It's interesting watching the video at 0.25 speed.
Having miscontrolled the ball from his chest, the ball is loose and Byrne and his opponent are running at each other head on. Both players are committed and challenge each with their foot raised, but the opponent is first to the ball by a split-second.
Despite what the full speed video implies, from this camera angle it's inconclusive whether Byrne has made any significant contact with his outstretched foot which appears to go well past the leg of the Fleetwood player.
I am not saying he hasn't made any contact, just that it seems inconclusive at 0.25 second speed from this angle.
Immediately afterwards while still both running, there is physical body collision between the 2 players as the Fleetwood player flings an elbow which appears to strike Byrne. Both players then tumble to the ground, with the opponent rolling around.
It would be interesting to see the incident from another camera angle.
It's interesting watching the video at 0.25 speed.
Having miscontrolled the ball from his chest, the ball is loose and Byrne and his opponent are running at each other head on. Both players are committed and challenge each with their foot raised, but the opponent is first to the ball by a split-second.
Despite what the full speed video implies, from this camera angle it's inconclusive whether Byrne has made any significant contact with his outstretched foot which appears to go well past the leg of the Fleetwood player.
I am not saying he hasn't made any contact, just that it seems inconclusive at 0.25 second speed from this angle.
Immediately afterwards while still both running, there is physical body collision between the 2 players as the Fleetwood player flings an elbow which appears to strike Byrne. Both players then tumble to the ground, with the opponent rolling around.
It would be interesting to see the incident from another camera angle.
For these two reasons I feel it should have been a yellow... Had the potential to be nasty but as we saw against Millwall when we scored, decisions shouldnt be given because of the potential, they got to be given for what happens!!
As already said; Ricky Holmes' challenge was plain nasty and deserved his yellow card... Shame to see their player go off injured.
Although I was sitting in the West, I said immediately (to no one in particular) that it would be a red card. Definitely a lunge.
Having seen the footage, it's 100% nailed on.
I also agree with @Henry Irving I thought Holmes challenge was reckless and could have resulted in him being red carded as well.
On the wider question of the number of red cards, I think the team are playing for the manager and the shirt - something that hasn't always been the case. Now to add discipline in their play.....
His leg is up but he makes no contact. Their player makes a meal of it.
I am sure the referees on here would know better but I don't believe that contact is necessary for it to be a red card.
We talk about how rubbish the referees in this league are but how on earth did Juan Matta stay on the pitch v Leicester? If that was a yellow so was Byrnes, but in fact both should have been a red.
The slow motion footage is quite revealing though.
It's a 50-50 ball and both the opponent and Byrne are running head on towards each other, both fully committed, eyes on the ball and both with a foot raised in the challenge. There's no way either player can pull out of the challenge in time (and do physically collide ) but for a split-second, it could easily have been Byrne himself caught by the foot raised by his opponent.
Both players here were reckless in the challenge - but once committed, momentum would mean neither player could pull out in time.
the last three red cards could and should have been avoided .. Page panicked and went into the Bolton player totally out of control .. Tex was petulant and fell for Morison's wind up tactics and Byrne I feel was a bit nasty and peeved at losing control of the ball in a decent position ...
all very well for players to be competitive and to get stuck in, but they must try to maintain their composure and professionalism especially when under pressure
the last three red cards could and should have been avoided .. Page panicked and went into the Bolton player totally out of control .. Tex was petulant and fell for Morison's wind up tactics and Byrne I feel was a bit nasty and peeved at losing control of the ball in a decent position ...
all very well for players to be competitive and to get stuck in, but they must try to maintain their composure and professionalism especially when under pressure
3rd no contact and genuine attempt. 2nd he took one for the boys. 1st was a silly reaction but who hasn't?
the last three red cards could and should have been avoided .. Page panicked and went into the Bolton player totally out of control .. Tex was petulant and fell for Morison's wind up tactics and Byrne I feel was a bit nasty and peeved at losing control of the ball in a decent position ...
all very well for players to be competitive and to get stuck in, but they must try to maintain their composure and professionalism especially when under pressure
It doesn't seem to me that Byrne was "a bit nasty" - reckless, yes but no more than the opponent, who was equally reckless. Just 2 players giving 100%, running head on towards each other at speed, eyes on the ball.
One player was always going to miss out by a split-second.
the last three red cards could and should have been avoided .. Page panicked and went into the Bolton player totally out of control .. Tex was petulant and fell for Morison's wind up tactics and Byrne I feel was a bit nasty and peeved at losing control of the ball in a decent position ...
all very well for players to be competitive and to get stuck in, but they must try to maintain their composure and professionalism especially when under pressure
It doesn't seem to me that Byrne was "a bit nasty" - reckless, yes but no more than the opponent, who was equally reckless. Just 2 players giving 100%, running head on towards each other at speed, eyes on the ball.
One player was always going to miss out by a split-second.
you see it as you see it .. I wasn't there but have watched it a few times on the screen .. the more I see it, the more it looks as though Byrne followed through with some intent after the ball had gone ..
the last three red cards could and should have been avoided .. Page panicked and went into the Bolton player totally out of control .. Tex was petulant and fell for Morison's wind up tactics and Byrne I feel was a bit nasty and peeved at losing control of the ball in a decent position ...
all very well for players to be competitive and to get stuck in, but they must try to maintain their composure and professionalism especially when under pressure
It doesn't seem to me that Byrne was "a bit nasty" - reckless, yes but no more than the opponent, who was equally reckless. Just 2 players giving 100%, running head on towards each other at speed, eyes on the ball.
One player was always going to miss out by a split-second.
you see it as you see it .. I wasn't there but have watched it a few times on the screen .. the more I see it, the more it looks as though Byrne followed through with some intent after the ball had gone ..
Fair enough, Lincs. That's what it looks like at normal speed. In slow motion, however, it's not even certain that Byrne made contact at all, as his foot went well past the opponent.
One of my points is that both players were hell bent committed to reach the ball, and with that momentum, neither player could avoid impact. The challenge was reckless by both players, both players led with a foot raised - but they weren't looking at each other, both only focused on the ball.
In that split-second, Byrne wouldn't have had time to consciously "follow through with some intent after the ball had gone". But, nevertheless, it was a reckless challenge by both players.
From the north end of the upper west it looked like a terrible decision. From our angle it looked like NB only had eyes for the ball and the Fleetwood chap ran through him and his effort to get to the ball. From the tv camera up in the east stand it was clear it was a cowardly, over-the-ball, boot in the shin/knee area for which a violent conduct dismissal and automatic 3 match ban is entirely appropriate. Not good at all and utterly indefensible. Brainless by NB, just as JB is back and he sorts out the 'too many loan players for a matchday squad' issue for KR's selection decisions, 3 games unavailable could see NB without a sniff of making an appearance until another loanee is injured or suspended. Berk
From the north end of the upper west it looked like a terrible decision. From our angle it looked like NB only had eyes for the ball and the Fleetwood chap ran through him and his effort to get to the ball. From the tv camera up in the east stand it was clear it was a cowardly, over-the-ball, boot in the shin/knee area for which a violent conduct dismissal and automatic 3 match ban is entirely appropriate. Not good at all and utterly indefensible. Brainless by NB, just as JB is back and he sorts out the 'too many loan players for a matchday squad' issue for KR's selection decisions, 3 games unavailable could see NB without a sniff of making an appearance until another loanee is injured or suspended. Berk
The other game should be banned as well then. He leg was raised as well.
We are always biased towards our club - if you get mixed opinions you can work out the ref probably made the right call. Stroud made a terrible call and deserves to be punished for it!
Player Byrne tackled really made a fuss of it. Did he manage to limp into the team coach OK? Will he be playing in their next game. Too much cheating going on at the moment Doesn't seem to be a man's game anymore!
Player Byrne tackled really made a fuss of it. Did he manage to limp into the team coach OK? Will he be playing in their next game. Too much cheating going on at the moment Doesn't seem to be a man's game anymore!
Like Holmes fecking swan dive to get a cheap free kick and then hacking the same defender he tried to mug off and taking him out the game. It's even worse when your own team players try it on.
Player Byrne tackled really made a fuss of it. Did he manage to limp into the team coach OK? Will he be playing in their next game. Too much cheating going on at the moment Doesn't seem to be a man's game anymore!
One thing is for sure. I would have refused to shake that Fleetwood player's hand afterwards. I don't shake hands with cheats. For an opponent to recieve a handshake they have to earn it through fair play and what he did is not fai play. I am sorry.
Having looked at it one more time and I think it's unfair to call it wreckless. I think it was an honest attempt to get the ball. But their lad gets there a split second earlier. Byrne's leg is high but barely touches their lad who makes a meal of it. It's easy to see why a ref might give a red in real time. But I think the suitable punishment would be a 1 match ban as I feel there was no intent and the was accidental. Byrne was unlucky to foul him. However we know the FA are very stubborn when it comes to things like that. They don't look at all the facts at the time.
Furthermore fans moaning about him going in for that challenge in the first place would have been a lot more annoyed and even more if their lad haf broke away and they would have hit a winning goal. Everyone would have slated him for pulling out the tackle. He was right to take the risk.
the last three red cards could and should have been avoided .. Page panicked and went into the Bolton player totally out of control .. Tex was petulant and fell for Morison's wind up tactics and Byrne I feel was a bit nasty and peeved at losing control of the ball in a decent position ...
all very well for players to be competitive and to get stuck in, but they must try to maintain their composure and professionalism especially when under pressure
It doesn't seem to me that Byrne was "a bit nasty" - reckless, yes but no more than the opponent, who was equally reckless. Just 2 players giving 100%, running head on towards each other at speed, eyes on the ball.
One player was always going to miss out by a split-second.
'Reckless' is the definition of a yellow card, in this case it would have been 'excessive force' that got him the red... and I don't think there's any real argument against that from Byrne having watched the replay.
As soon as he miscontrolled it he was in cards territory. In real-time I expected a red just because of how hard he appeared to catch him - but thought it was a bit unfortunate, because as some people said it was just two players going in full-blooded as you'd want them too and Byrne arriving a bit late to the party. On the highlights it looks a bit high as well.
Either way, in my opinion (as a qualified referee, and therefore nonce), 'excessive force' - red card - open & shut case.
Comments
It's interesting watching the video at 0.25 speed.
Having miscontrolled the ball from his chest, the ball is loose and Byrne and his opponent are running at each other head on.
Both players are committed and challenge each with their foot raised, but the opponent is first to the ball by a split-second.
Despite what the full speed video implies, from this camera angle it's inconclusive whether Byrne has made any significant contact with his outstretched foot which appears to go well past the leg of the Fleetwood player.
I am not saying he hasn't made any contact, just that it seems inconclusive at 0.25 second speed from this angle.
Immediately afterwards while still both running, there is physical body collision between the 2 players as the Fleetwood player flings an elbow which appears to strike Byrne.
Both players then tumble to the ground, with the opponent rolling around.
It would be interesting to see the incident from another camera angle.
As already said; Ricky Holmes' challenge was plain nasty and deserved his yellow card... Shame to see their player go off injured.
Having seen the footage, it's 100% nailed on.
I also agree with @Henry Irving I thought Holmes challenge was reckless and could have resulted in him being red carded as well.
On the wider question of the number of red cards, I think the team are playing for the manager and the shirt - something that hasn't always been the case. Now to add discipline in their play.....
We talk about how rubbish the referees in this league are but how on earth did Juan Matta stay on the pitch v Leicester? If that was a yellow so was Byrnes, but in fact both should have been a red.
It's a 50-50 ball and both the opponent and Byrne are running head on towards each other, both fully committed, eyes on the ball and both with a foot raised in the challenge.
There's no way either player can pull out of the challenge in time (and do physically collide ) but for a split-second, it could easily have been Byrne himself caught by the foot raised by his opponent.
Both players here were reckless in the challenge - but once committed, momentum would mean neither player could pull out in time.
Page panicked and went into the Bolton player totally out of control .. Tex was petulant and fell for Morison's wind up tactics and Byrne I feel was a bit nasty and peeved at losing control of the ball in a decent position ...
all very well for players to be competitive and to get stuck in, but they must try to maintain their composure and professionalism especially when under pressure
Just 2 players giving 100%, running head on towards each other at speed, eyes on the ball.
One player was always going to miss out by a split-second.
In slow motion, however, it's not even certain that Byrne made contact at all, as his foot went well past the opponent.
One of my points is that both players were hell bent committed to reach the ball, and with that momentum, neither player could avoid impact.
The challenge was reckless by both players, both players led with a foot raised - but they weren't looking at each other, both only focused on the ball.
In that split-second, Byrne wouldn't have had time to consciously "follow through with some intent after the ball had gone".
But, nevertheless, it was a reckless challenge by both players.
Never would happen as when a team is reduced to six, the match is abandoned.
***removes pedant hat***
Did he manage to limp into the team coach OK?
Will he be playing in their next game.
Too much cheating going on at the moment
Doesn't seem to be a man's game anymore!
One thing is for sure. I would have refused to shake that Fleetwood player's hand afterwards. I don't shake hands with cheats. For an opponent to recieve a handshake they have to earn it through fair play and what he did is not fai play. I am sorry.
Furthermore fans moaning about him going in for that challenge in the first place would have been a lot more annoyed and even more if their lad haf broke away and they would have hit a winning goal. Everyone would have slated him for pulling out the tackle. He was right to take the risk.
As soon as he miscontrolled it he was in cards territory. In real-time I expected a red just because of how hard he appeared to catch him - but thought it was a bit unfortunate, because as some people said it was just two players going in full-blooded as you'd want them too and Byrne arriving a bit late to the party. On the highlights it looks a bit high as well.
Either way, in my opinion (as a qualified referee, and therefore nonce), 'excessive force' - red card - open & shut case.