So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
One of the documents the EFL received was a copy of the purchase agreement, as I understand it. It seems clear, even from LDT, that no one else has ever reached that point, so I am not sure why they would have submitted papers to the EFL.
Harvey did make clear that it frequently happened that people submit to the ODT (and in many cases pass it) but never subsequently take up positions or complete transactions. To take the ODT they need to be put forward by a member club. I’d have thought the lack of a sale agreement with other parties was more meaningful, tbh. I don’t see how they would get to the EFL stage without it.
In your opinion Airman, do the other parties even exist?
Even if they did exist they don’t now.....one must reasonably assume that’s because of the asking price. We are informed by Goldfingers spokesman that there are/were five other interested parties, all of whom have seemingly walked. There can only be one reason and one reason only why they have ‘all’ walked........the asking price. This is the reason why I personally think that he is in no hurry whatsoever to sell until the asking price (or close to it) is offered......it’s making the club virtually unsaleable. There has to be an underlying reason or reasons why this is.....until that is known, we are left dealing with a person who has a number of very very odd characteristics. He has never for one moment explained himself and his atrocious tenure of ownership. In my opinion he actually seems to be enjoying fucking us and the EFL around. Don’t try applying logic to this guy.............you’re just wasting your time, sad to say he’s a bit of a nutter on the quiet.
Our eccentric owner is obviously a factor. While many dream of and crave his level of wealth, it can create a bubble where they are out of touch with reality, and those in their closest circle don't dare to shatter the illusion often for personal gain. So as well as the rich - Rolund/Katrien, famous actors/pop stars also suffer - Michael Jackson/Conrad Murray, Elvis and his entourage, it's all like the Emperor's Clothes.
This was posted on the CARD/EFL thread but might have been better here.
@Covered End said he thought the last meeting with LdT, the Aussies and the Americans (conference call) was an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. I replied as below:
It would seem odd, on the face of it, if the meeting was just an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. That’d be pretty embarrassing for them.
You’d think it was more likely to have be a conference call where the (potential?) American backers could ask questions of LdT?
If it really was a fund raising exercise held in front of Lieven, it’d be a sign of how hard it is find anyone interested in buying us at the price/terms available. It’d be very concerning.
So I’m hoping it was a q & a session where, if the yanks had their questions answered satisfactorily, their funds might be ‘unlocked’
Fingers crossed.
As previously discussed, it’s worrying that no other bidder has even got to the stage the Aussies have. What is putting everyone off?
I'd agree your interpretation is more than plausable. If the Americans liked the answers from LDT & the Aussies, then they would invest (unlock the money).
An Australian consortium was linked with Charlton back in April 2017, now nearly two years on there are suggestions they can't find the project? Not enthusiastic about this group of pretenders one bit.
I think price not being important means he believes he has plenty of interest at the price he wants
"Interest" is such an ambiguous term.
Sorry, what do you mean?
Could be a polite enquiry, followed by "I'll let you know". Could be a Russian oligarch with millions of dirty money to launder. Could be a serious buyer waiting for Roland to drop his price. Not being ITK, who knows?
This was posted on the CARD/EFL thread but might have been better here.
@Covered End said he thought the last meeting with LdT, the Aussies and the Americans (conference call) was an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. I replied as below:
It would seem odd, on the face of it, if the meeting was just an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. That’d be pretty embarrassing for them.
You’d think it was more likely to have be a conference call where the (potential?) American backers could ask questions of LdT?
If it really was a fund raising exercise held in front of Lieven, it’d be a sign of how hard it is find anyone interested in buying us at the price/terms available. It’d be very concerning.
So I’m hoping it was a q & a session where, if the yanks had their questions answered satisfactorily, their funds might be ‘unlocked’
Fingers crossed.
As previously discussed, it’s worrying that no other bidder has even got to the stage the Aussies have. What is putting everyone off?
Just taking the point you raise about no other bidder, hasn't the suggestion been made that Duchatelet has deliberately put off other potential buyers by quoting a ridiculously inflated price? No idea if there is any truth in this, but if there is I would hate to think that some potential moneybags is being sacrificed at the expense of a stubborn attachment to possibly flawed outfit.
An Australian consortium was linked with Charlton back in April 2017, now nearly two years on there are suggestions they can't find the project? Not enthusiastic about this group of pretenders one bit.
This was posted on the CARD/EFL thread but might have been better here.
@Covered End said he thought the last meeting with LdT, the Aussies and the Americans (conference call) was an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. I replied as below:
It would seem odd, on the face of it, if the meeting was just an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. That’d be pretty embarrassing for them.
You’d think it was more likely to have be a conference call where the (potential?) American backers could ask questions of LdT?
If it really was a fund raising exercise held in front of Lieven, it’d be a sign of how hard it is find anyone interested in buying us at the price/terms available. It’d be very concerning.
So I’m hoping it was a q & a session where, if the yanks had their questions answered satisfactorily, their funds might be ‘unlocked’
Fingers crossed.
As previously discussed, it’s worrying that no other bidder has even got to the stage the Aussies have. What is putting everyone off?
Just taking the point you raise about no other bidder, hasn't the suggestion been made that Duchatelet has deliberately put off other potential buyers by quoting a ridiculously inflated price? No idea if there is any truth in this, but if there is I would hate to think that some potential moneybags is being sacrificed at the expense of a stubborn attachment to possibly flawed outfit.
This was posted on the CARD/EFL thread but might have been better here.
@Covered End said he thought the last meeting with LdT, the Aussies and the Americans (conference call) was an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. I replied as below:
It would seem odd, on the face of it, if the meeting was just an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. That’d be pretty embarrassing for them.
You’d think it was more likely to have be a conference call where the (potential?) American backers could ask questions of LdT?
If it really was a fund raising exercise held in front of Lieven, it’d be a sign of how hard it is find anyone interested in buying us at the price/terms available. It’d be very concerning.
So I’m hoping it was a q & a session where, if the yanks had their questions answered satisfactorily, their funds might be ‘unlocked’
Fingers crossed.
As previously discussed, it’s worrying that no other bidder has even got to the stage the Aussies have. What is putting everyone off?
Just taking the point you raise about no other bidder, hasn't the suggestion been made that Duchatelet has deliberately put off other potential buyers by quoting a ridiculously inflated price? No idea if there is any truth in this, but if there is I would hate to think that some potential moneybags is being sacrificed at the expense of a stubborn attachment to possibly flawed outfit.
It isn’t that. They’ve had shouting matches. Duchâtelet doesn’t do attachment unless it Katrien.
@Airman Brown do we know approximately the value here of the unpaid bonus payments?
wasn't it reported that the total amount was a 5 figure sum (so pocket change to Roland, yet he still refuses to pay it)
I'd heard that banded about just wondered what roughly the actual number was, think we all agree it's ridiculous in the scheme of things at that sort of level.
Given the near 100% certainty that IT won’t be happening today I thought it appropriate that we once again take this thread into the realms of the surreal. Well, we already have fish puns and who can forget the 16th century Belgian ambassador’s portrait? So, where better to go than the Theatre of the Absurd and in particular Samuel Beckett’s seminal ‘Waiting for Godot’ which has been described as a play in which nothing happens twice. What a marvellous metaphor (if that is the right word) for the sale of Charlton where nothing has happened at least twice if not on many more occasions.
In the real play two characters (Vladimir and Estragon) sit around waiting for someone to arrive (the mysterious Godot). It is subtly understood that Vladimir is the master and Estragon his servant although both are usually dressed as tramps. If we substitute Roland for Vladimir and Lieven de Turck for Estragon then it takes only a few tweaks to lift sections of the play almost verbatim: Thus, I present (with apologies to Samuel Beckett) Waiting for The Aussie.
ACT ONE: SCENE ONE
A small town somewhere in Belgium. Two men (Roland and Lieven) are sitting under a tree outside a café which may or may not be owned by one of the men
ROLAND: Well? What do we do?
LIEVEN: Don't do anything. It's safer.
ROLAND: Let's wait and see what he says.
LIEVEN: Who?
ROLAND: The Aussie.
LIEVEN: Good idea.
ROLAND: Let's wait till we know exactly how we stand.
LIEVEN: On the other hand, it might be better to strike the iron before it freezes.
ROLAND: I'm curious to hear what he has to offer. Then I’ll take it or leave it.
LIEVEN: What exactly did you ask you for?
ROLAND: Were you not there?
LIEVEN: I can't have been listening.
ROLAND: Oh . . . about 70 million.
LIEVEN: A kind of prayer.
ROLAND: Precisely.
LIEVEN: A vague supplication.
ROLAND: Exactly.
LIEVEN: And what did he reply?
ROLAND: That he'd see.
LIEVEN: That he couldn't promise anything.
ROLAND: That he'd have to think it over.
LIEVEN: In the quiet of his home?
ROLAND: Consult his agents.
LIEVEN: His correspondents?
ROLAND: His books.
LIEVEN: His bank account!
ROLAND: Before taking a decision.
LIEVEN: It's the normal thing.
ROLAND: Is it not?
LIEVEN: I think it is.
ROLAND: I think so too.
LIEVEN: And we?
ROLAND: I beg your pardon?
LIEVEN: I said, And we?
ROLAND: I don't understand.
LIEVEN: Where do we come in?
ROLAND: Come in?
LIEVEN: Take your time.
ROLAND: Come in? On our hands and knees.
LIEVEN: As bad as that?
ACT ONE SCENE TWO
BOY (for it is Tony K): Mister Roland . . . ?
ROLAND: Yes.
LIEVEN: What do you want?
ROLAND: Approach! (The Boy does not move).
LIEVEN: Approach when you're told, can't you? (The Boy advances timidly, halts).
ROLAND: What is it?
LIEVEN: (violently) Will you approach! (The Boy advances timidly). What kept you so late?
ROLAND: You have a message from the Aussie?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Well, what is it?
LIEVEN: What kept you so late?
BOY: I was afraid, Sir.
LIEVEN: Afraid of what? Of us? Answer me!
ROLAND: I know what it is, he was afraid of not getting his bonus. Were you afraid of that boy?
BOY: Yes Sir.
LIEVEN: Well?
BOY: The Aussie—
ROLAND: Obviously.
BOY: The Aussie told me to tell you he won't come today but surely tomorrow.
END OF ACT ONE
Interval: this may last for one year or possibly much longer.
ACT TWO SCENE ONE
BOY (Tony K): Mister Roland. . . . . .?
ROLAND: Off we go again. You have a message from the Aussie?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: He won't come today?
BOY: No Sir.
ROLAND: But he'll come tomorrow?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Without fail?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Did you meet anyone?
BOY: No Sir.
ROLAND: Two other Aussies or Saudis?
BOY: I didn't see anyone, Sir.
ROLAND: What does he do, the Aussie? Do you hear me?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Well?
BOY: He does nothing, Sir.
ROLAND: Has he a scarf, the Aussie?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Red and White or Black and White?
BOY: I think it's Red and white, Sir.
ROLAND: Lord have thanks!
BOY: What am I to tell the Aussie, Sir?
ROLAND: Tell him . . . tell him you saw me and that . . . nothing else.
LIEVEN: What's wrong with you?
ROLAND: Nothing.
LIEVEN: I'm going.
ROLAND: So am I.
LIEVEN: Where shall we go?
ROLAND: No, We can't go.
LIEVEN: Why not?
ROLAND: We have to come back tomorrow.
LIEVEN: What for?
ROLAND: To wait for the Aussie.
LIEVEN He didn't come?
ROLAND: No.
LIEVEN: And now it's too late.
ROLAND: Yes, it may be too late.
LIEVEN: And if we dropped him?
ROLAND: He might pull out first.
LIEVEN: Then we can't. You say we have to come back tomorrow?
ROLAND: Yes.
LIEVEN: I can't go on like this.
ROLAND: That's what you think.
LIEVEN: If we stayed? That might be better. Until the Aussie comes.
ROLAND Yes.
THE END
NOTE: PERFORMANCES OF THE ABOVE WILL BE REPEATED EVERY DAY FOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE
Given the near 100% certainty that IT won’t be happening today I thought it appropriate that we once again take this thread into the realms of the surreal. Well, we already have fish puns and who can forget the 16th century Belgian ambassador’s portrait? So, where better to go than the Theatre of the Absurd and in particular Samuel Beckett’s seminal ‘Waiting for Godot’ which has been described as a play in which nothing happens twice. What a marvellous metaphor (if that is the right word) for the sale of Charlton where nothing has happened at least twice if not on many more occasions.
In the real play two characters (Vladimir and Estragon) sit around waiting for someone to arrive (the mysterious Godot). It is subtly understood that Vladimir is the master and Estragon his servant although both are usually dressed as tramps. If we substitute Roland for Vladimir and Lieven de Turck for Estragon then it takes only a few tweaks to lift sections of the play almost verbatim: Thus, I present (with apologies to Samuel Beckett) Waiting for The Aussie.
ACT ONE: SCENE ONE
A small town somewhere in Belgium. Two men (Roland and Lieven) are sitting under a tree outside a café which may or may not be owned by one of the men
ROLAND: Well? What do we do?
LIEVEN: Don't do anything. It's safer.
ROLAND: Let's wait and see what he says.
LIEVEN: Who?
ROLAND: The Aussie.
LIEVEN: Good idea.
ROLAND: Let's wait till we know exactly how we stand.
LIEVEN: On the other hand, it might be better to strike the iron before it freezes.
ROLAND: I'm curious to hear what he has to offer. Then I’ll take it or leave it.
LIEVEN: What exactly did you ask you for?
ROLAND: Were you not there?
LIEVEN: I can't have been listening.
ROLAND: Oh . . . about 70 million.
LIEVEN: A kind of prayer.
ROLAND: Precisely.
LIEVEN: A vague supplication.
ROLAND: Exactly.
LIEVEN: And what did he reply?
ROLAND: That he'd see.
LIEVEN: That he couldn't promise anything.
ROLAND: That he'd have to think it over.
LIEVEN: In the quiet of his home?
ROLAND: Consult his agents.
LIEVEN: His correspondents?
ROLAND: His books.
LIEVEN: His bank account!
ROLAND: Before taking a decision.
LIEVEN: It's the normal thing.
ROLAND: Is it not?
LIEVEN: I think it is.
ROLAND: I think so too.
LIEVEN: And we?
ROLAND: I beg your pardon?
LIEVEN: I said, And we?
ROLAND: I don't understand.
LIEVEN: Where do we come in?
ROLAND: Come in?
LIEVEN: Take your time.
ROLAND: Come in? On our hands and knees.
LIEVEN: As bad as that?
ACT ONE SCENE TWO
BOY (for it is Tony K): Mister Roland . . . ?
ROLAND: Yes.
LIEVEN: What do you want?
ROLAND: Approach! (The Boy does not move).
LIEVEN: Approach when you're told, can't you? (The Boy advances timidly, halts).
ROLAND: What is it?
LIEVEN: (violently) Will you approach! (The Boy advances timidly). What kept you so late?
ROLAND: You have a message from the Aussie?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Well, what is it?
LIEVEN: What kept you so late?
BOY: I was afraid, Sir.
LIEVEN: Afraid of what? Of us? Answer me!
ROLAND: I know what it is, he was afraid of not getting his bonus. Were you afraid of that boy?
BOY: Yes Sir.
LIEVEN: Well?
BOY: The Aussie—
ROLAND: Obviously.
BOY: The Aussie told me to tell you he won't come today but surely tomorrow.
END OF ACT ONE
Interval: this may last for one year or possibly much longer.
ACT TWO SCENE ONE
BOY (Tony K): Mister Roland. . . . . .?
ROLAND: Off we go again. You have a message from the Aussie?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: He won't come today?
BOY: No Sir.
ROLAND: But he'll come tomorrow?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Without fail?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Did you meet anyone?
BOY: No Sir.
ROLAND: Two other Aussies or Saudis?
BOY: I didn't see anyone, Sir.
ROLAND: What does he do, the Aussie? Do you hear me?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Well?
BOY: He does nothing, Sir.
ROLAND: Has he a scarf, the Aussie?
BOY: Yes Sir.
ROLAND: Red and White or Black and White?
BOY: I think it's Red and white, Sir.
ROLAND: Lord have thanks!
BOY: What am I to tell the Aussie, Sir?
ROLAND: Tell him . . . tell him you saw me and that . . . nothing else.
LIEVEN: What's wrong with you?
ROLAND: Nothing.
LIEVEN: I'm going.
ROLAND: So am I.
LIEVEN: Where shall we go?
ROLAND: No, We can't go.
LIEVEN: Why not?
ROLAND: We have to come back tomorrow.
LIEVEN: What for?
ROLAND: To wait for the Aussie.
LIEVEN He didn't come?
ROLAND: No.
LIEVEN: And now it's too late.
ROLAND: Yes, it may be too late.
LIEVEN: And if we dropped him?
ROLAND: He might pull out first.
LIEVEN: Then we can't. You say we have to come back tomorrow?
ROLAND: Yes.
LIEVEN: I can't go on like this.
ROLAND: That's what you think.
LIEVEN: If we stayed? That might be better. Until the Aussie comes.
ROLAND Yes.
THE END
NOTE: PERFORMANCES OF THE ABOVE WILL BE REPEATED EVERY DAY FOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE
Comments
If the Americans liked the answers from LDT & the Aussies, then they would invest (unlock the money).
Could be a Russian oligarch with millions of dirty money to launder.
Could be a serious buyer waiting for Roland to drop his price.
Not being ITK, who knows?
No idea if there is any truth in this, but if there is I would hate to think that some potential moneybags is being sacrificed at the expense of a stubborn attachment to possibly flawed outfit.
For the staff involved it’s much more significant.
For the tattered reputation of our club as an ethical organisation, it’s priceless.
Brexit and Charlton take over is the perfect storm..
"Not quite dear, but that nice Mr White said we are only 72 hours away."
"That was last week mum and he's on Talkshit"
"Well someone at the training ground introduced themselves as the new owner"
"That was just the canteen which had been outsourced"
"It's happening because someone knew the broker who said the T's were about to be crossed and the i's were about to be dotted."
"That was just for the new shirt sponsor Swarovski, I seen Williams, Reeves and Page pictured in the new sponsored shirt."
"What about that nice Mr Seed and his Aussie friend"
"I agree Mr Seed is a nice man but he's been recycling the same words but in a different order for a couple of years now"
"Airman Brown then"
"Airman Brown is a legend but since done dealgate it's hard for him and I saw him selling magazines on a street corner, I think it was the big issue."
"Richard Murray then"
"Richard Murray is persona non grata"
" I might have you adopted son"
"Don't shoot me mum, I'm only the messenger"
In the real play two characters (Vladimir and Estragon) sit around waiting for someone to arrive (the mysterious Godot). It is subtly understood that Vladimir is the master and Estragon his servant although both are usually dressed as tramps. If we substitute Roland for Vladimir and Lieven de Turck for Estragon then it takes only a few tweaks to lift sections of the play almost verbatim: Thus, I present (with apologies to Samuel Beckett) Waiting for The Aussie.
ACT ONE: SCENE ONE
A small town somewhere in Belgium. Two men (Roland and Lieven) are sitting under a tree outside a café which may or may not be owned by one of the men
ROLAND:
Well? What do we do?
LIEVEN:
Don't do anything. It's safer.
ROLAND:
Let's wait and see what he says.
LIEVEN:
Who?
ROLAND:
The Aussie.
LIEVEN:
Good idea.
ROLAND:
Let's wait till we know exactly how we stand.
LIEVEN:
On the other hand, it might be better to strike the iron before it freezes.
ROLAND:
I'm curious to hear what he has to offer. Then I’ll take it or leave it.
LIEVEN:
What exactly did you ask you for?
ROLAND:
Were you not there?
LIEVEN:
I can't have been listening.
ROLAND:
Oh . . . about 70 million.
LIEVEN:
A kind of prayer.
ROLAND:
Precisely.
LIEVEN:
A vague supplication.
ROLAND:
Exactly.
LIEVEN:
And what did he reply?
ROLAND:
That he'd see.
LIEVEN:
That he couldn't promise anything.
ROLAND:
That he'd have to think it over.
LIEVEN:
In the quiet of his home?
ROLAND:
Consult his agents.
LIEVEN:
His correspondents?
ROLAND:
His books.
LIEVEN:
His bank account!
ROLAND:
Before taking a decision.
LIEVEN:
It's the normal thing.
ROLAND:
Is it not?
LIEVEN:
I think it is.
ROLAND:
I think so too.
LIEVEN:
And we?
ROLAND:
I beg your pardon?
LIEVEN:
I said, And we?
ROLAND:
I don't understand.
LIEVEN:
Where do we come in?
ROLAND:
Come in?
LIEVEN:
Take your time.
ROLAND:
Come in? On our hands and knees.
LIEVEN:
As bad as that?
ACT ONE SCENE TWO
BOY (for it is Tony K):
Mister Roland . . . ?
ROLAND:
Yes.
LIEVEN:
What do you want?
ROLAND:
Approach!
(The Boy does not move).
LIEVEN:
Approach when you're told, can't you?
(The Boy advances timidly, halts).
ROLAND:
What is it?
LIEVEN:
(violently) Will you approach!
(The Boy advances timidly).
What kept you so late?
ROLAND:
You have a message from the Aussie?
BOY:
Yes Sir.
ROLAND:
Well, what is it?
LIEVEN:
What kept you so late?
BOY:
I was afraid, Sir.
LIEVEN:
Afraid of what? Of us? Answer me!
ROLAND:
I know what it is, he was afraid of not getting his bonus.
Were you afraid of that boy?
BOY:
Yes Sir.
LIEVEN:
Well?
BOY:
The Aussie—
ROLAND:
Obviously.
BOY:
The Aussie told me to tell you he won't come today but surely tomorrow.
END OF ACT ONE
Interval: this may last for one year or possibly much longer.
ACT TWO SCENE ONE
BOY (Tony K):
Mister Roland. . . . . .?
ROLAND:
Off we go again. You have a message from the Aussie?
BOY:
Yes Sir.
ROLAND:
He won't come today?
BOY:
No Sir.
ROLAND:
But he'll come tomorrow?
BOY:
Yes Sir.
ROLAND:
Without fail?
BOY:
Yes Sir.
ROLAND:
Did you meet anyone?
BOY:
No Sir.
ROLAND:
Two other Aussies or Saudis?
BOY:
I didn't see anyone, Sir.
ROLAND:
What does he do, the Aussie?
Do you hear me?
BOY:
Yes Sir.
ROLAND:
Well?
BOY:
He does nothing, Sir.
ROLAND:
Has he a scarf, the Aussie?
BOY:
Yes Sir.
ROLAND:
Red and White or Black and White?
BOY:
I think it's Red and white, Sir.
ROLAND:
Lord have thanks!
BOY:
What am I to tell the Aussie, Sir?
ROLAND:
Tell him . . . tell him you saw me and that . . . nothing else.
LIEVEN:
What's wrong with you?
ROLAND:
Nothing.
LIEVEN:
I'm going.
ROLAND:
So am I.
LIEVEN:
Where shall we go?
ROLAND:
No, We can't go.
LIEVEN:
Why not?
ROLAND:
We have to come back tomorrow.
LIEVEN:
What for?
ROLAND:
To wait for the Aussie.
LIEVEN
He didn't come?
ROLAND:
No.
LIEVEN:
And now it's too late.
ROLAND:
Yes, it may be too late.
LIEVEN:
And if we dropped him?
ROLAND:
He might pull out first.
LIEVEN:
Then we can't.
You say we have to come back tomorrow?
ROLAND:
Yes.
LIEVEN:
I can't go on like this.
ROLAND:
That's what you think.
LIEVEN:
If we stayed? That might be better.
Until the Aussie comes.
ROLAND
Yes.
THE END
NOTE: PERFORMANCES OF THE ABOVE WILL BE REPEATED EVERY DAY FOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE