Airmen - are you planning to send a copy of the statement to JW and ask him how / who gave him the statement that we were days away from athe sale, this dosnt stack up. I think he needs to go back to his contact get an explanation and put it out on his show for all to hear.
It does stack up. As the EFL themselves said, if the information is provided and is satisfactory things can move very quickly.
Apart from JW’s source, there was an expectation on the part of the club that it was about to happen at the turn of the year. The fact it didn’t get as far as the EFL doesn’t change the fact that other people - with every reason to know - thought it was about to happen
But don't you think that a problem here might be the EFL's definition of "very quickly"? I just can't see how, if documents were lacking from an Aussie deal, and had been for some time, and it was to be resolved by a new partner joining to boost the consortium's funds, that could go through within 72 hours.
You've visited the EFL now. It's not a big operation. They outsource a lot of their work for the ODT, and that team is working on other deals at any one time. I think you'd agree that there is now a certain amount of goodwill from the EFL towards us fans, but nowhere enough for them to drop all else they were doing to push this through in 48-72 hours. If I were them , I would not make any special effort, because the deal has been fannying around with them for getting on a year, and Duchatelet has been a pain in the neck to them.
@Henry Irving suggested that a deal could have been announced "subject to EFL approval", and they certainly could have done that, but I would think that would be most unwise. Th EFL would see that as loading the focus of fans on them to not hold up a deal which has held itself up for year.
Not seeking to dispute anything, and maybe I have missed something about how you viewed the info you obtained; I just wonder whether now you have evidence that nothing new has happened on the ODT, you don't accept that the timeframe being suggested for a deal being announced was highly optimistic?
I’ve said before that I think JW overplayed the story, but I don’t think he was talking about EFL approval at all because his source was telling him the nature of the people involved made that no problem - as indeed the EFL suggested had applied with Villa.
Neither the 2010 takeover nor the 2014 was held up by the EFL. They both happened quickly, despite happening over Christmas and New Year, with public holidays intervening and most staff probably away.
On your point about Duchatelet, they are very keen to resolve the problem - whether for their own reasons or ours - so I don’t see them taking their time in order to be difficult.
On that point, though...the ODT has been significantly strengthened since then, and people still question whether it is strong enough. So while I don't suggest the EFL would be difficult -the opposite is true - they are still going to take a lot of care. Not least because Harvey has a monstrous salary, an easy target for journalists. Paradoxically because we have been successful in getting RD's appalling ownership on the national agenda - with other fans often conceding he is among the top 3 worst - the EFL will want to make sure that there is no blowback on them if the next lot -whoever they are - quickly turn out to be charlatans and chancers too.
I really don't know, but if it would be a case of a new consortium member adding to the existing members, and bringing with him/her the new funds which might be needed, I would reckon they'd need two weeks to rubber-stamp that, certainly no less, and also depending on what else the ODT team is working on at the time.
Suppose it’s an established investment fund, for example? The EFL’s quoted example yesterday (not specific to Charlton) was a billionaire, which they said would take no time at all.
Point taken. If I really wanted to quibble, I would still maintain that Harvey's idea of "No time at all" is unlikley to be 72 hours, simply because of the small size of their ODT team, and might depend on whether they are wrestling with another one at the time. Anyway, let's see, what we now know is that the EFL have nothing new to work on right now, and the window closes in two weeks.
Airmen - are you planning to send a copy of the statement to JW and ask him how / who gave him the statement that we were days away from athe sale, this dosnt stack up. I think he needs to go back to his contact get an explanation and put it out on his show for all to hear.
It does stack up. As the EFL themselves said, if the information is provided and is satisfactory things can move very quickly.
Apart from JW’s source, there was an expectation on the part of the club that it was about to happen at the turn of the year. The fact it didn’t get as far as the EFL doesn’t change the fact that other people - with every reason to know - thought it was about to happen
But don't you think that a problem here might be the EFL's definition of "very quickly"? I just can't see how, if documents were lacking from an Aussie deal, and had been for some time, and it was to be resolved by a new partner joining to boost the consortium's funds, that could go through within 72 hours.
You've visited the EFL now. It's not a big operation. They outsource a lot of their work for the ODT, and that team is working on other deals at any one time. I think you'd agree that there is now a certain amount of goodwill from the EFL towards us fans, but nowhere enough for them to drop all else they were doing to push this through in 48-72 hours. If I were them , I would not make any special effort, because the deal has been fannying around with them for getting on a year, and Duchatelet has been a pain in the neck to them.
@Henry Irving suggested that a deal could have been announced "subject to EFL approval", and they certainly could have done that, but I would think that would be most unwise. Th EFL would see that as loading the focus of fans on them to not hold up a deal which has held itself up for year.
Not seeking to dispute anything, and maybe I have missed something about how you viewed the info you obtained; I just wonder whether now you have evidence that nothing new has happened on the ODT, you don't accept that the timeframe being suggested for a deal being announced was highly optimistic?
I’ve said before that I think JW overplayed the story, but I don’t think he was talking about EFL approval at all because his source was telling him the nature of the people involved made that no problem - as indeed the EFL suggested had applied with Villa.
Neither the 2010 takeover nor the 2014 was held up by the EFL. They both happened quickly, despite happening over Christmas and New Year, with public holidays intervening and most staff probably away.
On your point about Duchatelet, they are very keen to resolve the problem - whether for their own reasons or ours - so I don’t see them taking their time in order to be difficult.
On that point, though...the ODT has been significantly strengthened since then, and people still question whether it is strong enough. So while I don't suggest the EFL would be difficult -the opposite is true - they are still going to take a lot of care. Not least because Harvey has a monstrous salary, an easy target for journalists. Paradoxically because we have been successful in getting RD's appalling ownership on the national agenda - with other fans often conceding he is among the top 3 worst - the EFL will want to make sure that there is no blowback on them if the next lot -whoever they are - quickly turn out to be charlatans and chancers too.
I really don't know, but if it would be a case of a new consortium member adding to the existing members, and bringing with him/her the new funds which might be needed, I would reckon they'd need two weeks to rubber-stamp that, certainly no less, and also depending on what else the ODT team is working on at the time.
Suppose it’s an established investment fund, for example? The EFL’s quoted example yesterday (not specific to Charlton) was a billionaire, which they said would take no time at all.
Point taken. If I really wanted to quibble, I would still maintain that Harvey's idea of "No time at all" is unlikley to be 72 hours, simply because of the small size of their ODT team, and might depend on whether they are wrestling with another one at the time. Anyway, let's see, what we now know is that the EFL have nothing new to work on right now, and the window closes in two weeks.
I believe the Villa take over was done in less than 72hours though.
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
Good question. Do we have to wait for a takeover Fans Forum to ask it? Or could CAST ask him directly by email today?
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
That is pretty much the point I made to him at the last FF
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
One of the documents the EFL received was a copy of the purchase agreement, as I understand it. It seems clear, even from LDT, that no one else has ever reached that point, so I am not sure why they would have submitted papers to the EFL.
Harvey did make clear that it frequently happened that people submit to the ODT (and in many cases pass it) but never subsequently take up positions or complete transactions. To take the ODT they need to be put forward by a member club. I’d have thought the lack of a sale agreement with other parties was more meaningful, tbh. I don’t see how they would get to the EFL stage without it.
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
One of the documents the EFL received was a copy of the purchase agreement, as I understand it. It seems clear, even from LDT, that no one else has ever reached that point, so I am not sure why they would have submitted papers to the EFL.
Harvey did make clear that it frequently happened that people submit to the ODT (and in many cases pass it) but never subsequently take up positions or complete transactions. To take the ODT they need to be put forward by a member club. I’d have thought the lack of a sale agreement with other parties was more meaningful, tbh. I don’t see how they would get to the EFL stage without it.
In your opinion Airman, do the other parties even exist?
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
A slightly less wordy version of that question was asked at the last FF.
LDT didn't give a clear answer, mentioned houses in Kensington and then back tracked when pushed on the relevance of W11 residences.
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
Good question. Do we have to wait for a takeover Fans Forum to ask it? Or could CAST ask him directly by email today?
I'll defer to @razil on that as he has taken my place on the board :-)
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
One of the documents the EFL received was a copy of the purchase agreement, as I understand it. It seems clear, even from LDT, that no one else has ever reached that point, so I am not sure why they would have submitted papers to the EFL.
Harvey did make clear that it frequently happened that people submit to the ODT (and in many cases pass it) but never subsequently take up positions or complete transactions. To take the ODT they need to be put forward by a member club. I’d have thought the lack of a sale agreement with other parties was more meaningful, tbh. I don’t see how they would get to the EFL stage without it.
In your opinion Airman, do the other parties even exist?
Even if they did exist they don’t now.....one must reasonably assume that’s because of the asking price. We are informed by Goldfingers spokesman that there are/were five other interested parties, all of whom have seemingly walked. There can only be one reason and one reason only why they have ‘all’ walked........the asking price. This is the reason why I personally think that he is in no hurry whatsoever to sell until the asking price (or close to it) is offered......it’s making the club virtually unsaleable. There has to be an underlying reason or reasons why this is.....until that is known, we are left dealing with a person who has a number of very very odd characteristics. He has never for one moment explained himself and his atrocious tenure of ownership. In my opinion he actually seems to be enjoying fucking us and the EFL around. Don’t try applying logic to this guy.............you’re just wasting your time, sad to say he’s a bit of a nutter on the quiet.
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
Good question. Do we have to wait for a takeover Fans Forum to ask it? Or could CAST ask him directly by email today?
I'll defer to @razil on that as he has taken my place on the board :-)
I think this was asked possibly twice in different ways, my emphasis was that the lack of a sale over the last 2 years would indicate that the price range they are following is only attracting the wrong type of buyers.. he didn't agree.
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
One of the documents the EFL received was a copy of the purchase agreement, as I understand it. It seems clear, even from LDT, that no one else has ever reached that point, so I am not sure why they would have submitted papers to the EFL.
Harvey did make clear that it frequently happened that people submit to the ODT (and in many cases pass it) but never subsequently take up positions or complete transactions. To take the ODT they need to be put forward by a member club. I’d have thought the lack of a sale agreement with other parties was more meaningful, tbh. I don’t see how they would get to the EFL stage without it.
In your opinion Airman, do the other parties even exist?
I am very clear that there have been and are other interested parties. How interested they are is another matter - evidently not to the extent of prices being quoted to them thus far.
This is pure conjecture on my part as I am not nor do I want to be ITK in any way, but I am perfectly willing to believe that a sale price has been agreed between RD and the Aussies at a reasonable level (say £30-35m).
Having read all of the various opinions and information supplied by DLT et al I think that it is entirely possible that the Belgian nutjob is asking a would be buyer to recompense him for the running costs he has incurred over the last 12-24 months in order not to come out of the deal with a loss either of cash or face.
If we accept that it is costing him a million a month to keep the place going and he wants to recoup this sum it could put the price back up to around 60 mill overall. No doubt the Aussies are balking at this and may have offered a contribution but in my view are unlikely to agree to meet the whole cost and this could be the sticking point.
As I say it is only my theory but it would explain why we constantly get told the price is not an issue, the ridiculous attempts to cut costs and make whatever cash can be made on player sales as well as explain why there seems to be such an impasse.
If this is anywhere near the truth it's no wonder to me that buyers keep heading for the hills.
Perhaps bowyer is waiting for the end of the transfer window to get his other forward as he’s hoping the sale goes through and funds are coming his way? Here’s hoping 😉
This is just me thinking out loud - I have no inside knowledge.
Several times when tackled about the question of the price-tag, Roland has replied "that is not important", and I have assumed he was just fending off the question about money.
I'm starting to wonder if he might have meant "that is not the issue" - thereby implying there is something other than the price (or maybe as well as?!) which is the stumbling block.
Some time ago there were rumours on here that DD had uncovered something from the pre-RD era which was a big problem (something other than the money owed to the ex-directors). Is there anyone who is ITK who knows any more about this now? It occurs to me that if this issue was resolved last month, that could have been the reason for parties believing the sale might now move forwards?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? (Or maybe, just plain barking!!)
This is pure conjecture on my part as I am not nor do I want to be ITK in any way, but I am perfectly willing to believe that a sale price has been agreed between RD and the Aussies at a reasonable level (say £30-35m).
Having read all of the various opinions and information supplied by DLT et al I think that it is entirely possible that the Belgian nutjob is asking a would be buyer to recompense him for the running costs he has incurred over the last 12-24 months in order not to come out of the deal with a loss either of cash or face.
If we accept that it is costing him a million a month to keep the place going and he wants to recoup this sum it could put the price back up to around 60 mill overall. No doubt the Aussies are balking at this and may have offered a contribution but in my view are unlikely to agree to meet the whole cost and this could be the sticking point.
As I say it is only my theory but it would explain why we constantly get told the price is not an issue, the ridiculous attempts to cut costs and make whatever cash can be made on player sales as well as explain why there seems to be such an impasse.
If this is anywhere near the truth it's no wonder to me that buyers keep heading for the hills.
I doubt anyone would agree to that. Perhaps a share might be more likely. Edit (as I’ve just realised you went on to say...)
This was posted on the CARD/EFL thread but might have been better here.
@Covered End said he thought the last meeting with LdT, the Aussies and the Americans (conference call) was an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. I replied as below:
It would seem odd, on the face of it, if the meeting was just an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. That’d be pretty embarrassing for them.
You’d think it was more likely to have be a conference call where the (potential?) American backers could ask questions of LdT?
If it really was a fund raising exercise held in front of Lieven, it’d be a sign of how hard it is find anyone interested in buying us at the price/terms available. It’d be very concerning.
So I’m hoping it was a q & a session where, if the yanks had their questions answered satisfactorily, their funds might be ‘unlocked’
Fingers crossed.
As previously discussed, it’s worrying that no other bidder has even got to the stage the Aussies have. What is putting everyone off?
So as a separate point, if we were meeting de Turck tomorrow, top of my list of questions would be
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
One of the documents the EFL received was a copy of the purchase agreement, as I understand it. It seems clear, even from LDT, that no one else has ever reached that point, so I am not sure why they would have submitted papers to the EFL.
Harvey did make clear that it frequently happened that people submit to the ODT (and in many cases pass it) but never subsequently take up positions or complete transactions. To take the ODT they need to be put forward by a member club. I’d have thought the lack of a sale agreement with other parties was more meaningful, tbh. I don’t see how they would get to the EFL stage without it.
In your opinion Airman, do the other parties even exist?
Even if they did exist they don’t now.....one must reasonably assume that’s because of the asking price. We are informed by Goldfingers spokesman that there are/were five other interested parties, all of whom have seemingly walked. There can only be one reason and one reason only why they have ‘all’ walked........the asking price. This is the reason why I personally think that he is in no hurry whatsoever to sell until the asking price (or close to it) is offered......it’s making the club virtually unsaleable. There has to be an underlying reason or reasons why this is.....until that is known, we are left dealing with a person who has a number of very very odd characteristics. He has never for one moment explained himself and his atrocious tenure of ownership. In my opinion he actually seems to be enjoying fucking us and the EFL around. Don’t try applying logic to this guy.............you’re just wasting your time, sad to say he’s a bit of a nutter on the quiet.
Our eccentric owner is obviously a factor. While many dream of and crave his level of wealth, it can create a bubble where they are out of touch with reality, and those in their closest circle don't dare to shatter the illusion often for personal gain. So as well as the rich - Rolund/Katrien, famous actors/pop stars also suffer - Michael Jackson/Conrad Murray, Elvis and his entourage, it's all like the Emperor's Clothes.
This was posted on the CARD/EFL thread but might have been better here.
@Covered End said he thought the last meeting with LdT, the Aussies and the Americans (conference call) was an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. I replied as below:
It would seem odd, on the face of it, if the meeting was just an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. That’d be pretty embarrassing for them.
You’d think it was more likely to have be a conference call where the (potential?) American backers could ask questions of LdT?
If it really was a fund raising exercise held in front of Lieven, it’d be a sign of how hard it is find anyone interested in buying us at the price/terms available. It’d be very concerning.
So I’m hoping it was a q & a session where, if the yanks had their questions answered satisfactorily, their funds might be ‘unlocked’
Fingers crossed.
As previously discussed, it’s worrying that no other bidder has even got to the stage the Aussies have. What is putting everyone off?
I'd agree your interpretation is more than plausable. If the Americans liked the answers from LDT & the Aussies, then they would invest (unlock the money).
Comments
" You have frequently stated that several serious bidders have been in the frame at various times in the last 12 months, however we now know for a fact that as of January 16 none of them have got as far as submitting to the EFL ODT. How would you explain the unwillingness of any of these serious bidders to move forward to this step? Have you as a result re-considered whether the current offer for sale is viable in the market-place?
I imagine when the aussies were asked for further documents someone got cold feet and backed out, leaving the gap in funding we've heaed about.
Harvey did make clear that it frequently happened that people submit to the ODT (and in many cases pass it) but never subsequently take up positions or complete transactions. To take the ODT they need to be put forward by a member club. I’d have thought the lack of a sale agreement with other parties was more meaningful, tbh. I don’t see how they would get to the EFL stage without it.
LDT didn't give a clear answer, mentioned houses in Kensington and then back tracked when pushed on the relevance of W11 residences.
We are informed by Goldfingers spokesman that there are/were five other interested parties, all of whom have seemingly walked.
There can only be one reason and one reason only why they have ‘all’ walked........the asking price.
This is the reason why I personally think that he is in no hurry whatsoever to sell until the asking price (or close to it) is offered......it’s making the club virtually unsaleable.
There has to be an underlying reason or reasons why this is.....until that is known, we are left dealing with a person who has a number of very very odd characteristics. He has never for one moment explained himself and his atrocious tenure of ownership.
In my opinion he actually seems to be enjoying fucking us and the EFL around.
Don’t try applying logic to this guy.............you’re just wasting your time, sad to say he’s a bit of a nutter on the quiet.
Having read all of the various opinions and information supplied by DLT et al I think that it is entirely possible that the Belgian nutjob is asking a would be buyer to recompense him for the running costs he has incurred over the last 12-24 months in order not to come out of the deal with a loss either of cash or face.
If we accept that it is costing him a million a month to keep the place going and he wants to recoup this sum it could put the price back up to around 60 mill overall. No doubt the Aussies are balking at this and may have offered a contribution but in my view are unlikely to agree to meet the whole cost and this could be the sticking point.
As I say it is only my theory but it would explain why we constantly get told the price is not an issue, the ridiculous attempts to cut costs and make whatever cash can be made on player sales as well as explain why there seems to be such an impasse.
If this is anywhere near the truth it's no wonder to me that buyers keep heading for the hills.
Here’s hoping 😉
Several times when tackled about the question of the price-tag, Roland has replied "that is not important", and I have assumed he was just fending off the question about money.
I'm starting to wonder if he might have meant "that is not the issue" - thereby implying there is something other than the price (or maybe as well as?!) which is the stumbling block.
Some time ago there were rumours on here that DD had uncovered something from the pre-RD era which was a big problem (something other than the money owed to the ex-directors). Is there anyone who is ITK who knows any more about this now? It occurs to me that if this issue was resolved last month, that could have been the reason for parties believing the sale might now move forwards?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? (Or maybe, just plain barking!!)
Edit (as I’ve just realised you went on to say...)
@Covered End said he thought the last meeting with LdT, the Aussies and the Americans (conference call) was an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. I replied as below:
It would seem odd, on the face of it, if the meeting was just an attempt to raise funds for the Aussies. That’d be pretty embarrassing for them.
You’d think it was more likely to have be a conference call where the (potential?) American backers could ask questions of LdT?
If it really was a fund raising exercise held in front of Lieven, it’d be a sign of how hard it is find anyone interested in buying us at the price/terms available. It’d be very concerning.
So I’m hoping it was a q & a session where, if the yanks had their questions answered satisfactorily, their funds might be ‘unlocked’
Fingers crossed.
As previously discussed, it’s worrying that no other bidder has even got to the stage the Aussies have. What is putting everyone off?
If the Americans liked the answers from LDT & the Aussies, then they would invest (unlock the money).