Now, I realise for humorous effect, but you've just taken the Premiers Crus from the 1855 classification. In fact many of the Deuxièmes Crus chateaux have upped their game and are at least as good and have been called "Super Seconds" but, of course are not (quite) as expensive.
Further, the 1855 classification ignored completely Pomerol and St. Emilion. Including those appellation today in the wine equivalent of the Premier League would make things look very different. (Think how the football league looked back in the day and now think Bournemouth and Hull.)
But the whole wine buying thing is fraught with danger and disappointment. Take St. Emilion for example. A highly regarded appellation. But it has three distinct areas of terrior. It is no co-incidence that the majority of the Grand Cru class wines come from the hills around the village of St Emilion rather than up on the plateau or down on "the flats".
My suggestion for a decent wine at a decent price would be either a 2012 or a 2015 from one of the St Emilion satellite appellations of Puisseguin St. Emilion, Lussac St. Emilion, St. Georges St. Emilion or - perhaps the best as it is only separated from St. Emilion proper by a small river - Montagne St. Emilion.
Another tip for something a little different would be a Maury. This French appellation is right down on the border with Spain and produces a fortified wine very similar to Port. Laithwaites do one in half litre bottles which is inexpensive and makes for a great accompaniment for cheese.
Finally a story. My Dad had a friend who had a Chateau (a right dump as it happens) in Blaye. When he was over here once, we went out for a meal and Philippe was asked to choose a wine, which he did. When it came back, he did that sniffing thing and said "this is not the right wine". The waiter said "I can assure you it is". He replied, "No, it is the right Chateau but not the year stated in your list; it is not so good". It was very impressive but also taught a lesson that sometimes vintage is more important than Cru.
well done.
I deliberately discounted that young upstart, Mouton Rothschild, from my pool of choice!
I find wine buying and drinking fun because a bit of knowledge goes a long way. I am a bit of a fan and have been lucky enough to have been involved in the "making" (vines planted 15 years ago are just starting to bare reasonable produce in the last couple of years).
I owe much of what I know to the bods at Theatre of Wine in Greenwich, many a night spent there on the Thursday evening tastings. (this was 10 years ago mind - went for about a 10 year period from when they opened the first shop).
One rule of thumb I can say is that with certain blends you can't go wrong. It is my pet hate when someone will say e.g. "Merlot is crap, Cabernet Franc is good", when of course I can show you an awful Merlot and equally I can show you one that will fuck you "Sideways" and cook you breakfast in the morning.
There are certain wines which are guaranteed to please (unless so under-priced as to arose suspicion)
Nuits St Georges Any Pauillac Most Oregon Pinot Noirs A great majority of New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs Most Super Tuscans any Sauternes!
some buying tip - seek out a decent independent local shop. worth paying a pound more than Lidl for the knowledge and info that goes with it. equally, such a shop will give you discounts and freebies in return.
I'd be really interested to find out what ones are to avoid and what ones are encouraged.
I was a member of Virginia wines for a bit but couldn't really justify the ongoing financial commitment, a cold rioja and a smooth cabernet sauvingnon are what I err towards.
And also what wines won't give me a pounding dehydration headache. I can do that to myself with beer
I am up for putting my hand in my pocket for a decent wine that is not full of sugar and additives, where can I find such a gem?
Read reviews - lots in the Saturday and Sunday papers. Go to a quality off licence and talk to the staff. Think of joining The Wine Society - I think it's £40 for life membership and you get access to lots of wine that's made in too small quantities for the supermarkets to bother with. Look at spending the same on a bottle from an unfashionable area, e.g. Alsace, as you would from somewhere like Bordeaux and you'll probably get a better wine.
You can certainly get good wine at supermarkets but the choice is restricted to the massive producers.
Cheers mate, I know price isn't always an indicator of quality and I've heard of very decent award winning wines being sold for pence but I would like to try a wine that is going to not be filed with crap.
Any particular wines to get me started?
Nuits St Georges if you like red. Pay 15-20 a bottle retail. if you dont like it get back in touch and i will refund you your wedge sympathise with your lack of enjoyment
I shall give a bottle of nuits saint Georges a go.
It's funny, I appreciate all the advice and have drunk more than my share of vino over the years, more than a lot of it was paintstripper and chateau neuf de paps I never got the fuss about.
I'm guessing blossom hill and the other big manufacturers stuff their produce with additives and sugar given the amount of it they sell. What are the brands to avoid from an additive perspective?
Big fan of NZ sauvignon blancs. Particularly Cloudy Bay.
Personally, if I'm drinking red it has to be a spicy and full-bodied. If you're going to drink something light might as well go white. For my money, Hungerford Hill's Heavy Metal (which was made by a wine critic I believe) is about as good as it gets. It's as heavy as its name, powerful and packs a real spicy dry punch.
Living in Hong Kong pumps the prices up a bit, but I've always found that Marks & Spencers have a really good and varied selection that rarely disappoints. I have been surprised, as I'd never have considered buying wine from M&S when I lived in England. But it's become our go-to place for trying new wines without the risk of disappointment.
big brands i tend to avoid - Blossom Hill, Ernst and Julio Gallo, any supermarket finest. (disclaimer - that's personal taste and experience, if you like these then fair play to you)
big brands that are good for the price - Errazuriz, J.P Chenet.
good places in the City - Planet of the Grapes, Beadles @ Spitalfields, Vagabond also @ Spitalfields
if you like a Chateau Neuf - try and find one made by a producer called Chateau Beaucastel. CNDP is a mix of up to 13 different grape varietals, Chateau Beaucastel is the only producer that uses all 13 in its blend.
Multibuy wine offer at Tesco groceries. ... 25% Off When You Buy 6 or More Bottles of Wine or ChampagneOffer valid for delivery from 10/4/2017 until 24/4/2017.
I shall give a bottle of nuits saint Georges a go.
It's funny, I appreciate all the advice and have drunk more than my share of vino over the years, more than a lot of it was paintstripper and chateau neuf de paps I never got the fuss about.
I'm guessing blossom hill and the other big manufacturers stuff their produce with additives and sugar given the amount of it they sell. What are the brands to avoid from an additive perspective?
It really depends on your taste buds. Nuits St George is great but at £15-20, you'll be getting an entry level version. It's classic Burgundy - earthy nose (a lot of people say its smells of manure), berries, quite light bodied etc. I love Burgundy but can't stomach the prices so if I want that style I will go for a Beaujolais cru (Moulin a Vent is closest to Burgundy) or a New Zealand pinot noir. In my view you will get much more bang for your buck. However, a lot of people don't like that style of red wine at all - preferring heavier bodied wines with less fruit.
Blossom Hill and Gallo go for straightforward, often sugary tastes which appeal to a lot of people. They make the wine in massive bulk and sell it cheap. There are other big labels that do make good wines at various price levels - Cono Sur of Chile springs to mind.
I shall give a bottle of nuits saint Georges a go.
It's funny, I appreciate all the advice and have drunk more than my share of vino over the years, more than a lot of it was paintstripper and chateau neuf de paps I never got the fuss about.
I'm guessing blossom hill and the other big manufacturers stuff their produce with additives and sugar given the amount of it they sell. What are the brands to avoid from an additive perspective?
It really depends on your taste buds. Nuits St George is great but at £15-20, you'll be getting an entry level version. It's classic Burgundy - earthy nose (a lot of people say its smells of manure), berries, quite light bodied etc. I love Burgundy but can't stomach the prices so if I want that style I will go for a Beaujolais cru (Moulin a Vent is closest to Burgundy) or a New Zealand pinot noir. In my view you will get much more bang for your buck. However, a lot of people don't like that style of red wine at all - preferring heavier bodied wines with less fruit.
Blossom Hill and Gallo go for straightforward, often sugary tastes which appeal to a lot of people. They make the wine in massive bulk and sell it cheap. There are other big labels that do make good wines at various price levels - Cono Sur of Chile springs to mind.
This is it, drinking a lot of them I have noticed more and more is akin to full fat ribena. I have a taste for pinot noir and rioja but I'm struggling to find a decent one to bring me back to it. Bear in mind I'm often shopping for wine in supermarkets or the local co-op so choice is limited to the usual suspects.
That's what I'm after, a decent wine not stocked full of sugar and other accelerants and if I must hunt out the last OddBins in the county to find it I shall
Visited Montes in Conchagua Valley, Chile, a few years ago - beautiful place and they do a very decent range of wines at supermarket price levels.
I like dry rose for a treat - a good Sancerre rose is beautiful on a summer evening.
Generally I am more 'old world' - agree re Portuguese and Rioja. Also look out for Valpollicello Ripasso - much cheaper than Amarone or Barolo.
I find NZ Sauv Blanc quite overpowering... prefer an unoaked Chardonnay.
Had a beautiful Montrachet once in a Michelin Star restaurant - they served it to us in error so we got it for £40 instead of £75 (a few years back too) - the only time I have needed to beware of sediment in a bottle of white...it was gorgeous, like a tangy melted butter. Doubt that is a technical term!
I shall give a bottle of nuits saint Georges a go.
It's funny, I appreciate all the advice and have drunk more than my share of vino over the years, more than a lot of it was paintstripper and chateau neuf de paps I never got the fuss about.
I'm guessing blossom hill and the other big manufacturers stuff their produce with additives and sugar given the amount of it they sell. What are the brands to avoid from an additive perspective?
It really depends on your taste buds. Nuits St George is great but at £15-20, you'll be getting an entry level version. It's classic Burgundy - earthy nose (a lot of people say its smells of manure), berries, quite light bodied etc. I love Burgundy but can't stomach the prices so if I want that style I will go for a Beaujolais cru (Moulin a Vent is closest to Burgundy) or a New Zealand pinot noir. In my view you will get much more bang for your buck. However, a lot of people don't like that style of red wine at all - preferring heavier bodied wines with less fruit.
Blossom Hill and Gallo go for straightforward, often sugary tastes which appeal to a lot of people. They make the wine in massive bulk and sell it cheap. There are other big labels that do make good wines at various price levels - Cono Sur of Chile springs to mind.
This is it, drinking a lot of them I have noticed more and more is akin to full fat ribena. I have a taste for pinot noir and rioja but I'm struggling to find a decent one to bring me back to it. Bear in mind I'm often shopping for wine in supermarkets or the local co-op so choice is limited to the usual suspects.
That's what I'm after, a decent wine not stocked full of sugar and other accelerants and if I must hunt out the last OddBins in the county to find it I shall
Deffo join the Wine Society then. £40 to join but you get £20 off first order. Free delivery if you order 12 bottles or spend £75. Good rioja range and plenty of pinot noirs.
This is generally true for the top growths but it is still possible to get decent value in Bordeaux en primeur particularly if you go for the 4th and 5th growths, second wines and some of the better cru bourgeois (I know that doesn't exist any more) in a decent vintage e.g. Ch. Angledut. The Chinese aren't interested in those kind of wines. Zi's anti-corruption drive over the last few years should see normaility returning to the Bordeaux and Burgundy markets soon I hope.
My point wasn't so much value or quality that is affordable in Bordeaux, more that en primeur is a waste of time for most wine lovers. Yes if you love a wine, or if you tasted from barrel, buy because you desire to drink it. Doesn't matter so much if it goes up or down then, and outside first growth your unlikely to earn enough to pay for a couple of new tyres.
Angludet is a great example. An unclassified, very good Margaux. But I can get the 2010 from reliable merchants at it's release price, saving around £50 in cellaring. The 1,000s of cases many Bordeaux estates produce, are often unsold by the original wine merchant, and available on the market for years after. Sure great vintages for top cru classe might not be, or not at release price, but in recent years they have.
Others non cru classe left bankers, such as Chateaux Lannesan and Sociando Mallet are also well worth buying. Bordeaux produces so much wine there's always quality there and quite often great value above and around £10.
Burgundy is another matter. Few wine makers who own their vineyards and produce their wine will produce 1,000s of cases even at the village level. Whilst there may not be 'sensible pricing' if you want to drink a 1er or grand cru you may just have to buy on release, as it's a bugger to find after.
Finding a half decent Nuit St George for £20 is a buggerer in multiple haystacks now, whilst even 4 years ago it wasn't so tough to get drinkable 1er crus from many sites in Burgundy for 20-30. With such inelastic supplies, small ammounts at your wine merchant, and internet excitement we're buggered for Burgundy prices until something truly fucks it up be that some super-monster suzuki fly or wine catastrophy: interestingly the continued problems with oxidation a decade or so ago didn't do much long term damage..... en primeur positively helped them ignore it, deny it, then change practices, and deny it ever was anything to do with them.
Whilst I'll dabble with Bordeaux, I think I'll not buy for many a year ep in Burgundy. As someone mentioned I'll buy the odd bottle of Oregon Pinot Noir and little else: Domaine Drouhin Laurene Pinot Noir is great, owned by the Burgundian Drouhin family, and doesn't seem to have gone up hugely in 2-3 years when I can get it.
Sorry I'm going on too long but seeing a lovely £15-£17 inc bottle of overpriced weekday Hautes Cotes de Nuit go to £25+... As fun and well made it is/was, it was hard to justify the price now.....
Am I the only one here who doesn't particularly enjoy NZ whites? I find them overpriced and with a bit of a sour taste. I prefer Italian whites. I like a bit of Pinot grigio, frascsti, soave, but my all time favourite is verdicchio
I find NZSBs can vary widely. Some are just unpleasantly acidic and take zingy way too far. Some staples are reliably drinkable, but the best I have found was called Woollaston, since rebranded to Mahana. Full of fruit but not painfully sharp. Hard to find but well worth seeking out.
I'm sure you aren't alone McBobbin. It's all about people's preferences. My friend hates it so when we are out I have to have something different. She likes Albariño and now I like it too as I had to drink something different. We also drink Picpoul which is very easy to drink and less powerful then the NZSB.
Ha, laughing at the thought of @carter stumping out a score for a bottle after a lifetime of 4.99 purchases, only to discover it might stink of manure !
Another fan of NZSB, but I'm no wine officianado. If it's white or Rose then it being cold is the most important thing. Have never drunk more than 2-3 glasses of wine so never had a wine hangover, and have never really taken to red.
Will try and follow some advice on this thread though must be honest, I don't understand a bloody word in some of @cafcfan@ColinTat amd @calydon_road posts !
I paid 70 quid for a bottle of Merlot at a wedding at Raymond Blancs gaff a few years ago. Fair one, captive audience and all that and given the venue it was about the cheapest one on the menu but I was really let down by it. I've had better wines from Asda.
I could probably do with going wine tasting to properly understand what to look for in a wine. I've gone from drinking wine to get drunk, to quite liking wine but not enjoying the aftertaste or worse feeling like I've got a drill in my head the next day after sharing a bottle.
I'm going to experiment with the wine society I think. There is a wine merchants in Rochester high street I'm going to visit and learn some ropes
I think wine tastings can be dangerous. My dad woke up next to a crate of Medoc, and looking at the receipt would sooner have woken up in Vegas having married a donkey.
I'm not sure it makes sense to recommend individual wines when so much depends on personal taste, but since NZWs are much appreciated here, it's worth mentioning this small winery from the Wairau Valley. And don't take my word for it. It's a good bet that those who run the Houses of Parliament restaurants know a thing or two. That's where I encountered this, on a work event where the hosts hired the HoC restaurant. I was amazed by the instant array of minerals on the first gulp; it made an impact like no other white wine I had tried for ages (and haven't really found with other NZWs i've tried since). Thing was, I was sure I would remember the name, but of course I forgot it, and went to great lengths to track it down. I've got a feeling I put in an FOI to get the HoC menus :-) (but maybe I just wrote them a polite personal request). Pretty sure too that it was the Sauvignon we had. Anyway I was sure it was going to cost a fortune, but seems you can pick their bottles up for a tenner. I can't because I can't get them in mainland Europe. But good to know that Honourable Members are drinking well on a reasonable budget.
Barefoot Pink Moscato is one of my favourites... Was never a fan of Rose wine only drank white wine (hate Red) but since meeting my wife I love it - Had one called Bella Medella (sp) at our wedding, lovely!!
Can only be purchased online though or from a wine shop over by Hampton Court Palace
If you love La Rioja Alta or traditional Bordeaux style Rioja try Urbina. Their Crianza is about £12 with the wine society, whilst a Reserva of theirs, if you find over here, should be below £20.
Majestic Definition Rioja Reserva 2010, is made by La Rioja Alta and £10.99 if you buy 6, £13.99 otherwise.
Muga white Rioja. Awesome oaked white rioja about £10.
Anything by Zind Humbrecht in Alsace... but past their reserve level which is often their entry level: Their Calcaire's offer great value as they're often grapes from some of their best sites which have been declassified.
If you like Sauvignon try Gruner Veltliner, soooo much more elegant with some surprising flavours..... oh for the days when Tesco's used to stock this from a family producer.
If you love La Rioja Alta or traditional Bordeaux style Rioja try Urbina. Their Crianza is about £12 with the wine society, whilst a Riserva of theirs, if you find over here, should be below £20.
Majestic Definition Rioja Riserva 2010, is made by La Rioja Alta and £10.99 if you buy 6, £13.99 otherwise.
Muga white Rioja. Awesome oaked white rioja about £10.
Anything by Zind Humbrecht in Alsace... but past their reserve level which is often their entry level: Their Calcaire's offer great value as they're often grapes from some of their best sites which have been declassified.
If you like Sauvignon try Gruner Veltliner, soooo much more elegant with some surprising flavours..... oh for the days when Tesco's used to stock this from a family producer.
Good recs those. I wonder if the Majestic Rioja Alta is the same as the Wine Soc's Exhbition Riserva (same year, same producer, £13.95). If so, that's a brilliant bottle of wine for £11. I'll be heading over to West Dulwich to buy a case or two.
I find Alsation wines consistently good. Humberecht is an excellent producer. I'm a fan of Trimbach as well.
GV is a lovely white and I'm glad it's becoming more popular. Wine Society has quite a few now from £8 upwards. I also like wines from the Jura although they aren't very easy to source here.
One would guess that the Wine Society's Reserva is the same. The WS on 2009, just jumped to 2010: Must have happened in the last week or so.
Majestic's Definition Rioja 2009 was Torre des Onas and although good was a very different style. Most stores should have the Rioja Alta one; easy to tell as it has the RA embossed on the glass, and it is excellent.
Gruner Veltliner? Well each to his own. It's the staple grape of both Austrian and Czech vineyards, and as such you can get barrel-loads of cheap dross. Just as there are global barrel-loads of dross Sauvignon and Chardonnay. I am just not sure these sweeping reccos of an entire wine grape type are really helpful, although I admit I am not sure of anything clearly more helpful, other than perhaps downloading the Celler Tracker or Vivino apps. and using Hugo Johnson to double check for longer term purchases. And I do appreciate @ColinTat and @Jints detailed knowledge of Bordeaux, that's really helpful from people who have obviously put their money where their palates are :-)
I am also surprised how few people are discussing the wines they like in the context of the food they enjoy with them. Depressingly British, that.
Monsieur Prague there's great Sauvignon Blanc wines out there, especially in the Loire style. And yes there's super Sauvignon Blanc's (SB) from Marlborough, just tnt gooseberry get's a bit boring.
I remember chatting with a Master of Wine about Fumee Blanc, Mondavi's oaked style of SB. As I wasn't aware of it exactly he said, 'You know it smells like a waxy Barbour jacket'. Uhhhh. I'd tasted oaked SB before and some where say 5-10% of the wine has been in oak can be delicious - including Marlborough - but subsequent tasting of the Mondavi style... Uhhhh
That's the problem with SB. It's not a grape that gives the wine maker a variety of options, but a great mineral and elegant Sancerre is a delight: indeed as are some of the much cheaper Loire villages.
However I personally wouldn't want to drink many single varietal Cab Sauvs... whilst adding Semillon to Sauvignon makes unbelievably great dry white wines for me: I've only ever tasted affordable ones from Bordeaux - sub 20 quid - let alone the hundreds for the top ones. You're also right in that whatever you like in wine is right for you, and under a tenner loads of Marlborough SB's are better quality and value than most Old World wines.
Whilst Gruner may be over grown in your land, it makes great white wine in different styles. I've only had the clean, fresh and cheaper! But I'm off to Vienna this year and look forward to trying some aged oaked ones. I'm also off to Olomouc too, and'll stop in maybe Mikulov and wineries on the way. Any suggestions for wineries and where to stay?
Comments
I deliberately discounted that young upstart, Mouton Rothschild, from my pool of choice!
I find wine buying and drinking fun because a bit of knowledge goes a long way. I am a bit of a fan and have been lucky enough to have been involved in the "making" (vines planted 15 years ago are just starting to bare reasonable produce in the last couple of years).
I owe much of what I know to the bods at Theatre of Wine in Greenwich, many a night spent there on the Thursday evening tastings. (this was 10 years ago mind - went for about a 10 year period from when they opened the first shop).
One rule of thumb I can say is that with certain blends you can't go wrong. It is my pet hate when someone will say e.g. "Merlot is crap, Cabernet Franc is good", when of course I can show you an awful Merlot and equally I can show you one that will fuck you "Sideways" and cook you breakfast in the morning.
There are certain wines which are guaranteed to please (unless so under-priced as to arose suspicion)
Nuits St Georges
Any Pauillac
Most Oregon Pinot Noirs
A great majority of New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs
Most Super Tuscans
any Sauternes!
some buying tip - seek out a decent independent local shop. worth paying a pound more than Lidl for the knowledge and info that goes with it. equally, such a shop will give you discounts and freebies in return.
Nuits St Georges if you like red. Pay 15-20 a bottle retail. if you dont like it get back in touch and i will
refund you your wedgesympathise with your lack of enjoymentIt's funny, I appreciate all the advice and have drunk more than my share of vino over the years, more than a lot of it was paintstripper and chateau neuf de paps I never got the fuss about.
I'm guessing blossom hill and the other big manufacturers stuff their produce with additives and sugar given the amount of it they sell. What are the brands to avoid from an additive perspective?
Personally, if I'm drinking red it has to be a spicy and full-bodied. If you're going to drink something light might as well go white. For my money, Hungerford Hill's Heavy Metal (which was made by a wine critic I believe) is about as good as it gets. It's as heavy as its name, powerful and packs a real spicy dry punch.
Living in Hong Kong pumps the prices up a bit, but I've always found that Marks & Spencers have a really good and varied selection that rarely disappoints. I have been surprised, as I'd never have considered buying wine from M&S when I lived in England. But it's become our go-to place for trying new wines without the risk of disappointment.
big brands that are good for the price - Errazuriz, J.P Chenet.
if you still have a local branch of Oddbins - decent. a cut above most supermarkets. http://www.oddbins.com/marchand-tawse-nuits-st-georges-red-wine
good places in the City - Planet of the Grapes, Beadles @ Spitalfields, Vagabond also @ Spitalfields
if you like a Chateau Neuf - try and find one made by a producer called Chateau Beaucastel. CNDP is a mix of up to 13 different grape varietals, Chateau Beaucastel is the only producer that uses all 13 in its blend.
List Echo Falls to that horrible big brand list, wouldn't use it for my cooking... far too many "local" pubs use this sort of wine unfortunately.
Blossom Hill and Gallo go for straightforward, often sugary tastes which appeal to a lot of people. They make the wine in massive bulk and sell it cheap. There are other big labels that do make good wines at various price levels - Cono Sur of Chile springs to mind.
That's what I'm after, a decent wine not stocked full of sugar and other accelerants and if I must hunt out the last OddBins in the county to find it I shall
I like dry rose for a treat - a good Sancerre rose is beautiful on a summer evening.
Generally I am more 'old world' - agree re Portuguese and Rioja. Also look out for Valpollicello Ripasso - much cheaper than Amarone or Barolo.
I find NZ Sauv Blanc quite overpowering... prefer an unoaked Chardonnay.
Had a beautiful Montrachet once in a Michelin Star restaurant - they served it to us in error so we got it for £40 instead of £75 (a few years back too) - the only time I have needed to beware of sediment in a bottle of white...it was gorgeous, like a tangy melted butter. Doubt that is a technical term!
https://www.thewinesociety.com/about-join-more-about-membership
Angludet is a great example. An unclassified, very good Margaux. But I can get the 2010 from reliable merchants at it's release price, saving around £50 in cellaring. The 1,000s of cases many Bordeaux estates produce, are often unsold by the original wine merchant, and available on the market for years after. Sure great vintages for top cru classe might not be, or not at release price, but in recent years they have.
Others non cru classe left bankers, such as Chateaux Lannesan and Sociando Mallet are also well worth buying. Bordeaux produces so much wine there's always quality there and quite often great value above and around £10.
Burgundy is another matter. Few wine makers who own their vineyards and produce their wine will produce 1,000s of cases even at the village level. Whilst there may not be 'sensible pricing' if you want to drink a 1er or grand cru you may just have to buy on release, as it's a bugger to find after.
Finding a half decent Nuit St George for £20 is a buggerer in multiple haystacks now, whilst even 4 years ago it wasn't so tough to get drinkable 1er crus from many sites in Burgundy for 20-30. With such inelastic supplies, small ammounts at your wine merchant, and internet excitement we're buggered for Burgundy prices until something truly fucks it up be that some super-monster suzuki fly or wine catastrophy: interestingly the continued problems with oxidation a decade or so ago didn't do much long term damage..... en primeur positively helped them ignore it, deny it, then change practices, and deny it ever was anything to do with them.
Whilst I'll dabble with Bordeaux, I think I'll not buy for many a year ep in Burgundy. As someone mentioned I'll buy the odd bottle of Oregon Pinot Noir and little else: Domaine Drouhin Laurene Pinot Noir is great, owned by the Burgundian Drouhin family, and doesn't seem to have gone up hugely in 2-3 years when I can get it.
Sorry I'm going on too long but seeing a lovely £15-£17 inc bottle of overpriced weekday Hautes Cotes de Nuit go to £25+... As fun and well made it is/was, it was hard to justify the price now.....
Some staples are reliably drinkable, but the best I have found was called Woollaston, since rebranded to Mahana. Full of fruit but not painfully sharp. Hard to find but well worth seeking out.
I'm sure you aren't alone McBobbin. It's all about people's preferences. My friend hates it so when we are out I have to have something different. She likes Albariño and now I like it too as I had to drink something different. We also drink Picpoul which is very easy to drink and less powerful then the NZSB.
But me ... I loves it.
Another fan of NZSB, but I'm no wine officianado. If it's white or Rose then it being cold is the most important thing. Have never drunk more than 2-3 glasses of wine so never had a wine hangover, and have never really taken to red.
Will try and follow some advice on this thread though must be honest, I don't understand a bloody word in some of @cafcfan @ColinTat amd @calydon_road posts !
I could probably do with going wine tasting to properly understand what to look for in a wine. I've gone from drinking wine to get drunk, to quite liking wine but not enjoying the aftertaste or worse feeling like I've got a drill in my head the next day after sharing a bottle.
I'm going to experiment with the wine society I think. There is a wine merchants in Rochester high street I'm going to visit and learn some ropes
It was a very nice crate of Medoc to be fair.
max(W) where W = (V x A)/P
where V=volume of bottle, A=alcohol by volume and P=price
If you love La Rioja Alta or traditional Bordeaux style Rioja try Urbina. Their Crianza is about £12 with the wine society, whilst a Reserva of theirs, if you find over here, should be below £20.
Majestic Definition Rioja Reserva 2010, is made by La Rioja Alta and £10.99 if you buy 6, £13.99 otherwise.
Muga white Rioja. Awesome oaked white rioja about £10.
Anything by Zind Humbrecht in Alsace... but past their reserve level which is often their entry level: Their Calcaire's offer great value as they're often grapes from some of their best sites which have been declassified.
If you like Sauvignon try Gruner Veltliner, soooo much more elegant with some surprising flavours..... oh for the days when Tesco's used to stock this from a family producer.
I find Alsation wines consistently good. Humberecht is an excellent producer. I'm a fan of Trimbach as well.
GV is a lovely white and I'm glad it's becoming more popular. Wine Society has quite a few now from £8 upwards. I also like wines from the Jura although they aren't very easy to source here.
Majestic's Definition Rioja 2009 was Torre des Onas and although good was a very different style. Most stores should have the Rioja Alta one; easy to tell as it has the RA embossed on the glass, and it is excellent.
I am also surprised how few people are discussing the wines they like in the context of the food they enjoy with them. Depressingly British, that.
Can't go wrong
I remember chatting with a Master of Wine about Fumee Blanc, Mondavi's oaked style of SB. As I wasn't aware of it exactly he said, 'You know it smells like a waxy Barbour jacket'. Uhhhh. I'd tasted oaked SB before and some where say 5-10% of the wine has been in oak can be delicious - including Marlborough - but subsequent tasting of the Mondavi style... Uhhhh
That's the problem with SB. It's not a grape that gives the wine maker a variety of options, but a great mineral and elegant Sancerre is a delight: indeed as are some of the much cheaper Loire villages.
However I personally wouldn't want to drink many single varietal Cab Sauvs... whilst adding Semillon to Sauvignon makes unbelievably great dry white wines for me: I've only ever tasted affordable ones from Bordeaux - sub 20 quid - let alone the hundreds for the top ones. You're also right in that whatever you like in wine is right for you, and under a tenner loads of Marlborough SB's are better quality and value than most Old World wines.
Whilst Gruner may be over grown in your land, it makes great white wine in different styles. I've only had the clean, fresh and cheaper! But I'm off to Vienna this year and look forward to trying some aged oaked ones. I'm also off to Olomouc too, and'll stop in maybe Mikulov and wineries on the way. Any suggestions for wineries and where to stay?