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  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,193
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,687
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    So it sounds like he already had a mortgage and used ER to pay it off....is that right ?

    Can I ask, how much were the fees & charges that you think were "sharp practice" ?
  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,193
    £64 k mortgage owed about £56k, early redemption was £2k.

    solicitor fee was over 4k. FA 2.2k (or thereabouts’ ) Interest accruing at about £60 per day  after my FiL passed. The land search fee was about £400 and a credit score check £40. 
    Then to settle the ER, another £150. 
    So a 56k debt to the estate ended up £105k after 18 months and my FiL had about £22k in the bank. Which after funeral expenses and probate £15k.  (90k ER) was the sum loaned 
  • CAFC_boi
    CAFC_boi Posts: 278
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    You can elect for a Financial LPA to come into effect straight away - this is the most common option, as proving to a financial institution that someone has lost capacity everytime you want to act on their behalf is a nightmare. 

    I guess your father just didn’t tick that box, therefore if he hasn’t lost capacity, the LPA is completely irrelevant. 
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

    Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

    I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

    A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

    The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

    However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.


  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,193
    90k was the amount of ER
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,687
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

    Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

    I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

    A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

    The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

    However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.


    I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

    Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

    I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

    As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.
  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,193
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

    Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

    I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

    A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

    The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

    However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.


    I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

    Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

    I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

    As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.
    Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 
    I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 
    However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 
    While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    usetobunkin said:
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

    Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

    I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

    A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

    The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

    However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.


    I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

    Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

    I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

    As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.
    Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 
    I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 
    However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 
    While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.
    I understand that, and despite heavy regulation it may be the FA pushed the boundaries.

    but for whatever reason, your FIL didn’t want to include the family in this decision, I actually understand that as I’ve aged (and seen my parents age and subsequently pass). Whilst in the cold light of day I’m sure you are right, the best outcome for the family was to have all discussed and come up with a better/different solution. If he was anything like my parents/grand parents, I suspect it was pride of being the elder statesman of the family and not wanting to what he would have felt, burden you all.

    it was I’m sure that pride that made him a great father/father in law. Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth……..

    either way I hope you can put all this behind you and move on.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    usetobunkin said:
    90k was the amount of ER
    I get the numbers now, suspect fees (£8.5k) were added to the loan which makes the numbers make sense.

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  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,193
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

    Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

    I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

    A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

    The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

    However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.


    I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

    Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

    I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

    As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.
    Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 
    I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 
    However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 
    While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.
    I understand that, and despite heavy regulation it may be the FA pushed the boundaries.

    but for whatever reason, your FIL didn’t want to include the family in this decision, I actually understand that as I’ve aged (and seen my parents age and subsequently pass). Whilst in the cold light of day I’m sure you are right, the best outcome for the family was to have all discussed and come up with a better/different solution. If he was anything like my parents/grand parents, I suspect it was pride of being the elder statesman of the family and not wanting to what he would have felt, burden you all.

    it was I’m sure that pride that made him a great father/father in law. Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth……..

    either way I hope you can put all this behind you and move on.
    Thank you very much for your insight and I truly do appreciate your feedback. (Also the other comments from other posters)
    The family have moved on, and remember the old chap with fondness. 
    Once again a big thank you for your support.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    edited September 4
    usetobunkin said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

    Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

    I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

    A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

    The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

    However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.


    I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

    Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

    I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

    As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.
    Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 
    I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 
    However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 
    While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.
    I understand that, and despite heavy regulation it may be the FA pushed the boundaries.

    but for whatever reason, your FIL didn’t want to include the family in this decision, I actually understand that as I’ve aged (and seen my parents age and subsequently pass). Whilst in the cold light of day I’m sure you are right, the best outcome for the family was to have all discussed and come up with a better/different solution. If he was anything like my parents/grand parents, I suspect it was pride of being the elder statesman of the family and not wanting to what he would have felt, burden you all.

    it was I’m sure that pride that made him a great father/father in law. Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth……..

    either way I hope you can put all this behind you and move on.
    Thank you very much for your insight and I truly do appreciate your feedback. (Also the other comments from other posters)
    The family have moved on, and remember the old chap with fondness. 
    Once again a big thank you for your support.
    No worries mate, these things are never easy or straight forward. My Father had early onset dementia in his 50's, there were some people who definitely took advantage of that and that is never nice to find out, I'm just glad he never knew. Especially as they were people close to him. Whilst most weren't large sums of money, I could have gone after them quite easily, but in the end for my own sanity and to move on I let it go (but making sure they knew I knew), financially he didn't suffer or lose out on anything, but I hope they all had trouble sleeping at night (wishful thinking!).

    Really glad to hear you've put it behind you and that you all can remember the good times and look back with fondness. To be remembered fondly is probably what we all want (so when I pop my clogs you'd better all post on this thread what a top bloke I was  :D )
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    Couple of months in now, go on the @Covered End

    FTSE100 Level9,216.87  
    NameLevelVariance% Variance
    Covered End92203.130.03%
    Carter92124.870.05%
    Jamescafc920016.870.18%
    CharltonKerry923417.130.19%
    TheGhostofTomHovi923619.130.21%
    blackpool72924528.130.31%
    Housty925437.130.40%
    Addickinedi917640.870.44%
    RalphMilne916848.870.53%
    valleynick66916551.870.56%
    Hornchurch927558.130.63%
    guinnessaddick915264.870.70%
    thecat913680.870.88%
    meldrew66930184.130.91%
    fat man on a moped9116100.871.09%
    wwaddick9104112.871.22%
    golfaddick9101115.871.26%
    WishIdStayedInThe Pub9101115.871.26%
    WHAddick9335118.131.28%
    Jon_CAFC_9088128.871.40%
    StrikerFirmani9365148.131.61%
    BalladMan9058158.871.72%
    cafcpolo9395178.131.93%
    Diebythesword9400183.131.99%
    Huskaris9025191.872.08%
    Solidgone9021195.872.13%
    Addick Addict9424207.132.25%
    Rob7Lee9000216.872.35%
    IdleHans9434217.132.36%
    Bangkokaddick8998218.872.37%
    @TelMc329450233.132.53%
    Pedro458925291.873.17%
    Arsenetatters9525308.133.34%
    LargeAddick8884332.873.61%
    Redman8876340.873.70%
    holyjo8810406.874.41%
    Friend or Defoe9657440.134.78%
    PragueAddick8725491.875.34%
    Jints9750533.135.78%
    Thread Killer9761544.135.90%
    CAFCWest8621595.876.46%
    Fortune 82nd Minute8571645.877.01%
    HardyAddick8548668.877.26%
    bobmunro8452764.878.30%
    Lenglover8301915.879.94%
    Siv_In_Norfolk74001816.8719.71%
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 65002716.8729.48%
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,687
    Rob7Lee said:
    Couple of months in now, go on the @Covered End

    FTSE100 Level9,216.87  
    NameLevelVariance% Variance
    Covered End92203.130.03%
    Carter92124.870.05%
    Jamescafc920016.870.18%
    CharltonKerry923417.130.19%
    TheGhostofTomHovi923619.130.21%
    blackpool72924528.130.31%
    Housty925437.130.40%
    Addickinedi917640.870.44%
    RalphMilne916848.870.53%
    valleynick66916551.870.56%
    Hornchurch927558.130.63%
    guinnessaddick915264.870.70%
    thecat913680.870.88%
    meldrew66930184.130.91%
    fat man on a moped9116100.871.09%
    wwaddick9104112.871.22%
    golfaddick9101115.871.26%
    WishIdStayedInThe Pub9101115.871.26%
    WHAddick9335118.131.28%
    Jon_CAFC_9088128.871.40%
    StrikerFirmani9365148.131.61%
    BalladMan9058158.871.72%
    cafcpolo9395178.131.93%
    Diebythesword9400183.131.99%
    Huskaris9025191.872.08%
    Solidgone9021195.872.13%
    Addick Addict9424207.132.25%
    Rob7Lee9000216.872.35%
    IdleHans9434217.132.36%
    Bangkokaddick8998218.872.37%
    @TelMc329450233.132.53%
    Pedro458925291.873.17%
    Arsenetatters9525308.133.34%
    LargeAddick8884332.873.61%
    Redman8876340.873.70%
    holyjo8810406.874.41%
    Friend or Defoe9657440.134.78%
    PragueAddick8725491.875.34%
    Jints9750533.135.78%
    Thread Killer9761544.135.90%
    CAFCWest8621595.876.46%
    Fortune 82nd Minute8571645.877.01%
    HardyAddick8548668.877.26%
    bobmunro8452764.878.30%
    Lenglover8301915.879.94%
    Siv_In_Norfolk74001816.8719.71%
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 65002716.8729.48%
    The Budget at the end of November could really turn that list upside down !
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,855
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    usetobunkin said:
    PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 
    The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 
    We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 
    The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.
    As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 
    However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 
    Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

    Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

    I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

    A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

    The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

    However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.


    I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

    Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

    I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

    As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.
    Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 
    I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 
    However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 
    While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.
    I understand that, and despite heavy regulation it may be the FA pushed the boundaries.

    but for whatever reason, your FIL didn’t want to include the family in this decision, I actually understand that as I’ve aged (and seen my parents age and subsequently pass). Whilst in the cold light of day I’m sure you are right, the best outcome for the family was to have all discussed and come up with a better/different solution. If he was anything like my parents/grand parents, I suspect it was pride of being the elder statesman of the family and not wanting to what he would have felt, burden you all.

    it was I’m sure that pride that made him a great father/father in law. Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth……..

    either way I hope you can put all this behind you and move on.
    Thank you very much for your insight and I truly do appreciate your feedback. (Also the other comments from other posters)
    The family have moved on, and remember the old chap with fondness. 
    Once again a big thank you for your support.
    No worries mate, these things are never easy or straight forward. My Father had early onset dementia in his 50's, there were some people who definitely took advantage of that and that is never nice to find out, I'm just glad he never knew. Especially as they were people close to him. Whilst most weren't large sums of money, I could have gone after them quite easily, but in the end for my own sanity and to move on I let it go (but making sure they knew I knew), financially he didn't suffer or lose out on anything, but I hope they all had trouble sleeping at night (wishful thinking!).

    Really glad to hear you've put it behind you and that you all can remember the good times and look back with fondness. To be remembered fondly is probably what we all want (so when I pop my clogs you'd better all post on this thread what a top bloke I was  :D )
    My dad was the same sadly, early 50s as well. I remember one night coming home and a door to door fish salesman had sold him about 5 kilos of prawns  :D
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    Couple of months in now, go on the @Covered End

    FTSE100 Level9,216.87  
    NameLevelVariance% Variance
    Covered End92203.130.03%
    Carter92124.870.05%
    Jamescafc920016.870.18%
    CharltonKerry923417.130.19%
    TheGhostofTomHovi923619.130.21%
    blackpool72924528.130.31%
    Housty925437.130.40%
    Addickinedi917640.870.44%
    RalphMilne916848.870.53%
    valleynick66916551.870.56%
    Hornchurch927558.130.63%
    guinnessaddick915264.870.70%
    thecat913680.870.88%
    meldrew66930184.130.91%
    fat man on a moped9116100.871.09%
    wwaddick9104112.871.22%
    golfaddick9101115.871.26%
    WishIdStayedInThe Pub9101115.871.26%
    WHAddick9335118.131.28%
    Jon_CAFC_9088128.871.40%
    StrikerFirmani9365148.131.61%
    BalladMan9058158.871.72%
    cafcpolo9395178.131.93%
    Diebythesword9400183.131.99%
    Huskaris9025191.872.08%
    Solidgone9021195.872.13%
    Addick Addict9424207.132.25%
    Rob7Lee9000216.872.35%
    IdleHans9434217.132.36%
    Bangkokaddick8998218.872.37%
    @TelMc329450233.132.53%
    Pedro458925291.873.17%
    Arsenetatters9525308.133.34%
    LargeAddick8884332.873.61%
    Redman8876340.873.70%
    holyjo8810406.874.41%
    Friend or Defoe9657440.134.78%
    PragueAddick8725491.875.34%
    Jints9750533.135.78%
    Thread Killer9761544.135.90%
    CAFCWest8621595.876.46%
    Fortune 82nd Minute8571645.877.01%
    HardyAddick8548668.877.26%
    bobmunro8452764.878.30%
    Lenglover8301915.879.94%
    Siv_In_Norfolk74001816.8719.71%
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 65002716.8729.48%
    The Budget at the end of November could really turn that list upside down !
    I'm already thinking do I start turning some of my pension back into cash, it's up so much since the early part of the year it seems a shame to lose some/all of that profit!
  • BalladMan
    BalladMan Posts: 1,123
    Chartlon life hive mind.  Currently have a Stocks and Shares ISA with fidelity, invested solely in 'Lindsell Train Global Equity Fund B GBP Inc'.  1st year it performed well (10pc), second year OK (8pc), but this year just 6pc growth and decreasing.  
    - I want to be on a fund not individual shares (I don't have the time to spend on researching)
    - I ideally want 8-10 growth per annum 
    - I am prepared to be in for 5-10 years, no immediate plans for the cash

    Any recommendations on Fidelity.  Would rather not move providers if I can avoid it as they are generally much of a muchness to the average punter like me.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,687
    edited September 9
    BalladMan said:
    Chartlon life hive mind.  Currently have a Stocks and Shares ISA with fidelity, invested solely in 'Lindsell Train Global Equity Fund B GBP Inc'.  1st year it performed well (10pc), second year OK (8pc), but this year just 6pc growth and decreasing.  
    - I want to be on a fund not individual shares (I don't have the time to spend on researching)
    - I ideally want 8-10 growth per annum 
    - I am prepared to be in for 5-10 years, no immediate plans for the cash

    Any recommendations on Fidelity.  Would rather not move providers if I can avoid it as they are generally much of a muchness to the average punter like me.
    Well firstly no-one can guarantee you growth and ultimately a fund can only return what the markets are doing.

    I know some on here don't like active funds & believe passive / trackers are best, but I believe a good active fund will beat a passive fund over time.

    Currently my favourite global equity funds are -

    Artemis Global Income
    Argonaut Flexible 
    Orbis Global Equity

    Can't remember if they are all on Fidelity as they don't offer all funds like most other platforms, but have a look at let me know if you need any other recommendations.
  • BalladMan
    BalladMan Posts: 1,123
    golfaddick said:
    BalladMan said:
    Chartlon life hive mind.  Currently have a Stocks and Shares ISA with fidelity, invested solely in 'Lindsell Train Global Equity Fund B GBP Inc'.  1st year it performed well (10pc), second year OK (8pc), but this year just 6pc growth and decreasing.  
    - I want to be on a fund not individual shares (I don't have the time to spend on researching)
    - I ideally want 8-10 growth per annum 
    - I am prepared to be in for 5-10 years, no immediate plans for the cash

    Any recommendations on Fidelity.  Would rather not move providers if I can avoid it as they are generally much of a muchness to the average punter like me.
    Well firstly no-one can guarantee you growth and ultimately a fund can only return what the markets are doing.

    I know some on here don't like active funds & believe passive / trackers are best, but I believe a good active fund will beat a passive fund over time.

    Currently my favourite global equity funds are -

    Artemis Global Income
    Argonaut Flexible 
    Orbis Global Equity

    Can't remember if they are all on Fidelity as they don't offer all funds like most other platforms, but have a look at let me know if you need any other recommendations.
    Thanks for the advice, will take a look into the above. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,687
    Early afternoon in the US and both the Dow Jones and the S&P500 have hit new all time highs.

    Since April 8th when they both had fallen for a week after Trump's "Liberation Day" they are up 22% & 32% respectively. 

    Just checked my SIPP. From 8th April to today it's also up 22%. Seeing as I've got less than 25% exposure to the US, with around 20% UK exposure & 20% Europe, Asia & Japan combined then I don't think I'm doing that bad.

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  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,827
    Going back to equity release.
    There was a post on Facebook yesterday about the pitfall of ER.
    Over 18 years the original £21000 had grown to £150000 half of the estate.
    How much of this has actually been lost though?
    I sold a property 18 years ago that property has doubled in price.
    Are you that much out of pocket after 18 years if you had decided to downsize?

  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,687
    clb74 said:
    Going back to equity release.
    There was a post on Facebook yesterday about the pitfall of ER.
    Over 18 years the original £21000 had grown to £150000 half of the estate.
    How much of this has actually been lost though?
    I sold a property 18 years ago that property has doubled in price.
    Are you that much out of pocket after 18 years if you had decided to downsize?

    Exactly. House price inflation negates some of the accrued interest. 

    But I'd also dispute those figures. At 7% the debt roughly doubles over 10 years. So over 20 years I'd expect a loan of £21k to be between £80k and £100k. I've worked in this area & seen the figures from all perspectives.

    Remember, people can post anything on fb (or on any social media platform). 
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,040
    Equity release can be very good if you know and understand what you are doing (like most things).
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,707
    One of my funds in my S&S ISA is up 77%, what should I do, take so profit & if so what do I reinvest in or do I put more into this fund or just it ride as it is?  It’s a Global Gold fund.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    golfaddick said:
    Early afternoon in the US and both the Dow Jones and the S&P500 have hit new all time highs.

    Since April 8th when they both had fallen for a week after Trump's "Liberation Day" they are up 22% & 32% respectively. 

    Just checked my SIPP. From 8th April to today it's also up 22%. Seeing as I've got less than 25% exposure to the US, with around 20% UK exposure & 20% Europe, Asia & Japan combined then I don't think I'm doing that bad.
    I'm trimmed all my holdings yesterday, quite considerably, including UK as can see some dips coming at budget time (which I know is still 2+ months away)

    Since switching my main SIPP back to Fidelity on 14th March I'm up 27.24% but had a lot more US (and UK) than you.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    guinnessaddick said:
    One of my funds in my S&S ISA is up 77%, what should I do, take so profit & if so what do I reinvest in or do I put more into this fund or just it ride as it is?  It’s a Global Gold fund.
    Gold continues to surprise, you don't say over what period that 77% is or also what % of your overall investment is it.

    I'm sticking with my gold for what it's worth - but not buying any more (and haven't for a while), I keep being tempted into selling, but mine's not in an ISA, were it I may well sell and divest a bit. 
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,707
    Rob7Lee said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    One of my funds in my S&S ISA is up 77%, what should I do, take so profit & if so what do I reinvest in or do I put more into this fund or just it ride as it is?  It’s a Global Gold fund.
    Gold continues to surprise, you don't say over what period that 77% is or also what % of your overall investment is it.

    I'm sticking with my gold for what it's worth - but not buying any more (and haven't for a while), I keep being tempted into selling, but mine's not in an ISA, were it I may well sell and divest a bit. 
    3 years, very small %
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,603
    guinnessaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    One of my funds in my S&S ISA is up 77%, what should I do, take so profit & if so what do I reinvest in or do I put more into this fund or just it ride as it is?  It’s a Global Gold fund.
    Gold continues to surprise, you don't say over what period that 77% is or also what % of your overall investment is it.

    I'm sticking with my gold for what it's worth - but not buying any more (and haven't for a while), I keep being tempted into selling, but mine's not in an ISA, were it I may well sell and divest a bit. 
    3 years, very small %
    Well Goldman Sachs believe it still has more to give over the next 12 months, potentially.

    No one really knows, but with stock markets also at an all time high, where would you put the money? As a small % I'd probably let it ride unless you are looking for the cash to spend/use in the next couple of years.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,687
    edited September 17
    FTSE100 just jumped 20 points in 5 mins, which is a big spike in normal times. No idea why as there has not been any market sensitive announcements. 

    Edit.

    Panic over. Market has slowly come back down & now trading roughly where it was an hour ago.
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,982
    golfaddick said:
    FTSE100 just jumped 20 points in 5 mins, which is a big spike in normal times. No idea why as there has not been any market sensitive announcements. 
    It's Rob7Lee investing his PB winnings

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