Technically, I've no doubt what @PeterGage says is correct. But it's clear that common sense often takes a back seat when it shouldn't. Take today's Liverpool penalty against the stripey nigels. The offence took place in the last few seconds of "the minimum of four minutes added time". Now, that must be less than 5 minutes added time otherwise the figure five rather than four would have been used. So by the time the penalty is taken with no additional time wasting, etc the ref still restarts the game with Palace kicking off. He then immediately blows his whistle to end the match. There was no extra extra time to be added, the clock had already ticked past plus five. So why not do the sensible thing and draw the match to a close as soon as the penalty hit the back of the net? Anything else was just a waste of everybody's imaginary extra extra time.
Edited to add: to be fair to Kettle he did apologise for his mistake following the horrendous tackle on Basey at Bristol Rovers. It's quite rare for a ref to put their hands up and admit they were wrong. It should happen more often.
But if you're in stoppage time then the rules are not that cut and dry are they? The referee indicates a minimum amount of time, not a maximum. So to blow on that exact moment his watch must've said exactly 4 minutes (the amount of added time he indicate) which is almost unheard of , most refs wait until the ball is in a safe position to blow up.
The referee does indicate a minimum of additional time. The Law (Law one as I recall) states that the referee is the sole judge of time to be played beyond the 45/90 minutes.
Exactly. So why not allow another 5 seconds?
And as someone said above, how can he be looking at his watch AND the game at the same time?
Let's face it, he did it to say "look at me". Who knows, maybe that team had been having a pop at him all game and they deserved it. But the attitude he displayed shows that he's never played football or paid to watch football. Oh, he may know the laws of the game - inside out - but he really has no idea what its all about really. Sad little man.
Why 5 secs, let's make it 10 or 15 or 20 mins (I am of course joking)! How would you feel if Charlton had a goal scored against them in time added on beyond the correct time. We have to have consistent timing and surely the only way to do that is to apply the relevant law which states "the referee is the sole judge of time added on".
I'd be more pissed off if Charlton had a goal ruled out like Accrington than conceding a goal with 5 seconds added on. The fact is no one but kettle would have known how much time needed to get added and he's done it to be controversial. Step out your little union and see it like the majority of us do.
Majority does not necessarily make it right!
In that case I'd say the majority of referees get it wrong. I've listened to Howard Webb one of the most respected and best referees this country has ever had and he has said "refereeing isn't all black and white and enforcing the rules but also about managing the situation and using common sense," so who am I meant to believe?
Morning Dan
Agreed that Howard Webb has been the finest British referee of the current generation and agree with the general sentiments about refereeing games. Would you please provide the link where Howard has specifically mentioned adding on time beyond that allowed under the laws of the game; I cannot find it.
Who's Dan? I'm so confused.
I never stated that Howard Webb said it in reference to adding on time but just in football laws in general and surely time played is within the laws and blowing up when I goal is about to be scored is using much common sense. If all referees are blowing up exactly on time how come we haven't had this controversy before in year's in football league? Surely law of averages mean something similar would have happened? My guess is the majority of referees use common sense and wait for a faze of play to end.
We are specifically discussing the "Kettle decision" yesterday, and you make some general remark about how good Howard Webb was, which none of us disagree with. A strange analogy !!
I mentioned how good Howard Webb was because he commented how football was not black and white and refs have to use common sense in which I feel should have been used in the "kettle decision" you've now completely ignored all questions including why you called me Dan? Typical ref for ya.........
But if you're in stoppage time then the rules are not that cut and dry are they? The referee indicates a minimum amount of time, not a maximum. So to blow on that exact moment his watch must've said exactly 4 minutes (the amount of added time he indicate) which is almost unheard of , most refs wait until the ball is in a safe position to blow up.
The referee does indicate a minimum of additional time. The Law (Law one as I recall) states that the referee is the sole judge of time to be played beyond the 45/90 minutes.
Exactly. So why not allow another 5 seconds?
And as someone said above, how can he be looking at his watch AND the game at the same time?
Let's face it, he did it to say "look at me". Who knows, maybe that team had been having a pop at him all game and they deserved it. But the attitude he displayed shows that he's never played football or paid to watch football. Oh, he may know the laws of the game - inside out - but he really has no idea what its all about really. Sad little man.
Why 5 secs, let's make it 10 or 15 or 20 mins (I am of course joking)! How would you feel if Charlton had a goal scored against them in time added on beyond the correct time. We have to have consistent timing and surely the only way to do that is to apply the relevant law which states "the referee is the sole judge of time added on".
I'd be more pissed off if Charlton had a goal ruled out like Accrington than conceding a goal with 5 seconds added on. The fact is no one but kettle would have known how much time needed to get added and he's done it to be controversial. Step out your little union and see it like the majority of us do.
Majority does not necessarily make it right!
In that case I'd say the majority of referees get it wrong. I've listened to Howard Webb one of the most respected and best referees this country has ever had and he has said "refereeing isn't all black and white and enforcing the rules but also about managing the situation and using common sense," so who am I meant to believe?
Morning Dan
Agreed that Howard Webb has been the finest British referee of the current generation and agree with the general sentiments about refereeing games. Would you please provide the link where Howard has specifically mentioned adding on time beyond that allowed under the laws of the game; I cannot find it.
Who's Dan? I'm so confused.
I never stated that Howard Webb said it in reference to adding on time but just in football laws in general and surely time played is within the laws and blowing up when I goal is about to be scored is using much common sense. If all referees are blowing up exactly on time how come we haven't had this controversy before in year's in football league? Surely law of averages mean something similar would have happened? My guess is the majority of referees use common sense and wait for a faze of play to end.
We are specifically discussing the "Kettle decision" yesterday, and you make some general remark about how good Howard Webb was, which none of us disagree with. A strange analogy !!
I mentioned how good Howard Webb was because he commented how football was not black and white and refs have to use common sense in which I feel should have been used in the "kettle decision" you've now completely ignored all questions including why you called me Dan? Typical ref for ya.........
I recckon he'll be giving you a red card soon mate, if so don't tell him your real name when he asks for it, two can play at that game
I'm wondering if PeterGage actually saw what happened. I can't see that he said that he did.
The Accrington player had shot & the ball was literally crossing the goal line as Kettle "blew" lol.
An absolute crass decision & I'd ban him for the rest of the season for that.
NB Premiership refereeing in particular, is far better than 10 years ago now that all the "best" refs have retired.
Poll, Reilly, Styles etc were all labelled as the best and they were all poor imo, for the same reason as Kettle, it was all about them. Controversial (wrong) decisions most games from these arrogant twats.
I'm wondering if PeterGage actually saw what happened. I can't see that he said that he did.
The Accrington player had shot & the ball was literally crossing the goal line as Kettle "blew" lol.
An absolute crass decision & I'd ban him for the rest of the season for that.
NB Premiership refereeing in particular, is far better than 10 years ago now that all the "best" refs have retired.
Poll, Reilly, Styles etc were all labelled as the best and they were all poor imo, for the same reason as Kettle, it was all about them. Controversial (wrong) decisions most games from these arrogant twats.
I remember Clive Thomas once saying that fans came to watch him ref. Utter nonsense. I think some of these refs like making controversial decisions like this ridiculous one by Kettle.
I'm wondering if PeterGage actually saw what happened. I can't see that he said that he did.
The Accrington player had shot & the ball was literally crossing the goal line as Kettle "blew" lol.
An absolute crass decision & I'd ban him for the rest of the season for that.
NB Premiership refereeing in particular, is far better than 10 years ago now that all the "best" refs have retired.
Poll, Reilly, Styles etc were all labelled as the best and they were all poor imo, for the same reason as Kettle, it was all about them. Controversial (wrong) decisions most games from these arrogant twats.
I remember Clive Thomas once saying that fans came to watch him ref. Utter nonsense. I think some of these refs like making controversial decisions like this ridiculous one by Kettle.
How does the saying go? A watched kettle never gets it right.
We need to remind ourselves about Jeff Winter's comments in his autobiography (!) on his last game at Anfield...
Talking about his farewell appearance - at Anfield - Winter wrote: "I played a little bit of extra time, waiting until play was at the Kop end, before sounding the final shrill blast . . . the fans behind the goal burst into spontaneous applause. It was longer and louder than normal, even for a big home win. Did they know it was my final visit? Was it applause for me? They are such knowledgeable football people, it would not surprise me."
Surely if time's up then time's up? The position of the ball is technically irrelevant?
utter rubbish !! No ref can say TO THE EXACT SECOND when time is up.......goalkicks, throw-ins, injuries etc all take time out of a game & so surely a bit of latitude should be allowed. As in the Clive Thomas incident the ref should have given it another few seconds just to see what happens..... ball goes in, gets cleared, goes out for a corner, then blow.
Surely if time's up then time's up? The position of the ball is technically irrelevant?
utter rubbish !! No ref can say TO THE EXACT SECOND when time is up.......goalkicks, throw-ins, injuries etc all take time out of a game & so surely a bit of latitude should be allowed. As in the Clive Thomas incident the ref should have given it another few seconds just to see what happens..... ball goes in, gets cleared, goes out for a corner, then blow.
Agreed, but then 99 times out of a hundred allow the corner to be taken.
At the end of the day, it's all about common sense (Law 19 we used to call it). Let the play conclude at the end the half/match and then blow. As Golfie says you will never get an exact timing on a game and at the end of the day the Referee is the sole timekeeper so no one can even argue. Kettle deserves all the stick he's getting. He made his bed, he can lay in it. Even piss in it for all I care. Knob.
Well, I’ve only seen the wide angle at normal speed on iFollow, but I watched it back a couple of times and it’s an exaggeration to say never a red imho. He was late, dived in from sort of behind, and definitely caught the guy, possibly with studs.
Maybe a close up or slow mo shows something different, and I did expect to see a yellow card, but it fell in that area where some refs will give em. It certainly wasn’t a joke decision.
As I just wrote on the match thread, but seems worth repeating here, I haven't seen the challenge but if you send someone off for something in the first five minutes you have to be damn sure. Because you then need to consistently apply the same standards for the rest of the game for similar incidents.
We urgently need VAR controlled by the 4th official to curb the instinctive "look at me" attitude of refs like Kettle.
If you thought the Pompey guy's last minute sending off was harsh, then you'll think Naby's was too. And vice versa. For me, both of them warranted just a yellow.
Kettle was the ref against Bristol Rovers, when Blizzard made a late tackle on Basey in the first minute resulting in Basey not playing for the rest of the season. Kettle only booked Blizzard.
Kettle was the ref against Bristol Rovers, when Blizzard made a late tackle on Basey in the first minute resulting in Basey not playing for the rest of the season. Kettle only booked Blizzard.
Kettle was the ref against Bristol Rovers, when Blizzard made a late tackle on Basey in the first minute resulting in Basey not playing for the rest of the season. Kettle only booked Blizzard.
Jeez I forgot that was Kettle. We've been to court over similar challenges - Matty Holmes, I'm thinking of.
Here is another way to look at it. You hear of a sending off in the first minute in any game, you raise an eyebrow. You then hear the ref was Kettle. You just roll your eyes. It cannot all be bitter partisan fans
He is a prick, it's all about him not the game. It wasn't just the sending off but the whole match he was inconsistent but bloody annoying seemingly fussing over minor things and winding up both sets of players.
He will do more or less anything to be the centre of attention.
Let's be honest at this level most refs are shit, the good ones rightly get quickly promoted up the leagues. Kettle is IMHO one of the worst.
Watching the EFL highlights, Kettle denied a stonewall penalty for Crawley which cost them the game, as Exeter then broke away and won a corner which they scored from!
Watching the EFL highlights, Kettle denied a stonewall penalty for Crawley which cost them the game, as Exeter then broke away and won a corner which they scored from!
Comments
Take today's Liverpool penalty against the stripey nigels. The offence took place in the last few seconds of "the minimum of four minutes added time". Now, that must be less than 5 minutes added time otherwise the figure five rather than four would have been used.
So by the time the penalty is taken with no additional time wasting, etc the ref still restarts the game with Palace kicking off. He then immediately blows his whistle to end the match. There was no extra extra time to be added, the clock had already ticked past plus five. So why not do the sensible thing and draw the match to a close as soon as the penalty hit the back of the net?
Anything else was just a waste of everybody's imaginary extra extra time.
Edited to add: to be fair to Kettle he did apologise for his mistake following the horrendous tackle on Basey at Bristol Rovers.
It's quite rare for a ref to put their hands up and admit they were wrong. It should happen more often.
Bloody refs.....
☺
The Accrington player had shot & the ball was literally crossing the goal line as Kettle "blew" lol.
An absolute crass decision & I'd ban him for the rest of the season for that.
NB Premiership refereeing in particular, is far better than 10 years ago now that all the "best" refs have retired.
Poll, Reilly, Styles etc were all labelled as the best and they were all poor imo, for the same reason as Kettle, it was all about them. Controversial (wrong) decisions most games from these arrogant twats.
End of.
Talking about his farewell appearance - at Anfield - Winter wrote: "I played a little bit of extra time, waiting until play was at the Kop end, before sounding the final shrill blast . . . the fans behind the goal burst into spontaneous applause. It was longer and louder than normal, even for a big home win. Did they know it was my final visit? Was it applause for me? They are such knowledgeable football people, it would not surprise me."
Kettle deserves all the stick he's getting. He made his bed, he can lay in it. Even piss in it for all I care. Knob.
Maybe a close up or slow mo shows something different, and I did expect to see a yellow card, but it fell in that area where some refs will give em. It certainly wasn’t a joke decision.
We urgently need VAR controlled by the 4th official to curb the instinctive "look at me" attitude of refs like Kettle.
Here is another way to look at it. You hear of a sending off in the first minute in any game, you raise an eyebrow. You then hear the ref was Kettle. You just roll your eyes. It cannot all be bitter partisan fans
He will do more or less anything to be the centre of attention.
Let's be honest at this level most refs are shit, the good ones rightly get quickly promoted up the leagues. Kettle is IMHO one of the worst.