Are the Aussies still interested or not? And if they are, what’s the hold up?
They do not have the funds to buy us from RD, they are scrabbling around trying to get mugs investors to put some money in the pot.
All this bollocks that the EFL are holding up the deal is laughable.
And you have viability of their accounts do you?
No, but Muir is as rich, if not richer than RD and if he wanted to dip into his own pocket I am sure it would be a done deal by now. As reported on here one of the reasons the EFL had concerns with the deal was due to the "sheer amount of investors involved"
In fairness to Duchatalet, he obviously hasn't yet decided how much money he wants to lose.
Should he lose money by selling the club to the only consortium that has any possibility of buying the club, but at a price that gives him a big loss?
Or should he keep the club, complete a fire sale of several players and end up with a club worth much, much less than the only consortium would be willing to pay?
As soon as he makes his mind up how much money he wants to lose, we should have an idea as to when or either the takeover goes ahead.
He really is a shrewd businessman.
But in the buyers eyes the sale makes the club worth even less - the gap in valuations remains the same.
In fairness to Duchatalet, he obviously hasn't yet decided how much money he wants to lose.
Should he lose money by selling the club to the only consortium that has any possibility of buying the club, but at a price that gives him a big loss?
Or should he keep the club, complete a fire sale of several players and end up with a club worth much, much less than the only consortium would be willing to pay?
As soon as he makes his mind up how much money he wants to lose, we should have an idea as to when or either the takeover goes ahead.
He really is a shrewd businessman.
I would like to challenge a couple of things in @chizz's assessment purely from my own observations and what is known about RD from his erratic statements and behaviour.
Firstly, The belief that RD is a shrewd businessman. At first glance there can be no argument here. RD has proven himself to be highly successful in operating a global company which has brought him significant wealth. Not so shrewd though, is to attempt to apply a successful business model in one sphere to the volatile area of football club ownership, morseso in another country, and expect the returns to be the same (or at least not loss making) especially if you are going to spend only 1.5% of your time on the venture.
But saying that RD is a shrewd businessman based only on the assumption that RD bought Charlton solely to make money is flawed IMO. The only way he could achieve that would be promotion to the Prem whereas we know from Meire, when she gave the game away in Dublin, that the agenda at the outset was to create a player farm for the Prem at Charlton whilst at the same time promoting the other part of the Duchatelet vision not articulated in Dublin but which nevertheless was revealed in snippets from RD fairly early on.
This was essentially a social experiment on a grand scale which was intended to re-model fan behaviour and mind-set. The emphasis was put on match day experience with the game itself only one element, a focal point of course, of a much more encompassing social pastime in which you partook of a meal, met up with friends, and ideally stayed at the ground after the game enjoying a drink and a dance preferably with opposing fans (RD is on record as saying that he wanted fans to be more like Rugby fans and indeed Meire talked openly about trying to recruit fans from the Harlequins heartlands of SW London). These are hardly the words and actions of a shrewd businessman - more like those of a self-appointed visionary who nevertheless sees himself in his own words as a latter-day Alan Turing - A hero spurned by those those too stupid to understand what he is trying to achieve for their own benefit.
Charlton are not owned by a shrewd businessman IMO- they are owned by a very wealthy, arrogant and egocentric man who, if he ran a country would be described as a despot.
Chizz also believes that it is understandable for RD to take as much time as he likes in deciding how much money he wants to lose. This cannot possibly hold up as an argument especially if RD is keen to sell asap. He has already had a year or thereabouts to 'think' about this. All the indications are that there are other issues on the agenda rather than price but it is difficult to speculate with a man as complex and unyielding as RD. However, what is troubling is that despite giving up his footballing interests at STVV he is still holding on to Alcorcon I believe. So, I'm not sure that he is really ready to give up the power which he now holds at Charlton and I referred to the reasons why in a previous posting.
Finally, no-one this side of the channel seems to have the ear of Duchatelet. If whatever consortia are out there are ultimately doomed to failure then the only resort might be to fund some kind of approach to the EFL. They cannot simply sit on their hands and watch on, mutely whilst this debacle carries on seemingly without resolution.
Thats if this is a fire sale aprox £1.8 mil -------six weeks of costs------- after that who knows ? Sale of the car park area ? but the 4th level of football looks certain ,that's if CAFC as we know it will exist.
In fairness to Duchatalet, he obviously hasn't yet decided how much money he wants to lose.
Should he lose money by selling the club to the only consortium that has any possibility of buying the club, but at a price that gives him a big loss?
Or should he keep the club, complete a fire sale of several players and end up with a club worth much, much less than the only consortium would be willing to pay?
As soon as he makes his mind up how much money he wants to lose, we should have an idea as to when or either the takeover goes ahead.
He really is a shrewd businessman.
I would like to challenge a couple of things in @chizz's assessment purely from my own observations and what is known about RD from his erratic statements and behaviour.
Firstly, The belief that RD is a shrewd businessman. At first glance there can be no argument here. RD has proven himself to be highly successful in operating a global company which has brought him significant wealth. Not so shrewd though, is to attempt to apply a successful business model in one sphere to the volatile area of football club ownership, morseso in another country, and expect the returns to be the same (or at least not loss making) especially if you are going to spend only 1.5% of your time on the venture.
But saying that RD is a shrewd businessman based only on the assumption that RD bought Charlton solely to make money is flawed IMO. The only way he could achieve that would be promotion to the Prem whereas we know from Meire, when she gave the game away in Dublin, that the agenda at the outset was to create a player farm for the Prem at Charlton whilst at the same time promoting the other part of the Duchatelet vision not articulated in Dublin but which nevertheless was revealed in snippets from RD fairly early on.
This was essentially a social experiment on a grand scale which was intended to re-model fan behaviour and mind-set. The emphasis was put on match day experience with the game itself only one element, a focal point of course, of a much more encompassing social pastime in which you partook of a meal, met up with friends, and ideally stayed at the ground after the game enjoying a drink and a dance preferably with opposing fans (RD is on record as saying that he wanted fans to be more like Rugby fans and indeed Meire talked openly about trying to recruit fans from the Harlequins heartlands of SW London). These are hardly the words and actions of a shrewd businessman - more like those of a self-appointed visionary who nevertheless sees himself in his own words as a latter-day Alan Turing - A hero spurned by those those too stupid to understand what he is trying to achieve for their own benefit.
Charlton are not owned by a shrewd businessman IMO- they are owned by a very wealthy, arrogant and egocentric man who, if he ran a country would be described as a despot.
Chizz also believes that it is understandable for RD to take as much time as he likes in deciding how much money he wants to lose. This cannot possibly hold up as an argument especially if RD is keen to sell asap. He has already had a year or thereabouts to 'think' about this. All the indications are that there are other issues on the agenda rather than price but it is difficult to speculate with a man as complex and unyielding as RD. However, what is troubling is that despite giving up his footballing interests at STVV he is still holding on to Alcorcon I believe. So, I'm not sure that he is really ready to give up the power which he now holds at Charlton and I referred to the reasons why in a previous posting.
Finally, no-one this side of the channel seems to have the ear of Duchatelet. If whatever consortia are out there are ultimately doomed to failure then the only resort might be to fund some kind of approach to the EFL. They cannot simply sit on their hands and watch on, mutely whilst this debacle carries on seemingly without resolution.
why not? RD passed their fit and proper person test after all. Is there a requirement to have a CEO, a CFO, even a permanent manager?
RD is not going to liquidate the club, we can't go into admiration because he is the only creditor.
We have 3 assets of real value, the valley, sparrows Lane and the golden share. If he isn't going to accept circa £40 million he will have to be confident he can sell the valley and training ground for more than 7 million more.
The golden share is worthless with out a club, its not like he can sell it to Bromley.
Can anyone see the valley and sparrows Lane being worth nearly £50 million with out planning permission?
Nope me neither. The only way he can get any money back is by selling a football league clubs as a a going concern and I am sure he knows it. He can't be that stupid, can he..........
Thats if this is a fire sale aprox £1.8 mil -------six weeks of costs------- after that who knows ? Sale of the car park area ? but the 4th level of football looks certain ,that's if CAFC as we know it will exist.
Fosu was mentioned at 2m but cant see we would get that to be fair.
its not just the incoming cash he is concerned about its reducing wages and therefore costs that he has to pay.
Not sure what the EFL can do.An owner is in negotiations to sell.An owner in a third level club is selling players to cover costs.An owner is running his business without the normal management structure.
Cawley saying Charlton refuting any claims of a fire sale, all outgoings sanctioned by Bowyer and working on incomings. Can't link the tweets from mobile.
I’m going to The Valley tomorrow to recover the bronze bust of Jimmy Seed that sits outside the boardroom (when it’s supposed to be sited inside the main entrance where it can be seen by fans).
The family loaned it to the club in happier times, but while this regime seems intent on wrecking the club the bust can come home, and I’ll return it once new owners are in place. It’s a small gesture, but one that I hope makes a point.
I’m aiming for midday.
So what's changed then since Sunday when you told us all on here that your Australian buddy told you by text
"We're still working away at it mate. Be patient my friend"
48 hours is not very patient!
It's getting worse by the day, and I've had enough of it.
We all know that, but what's changed your tune in the last 48 hours then? Sunday, be patient, I take that as good news. Today, I've had enough.
If nothing's changed in the last 48 hours, you could have taken away that bust when we were all protesting in the car park and in the ground, so why now?
I haven't heard anything from the Aussies if that's what you're wondering.
Things have changed in the last 48 hours. Konsa was sold a few weeks ago, which looked ominous, but we thought he was going anyway. But now there's a fire-sale, and it looks like Duchatelet has gone into meltdown. It's clear he doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of him, and there can't be any protests because there aren't any matches on, so I just though I'd contribute what I can.
No one has been sold since your be patient comment, so nothing has changed then.
Your timing is odd
SLP article, and Lennon sale?
Which all have not happened yet. Not saying they won't but you told us all on Sunday to be patient and now your gone the other direction by taking back the bust. He won't care what you do and without any press/media informed what do you get out of it!
Are you happy with the direction the club is heading in? I'm not, and while there's nothing I can do to stop it, I can at least make a gesture.
Cawley saying Charlton refuting any claims of a fire sale, all outgoings sanctioned by Bowyer and working on incomings. Can't link the tweets from mobile.
Fosu and Bauer being sold is a good thing for the squad? Bollocks
I’m going to The Valley tomorrow to recover the bronze bust of Jimmy Seed that sits outside the boardroom (when it’s supposed to be sited inside the main entrance where it can be seen by fans).
The family loaned it to the club in happier times, but while this regime seems intent on wrecking the club the bust can come home, and I’ll return it once new owners are in place. It’s a small gesture, but one that I hope makes a point.
I’m aiming for midday.
Hopefully there's a photographer there at the very least? Assume those with press contacts are all over it...;)
Just want the bust back. Not phoning press.
Just a thought. It’s obvious that you and your family are not seeking publicity when reclaiming the bust so on that basis would the museum be a safe and appropriate haven for Jimmy in hopefully the short term ?
Yes it would, but it might dilute the message.
I'm aiming to go down at 12 o'clock tomorrow, so that I can be home in plenty of time for the kids coming back from school.
If there is no one there to see the reclamation I’m not sure you. Are sending any message ?
I'm hopefully sending a message, but you can't make the press turn up, they either do or they don't.
True.
But for the London and/or local press who are likely to cover it you could make it easier for them by arranging to have a picture taken yourself (with the bust) and then issue that to the London & locals with a suitably worded statement from you?
Cawley saying Charlton refuting any claims of a fire sale, all outgoings sanctioned by Bowyer and working on incomings. Can't link the tweets from mobile.
Fosu and Bauer being sold is a good thing for the squad? Bollocks
The tweet actually says the price tags we’ve put on Bauer and Fosu means neither will be moving on. Bowyer just happy for the dead wood to be moved on.
I’m going to The Valley tomorrow to recover the bronze bust of Jimmy Seed that sits outside the boardroom (when it’s supposed to be sited inside the main entrance where it can be seen by fans).
The family loaned it to the club in happier times, but while this regime seems intent on wrecking the club the bust can come home, and I’ll return it once new owners are in place. It’s a small gesture, but one that I hope makes a point.
I’m aiming for midday.
Hopefully there's a photographer there at the very least? Assume those with press contacts are all over it...;)
Just want the bust back. Not phoning press.
Just a thought. It’s obvious that you and your family are not seeking publicity when reclaiming the bust so on that basis would the museum be a safe and appropriate haven for Jimmy in hopefully the short term ?
Yes it would, but it might dilute the message.
I'm aiming to go down at 12 o'clock tomorrow, so that I can be home in plenty of time for the kids coming back from school.
Well if you would just read them, you would think it sounds sensible. However it was Cawley who sent us all into meltdown just a few hours earlier with his report.
So what to make of that, @Airman Brown ? (As the person on here who best understands the local press.)
Amidst all this crap, let’s spare a thought for the players and staff at Charlton at present.
Players that aren’t actively being hawked around must be desperate to leave also.
Most of the staff - obviously with notable exceptions - don’t have any responsibility for the clusterfuck and will be in fear of redundancy at any time.
I’m going to The Valley tomorrow to recover the bronze bust of Jimmy Seed that sits outside the boardroom (when it’s supposed to be sited inside the main entrance where it can be seen by fans).
The family loaned it to the club in happier times, but while this regime seems intent on wrecking the club the bust can come home, and I’ll return it once new owners are in place. It’s a small gesture, but one that I hope makes a point.
I’m aiming for midday.
So what's changed then since Sunday when you told us all on here that your Australian buddy told you by text
"We're still working away at it mate. Be patient my friend"
48 hours is not very patient!
It's getting worse by the day, and I've had enough of it.
We all know that, but what's changed your tune in the last 48 hours then? Sunday, be patient, I take that as good news. Today, I've had enough.
If nothing's changed in the last 48 hours, you could have taken away that bust when we were all protesting in the car park and in the ground, so why now?
I haven't heard anything from the Aussies if that's what you're wondering.
Things have changed in the last 48 hours. Konsa was sold a few weeks ago, which looked ominous, but we thought he was going anyway. But now there's a fire-sale, and it looks like Duchatelet has gone into meltdown. It's clear he doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of him, and there can't be any protests because there aren't any matches on, so I just though I'd contribute what I can.
No one has been sold since your be patient comment, so nothing has changed then.
Your timing is odd
SLP article, and Lennon sale?
Which all have not happened yet. Not saying they won't but you told us all on Sunday to be patient and now your gone the other direction by taking back the bust. He won't care what you do and without any press/media informed what do you get out of it!
Are you happy with the direction the club is heading in? I'm not, and while there's nothing I can do to stop it, I can at least make a gesture.
Stupid question there, James. You do what you want, but don't go telling us all to be patient and then decided on this.
Cawley saying Charlton refuting any claims of a fire sale, all outgoings sanctioned by Bowyer and working on incomings. Can't link the tweets from mobile.
Fosu and Bauer being sold is a good thing for the squad? Bollocks
Agreed. If the club were letting it be known that Fosu and Aribo are for sale, it seems odd that they would turn round and say it's fine, Bowyer has sanctioned their sale? That just doesn't sound likely. I've said for some time that incoming transfers might be waiting for new owners to sign off, but the longer this goes on the less likely that seems. Which decent players would want to sign for a club who's future is seemingly so uncertain?
Then we accept that Lee Bowyer is complicit with a “fire sale”. No manager or caretaker for that matter would be happy that his squad is decimated without adequate replacements. If any of Bauer, Fosu or Aribo are sold then it’s only because Bowyer has a replacement lined up. We know given the situation that’s unlikely so in this particular instance I’m prepared to believe what Cawley has written.
To think Richard Murray showed Curbs the door because he wouldn't sign long term and this would impact the the ability to make signings! How would Mr Murray explain today's situation to any potential incomers?
I’m going to The Valley tomorrow to recover the bronze bust of Jimmy Seed that sits outside the boardroom (when it’s supposed to be sited inside the main entrance where it can be seen by fans).
The family loaned it to the club in happier times, but while this regime seems intent on wrecking the club the bust can come home, and I’ll return it once new owners are in place. It’s a small gesture, but one that I hope makes a point.
I’m aiming for midday.
So what's changed then since Sunday when you told us all on here that your Australian buddy told you by text
"We're still working away at it mate. Be patient my friend"
48 hours is not very patient!
It's getting worse by the day, and I've had enough of it.
We all know that, but what's changed your tune in the last 48 hours then? Sunday, be patient, I take that as good news. Today, I've had enough.
If nothing's changed in the last 48 hours, you could have taken away that bust when we were all protesting in the car park and in the ground, so why now?
I haven't heard anything from the Aussies if that's what you're wondering.
Things have changed in the last 48 hours. Konsa was sold a few weeks ago, which looked ominous, but we thought he was going anyway. But now there's a fire-sale, and it looks like Duchatelet has gone into meltdown. It's clear he doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of him, and there can't be any protests because there aren't any matches on, so I just though I'd contribute what I can.
No one has been sold since your be patient comment, so nothing has changed then.
Your timing is odd
SLP article, and Lennon sale?
Which all have not happened yet. Not saying they won't but you told us all on Sunday to be patient and now your gone the other direction by taking back the bust. He won't care what you do and without any press/media informed what do you get out of it!
Are you happy with the direction the club is heading in? I'm not, and while there's nothing I can do to stop it, I can at least make a gesture.
Stupid question there, James. You do what you want, but don't go telling us all to be patient and then decided on this.
Bit OTT mate, I wasn't telling anyone to be patient was I? That was the Aussies.
Sorry if I implied you were happy with the direction the club is heading in though, I didn't mean it that way.
But to me it seems things can't get much worse. The statements from Cawley today were the straw that broke the camels back if you like.
Comments
Firstly, The belief that RD is a shrewd businessman.
At first glance there can be no argument here. RD has proven himself to be highly successful in operating a global company which has brought him significant wealth. Not so shrewd though, is to attempt to apply a successful business model in one sphere to the volatile area of football club ownership, morseso in another country, and expect the returns to be the same (or at least not loss making) especially if you are going to spend only 1.5% of your time on the venture.
But saying that RD is a shrewd businessman based only on the assumption that RD bought Charlton solely to make money is flawed IMO. The only way he could achieve that would be promotion to the Prem whereas we know from Meire, when she gave the game away in Dublin, that the agenda at the outset was to create a player farm for the Prem at Charlton whilst at the same time promoting the other part of the Duchatelet vision not articulated in Dublin but which nevertheless was revealed in snippets from RD fairly early on.
This was essentially a social experiment on a grand scale which was intended to re-model fan behaviour and mind-set. The emphasis was put on match day experience with the game itself only one element, a focal point of course, of a much more encompassing social pastime in which you partook of a meal, met up with friends, and ideally stayed at the ground after the game enjoying a drink and a dance preferably with opposing fans (RD is on record as saying that he wanted fans to be more like Rugby fans and indeed Meire talked openly about trying to recruit fans from the Harlequins heartlands of SW London). These are hardly the words and actions of a shrewd businessman - more like those of a self-appointed visionary who nevertheless sees himself in his own words as a latter-day Alan Turing - A hero spurned by those those too stupid to understand what he is trying to achieve for their own benefit.
Charlton are not owned by a shrewd businessman IMO- they are owned by a very wealthy, arrogant and egocentric man who, if he ran a country would be described as a despot.
Chizz also believes that it is understandable for RD to take as much time as he likes in deciding how much money he wants to lose. This cannot possibly hold up as an argument especially if RD is keen to sell asap. He has already had a year or thereabouts to 'think' about this. All the indications are that there are other issues on the agenda rather than price but it is difficult to speculate with a man as complex and unyielding as RD. However, what is troubling is that despite giving up his footballing interests at STVV he is still holding on to Alcorcon I believe. So, I'm not sure that he is really ready to give up the power which he now holds at Charlton and I referred to the reasons why in a previous posting.
Finally, no-one this side of the channel seems to have the ear of Duchatelet. If whatever consortia are out there are ultimately doomed to failure then the only resort might be to fund some kind of approach to the EFL. They cannot simply sit on their hands and watch on, mutely whilst this debacle carries on seemingly without resolution.
Mag=£300K
Fosu=£500K
Aribo=£300k
Marshall=£100k
Lennon£100k
Thats if this is a fire sale aprox £1.8 mil -------six weeks of costs------- after that who knows ? Sale of the car park area ? but the 4th level of football looks certain ,that's if CAFC as we know it will exist.
We have 3 assets of real value, the valley, sparrows Lane and the golden share. If he isn't going to accept circa £40 million he will have to be confident he can sell the valley and training ground for more than 7 million more.
The golden share is worthless with out a club, its not like he can sell it to Bromley.
Can anyone see the valley and sparrows Lane being worth nearly £50 million with out planning permission?
Nope me neither. The only way he can get any money back is by selling a football league clubs as a a going concern and I am sure he knows it. He can't be that stupid, can he..........
its not just the incoming cash he is concerned about its reducing wages and therefore costs that he has to pay.
But for the London and/or local press who are likely to cover it you could make it easier for them by arranging to have a picture taken yourself (with the bust) and then issue that to the London & locals with a suitably worded statement from you?
Bowyer just happy for the dead wood to be moved on.
So what to make of that, @Airman Brown ? (As the person on here who best understands the local press.)
Players that aren’t actively being hawked around must be desperate to leave also.
Most of the staff - obviously with notable exceptions - don’t have any responsibility for the clusterfuck and will be in fear of redundancy at any time.
It’s everyone's nightmare.
I've said for some time that incoming transfers might be waiting for new owners to sign off, but the longer this goes on the less likely that seems. Which decent players would want to sign for a club who's future is seemingly so uncertain?
How would Mr Murray explain today's situation to any potential incomers?
Sorry if I implied you were happy with the direction the club is heading in though, I didn't mean it that way.
But to me it seems things can't get much worse. The statements from Cawley today were the straw that broke the camels back if you like.