaos will ensue. People will simply not go to the doctor or hospitals for fear of incurring huge bills that will potentially bankrupt them.
Anybody familiar with the bureaucracy in France will know it takes 6 months to get anything done.
Those in France and across Europe have received nothing but platitudes from the UK Authorities regarding their ability to stay living their lives as they were once apparently free to do.
I realise there are very many that have long suffered Brexit overload and now really do not give a shit. Some probably did not give a shit in the first place but ridiculous categorisations of those affected serve no one.
Ladies and gentlemen for some the rubber just hit the road.
Did these impoverished pensioners retire and then move to France, or did they move when they were younger then retired? How many are we talking about?
London’s new Crossrail underground line is to open in autumn 2019 - nine months after its scheduled launch.
Transport for London (TfL) said more time is needed.
Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said millions "believe that in future, summer time should be year-round, and that's what will happen".
That's it then no Crossrail ever under the EU, just leave now, get out, run away, fuck off.
I'm assuming you're linking this to today's news that the EU are going to have a vote on a proposal put forward from Finland that BST should last all year round & scrap the Spring / Autumn 1 hour changes.
One of the proposals is that individual member states can keep the GMT/BST changes but the EU would ideally want all 28 (although will be 27 as the vote is likely to be post March next year) to adopt the policy so there is "harmonisation".
I can understand some countries wanting to scrap GMT & others not wanting too - and this is the problem with "Europe" trying to be as one. Finland is in a completely different metrological position to say Portugal or some Eastern European countries. There is no "one size fits all" and is the main reason why I voted to Leave.
As you think we should "simply" leave the EU, what's your solution to the Irish border? "Simply" leaving the EU, without a deal, would mean we are (pretty much) the only country in the world without a trade deal with anyone. And if we were to patch up that hole by means of reliance on WTO as a trading bloc, we would need to demonstrate that our customs border (ie, the border between Northern Ireland (the UK) and the EU) is controlled. It's not now and it's impossible to set up control within the seven months remaining.
So, what's your solution to the Irish border, in the event that we did as you suggest and "simply leave"?
No idea. not my problem. The Government "simply" asked me whether I wanted to stay in the EU or not. I said I'd rather we were outside of the EU. Up to politicians on all sides to work out how its done. I had assumed that before they asked the question that they had the answer on how it would be done. Silly me.
I am now of the persuasion that it would be easier to stay in. Not that I want to mind, just that it would be easier than leaving. Not better in my mind, just easier. Then the Government can get on with governing the country & not arguing with everyone about an issue that HAS no answer.
However, I wont EVER believe in anything a politician ever says again. Wont vote for anyone - will just spoil my ballot paper.
Thanks for answering this. I happen to agree with most of it. I agree it's up to politicians on all sides to work out how to leave. I agree it was silly of you (and me, and everyone else) to assume the government knew how it could have been done. I agree it would be easier to stay in.
But I don't agree it's not your problem. It absolutely is. And it's the problem of everyone else who voted leave. Or who voted remain. Or who didn't, or couldn't vote. We are all impacted (although, of course, not equally). So we all have to do what is required to deliver what we think is least harmful. In some cases that's telling the politicians what we think they should do to carry out the decision we reached. And in some cases, it's changing our mind. I'm glad to see you're firmly in the latter category now.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
I will say this one last time as I've had enough of repeating myself.
How & why is the "solution" down to the leave voters ?? Please tell me how I, as an individual, can do anything about how the UK leaves rhe UK ??? Do you want me to meet Michel Barnier and negotiate ?? Do you want me to go to Ireland & build a border ?? I am genuinely interested how you expect or want me to "own it" & to come up with a solution.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
I will say this one last time as I've had enough of repeating myself.
How & why is the "solution" down to the leave voters ?? Please tell me how I, as an individual, can do anything about how the UK leaves rhe UK ??? Do you want me to meet Michel Barnier and negotiate ?? Do you want me to go to Ireland & build a border ?? I am genuinely interested how you expect or want me to "own it" & to come up with a solution.
thank you.
If the solution is not down to the leave voters who is it down to? Those who voted remain?
For me, the Government's complete inability (and probably unwillingness) to do anything to actually address the impasse over Stormont is the only thing that makes me consider the current fixation on their inability to manage Brexit with even a modicum of efficiency at all positively, because all that has been demonstrated here is how completely incapable the Government is of governing - no decision is so small, simple and straightforward that it does not utterly paralyse those supposed to lead the rest of us.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
I will say this one last time as I've had enough of repeating myself.
How & why is the "solution" down to the leave voters ?? Please tell me how I, as an individual, can do anything about how the UK leaves rhe UK ??? Do you want me to meet Michel Barnier and negotiate ?? Do you want me to go to Ireland & build a border ?? I am genuinely interested how you expect or want me to "own it" & to come up with a solution.
thank you.
If the solution is not down to the leave voters who is it down to? Those who voted remain?
down to the fecking Government !!! (whose leader voted to remain btw & is in charge of everything - so YOU can blame HER if it all goes wrong )
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
I will say this one last time as I've had enough of repeating myself.
How & why is the "solution" down to the leave voters ?? Please tell me how I, as an individual, can do anything about how the UK leaves rhe UK ??? Do you want me to meet Michel Barnier and negotiate ?? Do you want me to go to Ireland & build a border ?? I am genuinely interested how you expect or want me to "own it" & to come up with a solution.
thank you.
If the solution is not down to the leave voters who is it down to? Those who voted remain?
down to the fecking Government !!! (whose leader voted to remain btw & is in charge of everything - so YOU can blame HER if it all goes wrong )
Not if what is voted for is impossible. If there was a referendum offering all citizens eternal life, and Theresa May voted against the idea because she thought it couldn't be done, do the citizens blame her if it doesn't happen? With no regard as to why it hasn't happened?
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
I will say this one last time as I've had enough of repeating myself.
How & why is the "solution" down to the leave voters ?? Please tell me how I, as an individual, can do anything about how the UK leaves rhe UK ??? Do you want me to meet Michel Barnier and negotiate ?? Do you want me to go to Ireland & build a border ?? I am genuinely interested how you expect or want me to "own it" & to come up with a solution.
thank you.
If the solution is not down to the leave voters who is it down to? Those who voted remain?
down to the fecking Government !!! (whose leader voted to remain btw & is in charge of everything - so YOU can blame HER if it all goes wrong )
Not if what is voted for is impossible. If there was a referendum offering all citizens eternal life, and Theresa May voted against the idea because she thought it couldn't be done, do the citizens blame her if it doesn't happen? With no regard as to why it hasn't happened?
Imagine how much you’d spend on blue passports if you lived forever.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
Read Facts4eu.org.... And if you knew everything on those pages and still voted remain and that goes for everyone on you're side, you clearly did not know what YOU were voting for.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
Read Facts4eu.org.... And if you knew everything on those pages and still voted remain and that goes for everyone on you're side, you clearly did not know what YOU were voting for.
I'm not sure that a site that promotes white nationalist (white supremacist) propaganda about a supposed white farmer genocide in South Africa is all that terribly reputable as a source (they also manage to describe Katie Hopkins as a "journalist").
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
Read Facts4eu.org.... And if you knew everything on those pages and still voted remain and that goes for everyone on you're side, you clearly did not know what YOU were voting for.
Ahh yes that highly reputable and well known news organisation facts4eu.org
Every time I read that simply cancelling Brexit would result in 'severe civil uprisings' and so forth, I do wonder what would actually happen. Brexiteers, what would you do?
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
Yes, that's what I said. Vote for remain or the fully explained alternative option.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
I don’t think you could have a three option referendum, especially on this subject.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
No responsibility taken for your mistake/ deliberate and considered ideological position. Not your decision whether others hold you accountable though. The much maligned political class can be deselected, voted out, pressured to resign. You can smugly sit in your bunker blaming everyone else but you and those like you that are obviously and overtly defensive about taking your share of any blame accruing. The worst of the self righteous smug Thatcherite legacy that fucked this country over.
A referendum choice between either crashing out of a chequers deal would be unattractive to me, one of the choices should be remain.
I have huge reservations about another referendum or people's vote, but not because I accept the first result and want to get on with it.
My issue has been about the crippling price that will need to be paid for brexit, or if there is an unwillingness to pay the price (e.g.a heavily militarized land border in Ireland or turning Manston airport into the world's biggest lorry park) then it simply is not possible to do brexit at all because of the impossibility of the practical details.
Letting the government sort it out is like you fancy a cuppa, but you expect your dog to make the tea.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
I don’t think you could have a three option referendum, especially on this subject.
Why not?
The three options would be absolutely distinct (remain; go with the government's preferred option of a deal; go with the hard brexiteers' option of a no-deal). The three options cover everything. And, with a single transferable vote, we end up with a clear winner.
Fair, properly explained, definitive. And no-one (even remainers) could complain at the result: we are better informed than we were and the implications of each vote will be far better understood.
Neither Remain or Leave voters should fear it: if they firmly believe they have the will of the people on their side, and that close examination will demonstrate they're right, they should embrace it.
And it will be interesting to see whose political careers are ruined as a result.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
I don’t think you could have a three option referendum, especially on this subject.
Why not?
The three options would be absolutely distinct (remain; go with the government's preferred option of a deal; go with the hard brexiteers' option of a no-deal). The three options cover everything. And, with a single transferable vote, we end up with a clear winner.
Fair, properly explained, definitive. And no-one (even remainers) could complain at the result: we are better informed than we were and the implications of each vote will be far better understood.
Neither Remain or Leave voters should fear it: if they firmly believe they have the will of the people on their side, and that close examination will demonstrate they're right, they should embrace it.
And it will be interesting to see whose political careers are ruined as a result.
Absolutely right, @Chizz . I think YouGov have already run an opinion poll based on the three options. And the result didn't look good for the Hard Brexit nutters.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
I don’t think you could have a three option referendum, especially on this subject.
Why not?
The three options would be absolutely distinct (remain; go with the government's preferred option of a deal; go with the hard brexiteers' option of a no-deal). The three options cover everything. And, with a single transferable vote, we end up with a clear winner.
Fair, properly explained, definitive. And no-one (even remainers) could complain at the result: we are better informed than we were and the implications of each vote will be far better understood.
Neither Remain or Leave voters should fear it: if they firmly believe they have the will of the people on their side, and that close examination will demonstrate they're right, they should embrace it.
And it will be interesting to see whose political careers are ruined as a result.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
I don’t think you could have a three option referendum, especially on this subject.
Why not?
The three options would be absolutely distinct (remain; go with the government's preferred option of a deal; go with the hard brexiteers' option of a no-deal). The three options cover everything. And, with a single transferable vote, we end up with a clear winner.
Fair, properly explained, definitive. And no-one (even remainers) could complain at the result: we are better informed than we were and the implications of each vote will be far better understood.
Neither Remain or Leave voters should fear it: if they firmly believe they have the will of the people on their side, and that close examination will demonstrate they're right, they should embrace it.
And it will be interesting to see whose political careers are ruined as a result.
I agree as somebody who voted remain that brexit is my problem because I will be impacted. However I don't agree the solution is my problem. The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
It is extemely easy for us. We were the winning side in the referendum put to us. Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe. We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered) We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU. We don't need to do anything.
I get it. Really I do. The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of. Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then? I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy. Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt? Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
Personally, I think the negotiated deal or no deal options should be put to the public. The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative. If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
Maybe the option to remain as before ought to be added to the two options you mention. The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
I don’t think you could have a three option referendum, especially on this subject.
Why not?
The three options would be absolutely distinct (remain; go with the government's preferred option of a deal; go with the hard brexiteers' option of a no-deal). The three options cover everything. And, with a single transferable vote, we end up with a clear winner.
Fair, properly explained, definitive. And no-one (even remainers) could complain at the result: we are better informed than we were and the implications of each vote will be far better understood.
Neither Remain or Leave voters should fear it: if they firmly believe they have the will of the people on their side, and that close examination will demonstrate they're right, they should embrace it.
And it will be interesting to see whose political careers are ruined as a result.
So how do we decide which option wins?
We have a vote.
Right, hopefully you’ve thought this through a little more than that.
What, for instance, happens if we end up with a 33/33/34 split? We progress with an option that 66% of the country voted against in a referendum?
Comments
Yes Eamon x
How many are we talking about?
But I don't agree it's not your problem. It absolutely is. And it's the problem of everyone else who voted leave. Or who voted remain. Or who didn't, or couldn't vote. We are all impacted (although, of course, not equally). So we all have to do what is required to deliver what we think is least harmful. In some cases that's telling the politicians what we think they should do to carry out the decision we reached. And in some cases, it's changing our mind. I'm glad to see you're firmly in the latter category now.
However I don't agree the solution is my problem.
The solution is down to brexit voters, it should be easy for them because they say they knew what they were voting for.
How & why is the "solution" down to the leave voters ?? Please tell me how I, as an individual, can do anything about how the UK leaves rhe UK ??? Do you want me to meet Michel Barnier and negotiate ?? Do you want me to go to Ireland & build a border ?? I am genuinely interested how you expect or want me to "own it" & to come up with a solution.
thank you.
For me, the Government's complete inability (and probably unwillingness) to do anything to actually address the impasse over Stormont is the only thing that makes me consider the current fixation on their inability to manage Brexit with even a modicum of efficiency at all positively, because all that has been demonstrated here is how completely incapable the Government is of governing - no decision is so small, simple and straightforward that it does not utterly paralyse those supposed to lead the rest of us.
If there was a referendum offering all citizens eternal life, and Theresa May voted against the idea because she thought it couldn't be done, do the citizens blame her if it doesn't happen? With no regard as to why it hasn't happened?
We were the winning side in the referendum put to us.
Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote
We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe.
We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered)
We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU.
We don't need to do anything.
The problem will be when the government says you can have something, but it won't be brexit...the BINO option if you like, at it's most crass, issue blue passports and that's that. The winners will have won like that...sort of.
Of course if the government says, we can't do it, or at least can't 'regain control of the borders', or can only do a brexit that means we don't participate in EU formal political business, yet we are cool about adhering to the EU rules, what then?
I suppose the people then accept the government that they left to get on with it have done their best, and if the only change is on a par with blue passports, then the people will be happy.
Is it really about 'the government' acting in any executive way they like, and everybody accepts what they have done or achieved...and this present governmental set up is the hand the country has been dealt?
Surely the best thing is to remain and forget any of this even happened?
The public should then vote to remain or go with the alternative.
If this is done then at least there should be little doubt as to what the public have chosen.
The debate around and new vote of referendum will be horrendous.
It is extemely easy for us.
We were the winning side in the referendum put to us.
Over 600 MPs backed article 50 showing recognition of that vote
We have a democratic process long admired by many across the globe.
We have honoured our part in this process by casting our vote (many couldn't be bothered)
We expect the government to implement the process of leaving the EU.
We don't need to do anything.
No responsibility taken for your mistake/ deliberate and considered ideological position. Not your decision whether others hold you accountable though. The much maligned political class can be deselected, voted out, pressured to resign.
You can smugly sit in your bunker blaming everyone else but you and those like you that are obviously and overtly defensive about taking your share of any blame accruing. The worst of the self righteous smug Thatcherite legacy that fucked this country over.
I have huge reservations about another referendum or people's vote, but not because I accept the first result and want to get on with it.
My issue has been about the crippling price that will need to be paid for brexit, or if there is an unwillingness to pay the price (e.g.a heavily militarized land border in Ireland or turning Manston airport into the world's biggest lorry park) then it simply is not possible to do brexit at all because of the impossibility of the practical details.
Letting the government sort it out is like you fancy a cuppa, but you expect your dog to make the tea.
The three options would be absolutely distinct (remain; go with the government's preferred option of a deal; go with the hard brexiteers' option of a no-deal). The three options cover everything. And, with a single transferable vote, we end up with a clear winner.
Fair, properly explained, definitive. And no-one (even remainers) could complain at the result: we are better informed than we were and the implications of each vote will be far better understood.
Neither Remain or Leave voters should fear it: if they firmly believe they have the will of the people on their side, and that close examination will demonstrate they're right, they should embrace it.
And it will be interesting to see whose political careers are ruined as a result.
What, for instance, happens if we end up with a 33/33/34 split? We progress with an option that 66% of the country voted against in a referendum?