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Premier League doesn't help English football

hoof_it_up_to_bentyhoof_it_up_to_benty
in General Charlton
An overhyped product which pays far too much to too many mediocre players. A lot of the bigger clubs scoop up young English players who think they've hit the jackpot and then simply don't play them.
Our national team seems to be going backwards despite all the money in the domestic game. Some of our so called 'top' players are bench warmers for their clubs and many of our players have never really developed.
Spanish,Italian and German leagues have a far greater % of home grown players and aren't so overhyped.

Comments

  • Red_in_SE8Red_in_SE8
    Do you think we were a world force in football before the Premier League?
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    Just look at the current England squad... I've listed each player and the level where they started based on where their club is now in the Leagues, the fact that so few have come from the elite clubs is a joke, especially when Chelsea's Academy is so highly praised... Why?

    Why should it be praised when none of their graduated kids can get into the England squad...

    For me that says its a terrible Academy because it doesnt serve its purpose which is to develop kids to play for England!!

    Top Five ... Heaton / Kane / Wilshere / Sturridge / Rashford
    Premier League ... Barkley / Clyne / Lallana / Henderson / Rooney
    Championship ... Forster / Rose / Stones / Cahill / Milner / Sterling
    League One ... Walker / Alli / Bertrand / Hart
    League Two ...
    Non League ... Smalling / Vardy
    Abroad ... Dier
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    Red_in_SE8 said:

    Do you think we were a world force in football before the Premier League?

    Well we won the 1966 World Cup... Got to the Semis in the 1990 World Cup and got to the Semis in the 1996 Euros when the Premier League was still very much in its infancy, every year goes by and the England squad is slowly getting worse.
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    cfgs said:

    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    An overhyped product which pays far too much to too many mediocre players. A lot of the bigger clubs scoop up young English players who think they've hit the jackpot and then simply don't play them.
    Our national team seems to be going backwards despite all the money in the domestic game. Some of our so called 'top' players are bench warmers for their clubs and many of our players have never really developed.
    Spanish,Italian and German leagues have a far greater % of home grown players and aren't so overhyped.

    Heard Dietmar Hamann say all this yesterday and it made sense, he also said everything in Germany is about the team and how you can be a better part of it, our youth development is more about making individuals, that are then over rewarded too early.
    Hmmm yes I saw him having a pop at the Premier League its wages etc.

    Of course Hamann didnt ever take advantage of that of course
  • CharltonDave85CharltonDave85
    We will win sweet fa as we don't play like a team and pick players by the name instead of there form. There are good players in the championshi,league 1 and league 2 that would do a better job. I'm only 31 and I know I will never see England win anything in my lifetime.
  • Athletico CharltonAthletico Charlton
    England used to be poor to average but have the most heart and desire. Now our pampered princesses have lost those qualities too.
  • palarsehaterpalarsehater
    of course the premier league doesnt help but i dont think that can excuse the shit served up by those pricks on monday night, we lost to fucking iceland.

    also shows the type of fans we have in england, an arsenal fan account on twitter 10 mins after full time tweeting allis stats etc well news for you your boy jack wilshere didnt do too well either.

    kane, alli, vardy, smalling, barkley, walker are hardly benchwarmers, we should of played better we should of won the game, we can blame academies etc but we had a manager that hadnt a clue what he was doing playing players out of position, never have i seen a game where everyone was so bad, these are professionals, that do play regular footballer
  • Red_in_SE8Red_in_SE8
    ForeverAddickted said:

    Red_in_SE8 said:

    Do you think we were a world force in football before the Premier League?

    Well we won the 1966 World Cup... Got to the Semis in the 1990 World Cup and got to the Semis in the 1996 Euros when the Premier League was still very much in its infancy, every year goes by and the England squad is slowly getting worse.
    A couple of semi finals every 30 years is not much of a benchmark.

    England's problems have nothing to do with the premiership. Like Charlton's problem over the last decade it has everything to do with their selection of manager.

    The minimum requirement, and only requirement for the next England manager, should be that they have won a major trophy in one of the major european leagues in the last 3 years. This manager should be given no more than a two year contract. This manager should not be involved in 20 year plans and grass roots football in any way. He should be told to identify and select the players that fit his system and told to ignore fan and tabloid campaigns to change his system or players.
  • JollyRobinJollyRobin
    French----18/23--56%
    German---9/23---50%
    Spain-----9/23---58%
    Italy------5/23---43%
    England---0/23---35%

    Above is the number of players in each squad that ply their trade outside of their home country versus percentage of home grown players in their domestic league. It is telling that we have no players in our squad playing outside of England, and also the lowest percentage of home grown players playing in the Premier League. This doesn't just suggest that English players aren't getting opportunities, it suggests a lack of real English talent coming through.

    The two combined; 1. lack of English talent coming through to play in the Premier League, 2. English players stubbornness to play abroad; I believe are the two major reasons why we continue to fail at international tournaments.

    I truly believe English clubs don't overlook English players for any other reason than they don't have the same breadth of footballing knowledge and ability as their European counterparts.

    The only solution is for the Premier League to incentivise sending young players abroad to gain experience learning other styles of football in foreign leagues, and for the FA to improve the standard of coaching for younger players. This will increase the number of players gaining experience playing abroad, and increase the number of home grown players in our league.
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  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    Hodgson / Capello / McClaren have all won major competitions though.

    I think we need to go the other way and find a young Manager who has a small amount of experience within the English Leagues... There seems to be an arrogance in England that anyone going for a big job MUST have achieved success prior to that but Barcelona / Germany have both proven that the said person doesnt need to have a glittering CV prior to taking over.

    As I mentioned yesterday... In the past 20-years our best England Manager has been someone who was pretty inexperienced and hadnt really won anything (i.e. All Glenn Hoddle had to his name was the Championship / Division One title and FA Cup Runner-Up as Player/Manager for Swindon and Chelsea with neither at the time being top English jobs!!)
  • Red_in_SE8Red_in_SE8
    Not aware of what major trophy's Hodgson or McLaren won in the 3 years before being appointed. Cappella was a good choice. But he was past his peak. We need a current top top manager who is at his peak and who fully expects to be back managing a top european club side after 4 years.
  • Red_in_SE8Red_in_SE8
    And another thing before I forget. Something I have observed over the last 2 or 3 years is that the really successfull managers are literally acting as a 12th man on the pitch throughout the 90 minutes simply by their force of personality and ever presence on the touchline talking, gesticulating and cajoling the players. The new manager must have this quality. And he must look good in a skinny suit.
  • sam3110sam3110
    Look at places like Germany, where some players in the Bundesliga have had top seasons for decent sides, and they are still nowhere near the national side, like Bellarabi, Schmelzer, Dahoud, Gundogan, Sulu, Kruse, the Bender Brothers, Volland, Reus (I know a couple have been injured but that wouldn't stop England taking them!)


    And Spain, where players like Cazorla, Herrera, Mata and Diego Costa can't get in the national team yet play week in week out for top teams in the English league.

    Even France, who are missing a few major players due to injuries or suspensions, people like Ribery, Benzema, Lacazette, Mathieu, Laport, Varane and Ben Arfa are all missing from the squad, yet they look like the strongest team out there.

    Imagine if we didn't have Sturridge, Kane, Alli, Cahill, Smalling and Stones in our squad, who's there to come in? Shawcross? Dann? Richards? Caulker? Shelvey? Carroll? Deeney? Austin? There's your problem, there is no depth to our talent pool, and there won't be for some time
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    To be fair Scott Dann / Troy Deeney should be given a chance in an England shirt seeing they've been regarded as one the best Defenders / Strikers in the Premier League this season... Problem here is people look at the players background and think; Deeney he used to play for Walsall instantly has to be shite whilst someone comes through at Chelsea or Man Utd and is regarded as the next saviour.
  • sam3110sam3110
    But with all due respect Dann is no Koscielny or Rami is he, who are both meant to be back up players to the national side, yet playing in the Euros. There are French defenders who are nowhere near the national side that are playing week in week out for top european sides, people like Koulibaly who has decided to play for Senegal even though he was born in France, would walk into most premiership teams, meanwhile we have the choice of a Palarse defender or a recently relegated Aston Villa defender like Lescott. It's laughable that we consider ourselves a force in world football
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    Doesnt help though the cost of our English players and the fact that very want to go abroad.

    i.e. Danny Murphy came out on the BBC the other week saying he wished he'd taken the opportunity to play on the Continent but a deal couldn't be done with Lyon when he was at Charlton... How many more players are there who have turned down the chance?
  • eaststandmikeeaststandmike
    ForeverAddickted said:

    Doesnt help though the cost of our English players and the fact that very want to go abroad.

    i.e. Danny Murphy came out on the BBC the other week saying he wished he'd taken the opportunity to play on the Continent but a deal couldn't be done with Lyon when he was at Charlton... How many more players are there who have turned down the chance?

    I doubt there are many, German, Spanish or French clubs are not queuing up to employ English players/managers or coaches.
  • FiiiiiishFiiiiiish
    eaststandmike said:

    ForeverAddickted said:

    Doesnt help though the cost of our English players and the fact that very want to go abroad.

    i.e. Danny Murphy came out on the BBC the other week saying he wished he'd taken the opportunity to play on the Continent but a deal couldn't be done with Lyon when he was at Charlton... How many more players are there who have turned down the chance?

    I doubt there are many, German, Spanish or French clubs are not queuing up to employ English players/managers or coaches.
    Youngsters abroad have to work hard, English ones are given decent wage contracts over 5 years without being exposed to any first team football. In many cases this is just to stop other teams poaching them, not because they see them as a future first teamer.
  • ValleyGaryValleyGary
    It could be argued that because of the Premier League, some English youngsters will receive better coaching as the clubs can hire the best coaches from anywhere in the World.

    Someone like Loftus Ruben-Cheek at Chelsea for example.
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  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    ValleyGary said:

    It could be argued that because of the Premier League, some English youngsters will receive better coaching as the clubs can hire the best coaches from anywhere in the World.

    Someone like Loftus Ruben-Cheek at Chelsea for example.

    Yet the same time Ruben Loftus-Cheek is as close to the England squad as Jordan Cousins...

    I'd put the latter closer actually as Cousins has League experience so a Premier League might be tempted by him, he'll then put in performances which make the England squad sit up and take notice yet his proper development would have come from outside the Top Flight (note am not actually saying that Cousins is good enough for a Premier League side, just using him as a random example)
  • dizzeedizzee
    At the end of the day we just aren't very good and never really have been.
  • ValleyGaryValleyGary
    edited June 2016
    ForeverAddickted said:

    ValleyGary said:

    It could be argued that because of the Premier League, some English youngsters will receive better coaching as the clubs can hire the best coaches from anywhere in the World.

    Someone like Loftus Ruben-Cheek at Chelsea for example.

    Yet the same time Ruben Loftus-Cheek is as close to the England squad as Jordan Cousins...

    I'd put the latter closer actually as Cousins has League experience so a Premier League might be tempted by him, he'll then put in performances which make the England squad sit up and take notice yet his proper development would have come from outside the Top Flight (note am not actually saying that Cousins is good enough for a Premier League side, just using him as a random example)
    RLC played plenty of times at the back end of last season and is consistently playing for England U21.

    Under Conte i wouldn't be surprised to see him play a lot for Chelsea next season.
  • cafctomcafctom
    I despise everything about the Premier League. The only 'English' thing about it is the fact that the stadiums are located here. Everything else - the players, managers, even the fans - are largely foreign and leveraged towards the big clubs.

    It has been going 24 years and an English manager still hasn't won it! No wonder we have the likes of Southgate being linked for the top job.
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