For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
They shouldn't have to find the £7m at all. It's not their debt, it belongs to Roland, he bought the club with it. If they want a clean title, it's their prerogative to insist the debentures are settled. None of us have the right to tell any prospective buyer what the parameters of their deal should be, it's not a red herring, like it or not, it's a legitimate reason for delaying a purchase. We all want a deal to go through, but it's not our money, and if Roland doesn't settle the debt, regardless whether the Aussies have to find the money now or later, it's £7m, it's not pocket change, and they clearly feel it's not their debt to pay off.
But it's not £7m
It's £7m sometime in the future, after a low probability series of events have happened. An actuary valuing this would give it a much smaller valuation, given the relatively small chance of it ever happening, and inflation eroding the "real" value of £7m.
If this is the reason the takeover has been delayed, then EVERYONE is losing, Roland, the Aussies, the ex directors, the fans. And all for what is a tiny sum of money in the bigger picture (when you consider the annual loss we make)
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Do the ex-directors have to agree to have their loans rolled over to a new party on the same conditions (no pay until Prem) or can Roland do it unilaterally?
No they don’t have to agree. But they can make life difficult for the new owner by obstructing leases or other disposal of land and they hold the first charge - over the owner - if things go pear-shaped financially.
The ex-directors don't have a say whether the loans are rolled over - so none of the 7 are unilaterally holding up the deal. They do not need to be consulted.
The amount to be repaid is sometime in the future.....maybe never. When it is repaid it is at a time when (all thing being equal) the amount to be repaid is a small amount of what would be then available.
The ex-directors don't have a say whether the loans are rolled over - so none of the 7 are unilaterally holding up the deal. They do not need to be consulted.
The amount to be repaid is sometime in the future.....maybe never. When it is repaid it is at a time when (all thing being equal) the amount to be repaid is a small amount of what would be then available.
Good. Glad thats settled.
Let’s say you were buying a house and agreed to pay 200k. Just before exchange of contracts you discovered that the owner owes a family member 50k and wants you to also pay that debt back. However you can do so any time in the next ten years, whenever it’s most convenient for you. Be happy with that would you?
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Logical argument, but I suspect they set up the consortium with a few simple rules, and former directors loans may be complications that break those rules. Just a guess though.
Time they changed the rules then I would suggest.......either shit or get off the pot.
And you can tell that to GM !!
And if they changed the rules and some of the investors walked away then that would leave us where?
No different to where we are currently I would say. Some investors have (apparently) already walked away......in so much as they failed the Fit & proper test & it doesn't appear that they are troubling the scorers in trying to sort it out.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Logical argument, but I suspect they set up the consortium with a few simple rules, and former directors loans may be complications that break those rules. Just a guess though.
Time they changed the rules then I would suggest.......either shit or get off the pot.
And you can tell that to GM !!
And if they changed the rules and some of the investors walked away then that would leave us where?
No different to where we are currently I would say. Some investors have (apparently) already walked away......in so much as they failed the Fit & proper test & it doesn't appear that they are troubling the scorers in trying to sort it out.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
I really don't know if you understand the world of finance but the assets are tied up when a debenture/charge/lien is given. That is to say permission has to be given by the debenture holders when such things as leases etc are granted.
Why would anybody buying the club want that restriction, regardless of when that debt becomes due for payment.
In any case my understanding is this is not the issue holding things up so a complete red herring in any case.
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Logical argument, but I suspect they set up the consortium with a few simple rules, and former directors loans may be complications that break those rules. Just a guess though.
Time they changed the rules then I would suggest.......either shit or get off the pot.
And you can tell that to GM !!
And if they changed the rules and some of the investors walked away then that would leave us where?
No different to where we are currently I would say. Some investors have (apparently) already walked away......in so much as they failed the Fit & proper test & it doesn't appear that they are troubling the scorers in trying to sort it out.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
I really don't know if you understand the world of finance but the assets are tied up when a debenture/charge/lien is given. That is to say permission has to be given by the debenture holders when such things as leases etc are granted.
Why would anybody buying the club want that restriction, regardless of when that debt becomes due for payment.
In any case my understanding is this is not the issue holding things up so a complete red herring in any case.
The ex-directors don't have a say whether the loans are rolled over - so none of the 7 are unilaterally holding up the deal. They do not need to be consulted.
The amount to be repaid is sometime in the future.....maybe never. When it is repaid it is at a time when (all thing being equal) the amount to be repaid is a small amount of what would be then available.
Good. Glad thats settled.
Let’s say you were buying a house and agreed to pay 200k. Just before exchange of contracts you discovered that the owner owes a family member 50k and wants you to also pay that debt back. However you can do so any time in the next ten years, whenever it’s most convenient for you. Be happy with that would you?
If you were somehow guaranteed to get a massive injection of cash at the same time as having to pay that £50k, then yes I probably wouldn't mind too much.
Everyone so willing to spend future earnings . How much did it cost wolves to get to the prem and how much will it cost to stay in the prem ? Yeah you put all that money towards getting to the Prem and as well as the cost of it all and expenditure to stay there in player costs, salaries etc you get a £7m bonus to pay out . Seriously football finances are fucked it’s a miracle anyone is willing to risk spunking dough for no guarantees of making it. There are plenty of clubs who have failed and racked up the debt , plenty of clubs who have made it and racked up the debt , how many clubs are consistently running at a profit ?
And once again Golfie would you advise any of your clients to invest in a football club ??
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
I’m surprised at this I must admit, if you were my finical advisor and gave me this advice I think I would walk away, why, simply because in my opinion you haven’t thought through the all the possible scenarios. I give you one example which I personally think is a possibility, what happens if the premiership money stops rolling in, then you are left with a seven million debt to be paid say in 20 years times with no additional income to cover it? Unlikely I not sure, but the longer the debt is rolled over the greater the chances are. Just my thoughts, but I would want all the debts resolved. I’m a business man, not a financial advisor, therefore if I were to be in a position to purchase Charlton it would be with own my money and I would it safeguarded as much as possible.
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Do the ex-directors have to agree to have their loans rolled over to a new party on the same conditions (no pay until Prem) or can Roland do it unilaterally?
No they don’t have to agree. But they can make life difficult for the new owner by obstructing leases or other disposal of land and they hold the first charge - over the owner - if things go pear-shaped financially.
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Logical argument, but I suspect they set up the consortium with a few simple rules, and former directors loans may be complications that break those rules. Just a guess though.
Time they changed the rules then I would suggest.......either shit or get off the pot.
And you can tell that to GM !!
And if they changed the rules and some of the investors walked away then that would leave us where?
No different to where we are currently I would say. Some investors have (apparently) already walked away......in so much as they failed the Fit & proper test & it doesn't appear that they are troubling the scorers in trying to sort it out.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
I really don't know if you understand the world of finance but the assets are tied up when a debenture/charge/lien is given. That is to say permission has to be given by the debenture holders when such things as leases etc are granted.
Why would anybody buying the club want that restriction, regardless of when that debt becomes due for payment.
In any case my understanding is this is not the issue holding things up so a complete red herring in any case.
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Do the ex-directors have to agree to have their loans rolled over to a new party on the same conditions (no pay until Prem) or can Roland do it unilaterally?
No they don’t have to agree. But they can make life difficult for the new owner by obstructing leases or other disposal of land and they hold the first charge - over the owner - if things go pear-shaped financially.
The ex-directors don't have a say whether the loans are rolled over - so none of the 7 are unilaterally holding up the deal. They do not need to be consulted.
The amount to be repaid is sometime in the future.....maybe never. When it is repaid it is at a time when (all thing being equal) the amount to be repaid is a small amount of what would be then available.
Good. Glad thats settled.
I think we’ve known those details for some time, but it’s more a question of whether or not this issue is holding up the sale. I think it’s highly unlikely to be the only issue.
You would be only be able to borrow on equity over and above £7m, and even then a lender would not be happy with others that would hold a call on forcing closure on a deb if it went wrong. Especially as said Directors clearly show that their loyalty is not money driven.
A bank would not touch it with a barge pole. So who would buy a business that you can’t run as a business? Roland was his own bank so it did not matter to him, but normal banking would be prudent.
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Logical argument, but I suspect they set up the consortium with a few simple rules, and former directors loans may be complications that break those rules. Just a guess though.
Time they changed the rules then I would suggest.......either shit or get off the pot.
And you can tell that to GM !!
And if they changed the rules and some of the investors walked away then that would leave us where?
No different to where we are currently I would say. Some investors have (apparently) already walked away......in so much as they failed the Fit & proper test & it doesn't appear that they are troubling the scorers in trying to sort it out.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
I really don't know if you understand the world of finance but the assets are tied up when a debenture/charge/lien is given. That is to say permission has to be given by the debenture holders when such things as leases etc are granted.
Why would anybody buying the club want that restriction, regardless of when that debt becomes due for payment.
In any case my understanding is this is not the issue holding things up so a complete red herring in any case.
What is holding it up then?
New CEO is just waiting for the next DFS sale to start..
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Do the ex-directors have to agree to have their loans rolled over to a new party on the same conditions (no pay until Prem) or can Roland do it unilaterally?
No they don’t have to agree. But they can make life difficult for the new owner by obstructing leases or other disposal of land and they hold the first charge - over the owner - if things go pear-shaped financially.
I don’t personally think they are the only issue.
So if this is such a sticking point with the Aussies, shouldn't we be a bit concerned about what they intend to with the land?
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Do the ex-directors have to agree to have their loans rolled over to a new party on the same conditions (no pay until Prem) or can Roland do it unilaterally?
No they don’t have to agree. But they can make life difficult for the new owner by obstructing leases or other disposal of land and they hold the first charge - over the owner - if things go pear-shaped financially.
I don’t personally think they are the only issue.
So what are the other issues then?
Roland fell over trying to put his kecks on in his bedroom, broke his fall with his arms but fractured both wrists which are now in plaster and he can't sign the contract.
The ex-directors don't have a say whether the loans are rolled over - so none of the 7 are unilaterally holding up the deal. They do not need to be consulted.
The amount to be repaid is sometime in the future.....maybe never. When it is repaid it is at a time when (all thing being equal) the amount to be repaid is a small amount of what would be then available.
Good. Glad thats settled.
Plus whoever takes us over and gets us to the Premier League would easily afford the 7 million when the rewards would be sailing through the 150 million barrier.
The ex-directors don't have a say whether the loans are rolled over - so none of the 7 are unilaterally holding up the deal. They do not need to be consulted.
The amount to be repaid is sometime in the future.....maybe never. When it is repaid it is at a time when (all thing being equal) the amount to be repaid is a small amount of what would be then available.
Good. Glad thats settled.
Let’s say you were buying a house and agreed to pay 200k. Just before exchange of contracts you discovered that the owner owes a family member 50k and wants you to also pay that debt back. However you can do so any time in the next ten years, whenever it’s most convenient for you. Be happy with that would you?
That’s not an accurate comparison at all. It would be more accurate to say that you have to agree to pay the current owners family member £50K only after you win the jackpot on the lottery.
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Do the ex-directors have to agree to have their loans rolled over to a new party on the same conditions (no pay until Prem) or can Roland do it unilaterally?
No they don’t have to agree. But they can make life difficult for the new owner by obstructing leases or other disposal of land and they hold the first charge - over the owner - if things go pear-shaped financially.
I don’t personally think they are the only issue.
So if this is such a sticking point with the Aussies, shouldn't we be a bit concerned about what they intend to with the land?
I don't come on this thread very often. Whilst I don't know what deal the Aussies may or may not have agreed to and I don't know whose fault the delay is, BUT wouldn't you pull out of the deal given the fact that it is 29 July and RD is squeezing the club out of existence?
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Logical argument, but I suspect they set up the consortium with a few simple rules, and former directors loans may be complications that break those rules. Just a guess though.
Time they changed the rules then I would suggest.......either shit or get off the pot.
And you can tell that to GM !!
And if they changed the rules and some of the investors walked away then that would leave us where?
No different to where we are currently I would say. Some investors have (apparently) already walked away......in so much as they failed the Fit & proper test & it doesn't appear that they are troubling the scorers in trying to sort it out.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
I really don't know if you understand the world of finance but the assets are tied up when a debenture/charge/lien is given. That is to say permission has to be given by the debenture holders when such things as leases etc are granted.
Why would anybody buying the club want that restriction, regardless of when that debt becomes due for payment.
In any case my understanding is this is not the issue holding things up so a complete red herring in any case.
What is holding it up then?
RD is gonna sell all our players first to leave us in the shite! That will be his revenge!!!
For the last fecking time......the ex-director loans DO NOT have to be repaid AT ALL until we reach the Premiership. There is NO OUTLAY NOW. This figure may NEVER have to be repaid EVER if we never reach thse Premiership.
Anyone buying us now could simply take on the liability in the knowledge that they will only EVER have to find £7m when the promised land is reached & if thats in the next 5-10 years then any payment from the PL will cover this many many times over.
Furthermore. The £7m does not increase over time. It is not inflation linked. Even in 20 years time it is £7m. To me as a financial man it is a very attractive type of debt. One (or more) of the loanees may wanr repaying before then anyway (divorce/ex wife/widow/retirement) and so may want to cut a deal SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
The only negative aspect (for any new owner)is that the loanees have first charge over The Valley, which could make it harder to borrow.....but if they have their funding & 5 year plan why the need to borrow against the ground ??
To me its a no brainer. IF this is the only/main reason for the delay then I would ask why ??. By delaying the takeover for months means this season is now a write off & our best bet is that we survive relegation when a properly funded squad could challenge for promotion.
So please can we put to bed the mantra of "why should The Aussies pay this debt in addition to the purchase price". They do not have to find the £7m now.....it will not detract from any current funding....its is a red herring.
Logical argument, but I suspect they set up the consortium with a few simple rules, and former directors loans may be complications that break those rules. Just a guess though.
Time they changed the rules then I would suggest.......either shit or get off the pot.
And you can tell that to GM !!
And if they changed the rules and some of the investors walked away then that would leave us where?
No different to where we are currently I would say. Some investors have (apparently) already walked away......in so much as they failed the Fit & proper test & it doesn't appear that they are troubling the scorers in trying to sort it out.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
I really don't know if you understand the world of finance but the assets are tied up when a debenture/charge/lien is given. That is to say permission has to be given by the debenture holders when such things as leases etc are granted.
Why would anybody buying the club want that restriction, regardless of when that debt becomes due for payment.
In any case my understanding is this is not the issue holding things up so a complete red herring in any case.
What is holding it up then?
RD is gonna sell all our players first to leave us in the shite! That will be his revenge!!!
On one level, I completely agree with golf addick, who says why should the ex directors loans be an issue, given the rewards of reaching the Premiership.
On another level, I also completely see why new owners would baulk at taking on the debt on a number of different levels.
They are already over paying & Duchatelet is busy deconstructing the squad that looks like making this season a write off in terms of anything but preparing for a promotion push next season. If the settlement of ex directors loans wasn’t clear (find this difficult to believe) or goal posts moved ( more believable) it is 7 million on an already over inflated price. I would worry about the financial acumen of the new owners.
Then I am reading that the ex directors is a red herring & not the only or even main issue. It is some unstated thing that I am presuming no one can talk about due to commercial confidentiality or non disclosure agreements.
Whilst all this goes on, Duchatelet downgrades the squad & replaces stronger players with weaker ones with incomprehensible dumb player deals. The club being spun closer to league 2 than getting out of league 1.
I don't come on this thread very often. Whilst I don't know what deal the Aussies may or may not have agreed to and I don't know whose fault the delay is, BUT wouldn't you pull out of the deal given the fact that it is 29 July and RD is squeezing the club out of existence?
The theory is that Muir &co have a 5-year plan to get Charlton into the Premier League, so they are not too worried about marking time this season. If this is true it makes me doubt their knowledge of what they are doing. Firstly because of the strong possibility being deep in relegation trouble before too long, and second because football isn't predictable enough at this level to make a 5-year plan, which would presumably become a six-year plan if we go down. The Aussies don't look a good bet, but since Roland refused to speak to Reg's Kuwaitis or the Saudis they are all that we have left. If they pull out Roland will find out there is not a Lookman or a Gomez any more to balance the books, and at some point he will have to drop the price, especially if we are in L2.
Think we can all agree the way things stand at the moment nothing is going to change for the better.
We all have our reasons why the club has not changed hands but as fans we are helpless.
The ship that is Charlton has run-aground. For fans that can remember this is even worst than waiting for that container ship with the rubber onboard.
If i could have one wish it would be to get ALL parties into one room lock the door and not let anyone out until this mess was sorted out ,oneway or another…..
This has gone on too long now,deal with it .After all its our Charlton we are talking about its in our blood,its in our lives and it will go to the grave with us.
Comments
It's £7m sometime in the future, after a low probability series of events have happened. An actuary valuing this would give it a much smaller valuation, given the relatively small chance of it ever happening, and inflation eroding the "real" value of £7m.
If this is the reason the takeover has been delayed, then EVERYONE is losing, Roland, the Aussies, the ex directors, the fans. And all for what is a tiny sum of money in the bigger picture (when you consider the annual loss we make)
I don’t personally think they are the only issue.
The ex-directors don't have a say whether the loans are rolled over - so none of the 7 are unilaterally holding up the deal. They do not need to be consulted.
The amount to be repaid is sometime in the future.....maybe never. When it is repaid it is at a time when (all thing being equal) the amount to be repaid is a small amount of what would be then available.
Good. Glad thats settled.
Currently it appears to be a Mexican stand-off....and the only losers at the moment is us poor fans. We know RD doesn't give a toss. Looks like the Aussies aren't too far behind.
Why would anybody buying the club want that restriction, regardless of when that debt becomes due for payment.
In any case my understanding is this is not the issue holding things up so a complete red herring in any case.
What is holding it up then?
How much did it cost wolves to get to the prem and how much will it cost to stay in the prem ?
Yeah you put all that money towards getting to the Prem and as well as the cost of it all and expenditure to stay there in player costs, salaries etc you get a £7m bonus to pay out .
Seriously football finances are fucked it’s a miracle anyone is willing to risk spunking dough for no guarantees of making it. There are plenty of clubs who have failed and racked up the debt , plenty of clubs who have made it and racked up the debt , how many clubs are consistently running at a profit ?
And once again Golfie would you advise any of your clients to invest in a football club ??
A bank would not touch it with a barge pole. So who would buy a business that you can’t run as a business? Roland was his own bank so it did not matter to him, but normal banking would be prudent.
On another level, I also completely see why new owners would baulk at taking on the debt on a number of different levels.
They are already over paying & Duchatelet is busy deconstructing the squad that looks like making this season a write off in terms of anything but preparing for a promotion push next season. If the settlement of ex directors loans wasn’t clear (find this difficult to believe) or goal posts moved ( more believable) it is 7 million on an already over inflated price. I would worry about the financial acumen of the new owners.
Then I am reading that the ex directors is a red herring & not the only or even main issue. It is some unstated thing that I am presuming no one can talk about due to commercial confidentiality or non disclosure agreements.
Whilst all this goes on, Duchatelet downgrades the squad & replaces stronger players with weaker ones with incomprehensible dumb player deals. The club being spun closer to league 2 than getting out of league 1.
We all have our reasons why the club has not changed hands but as fans we are helpless.
The ship that is Charlton has run-aground. For fans that can remember this is even worst than waiting for that container ship with the rubber onboard.
If i could have one wish it would be to get ALL parties into one room lock the door and not let anyone out until this mess was sorted out ,oneway or another…..
This has gone on too long now,deal with it .After all its our Charlton we are talking about its in our blood,its in our lives and it will go to the grave with us.