FIFA Ban The Poppy

iainment

cafctom said:

iainment said:

Fiiish said:

iainment said:

Fiiish said:

FIFA deciding that the poppy is a political symbol is in and of itself a political act. Thought they were meant to be politically neutral?

FIFA haven't decided the poppy is a political symbol. They just recognised that it is. And applied their rules. That's all.

Well it's not. Look up the definition of 'political' and it is pretty obvious that wearing a poppy does not fall under that category.

Now it could be considered a cultural symbol, which is something else entirely.

If it isn't political why the vapours about wearing it? For some it is a way of showing support for UK military adventurism over the years.

It is only political because of those from the left who want to make a political debate out of it.

FIFA is of the left?

i_b_b_o_r_g

Wheresmeticket? said:

What a load of bollocks. The annual CL poppy debate with the expected combatants sniffing around each others arses for a chance to bite and longing for justified offence.

Oh the irony

AddickUpNorth

These are available.

Wheresmeticket

i_b_b_o_r_g said:

Wheresmeticket? said:

What a load of bollocks. The annual CL poppy debate with the expected combatants sniffing around each others arses for a chance to bite and longing for justified offence.

Oh the irony

Woof.

i_b_b_o_r_g

AddickUpNorth said:

I hear you AUN

ken_shabby

I'd wear one to respect those who gave their lives, and because of the donation aspect. I dislike FIFA anyway, and feel they really need to look at themselves on this one- it's not their culture. Having said which, the comment that being printef on the shirts takes awau the voluntatism, and from 1945 to 2000 didn't happen, is also true. Let the players buy one like the rest of us, if they want to.

Wheresmeticket

http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/75412/no-roses-grow-on-a-sailor-s-grave-the-jim-mackenzie-story#latest

i_b_b_o_r_g

i_b_b_o_r_g said:

AddickUpNorth said:

I hear you AUN

Apart from cats though

Alwaysneil

Cats do provide good entertainment for the dogs though.

I've not bought my poppy yet this year, the past few years I've tried to buy one or more from the guy outside Cannon Street station. I hope he's going to be there again this year. Looks a bit like spike Milligan and has a portable music machine.

@mr people's moderator, is there a similar you poppy type remembrance organisation in France?

SE7toSG3

Lets try not to use the poppy to beat each other up, its an entirely individual choice.

Its only my opinion but if you wear one, wear it with dignified pride and dont dig out those that choose not to.

If you dont wear one take an equally dignified approach and dont go out of your way to tell everyone why.

Similarly when we have our short act of remembrance at 'our club' memorial please do come down to participate but if its not your thing then just stay away. Its only one weekend a year.

Back on thread, its not a huge step by FIFA to allow the two FA's to wear poppies on the shirts, they surely have bigger things to enforce within the game.

centurion

Of course the poppy is a political symbol - it is connected to war which are about the most political act anyone can imagine - and the original meaning of the First World War was to be a war that ended all wars. That's an amazing political ideal. Unfortunately in recent years the poppy has nothing to do with ending wars. It is about continuing them and that's the problem with the symbolism of it. It has been hijacked and what used to be a simple act of remembrance is now about supporting endless war as if there's no other alternative. I had ancestors fought in wars so think I have as much right to say that as anyone but it's sad that too that this is only discussed in November and the rest of the year nobody asks any questions about it.

Gravesend_Addick

22:48 and this thread is still active. I lost that bet then!

i_b_b_o_r_g

Alwaysneil said:

Cats do provide good entertainment for the dogs though.

I've not bought my poppy yet this year, the past few years I've tried to buy one or more from the guy outside Cannon Street station. I hope he's going to be there again this year. Looks a bit like spike Milligan and has a portable music machine.

@mr people's moderator, is there a similar you poppy type remembrance organisation in France?

The memorials in every village are kept pristine and, in my experience, most of the village turn out for the remembrance services. Also, you notice that those who want to take part, ain't made to feel bad by folk, like the hair splitting luvvies on here. They're free to unconditionally remember those who were made to loose/give their lives from every background - race - religion - country for what they thought was a good cause.

Alwaysneil

As is said above it means different things to different people. As is true of most things.

For me Remembrance Day and wearing a poppy remains a simple act of remembrance.

I'm just a bit young to have known many people who fought in world war 1, my grandparents were all involved in world war 2, the last war in which the general population of the country were involved.

My personal remembrance is of them and then of the sadness of war generally.

That's not to say I do not think of these things more often, I do, but it is a time of increased reflection.

nth_london_addick

some people on here are complete classless cnuts

cafc_harry

Wearing a poppy is a personal choice. I do but I have to respect your opinion if you don't. For me, regardless of politics and the reasons behind war, I wear my poppy for the soldiers that have fought and continue to for the good of this country. Yes nowadays wars are... Controversial. But these people, who I'd say by a majority are fairly politically neutral put themselves in harms way so I don't have to. I'd feel wrong not to do something as small and insignificant as where a poppy and a weekend of memorial as a tribute to them.

Off_it

I always wear a poppy. I wear it because I want to. I would never force anyone to wear one or think any different of them if they didn't. It's a personal choice.

It does annoy me that some people want to - in my view - jump aboard the remembrance "bandwagon" for dubious reasons. Like exactly why do clubs and the FA now all seem to insist on wanting poppies on football shirts? What does that prove? As someone said, the footballer isn't really making the choice, so it's a somewhat hollow gesture.

Same with the BBC seemingly insisting that everyone who appears must be wearing a poppy. Why? Because they are frightened of people complaining if someone isn't wearing one? (And they will)

And whilst I'm at it, it always used to only be the games around rememberence Sunday where you had a minutes silence. Why did some people have one last week, just because they don't have another home game? So what? That's another hollow gesture to me.

But all that aside, FIFA can go fuck themselves.

DA9

It's not a political symbol, it is the registered logo/symbol of a registered charity, which as a member of, and a standard bearer for the RBL, I take offence at the suggestion.
You may as well say Pudsey or the red nose is political.
I am not a poppy facist insisting everyone should wear one, but it should be down to choice, even though those that don't are wrong :-)

guinnessaddick

If government can find the money to cover the cost of war, they should find a way to cover the cost of what is the result of war.

Ted\'s Addicksson

Buying a poppy also raises millions for the treatment, welfare and rehabilitation of serving and ex servicemen and women. It also raises money for the families of those service people to support them through hard times.

It's a charity.

Not that hard to understand really.

i_b_b_o_r_g

guinnessaddick said:

If government can find the money to cover the cost of war, they should find a way to cover the cost of what is the result of war.

I really don't see what this has got to do with remembering 16 year olds getting mown down by machine guns 100 years ago.

This idea that everyone who wears a poppy or believes in wearing a poppy somehow agrees with government foreign policies over the years is unique to say the least.

Fiiish

i_b_b_o_r_g said:

guinnessaddick said:

If government can find the money to cover the cost of war, they should find a way to cover the cost of what is the result of war.

I really don't see what this has got to do with remembering 16 year olds getting mown down by machine guns 100 years ago.

This idea that everyone who wears a poppy or believes in wearing a poppy somehow agrees with government foreign policies over the years is unique to say the least.

I think it was more a comment on the fact that if our government paid fully for all treatment and care of armed forces personnel injured in the line of duty, then the RBL would have no reason to sell poppies, at least from a fund-raising perspective, unless the RBL decided to instead transfer to supporting another cause (such as those injured or killed due to British military action).

The poppy does not just mean remembering the waste of life that was the First World War to most people, for some people it is commemorating all those injured or killed in warfare, past and present.

ForeverAddickted

Yes all Wars are political so in a sense the poppy is just that but what you have to remember is the soldiers who died in the fields of the Somme, on the beaches of Normandy and in the deserts of Iraq etc. they were simply following the orders of the politicians.

They cant say NO I'm not fighting as dont believe in your political views, had they done that they would have been imprisoned or shot for disobeying orders.

Its because men have given up their lives that I wear a poppy, that they had the guts to go into situations knowing there was a bigger chance that they wouldnt be alive that evening and thats something I would never be brave enough to do.

The Poppy and whole thing about Rememberence Weekend is remembering the little guy

ForeverAddickted

RedChaser said:

ForeverAddickted said:

AddickFC81 said:

Tht is because Fifa is run by a Swiss and the Swiss are in bed with Germans and they are still bitter about the the two wars.

Dont forget the World Cup... Do Dah Do Dah

Didn't think you was old enough .

I'm not... I just know the likes of you old gits forget what happened last week let alone fifty years ago so thought Id kindly remind you

RedChaser

ForeverAddickted said:

Yes all Wars are political so in a sense the poppy is just that but what you have to remember is the soldiers who died in the fields of the Somme, on the beaches of Normandy and in the deserts of Iraq etc. they were simply following the orders of the politicians.

They cant say NO I'm not fighting as dont believe in your political views, had they done that they would have been imprisoned or shot for disobeying orders.

Its because men have given up their lives that I wear a poppy, that they had the guts to go into situations knowing there was a bigger chance that they wouldnt be alive that evening and thats something I would never be brave enough to do.

The Poppy and whole thing about Rememberence Weekend is remembering the little guy

And most of the little guys in 1940/45 didn't have a choice because they were conscripted and just had to get on with it.

i_b_b_o_r_g

Fiiish said:

i_b_b_o_r_g said:

guinnessaddick said:

If government can find the money to cover the cost of war, they should find a way to cover the cost of what is the result of war.

I really don't see what this has got to do with remembering 16 year olds getting mown down by machine guns 100 years ago.

This idea that everyone who wears a poppy or believes in wearing a poppy somehow agrees with government foreign policies over the years is unique to say the least.

I think it was more a comment on the fact that if our government paid fully for all treatment and care of armed forces personnel injured in the line of duty, then the RBL would have no reason to sell poppies, at least from a fund-raising perspective, unless the RBL decided to instead transfer to supporting another cause (such as those injured or killed due to British military action).

The poppy does not just mean remembering the waste of life that was the First World War to most people, for some people it is commemorating all those injured or killed in warfare, past and present.

I know exactly what poppy is for and appreciate what you're saying, which is why I put the last bit in. To me, it's for remembering the dead, not the people or policies that sent them to their deaths.

How does it go, lions led by donkeys

ForeverAddickted

RedChaser said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Yes all Wars are political so in a sense the poppy is just that but what you have to remember is the soldiers who died in the fields of the Somme, on the beaches of Normandy and in the deserts of Iraq etc. they were simply following the orders of the politicians.

They cant say NO I'm not fighting as dont believe in your political views, had they done that they would have been imprisoned or shot for disobeying orders.

Its because men have given up their lives that I wear a poppy, that they had the guts to go into situations knowing there was a bigger chance that they wouldnt be alive that evening and thats something I would never be brave enough to do.

The Poppy and whole thing about Rememberence Weekend is remembering the little guy

And most of the little guys in 1940/45 didn't have a choice because they were conscripted and just had to get on with it.

Its ironic though isnt it.

The soldier couldnt do anything without receiving orders from the politicians / high command.

The FA cant do anything without receiving permission from FIFA...

All the more reason to wear the poppy!!

palarsehater

whilst at the euros i was fortunate enough to visit the war graves in arras a very humbling experience i couldn't believe how pristine it was kept, and really was the highlight of the euros for me. they really give there today for our tomorrow, i think its a joke that were not allowed them for the match, hopefully they still have armed forces at the game against Scotland and the minutes silence is observed,

ForeverAddickted

palarsehater said:

whilst at the euros i was fortunate enough to visit the war graves in arras a very humbling experience i couldn't believe how pristine it was kept, and really was the highlight of the euros for me. they really give there today for our tomorrow, i think its a joke that were not allowed them for the match, hopefully they still have armed forces at the game against Scotland and the minutes silence is observed,

I was disgusted that the England Team didnt pay a visit to the War Graves during the Euros because it would be too tiring for them.

Of course they couldnt go either after the Iceland game could they!!

se9addick

Am I right in thinking FIFA was on its knees financially after one of the world wars and was kept afloat by a charity match between England and Scotland ?