I think hiring Lee Bowyer to influence Charlton's teenagers is a terrible idea.
He went through a pretty stupid period.....I'm sure he looks back at it with a good deal of embarrassment and doesn't need reminding of. He was always a very good professional in every other way, other than being an overtly dopey teenager on a couple of occasions. Something I'm sure many of us can lay claim to. His bad experience of getting into trouble, for all you know, may well be something that he can use(if required) in some way to pass on to young players as something to watch out for, and the damage it can do to ones reputation.
Paul Walsh aside he's the best teenager I've ever seen
Tough call for me, but then again I saw the likes of Hinton and Bonds but leaving all the animosity aside over his departure to Chelsea, it's Parker for me.
Saw Bowyer score at shithurst in front of their new two tier stand which had just been built and always referred to by me, if I happen to be in the comoany of a Nigel, as the 'Lee Bowyer' stand (even though it was not the first goal that end scored by an away team 95/96 IIRC) .
i was there. It was a very good goal.
At the time, I was working for a local magazine so got a press ticket to lots of away games. My son was just over a year old and had been coming with me since he was nine days old. He always behaved impeccably except for that day at Shithurst. Every time I put him in sight of the pitch, he screamed his head off, so I had to spend nearly the whole game running back and forth between the press bar where I left him and the press box so I could report on at least part of the game.
He was on loan at Norwich and he came on leaps and bounds because he could not break into a Premiership first team. The rest is history.
Norwich thanx couldn't remember
I think he went to the FA School of Excellence. I cannot remember Curbs words, but the impression he gave was that he was not the player he was on return.
He was on loan at Norwich and he came on leaps and bounds because he could not break into our Premiership first team initially. Still our best youth product IMO. The rest is history.
Yes, but was he still a teenager when he got back from Norwich. My recollection which could be wrong was he was 20 by the time he played for Charlton. Did you actually see him play as a teenager? In any event as a teenager,for me it would be a choice between Walsh, Bowyer or maybe the marvellous Paul Marcellous Elliott. (Must go and add that to the footballers names thread.)
Top player, i remember the cup game @ Selhurst, he was off the charts at this game. Shame not many of us saw it. I remember Vinne Jones giving him a tough time and Lee replying in kind with Vinnie on the floor We need some real midfield backbone like that now.....http://www.11v11.com/matches/wimbledon-v-charlton-athletic-19-september-1995-32981/
Talk to any ex professional and they will speak very highly of Lee Bowyer. We've all made mistakes and he has learnt from his without a shadow of a doubt
He was on loan at Norwich and he came on leaps and bounds because he could not break into our Premiership first team initially. Still our best youth product IMO. The rest is history.
Yes, but was he still a teenager when he got back from Norwich. My recollection which could be wrong was he was 20 by the time he played for Charlton. Did you actually see him play as a teenager? In any event as a teenager,for me it would be a choice between Walsh, Bowyer or maybe the marvellous Paul Marcellous Elliott. (Must go and add that to the footballers names thread.)
Yes I did see him play as a teenager as a 15 year old actually over at the training ground and he made his debut aged 17 albeit as a sub as this extract from Wiki confirms;
After graduating from Lilleshall, Parker signed for Charlton Athletic as a trainee and made his first team debut as a substitute against Bury in the First Division on 23 August 1997, a match which ended 0–0.[3] He signed his first professional contract with the club two months later.[3] Over the next couple of years he made only a few sporadic substitute appearances for Charlton, although he was one of the brightest prospects in English football. In October 2000, Charlton, then in the Premier League, loaned Parker to First Division club Norwich City[5] for two months to give the England under-21 international some first team experience. At Norwich he scored once against Sheffield Wednesday.[6] On his return to The Valley, Parker was immediately called into the first team to replace injured captain Mark Kinsella.[citation needed] Parker played so well for Charlton that, upon his return from injury, Kinsella could not regain his place in the starting line-up.
Not sure whether he played regularly in the first team as a teenager is relevant though, he was a product of our youth set up and that's the criteria he fulfils for me. Just because you may break through earlier doesn't make you a better player by comparison.
Top player, i remember the cup game @ Selhurst, he was off the charts at this game. Shame not many of us saw it. I remember Vinne Jones giving him a tough time and Lee replying in kind with Vinnie on the floor We need some real midfield backbone like that now.....http://www.11v11.com/matches/wimbledon-v-charlton-athletic-19-september-1995-32981/
Our team line-up is totally British. If we don't play Ulvestad, will that be the case tomorrow?
The return game was pretty good, too. If memory serves, it was 3-2 to them at full time so people though we'd won on away goals, but that only came in to effect after extra time. We got another in the extra 30 so ran out 8-7 winners on aggregate.
I think hiring Lee Bowyer to influence Charlton's teenagers is a terrible idea.
He went through a pretty stupid period.....I'm sure he looks back at it with a good deal of embarrassment and doesn't need reminding of. He was always a very good professional in every other way, other than being an overtly dopey teenager on a couple of occasions. Something I'm sure many of us can lay claim to. His bad experience of getting into trouble, for all you know, may well be something that he can use(if required) in some way to pass on to young players as something to watch out for, and the damage it can do to ones reputation.
It's all about opinion of course. And I share your opinion of Lee Bowyer as a fantastically talented young footballer. He had absolutely everything you could wish for in a central midfielder: great on the ball, a dominating ball-winner, huge range of passing and (maybe this is with rose-tinted glasses) I seem to remember he was pretty quick too. I can't think of any other players in the squad at the time that you would put in the team list ahead of him.
But, as someone hired to influence young Charlton footballers, I can't think of a worse candidate in the time I have been a supporter. As a teenage footballer at Charlton, off the pitch he is probably best remembered for three things. Taking drugs (which resulted in him being dropped from an England squad). A racist, disgusting, cowardly attack at a McDonalds. And securing a big-money move to Leeds United.
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that taking drugs - while they are signed to Charlton - is in anyway acceptable. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he did it and end up earning millions and playing for England".
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that racist abuse and violence is anything other than abhorrent. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he only got a fine...".
And I don't want Charlton players to have any more reason than they already have to think "well, if I get my head down, I can get away from Charlton as soon as possible and go and play for a "big club"".
I think hiring Lee Bowyer to influence Charlton's teenagers is a terrible idea.
He went through a pretty stupid period.....I'm sure he looks back at it with a good deal of embarrassment and doesn't need reminding of. He was always a very good professional in every other way, other than being an overtly dopey teenager on a couple of occasions. Something I'm sure many of us can lay claim to. His bad experience of getting into trouble, for all you know, may well be something that he can use(if required) in some way to pass on to young players as something to watch out for, and the damage it can do to ones reputation.
It's all about opinion of course. And I share your opinion of Lee Bowyer as a fantastically talented young footballer. He had absolutely everything you could wish for in a central midfielder: great on the ball, a dominating ball-winner, huge range of passing and (maybe this is with rose-tinted glasses) I seem to remember he was pretty quick too. I can't think of any other players in the squad at the time that you would put in the team list ahead of him.
But, as someone hired to influence young Charlton footballers, I can't think of a worse candidate in the time I have been a supporter. As a teenage footballer at Charlton, off the pitch he is probably best remembered for three things. Taking drugs (which resulted in him being dropped from an England squad). A racist, disgusting, cowardly attack at a McDonalds. And securing a big-money move to Leeds United.
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that taking drugs - while they are signed to Charlton - is in anyway acceptable. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he did it and end up earning millions and playing for England".
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that racist abuse and violence is anything other than abhorrent. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he only got a fine...".
And I don't want Charlton players to have any more reason than they already have to think "well, if I get my head down, I can get away from Charlton as soon as possible and go and play for a "big club"".
Tough one as by that reasoning ex gang members that go into schools to mentor youth and ex jihadis who have seen the error of their ways and now educate against it should be prohibited from such roles?
Surely more authentic for someone who's had a troubled past and donne some abhorrent things to teach others of the error of their ways than someone who has no worldly experience of being an utter Berkshire hunt?
Never liked Bowyer and don't even know if he's repentent for his fuckwittery as a younger man but lots of people do bad stuff as youngsters and can give insight to others about not making the same mistakes when they mature.
I think hiring Lee Bowyer to influence Charlton's teenagers is a terrible idea.
He went through a pretty stupid period.....I'm sure he looks back at it with a good deal of embarrassment and doesn't need reminding of. He was always a very good professional in every other way, other than being an overtly dopey teenager on a couple of occasions. Something I'm sure many of us can lay claim to. His bad experience of getting into trouble, for all you know, may well be something that he can use(if required) in some way to pass on to young players as something to watch out for, and the damage it can do to ones reputation.
It's all about opinion of course. And I share your opinion of Lee Bowyer as a fantastically talented young footballer. He had absolutely everything you could wish for in a central midfielder: great on the ball, a dominating ball-winner, huge range of passing and (maybe this is with rose-tinted glasses) I seem to remember he was pretty quick too. I can't think of any other players in the squad at the time that you would put in the team list ahead of him.
But, as someone hired to influence young Charlton footballers, I can't think of a worse candidate in the time I have been a supporter. As a teenage footballer at Charlton, off the pitch he is probably best remembered for three things. Taking drugs (which resulted in him being dropped from an England squad). A racist, disgusting, cowardly attack at a McDonalds. And securing a big-money move to Leeds United.
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that taking drugs - while they are signed to Charlton - is in anyway acceptable. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he did it and end up earning millions and playing for England".
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that racist abuse and violence is anything other than abhorrent. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he only got a fine...".
And I don't want Charlton players to have any more reason than they already have to think "well, if I get my head down, I can get away from Charlton as soon as possible and go and play for a "big club"".
Tough one as by that reasoning ex gang members that go into schools to mentor youth and ex jihadis who have seen the error of their ways and now educate against it should be prohibited from such roles?
Surely more authentic for someone who's had a troubled past and donne some abhorrent things to teach others of the error of their ways than someone who has no worldly experience of being an utter Berkshire hunt?
Never liked Bowyer and don't even know if he's repentent for his fuckwittery as a younger man but lots of people do bad stuff as youngsters and can give insight to others about not making the same mistakes when they mature.
Totally accept your point. Someone who has had a troubled time, but turned their life round and can be a great role model.
Is Lee Bowyer an articulate, persuasive public speaker? Is he an eloquent, lucid mentor? Has he demonstrated an undiscovered talent as a compelling counsellor? I don't know.
But I do know that he was a violent thug, fined for an unprovoked racist attack on an innocent person; a negligent professional footballer with a destructive attitude to drugs; and a disloyal and selfish player who took the very first opportunity to leave, for as much money as he could get, as soon as he could go. All while he was still a teenager.
I wouldn't invite Dean Chandler or Jamie Stuart back to lecture players on healthy lifestyle. I wouldn't have invited Jimmy Gauld to advise players on where, when and on which sports events to gamble. I wouldn't invite Richard Rufus to offer financial planning advice to players. And I certainly wouldn't invite Lee Bowyer to advise on how a teenage footballer at Charlton should behave.
Parker for me. Old enough to see Paul Walsh, Robert Lee and Lee Bowyer come through but Scottie P gets my vote. Joe Gomez has amazing potential as well.
Talk to any ex professional and they will speak very highly of Lee Bowyer. We've all made mistakes and he has learnt from his without a shadow of a doubt
I think hiring Lee Bowyer to influence Charlton's teenagers is a terrible idea.
He went through a pretty stupid period.....I'm sure he looks back at it with a good deal of embarrassment and doesn't need reminding of. He was always a very good professional in every other way, other than being an overtly dopey teenager on a couple of occasions. Something I'm sure many of us can lay claim to. His bad experience of getting into trouble, for all you know, may well be something that he can use(if required) in some way to pass on to young players as something to watch out for, and the damage it can do to ones reputation.
I think that Robinson's idea of bringing in ex-players in for ad hoc training sessions sounds good. It's certainly imaginative and I thought the explanation he offered at yesterday's press conference was pretty persuasive.
It is likely to be a bit frenetic and physical tomorrow. Perhaps Lee Bowyer can also offer Konsa and Aribo some advice on how not to get sent off against Millwall, although happily Rhino Stevens followed suit in that game a little later. Alex Rae isn't playing tomorrow but I'm sure they have other wind up merchants who will be more than happy to exploit a youngster's rush of blood to the head.
His positioning and reading of the game as a teenager was what stood out for me. Often starting a move from deep and arriving in the box to finish it off. Played over 50 games in one season as a 17/18 year old too.
Joe gomez as most talented teenager for me, parker didn't come good til he hit his 20's iirc. Wasnt old enough to see bowyer, but gomez was always so ridiculously relaxed for a 17 year old it was always like he was never out of 3rd gear.
Maybe but just as I don't give a toss how funny/chatty/upbeat/gobby Robinson is just as long as he wins games I don't care if Bowyer is any good in front of a camera.
If he's a decent coach and role model then stuff his media profile. He's said he doesn't want to be a manager and maybe that's one of the reasons why.
Comments
He was always a very good professional in every other way, other than being an overtly dopey teenager on a couple of occasions. Something I'm sure many of us can lay claim to.
His bad experience of getting into trouble, for all you know, may well be something that he can use(if required) in some way to pass on to young players as something to watch out for, and the damage it can do to ones reputation.
At the time, I was working for a local magazine so got a press ticket to lots of away games. My son was just over a year old and had been coming with me since he was nine days old. He always behaved impeccably except for that day at Shithurst. Every time I put him in sight of the pitch, he screamed his head off, so I had to spend nearly the whole game running back and forth between the press bar where I left him and the press box so I could report on at least part of the game.
In any event as a teenager,for me it would be a choice between Walsh, Bowyer or maybe the marvellous Paul Marcellous Elliott. (Must go and add that to the footballers names thread.)
Was overlooked for England incredibly harshly
Talk to any ex professional and they will speak very highly of Lee Bowyer. We've all made mistakes and he has learnt from his without a shadow of a doubt
After graduating from Lilleshall, Parker signed for Charlton Athletic as a trainee and made his first team debut as a substitute against Bury in the First Division on 23 August 1997, a match which ended 0–0.[3] He signed his first professional contract with the club two months later.[3] Over the next couple of years he made only a few sporadic substitute appearances for Charlton, although he was one of the brightest prospects in English football. In October 2000, Charlton, then in the Premier League, loaned Parker to First Division club Norwich City[5] for two months to give the England under-21 international some first team experience. At Norwich he scored once against Sheffield Wednesday.[6] On his return to The Valley, Parker was immediately called into the first team to replace injured captain Mark Kinsella.[citation needed] Parker played so well for Charlton that, upon his return from injury, Kinsella could not regain his place in the starting line-up.
Not sure whether he played regularly in the first team as a teenager is relevant though, he was a product of our youth set up and that's the criteria he fulfils for me. Just because you may break through earlier doesn't make you a better player by comparison.
The return game was pretty good, too. If memory serves, it was 3-2 to them at full time so people though we'd won on away goals, but that only came in to effect after extra time. We got another in the extra 30 so ran out 8-7 winners on aggregate.
But, as someone hired to influence young Charlton footballers, I can't think of a worse candidate in the time I have been a supporter. As a teenage footballer at Charlton, off the pitch he is probably best remembered for three things. Taking drugs (which resulted in him being dropped from an England squad). A racist, disgusting, cowardly attack at a McDonalds. And securing a big-money move to Leeds United.
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that taking drugs - while they are signed to Charlton - is in anyway acceptable. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he did it and end up earning millions and playing for England".
I don't want Charlton players being given any reason to believe that racist abuse and violence is anything other than abhorrent. Players can look at Bowyer and say "well he only got a fine...".
And I don't want Charlton players to have any more reason than they already have to think "well, if I get my head down, I can get away from Charlton as soon as possible and go and play for a "big club"".
Surely more authentic for someone who's had a troubled past and donne some abhorrent things to teach others of the error of their ways than someone who has no worldly experience of being an utter Berkshire hunt?
Never liked Bowyer and don't even know if he's repentent for his fuckwittery as a younger man but lots of people do bad stuff as youngsters and can give insight to others about not making the same mistakes when they mature.
Wasn't Robbie Fowler hired to help out with the Strikers at one stage whilst am sure there was another one or two
Is Lee Bowyer an articulate, persuasive public speaker? Is he an eloquent, lucid mentor? Has he demonstrated an undiscovered talent as a compelling counsellor? I don't know.
But I do know that he was a violent thug, fined for an unprovoked racist attack on an innocent person; a negligent professional footballer with a destructive attitude to drugs; and a disloyal and selfish player who took the very first opportunity to leave, for as much money as he could get, as soon as he could go. All while he was still a teenager.
I wouldn't invite Dean Chandler or Jamie Stuart back to lecture players on healthy lifestyle. I wouldn't have invited Jimmy Gauld to advise players on where, when and on which sports events to gamble. I wouldn't invite Richard Rufus to offer financial planning advice to players. And I certainly wouldn't invite Lee Bowyer to advise on how a teenage footballer at Charlton should behave.
It is likely to be a bit frenetic and physical tomorrow. Perhaps Lee Bowyer can also offer Konsa and Aribo some advice on how not to get sent off against Millwall, although happily Rhino Stevens followed suit in that game a little later. Alex Rae isn't playing tomorrow but I'm sure they have other wind up merchants who will be more than happy to exploit a youngster's rush of blood to the head.
If he's a decent coach and role model then stuff his media profile. He's said he doesn't want to be a manager and maybe that's one of the reasons why.