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Where would we be with a decent manager?

If we'd started the season with a half-decent manager how much difference would it have made to our current league position? How poor is our squad and how much is down to the stream of incompetents that have managed it?

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    whilst i think we would be better off if we had started the season with a manager with experience of British football, i don't think we can underestimate the impact of having a small inexperienced playing squad, as soon as we got a few injuries we just collapsed.
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    edited February 2016

    whilst i think we would be better off if we had started the season with a manager with experience of British football, i don't think we can underestimate the impact of having a small inexperienced playing squad, as soon as we got a few injuries we just collapsed.

    This is the issue... Reckon Luzon would never have been sacked, nor would he have left us in trouble if we hadnt have had our injury worries (hell we even need to control our red card count)... I get what Roland meant by not having a squad of 35-players but we need to rely more on experienced players than we do Academy graduates

    You can still do both by integrating one or two youth players each season rather than about four or five this season
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    Where would we be with a decent owner, a decent CEO, a decent manager & some decent players !!
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    The injuries did kill us. Luzon is a manager of inertia. Once he gets things going his naive, infectious enthusiasm can build team spirit and you can motor on through your lack of tactical awareness through sheer bloody-mindedness and commitment. Once the train stops though it's almost impossible to get it going again. Once we lost Igor, Mak, Kashi, Ceballos and the rest our flaws were exposed. Luzon did no work on the opposition, made no attempt to alter our tactics and make us less predictable and ultimately teams just played around us while we made up the numbers.

    That was the point where we should have got in a proper manager to get to work on our shape and tactics, bring in a couple of loans, close up shop and grind out some draws and scrappy wins while we waited for reinforcements in January. That's what a normal football club would have done. Instead we chucked in a Belgian competition winner who I swear picked line-ups sarcastically. Now we're so far down the rabbit hole Riga can't pull us out and we're just wondering who the hell is going to be taking to the field in August. Probably Fox. And Lennon. And whoever VW Hamme's goalkeeper is.
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    We'd be in a better position if we'd have kept Luzon through to date instead of all the chopping and changing.

    With the same players and a decent experienced manager from July 2015 we'd probably be lower mid table.

    With a decent experienced manager who was allowed to invest the money spent on shite however he saw fit we'd probably have a better league position again (say 10th-14th).

    Im basing this on figures we've seen spent on the likes of Sarr, Bergdich etc, loan fees and wages for the various crap and coupled with the improvement in form of the likes of JBG if he had better players around him and a manger he had faith in (spread out and run about a bit).

    This is the point. With far better decisions but spending little to no more than he has done this season RD could have avoided everything.
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    The totally inexplicable decision (KM, note) was letting Riga go in the first place. I'm not saying he's a brilliant manager but he had certainly performed above expectations first time round, and pulled the ship off the rocks. In any normal business, and indeed any normal football club, he would have been kept on, and given the resources to do the job. Had that happened I'd have expected us to be healthy top half by now, and indeed last season.
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    The main failure was the recruitment last summer. Punts on young foreign players are fine IF you have a larger squad, as you have to allow for such players struggling to cope with a new country and the intensive nature of the Championship. You can have a small squad if you have a team of dedicated British players (or foreign players experienced in our league), our squads in the 90s were tiny but full of players who'd play virtually every game

    Blackburn brought in Paul Lambert, but currently have no win in 9 so an experienced British manager is no guarantee of success
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    The totally inexplicable decision (KM, note) was letting Riga go in the first place. I'm not saying he's a brilliant manager but he had certainly performed above expectations first time round, and pulled the ship off the rocks. In any normal business, and indeed any normal football club, he would have been kept on, and given the resources to do the job. Had that happened I'd have expected us to be healthy top half by now, and indeed last season.

    But you have to ask - is a healthy top half position what the owner and CEO want? I'm starting to think not. Even if you are somewhat naive, the decisions that have been made this season in particular, and continue to be made do not smack of panicking, desperation to stay up. Neither have I seen any genuine concern about our plight or ambition to be a top half side.

    I've heard meaningless words. Seen cheap signings which will have little impact, at very little expense with the view of appeasing fans.

    Would a new manager have really made much difference to our position? Not much. Maybe a place or two above where we are now. But the problem is the owner and the CEO and Murray and a lot of players who couldn't care less whether they get relegated or not, so long as they get paid.
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    Addicted said:

    We'd be in a better position if we'd have kept Luzon through to date instead of all the chopping and changing.

    Was listening to BBC London coming away from the Bristol City match and a similar question was asked... Wasnt directly Charlton related but it was said that after all the chopping and changing, the bigger issues would still remain for the new Manager to work with.

    Queens Park Rangers / Rotherham / Blackburn / Fulham / Huddersfield / Charlton... Just looking at the table and from those teams, none of them have truly improved on their position since sacking their manager.

    Preston stuck with Simon Grayson and they're now only nine points from the Play-Offs... Bolton have stuck by Neil Lennon and they're still in mix for staying up (they've actually improved over the last few months)... In the lower leagues you've also got the likes of Colchester / Dagenham / Yeovil / Oldham / Newport... all these teams have replaced their Managers yet are still in the same predicament that they were in prior to the sacking.

    Tip the scale over and look at the other end of the table... Burton Albion and Walsall have both lost their Managers this season (to higher clubs rather than sackings) yet both are still well in with a shout of promotion this season. Think Brentford are the only team to have really done well by changing Manager this season

    Unless there is a really good reason (i.e. he shagged the CEO's wife), sacking the Manager is just a knee jerk reaction and rarely solves anything... Your in relegation trouble for much bigger reasons (Injuries ... Transfer Policy / Budget) these days
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    There have been quite a few statistical studies done to show that managers do not make that much of a difference to overall performance. A lot won't believe this as it goes against the fundamentals of what they believe to be true about football.
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    colthe3rd said:

    There have been quite a few statistical studies done to show that managers do not make that much of a difference to overall performance. A lot won't believe this as it goes against the fundamentals of what they believe to be true about football.

    Plus what the Newspapers write and speculate over if half a dozen Managers arent being sacked from their jobs each season
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    The totally inexplicable decision (KM, note) was letting Riga go in the first place. I'm not saying he's a brilliant manager but he had certainly performed above expectations first time round, and pulled the ship off the rocks. In any normal business, and indeed any normal football club, he would have been kept on, and given the resources to do the job. Had that happened I'd have expected us to be healthy top half by now, and indeed last season.

    Riga not getting the job after avoiding relegation the first time was a surprise Prague but I expected SCP to get us out of the situation anyway. Of course I agree we are not anywhere near a normal club in the way we are mismanaged and no head coach has much input into player recruitment since RD took over.
    We will never know what would have happened if Riga was kept on but I expect we would be in a similar position as now and, while I acknowledge that you are not saying he is a brilliant manager, Riga’s CV since then is not inspiring.....
    I do not wish to comment here as to the merits or not of all the coaches that we have had over the months but it seems to me that whenever a coach says that he wants more players or asks for championship players the P45 soon beckons. This 'I am my own man' thing that Riga trots’ out at every opportunity is ridiculous and has been further illustrated in the disappointing loan window when with the targeted players identified (okay allegedly to prevent arguments)before he arrived went elsewhere.
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    The totally inexplicable decision (KM, note) was letting Riga go in the first place. I'm not saying he's a brilliant manager but he had certainly performed above expectations first time round, and pulled the ship off the rocks. In any normal business, and indeed any normal football club, he would have been kept on, and given the resources to do the job. Had that happened I'd have expected us to be healthy top half by now, and indeed last season.

    Riga not getting the job after avoiding relegation the first time was a surprise Prague but I expected SCP to get us out of the situation anyway. Of course I agree we are not anywhere near a normal club in the way we are mismanaged and no head coach has much input into player recruitment since RD took over.
    We will never know what would have happened if Riga was kept on but I expect we would be in a similar position as now and, while I acknowledge that you are not saying he is a brilliant manager, Riga’s CV since then is not inspiring.....
    I do not wish to comment here as to the merits or not of all the coaches that we have had over the months but it seems to me that whenever a coach says that he wants more players or asks for championship players the P45 soon beckons. This 'I am my own man' thing that Riga trots’ out at every opportunity is ridiculous and has been further illustrated in the disappointing loan window when with the targeted players identified (okay allegedly to prevent arguments)before he arrived went elsewhere.
    Absolutely agree with all of this.

    Once the regime had shafted SCP, they should have held on to Riga.

    Peeters was not going to tear up any trees, but I think that what lost him the job was making noises about needing more players/that the players he had were not good enough. And, eventually, the same happened to Luzon.

    RD cannot accept the thought of his minions disagreeing with his vision, which is why KM is still on the payroll, notwithstanding the complete pig's ear she is making of running the club's off-field activities.
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    just as far through the looking glass but with a decent manager - the poor clot would still have a threadbare incompetently assembled squad of journeymen, teenagers and euro lightweights - and 23rd place in the league.
    All the while this septuagenarian shitforbrains holds the purse strings and appoints the executives CAFC will be paddling against the tide of shit creek, with paper paddles, with "paddle" scrawled on them in crayon, that only sort of look like paddles until they're used for paddling.
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    We should have kept hold of Riga from his first spell,think we would be doing well by now
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