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History question.
smudge7946
Posts: 4,131
Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
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There was a pretty good series that is based around the modern day struggle and the period of the British Mandate which includes the bombing and the hostility towards the British from the Jewish.
not sure if you can stream it anywhere but's he's the wiki page for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Promise_(2011_TV_serial)0 -
smudge7946 said:
Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
Strange to link Belsen with this bombing.smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
A lot of the Irgun and Haganah had been trained by and fought alongside the British Army, such as Moyshe Dihan (sp).
But once WW2 was over new conflicts began and sides were taken all over from the iron curtain, the civil wars in Greece and China, the start of the Vietnam war.
Palistine/Israel was another aspect of settling the new order post war, some of which were are still seeing in the middle East, the Ukraine and even Brexit.1 -
The liberation of Belsen by British and Canadaian troops was just over a year previous. I would have thought the jews would be doing the hokey cokey (or zion equivalent) down Jerusalem high street in honour of the British army, not blowing them up.Henry Irving said:smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
Strange to link Belsen with this bombing.smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
A lot of the Irgun and Haganah had been trained by and fought alongside the British Army, such as Moyshe Dihan (sp).
But once WW2 was over new conflicts began and sides were taken all over from the iron curtain, the civil wars in Greece and China, the start of the Vietnam war.
Palistine/Israel was another aspect of settling the new order post war, some of which were are still seeing in the middle East, the Ukraine and even Brexit.
Comparing this atrocity with brexit is disgusting.3 -
Do you actually know anything about the Jewish struggle for an independent state and Britains policies of the time which seriously undermined that ?smudge7946 said:
The liberation of Belsen by British and Canadaian troops was just over a year previous. I would have thought the jews would be doing the hokey cokey (or zion equivalent) down Jerusalem high street in honour of the British army, not blowing them up.Henry Irving said:smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
Strange to link Belsen with this bombing.smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
A lot of the Irgun and Haganah had been trained by and fought alongside the British Army, such as Moyshe Dihan (sp).
But once WW2 was over new conflicts began and sides were taken all over from the iron curtain, the civil wars in Greece and China, the start of the Vietnam war.
Palistine/Israel was another aspect of settling the new order post war, some of which were are still seeing in the middle East, the Ukraine and even Brexit.
Comparing this atrocity with brexit is disgusting.
If you don't, and I'm guessing you don't, I'd avoid using words like "ingratitude".3 -
Do you actually know anything about the Jewish struggle for an independent state and Britains policies of the time which seriously undermined that ?se9addick said:
The liberation of Belsen by British and Canadaian troops was just over a year previous. I would have thought the jews would be doing the hokey cokey (or zion equivalent) down Jerusalem high street in honour of the British army, not blowing them up.smudge7946 said:Henry Irving said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
Strange to link Belsen with this bombing.smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
A lot of the Irgun and Haganah had been trained by and fought alongside the British Army, such as Moyshe Dihan (sp).
But once WW2 was over new conflicts began and sides were taken all over from the iron curtain, the civil wars in Greece and China, the start of the Vietnam war.
Palistine/Israel was another aspect of settling the new order post war, some of which were are still seeing in the middle East, the Ukraine and even Brexit.
Comparing this atrocity with brexit is disgusting.
If you don't, and I'm guessing you don't, I'd avoid using words like "ingratitude".
I know very little., which is why i asked the question. I doubt very much it compares to the mass murder if the holocaust, ingratitute would be entirely correct.0 -
I know very little., which is why i asked the question. I doubt very much it compares to the mass murder if the holocaust, ingratitute would be entirely correct.smudge7946 said:
Do you actually know anything about the Jewish struggle for an independent state and Britains policies of the time which seriously undermined that ?se9addick said:
The liberation of Belsen by British and Canadaian troops was just over a year previous. I would have thought the jews would be doing the hokey cokey (or zion equivalent) down Jerusalem high street in honour of the British army, not blowing them up.smudge7946 said:Henry Irving said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
Strange to link Belsen with this bombing.smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
A lot of the Irgun and Haganah had been trained by and fought alongside the British Army, such as Moyshe Dihan (sp).
But once WW2 was over new conflicts began and sides were taken all over from the iron curtain, the civil wars in Greece and China, the start of the Vietnam war.
Palistine/Israel was another aspect of settling the new order post war, some of which were are still seeing in the middle East, the Ukraine and even Brexit.
Comparing this atrocity with brexit is disgusting.
If you don't, and I'm guessing you don't, I'd avoid using words like "ingratitude".
You need to read a bit more I think. You shouldn't expect gratitude in the circumstances of that time and that place. Much happened after the war for Jews to lose the feeling that the western powers were entirely benevolent to them.
As ever history and politics are very complicated with lots then happening in a short time.1 -
No one compared anything with Brexit.smudge7946 said:
The liberation of Belsen by British and Canadaian troops was just over a year previous. I would have thought the jews would be doing the hokey cokey (or zion equivalent) down Jerusalem high street in honour of the British army, not blowing them up.Henry Irving said:smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
Strange to link Belsen with this bombing.smudge7946 said:Can any history buffs shed some light or further information on this incident please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
I found out about it whilst surfing Wikipedia. Coming as it did just a year after the British army liberated Belsen, is the this the worst example of ingratitute in history?
RIP the 91.
A lot of the Irgun and Haganah had been trained by and fought alongside the British Army, such as Moyshe Dihan (sp).
But once WW2 was over new conflicts began and sides were taken all over from the iron curtain, the civil wars in Greece and China, the start of the Vietnam war.
Palistine/Israel was another aspect of settling the new order post war, some of which were are still seeing in the middle East, the Ukraine and even Brexit.
Comparing this atrocity with brexit is disgusting.4 -
I think the most intelligent conclusion is that the two events are completely unconnected.8
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A lot of people do not know that after the war Jewish terrorists were fighting to have the state of Isreal. It is good to ask the questions, but using the term ingratitude is not the best choice. People like Ken Livingstone have been accused of being anti-semetic not that long ago when in fact he is anti -zionist. Today people don't seem to differentiate. Understanding the difference is important and studying what happened in that period after the war is an important part of that.3
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I'm gonna guess this probably ain't one for charltonlife2
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Would ya thread anyone?ValleyGary said:I'm gonna guess this probably ain't one for charltonlife
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The bowling Green massacre?0
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Was that before or after the Atlanta attacks?mascot88 said:The bowling Green massacre?
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Stern was a bit of a wrongun (to put it mildly), on several occasions he tried to make contact with Germany to offer an aliance with the Nazis - that's right, a Jew trying to form an aliance with Nazi Germany. He thought that offering to fight the British in exchange for Hitler allowing Europe's Jews to migrate to Palestine would be a goer, unsurprisingly Hitler never responded and continued to slaughter Jews (and everything else in their path) with impunity meanwhile Stern's fight against the British diverted resources which could have been used to fight the Germans to Palestine.theeenorth said:0 -
That is mad. They were actively targeting the British during WW2. At his time i stock to my original assessment. INGRATITUDE.theeenorth said:0 -
There is a difference between being a Zionist and a Jew. A zionist wanted and now supports the state of Israel. A Jew is a more complex definition. It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.
These terrorists were not representing all Jews. Haredi jews object to the state of Israel for instance. Ok they are the minority, but you can't accuse all Jews of ingratitude.
We now have a situation though where if you are critical of Israel you are deemed to be anti-semetic. This is lazy and incorrect. Also, you could say that the primary objective in WW2 was not to liberate the Jews. It was a by product of our war with Germany. Yes we liberated the camps at the end of the war but could we have done more. Churchill was a supporter of the Jews to be fair, but there is reason for debate based on archive evidence. I don't know enough to say one way or the other. Maybe I need to find out to inform a view.5 -
Exactly mutley you should be careful limping everyone into one basket. My wife is Jewish and therefore my kids could make a credible argument to be Jewish. She explained to me that judaiism is a religion, a culture and a race. You don't have to be religious to be Jewish, or follow any practices. But there are so many practices and beliefs within judaiism that you cannot generalise. it's like saying all Christians are the same.0
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Of course it is easier just to get angry and not take the trouble to understand the truth and be willing to change your view when evidence dictates. I commend the original poster for asking the question though. We should always ask the questions and seek the answers.
Do you remember when Ken Livingstone was kicked out of the Labour party for being anti-semetic recently? Now whatever your political view of him, it is very interesting. What got him into trouble was that he stated a point of fact. Before the final solution, Hitler's view was to ship out all the Jews to their own state. LIvingstone never said Hitler was a lover of the Jews or a Zionist - but that this policy could have been seen as pro zionist.
He was accused of being an anti-semite and Nazi apologist but he was neither. If there are no go areas in history that you are not allowed to make an informed comment about, it is a sad inditement of our society. Ken Livingstone has always maintained he is pro-Jewish and has the same levels of disgust for what the Nazi's did as any reasonable person should. The biggest critics of him were people in his own party so this is not a party political point.2 -
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Any chance you could stop making the offensive false equivalence between the liberation of the Nazi concentration camps and the events that led to the creation of Israel?smudge7946 said:
That is mad. They were actively targeting the British during WW2. At his time i stock to my original assessment. INGRATITUDE.theeenorth said:
Do you consider ISIS as ungrateful because we helped liberate the Muslims of Kosovo?2 -
I know little about it but having watched the series that I put up earlier I have to say it seemed to me that though the British had good intentions the way we carried them out was in a typical British bumbling way, very amateur without really considering the complexes at work. the whole process effected the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Patience was running out with the Israelis who just wanted rid of us and rid of the Palestinians. we wanted to protect the Palestinians and try to create this country with as little upheaval as possible. call it naïve but we were trying to do the right thing.
as the terrorism stepped up most in the British army wanted to get away (having just been through a world war themselves) and so rushed the process, (similar to the India partition) giving the Israelis alot of what they wanted and moving Palestinians away from their homes as quickly as they could.
this is from a series I saw over 5 years ago on a subject i knew nothing previous about so I've probably missed a lot as with anything like this as there are many sides and many stories to consider but that above is what I could make out from the series.
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You're making yourself look very ignorant (that's putting it politely).smudge7946 said:
That is mad. They were actively targeting the British during WW2. At his time i stock to my original assessment. INGRATITUDE.theeenorth said:
The bombing of the hotel, which initially sparked your bizarre statement that this was a sign of "ingratitude", was conducted by the Irgun who supported the British during the war - joined the British army in their thousands, fought overseas and hunted down Lehi, a group that you've literally just read about.
You clearly know nothing about this time in history other than Belsen was liberated by the British and that Israel is a Jewish nation. I'd suggest you read more before you accuse people who were fighting for the right to exist of ingratitude.1 -
It is important not to answer the question in your own mind before you have gained all the facts. Hopefully the original poster and others will research further then their opinions on this subject will be enhanced and better informed. I certainly intend to do so as whilst I know a little, I do not know a lot.se9addick said:
You're making yourself look very ignorant (that's putting it politely).smudge7946 said:
That is mad. They were actively targeting the British during WW2. At his time i stock to my original assessment. INGRATITUDE.theeenorth said:
The bombing of the hotel, which initially sparked your bizarre statement that this was a sign of "ingratitude", was conducted by the Irgun who supported the British during the war - joined the British army in their thousands, fought overseas and hunted down Lehi, a group that you've literally just read about.
You clearly know nothing about this time in history other than Belsen was liberated by the British and that Israel is a Jewish nation. I'd suggest you read more before you accuse people who were fighting for the right to exist of ingratitude.1 -
Yes.newyorkaddick said:
Any chance you could stop making the offensive false equivalence between the liberation of the Nazi concentration camps and the events that led to the creation of Israel?smudge7946 said:
That is mad. They were actively targeting the British during WW2. At his time i stock to my original assessment. INGRATITUDE.theeenorth said:
Do you consider ISIS as ungrateful because we helped liberate the Muslims of Kosovo?0 -
Thanks for the replies.
Its nice to know that Jews are so diverse. Everyone loves diversity.
Surely they could all unite against the crime that was the holocaust and not commit terrorist acts against there liberators and then imply it was the fault of the British years later when they unveiled a plaque.
Is where holocaust deniers come from? Although I never considered myself one, I do find it hard to equate the mass murder that ended in 1945 with the King David hotel bombing a year later.
How do the diverse Jewish population give thanks to the allied forces?
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This discussion has been closed.
