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Therapeutics use exemptions (TUES)
soapboxsam
Posts: 23,229
Not the first Wiggins' to have a sicknote, But; Bradley Wiggins,
Why say in your book that you never had an injection ?
Why let a hacker tell the world you took a banned Steroid( With permission) before you did ?
Why was your best ever tour result(2012 tour win) after taking this banned steroid, (with permission)
if it's not performance enhancing ?
Why do most of our top athletes seem to have asthma ?
Did the Brits just exploit this loop hole better than the Russians ?
We want transparency on every one but ourselves ?
If this can be discussed without Union Jack glasses on, it will make for a better discussion.
Why say in your book that you never had an injection ?
Why let a hacker tell the world you took a banned Steroid( With permission) before you did ?
Why was your best ever tour result(2012 tour win) after taking this banned steroid, (with permission)
if it's not performance enhancing ?
Why do most of our top athletes seem to have asthma ?
Did the Brits just exploit this loop hole better than the Russians ?
We want transparency on every one but ourselves ?
If this can be discussed without Union Jack glasses on, it will make for a better discussion.
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Comments
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Long article on this in Cycling Weekly. It was not just him, others including Laura Trott.
But this was not hidden. It is recorded in their medical records and was not a breach of the rules.
However, due to the dirty history of the sport, mud will stick.1 -
I haven't been following this closely.
But as do countless others I use a nasal spray, commonly known as Beconase. I use it for an allergy. It contains a corticosteroid which is a "banned substance". I understand its use can be detected in drug tests.
Following your argument to a logical conclusion, would mean large numbers of individuals with various ailments would be precluded from professional sports competitions. That seems a tad mean and somewhat harsh.
Are you suggesting that use of a prescription drug should not be allowed by sports participants in carefully controlled and monitored situations?
Steroid injections are a legitimate targeted treatment for inflammation. It's right that sports participants should be allowed to use these to hasten recovery.
As long as there are systems in place to accommodate genuine medical usage/dosage as it seems to be with these exemptions, I really don't see a problem.
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Sigh. The injections thing means iv injections. I can understand if you don't follow cycling that it might be difficult to see the difference, but there is one - a massive one. Historically, iv injections were given by team doctors as 'vitamin shots' but were, in fact a cocktail of banned substances - cycling therefore has a long history with iv drug injection and there's a big distinction between them and vaccinations/booster shots. Interestingly, I would have had to apply for the exact same TUE he's applied for - I have a biannual injection for hay fever/grass pollen allergy called Kenalog, which contains the same steroid. Of course, as a non-elite cyclist that's not the case, but goes to show that the TUE system is pretty stringent (in fact if I entered the national TT championships now I'd still have to get a TUE, even in my mid forties)
The rules are there for a reason. He has abided by the rules, as have all the other athletes with TUEs.
This is just deflecting attention from the systemic doping by Russian athletes that has been going on for years - hence the data has been sourced by Russian state-sponsored hackers. Don't fall for the schtick7 -
But there does seem to be a lot of top sportsmen who have made it to the top with asthma and allergies.
Surely they need to race with their symptoms just as someone with a faster resting heart rate has to race against those with abnormally slow heart rates.0 -
I've got the perfect headline for this story:
Man Does Thing He's Perfectly Entitled To Do.2 -
I really don't understand why people still think Olympians are clean. They're all pumped up with all the legal supplements they can get their hands on to boost their performance as much as they can.
They all do it so I don't regard any of them as cheats, they're still the best sportspeople in the world.1 -
that pretty much sums it upPowell Is Pleasant said:I've got the perfect headline for this story:
Man Does Thing He's Perfectly Entitled To Do.
it's a shame that sportspeople don't publish these things themselves but as far as I can see all Fancy Bears have done so far is show that a lot of top performers are clean1 -
People who are not trained in any kind of medical practice get upset over words such as 'injection' and 'steroids' - The Thread, coming 2016.
Brought to you by the makers of 'All Overseas Income is Tax Evasion - The Thread'.1 -
Yeah man does something he is entitled to do but never mentions it in his book or in any interview, yet when questioned changes story to fit the new message
Sport at elite level is full of corruption and cheating
It would be niave to think that we don't have athletes that have participated2 -
The problem with the drug Wiggins was given to permission to use is that it's only used on asthma in situations that would be so serious you would find it very hard to move, let alone ride a 3 week bike race. Seems weird that so many athletes conveniently have asthma that crippling and still reach the top of the sport.4
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I'm surprised we did so well in the Paralympics when so many seemed to have competed in the Olympics.0
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Is it not possible though that there are athletes using these as a loophole? Not accusing anyone as I'm sure there are genuine cases where athletes need TUEs in order to compete. However, that rule is only there for genuine cases. In a world rife with corruption and cheating then it's not inconceivable to think that there are athletes using these in order to gain an advantage.1
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Agreed with this above. I also thought that you couldn't get a TUE to use a drug to prevent a condition occurring more to treat one once symptoms present themselves. Allergies are a bit of a grey area here I guess though.Smithy said:The problem with the drug Wiggins was given to permission to use is that it's only used on asthma in situations that would be so serious you would find it very hard to move, let alone ride a 3 week bike race. Seems weird that so many athletes conveniently have asthma that crippling and still reach the top of the sport.
Ultimately there have been lots of rumours about abuse of TUE's for a while I understand. Whether it is to allow someone to take something normally banned or to take a drug that will mask another illegal substance taken without a TUE I do not know.
Personally I would open the doping doors and allow anything as long as it was declared. The extra impetus it would give to research might provide new drugs that have side benefits for existing chronic conditions that affect joints, bones and muscles.0 -
Or women without Testes having to run against women who do.MrOneLung said:But there does seem to be a lot of top sportsmen who have made it to the top with asthma and allergies.
Surely they need to race with their systems just as someone with a faster resting heart rate has to race against those with abnormally slow heart rates.4 -
The way I see it is (and this isnt with British glasses on) that the Media are using it to try and knock down the success of British Cycling over recent years, and that because British Cycling has emerged so strong out of no where to some, there has to be something behind it.
How I view it is that Nairo Quintana (am just using him as an example) doesnt have asthma so is able to get to the top of the mountain with no asthmatic issues, whilst Chris Froome / Bradley Wiggins have asthma struggle to get to the top of the mountain without having any breathing issues... To counter this they take the TUE so are simply putting themselves on an equal footing with the likes of Quintana (i.e. its not like EPO which gives them an equal footing AND advantage.)
Ultimately for me, Wiggins hit the nail on the head yesterday in his interview with Andrew Marr... This isn't a case of athletes cheating, they're simply obeying of the rules and regulations of whats allowed set out by the Governing Body and the Anti-Doping Authority, yes as Marr said yesterday they're very close to the line between cheating and playing fair but surely it doesnt matter how close to the line you get provided you stay the honest side?
I think as well the case of Simon Yates should be taken into consideration... He took drugs for Asthma earlier in the year, it WASN'T on the approved list set out by the authorities so he received a ban (and that happened really quickly when it was discovered) so if the authorities do deem what Wiggins / Froome are doing wrong am sure they wont hesitate to hand out bans either.
Also why did Wiggins leave this out of his book...? I think this reaction proves why he left it out, had it been included then the instant reaction from the press and public would have been exactly as it is now0 -
The problem is he did leave it out of his book. By understanding how the public would react if he mentioned it he must be fully aware of how the public would react if this information was ever released and it wasn't from him. This isn't to say I think he's done anything wrong, rather that he probably should have mentioned it.0
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He didn't take it for Asthma. He took it for Hay Fever. Just like I have, for years.Smithy said:The problem with the drug Wiggins was given to permission to use is that it's only used on asthma in situations that would be so serious you would find it very hard to move, let alone ride a 3 week bike race. Seems weird that so many athletes conveniently have asthma that crippling and still reach the top of the sport.
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This is what I reckon concerns everyone yet I'm not an expert and this could be a really stupid question from my part but... If you've not got asthma etc. and you take an injection to deal with it, wouldnt it do sweet FA because its looking for something that isnt there?colthe3rd said:Is it not possible though that there are athletes using these as a loophole? Not accusing anyone as I'm sure there are genuine cases where athletes need TUEs in order to compete. However, that rule is only there for genuine cases. In a world rife with corruption and cheating then it's not inconceivable to think that there are athletes using these in order to gain an advantage.
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having read the entire thread, i am still at a loss as to what is happening on Tuesday?5
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One thing that I've just realised... I've NEVER seen a Footballer sneeze during a match
i.e. Surely there are occasions when a player goes to shoot, SCORE yet no a-a-achoo, they miss the ball and the chance is gone1 - Sponsored links:
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What level of dosage is the right amount to get the athlete/cyclist back onto a level playing field?
Is it say 20ml (no effect); 40 ml (medium effect) or 60 ml (very strong effect)?
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We know The Russians dope with the tacit agreement of their government.
Wiggins was given an easy ride by Andrew Marr. who didn't follow up on so many strange answers by Bradley.
BW writes a book and states he has never had an injection to improve his performance, yet he received three intramuscular corticosteroid injections of a powerful drug just ahead of the biggest races of his life.
It was a legal loophole that Sky exploited.
Chris Froome who used an inhaler for the same condition said he had no idea that Wiggins had injections ?
Why such a secret between teammates ?
Mr cool made a terrible mistake keeping his mouth shut.
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Because there was something to hide there's loads of them at it,0
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I think they should strip BW of his knighthood, its ridiculous that he got one for going for a bike ride in France anyway!1
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Don't get me on my soapbox about knighthoods !cafcdave123 said:I think they should strip BW of his knighthood, its ridiculous that he got one for going for a bike ride in France anyway!
They should have been scrapped in December 1170, when 4 knights rode to Canterbury and made mincemeat out of Thomas Becket.
Fat Philip Green, Jimmy Pedo Saville etc etc.2 -
The entire honours system should be scrapped let alone Knighthoods!!
But thats for another thread2 -
David Walsh's Sunday Times article:
https://reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/54cmx2/david_walsh_on_bradley_wiggins_in_sunday_times/
Certainly has me questioning it a bit more and I think he's right, Brailsford has some questions to answer.0 -
Agreed... I'd like to see an interview between Walsh and Wiggins...colthe3rd said:David Walsh's Sunday Times article:
https://reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/54cmx2/david_walsh_on_bradley_wiggins_in_sunday_times/
Certainly has me questioning it a bit more and I think he's right, Brailsford has some questions to answer.
If the latter refuses then it would certainly have me doubting him a hell of a lot more1 -
Russian bullshit: a bit of a non story, made in to something else and conveniently spread after a poor olympics by Russia and a year of embarassing controversies.1
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IMO just as much a cheat as old Lance.soapboxsam said:Not the first Wiggins' to have a sicknote, But; Bradley Wiggins,
Why say in your book that you never had an injection ?
Why let a hacker tell the world you took a banned Steroid( With permission) before you did ?
Why was your best ever tour result(2012 tour win) after taking this banned steroid, (with permission)
if it's not performance enhancing ?
Why do most of our top athletes seem to have asthma ?
Did the Brits just exploit this loop hole better than the Russians ?
We want transparency on every one but ourselves ?
If this can be discussed without Union Jack glasses on, it will make for a better discussion.
The biggest issue I have with it is the use of the term 'I only did it to be on a level playing field'
Yet they won, they were ahead of the rest of the field. In some cases by a dispropotionate amount.
The steroids clearly helped as it pushed them on to win, whilst those who probably deserved it more.
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