It's crying out for a party with Labour's exact policies, but a strong, charismatic leader, and shadow cabinet members who don't say dumb things in public. (So, the Greens!) Haha um I mean, maybe it's time for a Labour personnel rethink idk
It's crying out for a party with Labour's exact policies, but a strong, charismatic leader, and shadow cabinet members who don't say dumb things in public. (So, the Greens!) Haha um I mean, maybe it's time for a Labour personnel rethink idk
It's crying out for a party with Labour's exact policies, but a strong, charismatic leader, and shadow cabinet members who don't say dumb things in public. (So, the Greens!) Haha um I mean, maybe it's time for a Labour personnel rethink idk
Ah yes, here come the excuses, “misunderstood”, “Tory smears” etc.
Corbyn has needed to go for a long time, but the hard left know there’s no one to fill the void.
It's crying out for a party with Labour's exact policies, but a strong, charismatic leader, and shadow cabinet members who don't say dumb things in public. (So, the Greens!) Haha um I mean, maybe it's time for a Labour personnel rethink idk
Ah yes, here come the excuses, “misunderstood”, “Tory smears” etc.
Corbyn has needed to go for a long time, but the hard left know there’s no one to fill the void.
What? I didn't say either of those things. It's clear that Labour have a self-created image problem, and have run into a wall of sorts, when they should be crucifying the Tories over their many, many failings
Lib Dem’s are the biggest gainers by some way (and by 2017 election logic, have won the local elections), centrist party who support the EU. Think that proves the electorate want a pro remain centrist party.
Well then, you have your centrist party already. Vote for 'em!
I had a nice chat on the bus yesterday with a gentleman in a bright blue suit who wryly mentioned that in his job delivering newspapers to the BBC he'd found out that loads of them 'only read the Guardian'...he was off to campaign. Not for the Tories mind you - but for the Lib Dems. They've undoubtedly picked up a head of steam. A LOT of Remain support is now behind them.
Thing is, the Lib Dems have achieved this without having to do ANYTHING, image-wise. They're kind of invisible except for the most important thing: being staunchly pro-Europe.
Corbyn is Labour leader because he was clearly elected to that position twice by his party. May is Tory leader unelected to that position by her party.
Well then, you have your centrist party already. Vote for 'em!
I had a nice chat on the bus yesterday with a gentleman in a bright blue suit who wryly mentioned that in his job delivering newspapers to the BBC he'd found out that loads of them 'only read the Guardian'...he was off to campaign. Not for the Tories mind you - but for the Lib Dems. They've undoubtedly picked up a head of steam. A LOT of Remain support is now behind them.
Thing is, the Lib Dems have achieved this without having to do ANYTHING, image-wise. They're kind of invisible except for the most important thing: being staunchly pro-Europe.
Lib Dem’s brand is still toxic to people. A new centrist party could be a game changer, look at macron and LaRem
Well then, you have your centrist party already. Vote for 'em!
I had a nice chat on the bus yesterday with a gentleman in a bright blue suit who wryly mentioned that in his job delivering newspapers to the BBC he'd found out that loads of them 'only read the Guardian'...he was off to campaign. Not for the Tories mind you - but for the Lib Dems. They've undoubtedly picked up a head of steam. A LOT of Remain support is now behind them.
Thing is, the Lib Dems have achieved this without having to do ANYTHING, image-wise. They're kind of invisible except for the most important thing: being staunchly pro-Europe.
And they are the step parents of Tory austerity and other cruel ideology.
Corbyn is Labour leader because he was clearly elected to that position twice by his party. May is Tory leader unelected to that position by her party.
She made it to the final 1v1 and then the remaining candidate dropped out. So.. she sort of was. If there are any Tory members or MPs that wouldn’t have wanted her, she only has a minority government so quite easy to topple.
The lib dems campaign for another vote on Europe. Not pro Europe enough for me. Then there is the betrayal of their tuition fee pledge. Better than the fundamentally selfish Tories though, but not by much.
Well then, you have your centrist party already. Vote for 'em!
I had a nice chat on the bus yesterday with a gentleman in a bright blue suit who wryly mentioned that in his job delivering newspapers to the BBC he'd found out that loads of them 'only read the Guardian'...he was off to campaign. Not for the Tories mind you - but for the Lib Dems. They've undoubtedly picked up a head of steam. A LOT of Remain support is now behind them.
Thing is, the Lib Dems have achieved this without having to do ANYTHING, image-wise. They're kind of invisible except for the most important thing: being staunchly pro-Europe.
Lib Dem’s brand is still toxic to people. A new centrist party could be a game changer, look at macron and LaRem
Agree, needs to be a more radical change capturing centrist Labour and Tory MPs. It will be difficult to get off the ground as many Labour MPs in particular do not want to leave the party but cannot get behind Corbyn, and some of his policies.
All the time the Tories and Labour are polarising themselves there is a void in British politics for a new centrist party to fill. It will happen because there is an electorate demand for it. When it happens, what it looks like and how effective it will be is anybody's guess.
One very prosaic feature of a national political party is infrastructure. Offices, databases, local knowledge and contacts and so on. For UKIP when things dip (on in their case collapse) there simply is no network to call back on lick wounds and go again. The survival of the Liberals in their wilderness times was because of their network, and for Labour certainly so. Corbyn holds the keys to the Labour network, for a new party to match that it will take some doing.
I wouldn't be too disheartened if I was a Labour strategist. The government have too many headwinds to kick on and Labour will continue to benefit from changing demographics. That said I don't see a future Labour government having many answers beyond getting elected (Hollande in France springs to mind) so what comes after both the Conservatives and Labour failing will be interesting.
If there is a slight resurgence of the Lib Dem’s over the next year or so it can only help the Tories. I doubt the switch from blue to Yellow will be as significant as red to yellow.
Don’t need to change nothing in bexley as they have held thankfully, saw sadiq Khan last night at Clapham junction was giving an interview in the car park
I think a centrist party would have to be born from centrist politicians from all sides publicly falling out with their leadership over matters of policy and quite possibly ethics. I don't believe a new party springing up from nowhere with people we've never heard of (or some Nobby celebrity like Robert kilroy silk) will get any traction
If there is a slight resurgence of the Lib Dem’s over the next year or so it can only help the Tories. I doubt the switch from blue to Yellow will be as significant as red to yellow.
This is my fear. With our first past the post system, we end up with the centrist vote split and the Tories win seats by default. SDP and the rise of Thatcher springs to mind.
It's where those Tory Cameron 15-Remain 16 votes went that is interesting, and they aren't going to Labour, seem to be going to safe houses like the Lib Dems and Greens, and not making the big jump to Labour.
And there is nothing to suggest the Labour Party cares. They're clinging on to a bit that its only the old who vote in Council elections, which is a bit stupid.
While it seems true when commenting on most politicians and parties that they're all terrible, the gap between Labour and Tory is pretty wide. It seemed to be fine margins between Miliband and Cameron and Clegg but now you look at May and Rees Mogg against Corbyn and Dennis Skinner and it feels like there is a difference. Of course loads of politicians occupy a similar strata but less so at the moment. Part of the reason is because brexit has divided the country so much, and not exactly on party lines. I am old, but for the time I have left I will never ever be reconciled to brexiters and Tories, they have won the county, but the price they must pay is the realisation that they have won just over half of the country. Those winners need to look after the half they have won, they can kid themselves the whole country is on the side of the winners if they like, but I think they are wrong. The division means that there is a massive number that will not 'get behind' their country, but have a abandoned political and emotional investment in the UK whilst being trapped here.
Seth, in every election around half the population loses
I suppose my main focus is the eternity of brexit, and at my age I can't see ever being a part of this country because the establishment eternally rules. Of course most elections are close to 50-50, but there are chances to go round again, but my experience is that my personal sense of alienation in the country of my birth will never now dissipate. Mainly due to the madness of brexit. Sadly at my darkest, my perception is that the evil selfish racists have won the country forever, and my inclination is to try to be as subversive and awkward as I can be in the time I have left. It will make no difference anyway, brexiters and Tories will have their boots on my neck forever and I can't stop them
The Tories May be in power now, might be for a couple more years, might be for another 7. Who knows, but it won’t be forever.
In my view there’s roughly a third of the country who will vote red regardless and a similar number who would only vote blue so there’s only another third up for grabs. That may change over time as the older generation leave us and a younger generation comes through or if one party moves to garner the floating vote. Labour have made strides in that but think it will take a new Leader and leadership team and a softer left approach to really make it happen. I think we are a way away from that though right now as Corbyn is on a mission to change the party for a long time and that change doesn't currently seem to be enough to out do the Tories and/or take a majority.
I walked to the polling station last night with my wife and one of her friends. Her friend, mid 40’s will only ever vote Labour in any election where they stand, the reason is simply her father was a miner who then moved to steel works in Sheffield and therefore she will always vote against blue, she admits she has no interest in what either party has to say, for her it's simple, vote against blue to keep them out which means currently voting red. I suspect there is a section/age group who will predominantly only vote against labour after living through the bad times with them.
Not all brexiters or Tories are evil, selfish or racist, and even those that are have not won the country now or forever.
The local elections are quite interesting, although seats are moving, overall councils aren't really with both Labour & lib dems taking 1 so far from the tories and the tories taking 3 from previously no overall control but losing 1 (Labour 2) to no overall control. I thought there would be more of a shift considering since the last round we've had 2 generals and the brexit vote.
However, anyone that votes in the local council elections and use Brexit as a reason to vote for a party should lose their vote.
What utter nonsense! I suppose you think the people in north London who based their vote purely on the perception of anti-semitism in the Labour Party should lose their vote as well?
I think a centrist party would have to be born from centrist politicians from all sides publicly falling out with their leadership over matters of policy and quite possibly ethics. I don't believe a new party springing up from nowhere with people we've never heard of (or some Nobby celebrity like Robert kilroy silk) will get any traction
The Cooperative party to break away from labour and join forces with disgruntled Labour, Tory etc politicians? Think its around 40 current MP's are from the Labour & Co-operative coalition.
However, anyone that votes in the local council elections and use Brexit as a reason to vote for a party should lose their vote.
People talk about this or that being democratic or undemocratic as if it is a clear and fixed concept. Yet here we have yet another take on what democracy might be. I think it is a rubbish idea mind you, but it serves as a reminder to the sovereignty and democracy sages that when they think they know the definitive answer, actually they know Jack chite.
Comments
It's crying out for a party with Labour's exact policies, but a strong, charismatic leader, and shadow cabinet members who don't say dumb things in public. (So, the Greens!) Haha um I mean, maybe it's time for a Labour personnel rethink idk
Corbyn has needed to go for a long time, but the hard left know there’s no one to fill the void.
I had a nice chat on the bus yesterday with a gentleman in a bright blue suit who wryly mentioned that in his job delivering newspapers to the BBC he'd found out that loads of them 'only read the Guardian'...he was off to campaign. Not for the Tories mind you - but for the Lib Dems. They've undoubtedly picked up a head of steam. A LOT of Remain support is now behind them.
Thing is, the Lib Dems have achieved this without having to do ANYTHING, image-wise. They're kind of invisible except for the most important thing: being staunchly pro-Europe.
May is Tory leader unelected to that position by her party.
Not pro Europe enough for me.
Then there is the betrayal of their tuition fee pledge.
Better than the fundamentally selfish Tories though, but not by much.
All the time the Tories and Labour are polarising themselves there is a void in British politics for a new centrist party to fill. It will happen because there is an electorate demand for it. When it happens, what it looks like and how effective it will be is anybody's guess.
For UKIP when things dip (on in their case collapse) there simply is no network to call back on lick wounds and go again. The survival of the Liberals in their wilderness times was because of their network, and for Labour certainly so.
Corbyn holds the keys to the Labour network, for a new party to match that it will take some doing.
It's where those Tory Cameron 15-Remain 16 votes went that is interesting, and they aren't going to Labour, seem to be going to safe houses like the Lib Dems and Greens, and not making the big jump to Labour.
And there is nothing to suggest the Labour Party cares. They're clinging on to a bit that its only the old who vote in Council elections, which is a bit stupid.
But the Tories are UKIP now, in all but name.
BTW, fundamentally agree with every word here.
It seemed to be fine margins between Miliband and Cameron and Clegg but now you look at May and Rees Mogg against Corbyn and Dennis Skinner and it feels like there is a difference.
Of course loads of politicians occupy a similar strata but less so at the moment.
Part of the reason is because brexit has divided the country so much, and not exactly on party lines. I am old, but for the time I have left I will never ever be reconciled to brexiters and Tories, they have won the county, but the price they must pay is the realisation that they have won just over half of the country.
Those winners need to look after the half they have won, they can kid themselves the whole country is on the side of the winners if they like, but I think they are wrong.
The division means that there is a massive number that will not 'get behind' their country, but have a abandoned political and emotional investment in the UK whilst being trapped here.
Of course most elections are close to 50-50, but there are chances to go round again, but my experience is that my personal sense of alienation in the country of my birth will never now dissipate. Mainly due to the madness of brexit.
Sadly at my darkest, my perception is that the evil selfish racists have won the country forever, and my inclination is to try to be as subversive and awkward as I can be in the time I have left.
It will make no difference anyway, brexiters and Tories will have their boots on my neck forever and I can't stop them
In my view there’s roughly a third of the country who will vote red regardless and a similar number who would only vote blue so there’s only another third up for grabs. That may change over time as the older generation leave us and a younger generation comes through or if one party moves to garner the floating vote. Labour have made strides in that but think it will take a new Leader and leadership team and a softer left approach to really make it happen. I think we are a way away from that though right now as Corbyn is on a mission to change the party for a long time and that change doesn't currently seem to be enough to out do the Tories and/or take a majority.
I walked to the polling station last night with my wife and one of her friends. Her friend, mid 40’s will only ever vote Labour in any election where they stand, the reason is simply her father was a miner who then moved to steel works in Sheffield and therefore she will always vote against blue, she admits she has no interest in what either party has to say, for her it's simple, vote against blue to keep them out which means currently voting red. I suspect there is a section/age group who will predominantly only vote against labour after living through the bad times with them.
Not all brexiters or Tories are evil, selfish or racist, and even those that are have not won the country now or forever.
The local elections are quite interesting, although seats are moving, overall councils aren't really with both Labour & lib dems taking 1 so far from the tories and the tories taking 3 from previously no overall control but losing 1 (Labour 2) to no overall control. I thought there would be more of a shift considering since the last round we've had 2 generals and the brexit vote.
Yet here we have yet another take on what democracy might be.
I think it is a rubbish idea mind you, but it serves as a reminder to the sovereignty and democracy sages that when they think they know the definitive answer, actually they know Jack chite.