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Has KM won the argument about 'customers'?

KM refers to Charlton's supporters as customers and not fans and it's beginning to seem possible she'll win the argument. Numerous 'fans' who've gone through good and bad times have given up going and it seems likely that season ticket sales will plummet next season.
We've endured a dreadful 'product' this season in a poisonous atmosphere and maybe she's proved the point that 'customers' will only endure poor service for so long. I never thought I'd ever want to stop going but like many I no longer enjoy it.
I'm not really sure where 'customers' will come from with this regime in charge. Crowds next season will be pitiful.

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    .........and going forward, CAFC would only need a 12000 ish all seater stadium ???
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    Let's see how good her and her team are at attracting new 'customers'
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    Good job Charlton doesn't do refunds for faulty goods.
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    Damn right she's not!
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    edited February 2016
    The fan is someone known to support their side through thick and thin... The Customer will pick and chose what they want.

    Hate to say it but she is winning that particular argument.

    Fair enough many people say they don't want to renew their Season Tickets, they don't want to give their money up front to this regime, and say they're going to pick and choose my matches next season...

    But thats no different to going to see Phantom of the Opera one week, leaving it a few weeks and then going to see Mamma Mia etc. or if you choose to go to Football for a Fiver because its cheaper, whats the difference between getting a phone contract through EE rather than O2 because its cheaper?

    Only way she'll lose the Customer argument is if Season Ticket prices go down and if Match-Day Tickets go down

    If the latter go up, she's won
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    No she hasn't 'won' the argument, In Ireland she was clearly frustrated because in her words 'the fans don't see themselves as customers.' They still don't. If what people are saying is that she will fill the Valley with new customers when will that ever work? Just maybe at West Ham in their new stadium but its not going to happen here is it? I will continue to attend as see myself as a fan not customer.
    Shame that KM sees herself as a responsible CEO when she should see herself as a disgraceful parody of same.
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    Was there ever an argument or debate to win though?

    Hasn't she said she was taken out of context and therefore effectively conceded she was wrong/misquoted/misunderstood or whatever?

    Isn't it us that's kept the customer thing going merely to emphasise the overall levels of general incompetence?

    Regular customers would not be people who have shown their loyalty by paying four months in advance when they don't know what the product (league) is going to be or what components (players) are going to be included.
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    The fact that it is being considered "an argument" at all is the point here.

    She's created this "argument". Whether fans or customers you don't start an "argument" with them/us. Even if we are "only" contributing a third of their revenue.

    If you do then you're failing at your job, and in any other situation you'd no longer have your job.

    Whenever she's had the chance to speak to make things better she's created more of an us and them situation. Or an argument, if you like.

    So no, whatever happens, she hasn't won anything. The fact she might consider there is something *to* win means that she will ultimately lose.
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    For the first time I'm contemplating not going - it's not about the football I just don't feel a connection at present.
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    edited February 2016
    cafcfan said:

    Was there ever an argument or debate to win though?

    Hasn't she said she was taken out of context and therefore effectively conceded she was wrong/misquoted/misunderstood or whatever?

    Isn't it us that's kept the customer thing going merely to emphasise the overall levels of general incompetence?

    Regular customers would not be people who have shown their loyalty by paying four months in advance when they don't know what the product (league) is going to be or what components (players) are going to be included.

    Feel free to call me out for jumping to conclusions @cafcfan , but am relieved I'm not the only one that thinks this 'fans/customers' quote we've jumped on is actually meaningless - but is just a funny thing to beat the owners with! Wasn't this soundbite from KM basically the (poorly chosen) example she used to address a different point, that we're so different and demanding compared to customers as she gets abuse/letters that a restaurant owner wouldn't. I don't think it's actually that bad an example to use to 'non-football' people at a conference, that is until your own fans catch wind of you calling them 'weird'.

    What I'm saying is that surely it's not the point she was making that she wants us to be 'customers', because as fans - they can take the piss and we still come back for more!

    Edit: But agree that the ownership is turning some fans into customers, which has to be bad for the long term as we'll only get a percentage of them back after RD & co. are gone.
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    Agree with a large amount of that.

    However, I took the the theme of this thread to be a tongue-in-cheek of saying that maybe KM has 'won' by making us more like customers who may now prefer to do other things with their time on a Saturday afternoon. Not an attack on our fans, more just highlighting the fact that a lot of proper fans just don't want to come any more because of how badly we're being run... and will start going somewhere else their entertainment, maybe a restaurant or a cinema ;-)
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    KM hasn't won the argument. She's having a Meire on every front, at the moment. I would not be surprised if she was close to leaving and dreaded each and every match.
    Fans making noise, sponsors pulling out, the old mad owner having to teleport over to talk to their media team, songs sung about her at the games, Chris Solly saying this has been "an extremely difficult season", everyone thinking she's useless....
    KM hasn't won anything.
    And the longer she stays the more the internet will be clogged up with articles about her incompetence.

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    £350 to watch a League 1 team with a League 2 manager with Conference mascots, an Isthmian sofa, a Sunday league business strategy, a jumpers for goalposts CEO and a walking football owner. No thanks.
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    edited February 2016

    cafcfan said:

    Was there ever an argument or debate to win though?

    Hasn't she said she was taken out of context and therefore effectively conceded she was wrong/misquoted/misunderstood or whatever?

    Isn't it us that's kept the customer thing going merely to emphasise the overall levels of general incompetence?

    Regular customers would not be people who have shown their loyalty by paying four months in advance when they don't know what the product (league) is going to be or what components (players) are going to be included.

    Feel free to call me out for jumping to conclusions @cafcfan , but am relieved I'm not the only one that thinks this 'fans/customers' quote we've jumped on is actually meaningless - but is just a funny thing to beat the owners with! Wasn't this soundbite from KM basically the (poorly chosen) example she used to address a different point, that we're so different and demanding compared to customers as she gets abuse/letters that a restaurant owner wouldn't. I don't think it's actually that bad an example to use to 'non-football' people at a conference, that is until your own fans catch wind of you calling them 'weird'.

    What I'm saying is that surely it's not the point she was making that she wants us to be 'customers', because as fans - they can take the piss and we still come back for more!

    Edit: But agree that the ownership is turning some fans into customers, which has to be bad for the long term as we'll only get a percentage of them back after RD & co. are gone.
    I'm with the two of you, I think it was an ill thought out analogy at a speaking engagement she never thought anyone would see. I don't think it was driven by malicious intent, most likely nativity, and probably some confusion and annoyance at the way the fans were acting.

    I don't think that there was any deep seated meaning to it, and I actually think RD's most recent comments are as close as anyone has gotten to saying "like me or lump it." The rest, including KM not coming out and either explaining or apologizing is just poor communications (and I mean that in the way of, they desperately need someone in to help tidy up their PR image and improve communication as a whole).

    I'm going to use an analogy from my career. I work a lot on web applications for the Department of Defense Family Programs here in the States. As stated on other threads, I'm very left leaning, and opposed both foreign wars of the early 2000s. In my younger years in particular, I was outspoken in my criticism of some of the practices of the Armed Forces. I have no immediate family who have been in the Military, and we are mostly peaceful dissidents. This isn't an attempt to politicize this, this is my way of saying I had no real culture understanding of this world. Now, those people are who I work for. And now, most of the people I work with are either former Military or part of Military families. If we talked politics, we probably wouldn't see eye-to-eye, but I have a tremendous amount of respect not just for what they've been through, but for the fact that they've all treated some loud mouthed marxist kid from LA so well.

    Every now and then, someone on one of our teams will make a comment about certain users being ridiculous, and I've done it myself. But inevitably, someone will take them aside and have a quiet word and explain that 1) life can be incredibly difficult for Military families, dare I say in some situations much harder than being a Charlton supporter, and 2) what they're complaining about or speaking about could have been an issue for some time, and that you are the one who is new to the situation, not them. I kind of see the customers comment that way. It's lacking empathy and situational awareness, but it's not necessarily malicious or intended to start a war.

    For me, her comment from two Fan Forums ago when she started her powerpoint, I believe it was "Haven't we been through this already?" is far, far, far more patronizing and unprofessional. Again using an analogy from my work, I go through long stretches of presenting, and re-presenting, and sometimes re-re-presenting information to groups that vary in audience. I would never start a talk that way (though given my constant repetition I have been known to ask a group if we've already gone through things--lightheartedly and humbly), and if someone on my team did that they would get a serious ticking off (and I'm not one for talking people down, but it's just inexcusable).

    I know comparing my work to those running the club is a crude comparison at best, and I do believe there are few, if any businesses like running a football club. We all say dumb things about our work or those we work with, and that's how I see the customers comment. But, for me, the comment at the fan forum is inexcusable.
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    Katrien Meire has won less arguments this season than we've won matches.
    And we're bottom of the table.
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    She has won fuck all. Like the squad.
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    But has saved Roly a shed load of cash with that win bonus not being paid out for a few weeks.
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    1StevieG said:

    But has saved Roly a shed load of cash with that win bonus not being paid out for a few weeks.

    So that's the master plan.

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    Charlton Athletic have been a massive part of my life for 45 years but I've had enough and am unlikely to go any more this season and will not be renewing next season. I care but the owners don't and I am not going to follow blindly.
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    Charlton Athletic have been a massive part of my life for 45 years but I've had enough and am unlikely to go any more this season and will not be renewing next season. I care but the owners don't and I am not going to follow blindly.

    Welcome to the not so elite club mate
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