Why did Rega stick with same side that was poor and lost to Bristol City?!

Tony_addick_fan

Does anyone else feel the same and disappointed with Riga for not making more changes for Cardiff game other than Lookman being replaced???

In my opinion we had better players on the bench like Poyet. He should be playing and the way Riga has picked the starting line up so far leaves me with no confidence of us even putting up a fight against relegation!

JorgeC

Roland told him to do it of course

stackitsteve

Roland spent all his time on that amazing interview.
Had no time to authorise team changes.

Athletico Charlton

Poyet for Jackson was blindingly obvious.

Lookman and Harriott for Reza and Bergdich too unless they are injured.

We needed to win and we didn't.

Also don't know why he has bought in Fanni and then not included him in a squad almost 2 weeks later and Sonogo who can only get on the bench.

An inauspicious start this time around.

SDAddick

I agree, and I hope this puts an end to Jackson in the midfield in a 4-4-2. @LouisMend made a point on a CharltonLive pod about how it's hard for fullbacks to distribute the ball, because you usually have to go inside or downfield. I think this is definitely the case with our full backs. Fox has it the worst, as JJ doesn't seem quite comfortable dropping all the way deep in his own half to get the ball in front of the back four, and Bergdich wants the ball in space. In my opinion, Solly tries the chipped ball down the line a little too often, and Foxey struggles to find a team mate.

For all of his strengths, JJ does not help with this. Against Rotherham, in the second half he looked to sit in front of the back four and either break up play or distribute out wide. I wrote that he was starting to remind me a bit of Gareth Barry, who I didn't rate when he went to City, but Mancini did a trick with him, sorted out his touch, his positioning and how he read the game, and made sure he never gave the ball away. Given Jacko's lack of pace and legs he should be looking to do something similar, either dropping between the CBs or just in front showing for the ball when the FBs have it, but it just doesn't come naturally to him. Poyet can do both, and I hope he's in the team at Fulham.

I wouldn't mind going 4-3-3 with Ba, Cousins, and Poyet in central midfield and Lookie, Mak, and JBG up front. I know he's raw, but I'd like to give Ba a chance to play with decent cover next to him, give him some positional freedom, and give Cousins someone to anchor the midfield behind him so he can get in passing lanes, break up play, and get forward. Fulham have Stearman and Burn at Centerback. The more we can look to drag them deep then get in behind, or drag them wide out of position, the better we'll be.

C_Jensens_Love_Child

SDAddick said:

I agree, and I hope this puts an end to Jackson in the midfield in a 4-4-2. @LouisMend made a point on a CharltonLive pod about how it's hard for fullbacks to distribute the ball, because you usually have to go inside or downfield. I think this is definitely the case with our full backs. Fox has it the worst, as JJ doesn't seem quite comfortable dropping all the way deep in his own half to get the ball in front of the back four, and Bergdich wants the ball in space. In my opinion, Solly tries the chipped ball down the line a little too often, and Foxey struggles to find a team mate.

For all of his strengths, JJ does not help with this. Against Rotherham, in the second half he looked to sit in front of the back four and either break up play or distribute out wide. I wrote that he was starting to remind me a bit of Gareth Barry, who I didn't rate when he went to City, but Mancini did a trick with him, sorted out his touch, his positioning and how he read the game, and made sure he never gave the ball away. Given Jacko's lack of pace and legs he should be looking to do something similar, either dropping between the CBs or just in front showing for the ball when the FBs have it, but it just doesn't come naturally to him. Poyet can do both, and I hope he's in the team at Fulham.

I wouldn't mind going 4-3-3 with Ba, Cousins, and Poyet in central midfield and Lookie, Mak, and JBG up front. I know he's raw, but I'd like to give Ba a chance to play with decent cover next to him, give him some positional freedom, and give Cousins someone to anchor the midfield behind him so he can get in passing lanes, break up play, and get forward. Fulham have Stearman and Burn at Centerback. The more we can look to drag them deep then get in behind, or drag them wide out of position, the better we'll be.

I pretty much agree with that although Sanogo will be knocking on the door after the impact he made after coming on Saturday.

msomerton

Lookman, not good enough or strong enough yet to play a full 90min game, Poyet well we must see what he has done on the train ground to judge if is ready. I note he did not play for MK Dons when there.
I would guess that the rest of the loan signings brought in by Roland not fit or goodenough to start a game.

ForeverAddickted

For me it was simple... Bristol City didnt beat us heavily, we were beaten by a dodgy penalty and for me that isnt enough to make whole sale changes, when we've finished a season strongly its been because we've had a settled squad.

Part of the reason we're down where we are is partly because of poor performances but they've not been helped by constant changes to formation and players in the team (yes injuries havent helped that), now we've got a fully fit squad (bar three players), stick with the same team and make slight adjustments per opposition where required.

Lookman should never have started against Cardiff, he was so out of his depth against Bristol City it was laughable and would have continued to have harmed his development (So Reza was the only other choice)

Of course I'm sure he would have come on last Saturday yet because of the injuries to Jackson / Cousins, Riga was forced to waste two substitutions

As for Poyet I thought he was bang average when he came on, a few sideways passes and a horribly clearance that got shanked straight to a Cardiff player who forced Henderson into a decent save... Out of the four, its Ba I've been most impressed with in the last two games

dread_pirate_addick

ForeverAddickted said:

Bristol City didnt beat us heavily, we were beaten by a dodgy penalty

Watched the replay quite a few times. Gudmundsson pushes the player. Clear penalty; stupid decision by the player.

70% of these players should not be in the team; guarantee that they'd never play for another championship team after us.

Just goes to show how terrible the RD network and scouts are!

ForeverAddickted

dread_pirate_addick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Bristol City didnt beat us heavily, we were beaten by a dodgy penalty

Watched the replay quite a few times. Gudmundsson pushes the player. Clear penalty; stupid decision by the player.

70% of these players should not be in the team; guarantee that they'd never play for another championship team after us.

Just goes to show how terrible the RD network and scouts are!

Even I thought it was a penalty yet Tomlin clearly makes a meal out of it which is why it was dodgy.

Okay then, so which 30% are we left with for the season...? Muppet!!

Lazy_eye_metaphor

If we're going to have any hope of beating the drop I would think a lot depends upon JR getting Poyet back to the way he was playing this time two years ago. To do that he has to start every game.

queensland_addick

One thing I will give Riga credit for is sticking with Fox who had a far better game by all accounts. Had he dropped him after getting jeered off the week before, I think it would have been the end of Fox for this season if not longer. His confidence would have been shot to pieces.

killerandflash

The team that lost against Bristol and drew on Saturday is also more or less the one that beat Rotherham 4-1.

The big difference is the absence of Igor.

Personally I would have played Poyet instead of Jacko, but there's nobody who definitely should have started on Saturday, but didn't

Pedro45

It was obvious to replace Lookman (who can still make a major impact off the bench) but with Igor injured the only option was Reza. That said, Riga played JBG up front most of the first half with Reza wide. Of the rest, there aren't too many decent options to change the back four, and they didn't give away the pen in the Brizzle game, so they all had to play.

The midfield is where we have been short all season - Jackson, legend that he is, needs to be benched. If Poyet had played with Cousins we may have done better, and I'm not against the 4-3-3 option that @SDAddick mentioned (with Ba, Poyet, and Cousins in the middle and Lookman and JBG alongside Big Mak).

All that said, we now have to worry about the injuries that Cousins and Jackson picked up which means that we may well see more of Ba and Poyet next week as we have no other choice (unless Diarra recovers?). I just hope that Riga doesn't fall into the trap that plays Solly in midfield and Motta or Fanni at right back - it doesn't work!

If we can get Igor fit, along with Diarra and Bauer, we have a slim chance of getting out of this mess. Igor is key in my opinion...

ForeverAddickted

I thought that by playing JBG up front worked in our favour better... Reza has the pace and has played on the wing before, in the second half when he was playing in front of me I thought some good crosses were put in (better than what Johann had been doing in previous matches).

That in turn allowed JBG free reign across the whole pitch and thought it benefited him more as he couldnt then be man marked out of the match

Garrymanilow

SDAddick said:

I agree, and I hope this puts an end to Jackson in the midfield in a 4-4-2. @LouisMend made a point on a CharltonLive pod about how it's hard for fullbacks to distribute the ball, because you usually have to go inside or downfield. I think this is definitely the case with our full backs. Fox has it the worst, as JJ doesn't seem quite comfortable dropping all the way deep in his own half to get the ball in front of the back four, and Bergdich wants the ball in space. In my opinion, Solly tries the chipped ball down the line a little too often, and Foxey struggles to find a team mate.

For all of his strengths, JJ does not help with this. Against Rotherham, in the second half he looked to sit in front of the back four and either break up play or distribute out wide. I wrote that he was starting to remind me a bit of Gareth Barry, who I didn't rate when he went to City, but Mancini did a trick with him, sorted out his touch, his positioning and how he read the game, and made sure he never gave the ball away. Given Jacko's lack of pace and legs he should be looking to do something similar, either dropping between the CBs or just in front showing for the ball when the FBs have it, but it just doesn't come naturally to him. Poyet can do both, and I hope he's in the team at Fulham.

I wouldn't mind going 4-3-3 with Ba, Cousins, and Poyet in central midfield and Lookie, Mak, and JBG up front. I know he's raw, but I'd like to give Ba a chance to play with decent cover next to him, give him some positional freedom, and give Cousins someone to anchor the midfield behind him so he can get in passing lanes, break up play, and get forward. Fulham have Stearman and Burn at Centerback. The more we can look to drag them deep then get in behind, or drag them wide out of position, the better we'll be.

The theory is sound but I feel like this team just doesn't have the tactical nous or togetherness to play anything more complex than a 4-4-2. We saw under Fraeye that the 4-3-3 sees us charging up the field and creating chances but we don't know how to close out and control a game. There's too many young kids and too many tactically naive players in there. I'd really like to see what you're proposing but it would be something to work on over the summer if we survive. Right now we need two strikers playing close to each other and two banks of four getting up and down the pitch as a unit. It's miserable and uninspiring but we need to do what MK Dons and Bristol City are doing; steal a goal and then ruin everyone else's day from then on until the final whistle. There's some talent in the squad but they're all trying to do something completely different. I think our best hope is Gudmundsson, Cousins, Poyet and Harriott with Mak and Igor up front. Some fit, willing runners in the middle, a player up front the ball can stick too, pace running in behind the defence in Igor and some wide men who can change a game in fits and starts. It's a measly ambition but we're not a very good team at the moment.

SpicedAddick

I think the argument for sticking to the same side for both games is simplicity. To get the players all singing off the same hymn sheet they first need to know the hymns. So Riga essentially picked his best/most dependable 11 in the first week, once the understanding of each other and the system starts to grow he can make small changes - one player at a time, where necessary. I think it is about building an on-field unit, rather than assuming he can just drop players in whenever and in whatever quantity he likes.

I like this about Riga, it provides the team with stability and it says to the players that if they want to break into the first team, these are the players they have to be better than.

Simonsen

Jackson gets selected because of his attitude, defensive capabilities and his goal threat. He'd normally bury that free header he had in the 1st half and has missed very few chances in his Charlton career (a Jackson miss is pretty rare).

But I do agree that he's struggling and we sometimes look better without him. The constant injuries have caught up with him and have reduced his effectiveness.

PS: He WAS good at Rotherham....especially his tackling. And he was very unlucky with a superb free-kick.

C_Jensens_Love_Child

ForeverAddickted said:

I thought that by playing JBG up front worked in our favour better... Reza has the pace and has played on the wing before, in the second half when he was playing in front of me I thought some good crosses were put in (better than what Johann had been doing in previous matches).

That in turn allowed JBG free reign across the whole pitch and thought it benefited him more as he couldnt then be man marked out of the match

Disagree, though JBG really came into the game when he was switched to wide position. I don't understand why Reza is not given a game up front when he is selected. Especially with Big Mak playing as the outlet.

LargeAddick

just looked at the table for the first time since Saturday. Six points adrift, seven really with our crappy GD, 5 wins all season and seven of our last nine games against teams in the top eight. Not looking good is it and unless we get in a decent creative midfielder getting back players like Bauer and Diarra will make little difference at all. We've stop the rot defensively but can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. I'm sure another full back will help though.

daveaddick

Sorry to say Large you are right you cannot win games if you don't score and we don't test the opposition goalies nearly enough. We had a brief spell at the end of the game but a lot of it was piss and wind. I think the Fox issue is a conundrum because we don't have a replacement with Holmes Dennis injured and in fairness the lad did have a better game on Saturday but to me he is too slow for a full back.

We have nothing up front Big Mak is isolated, no Igor who is injured again, JBG isn't very interested it would seem and sorry to say Reza is all over the place. Fair play to Riga he is trying to establish a settled team but with the lack of quality and injuries he cannot put out a team that can actually win.

Dazzler21

Fox had a better game? He tee'd up their striker twice by not committing to a decision.

1st passes ball to striker's feet, 2nd let's his striker get in round him to score a disallowed goal.

daveaddick

All relative Dazzler as he was abysmal against Bristol but have to say i forgot about the incident your described. Take it back he was shit as ever

Fortune 82nd Minute

SDAddick said:

I agree, and I hope this puts an end to Jackson in the midfield in a 4-4-2. @LouisMend made a point on a CharltonLive pod about how it's hard for fullbacks to distribute the ball, because you usually have to go inside or downfield. I think this is definitely the case with our full backs. Fox has it the worst, as JJ doesn't seem quite comfortable dropping all the way deep in his own half to get the ball in front of the back four, and Bergdich wants the ball in space. In my opinion, Solly tries the chipped ball down the line a little too often, and Foxey struggles to find a team mate.

For all of his strengths, JJ does not help with this. Against Rotherham, in the second half he looked to sit in front of the back four and either break up play or distribute out wide. I wrote that he was starting to remind me a bit of Gareth Barry, who I didn't rate when he went to City, but Mancini did a trick with him, sorted out his touch, his positioning and how he read the game, and made sure he never gave the ball away. Given Jacko's lack of pace and legs he should be looking to do something similar, either dropping between the CBs or just in front showing for the ball when the FBs have it, but it just doesn't come naturally to him. Poyet can do both, and I hope he's in the team at Fulham.

I wouldn't mind going 4-3-3 with Ba, Cousins, and Poyet in central midfield and Lookie, Mak, and JBG up front. I know he's raw, but I'd like to give Ba a chance to play with decent cover next to him, give him some positional freedom, and give Cousins someone to anchor the midfield behind him so he can get in passing lanes, break up play, and get forward. Fulham have Stearman and Burn at Centerback. The more we can look to drag them deep then get in behind, or drag them wide out of position, the better we'll be.

3 days later, I still haven't got a clue what formation we played on Saturday.

It certainly wasn't, imo, a standard 4-4-2 .Actually, I'm inclined to think it was more a 4-3-3, with Reza, JBG and Makienok up front. (JBG certainly played up front on Saturday - he certainly wasn't on the right wing). So maybe Riga has already taken your advice, even if with different players to your suggestions!

Whatever happens on Saturday, it must be time to give Jackson a rest. Love the man to death - he'd certainly be in my own hall of fame - but he just looks like he is running in treacle now. Would be perfect to bring him on with 30 mins to go - if behind, he might always snatch a goal, if in front he can help shore things up.

SDAddick

Could it have been 4-2-3-1 on Saturday? Reza as the wide right forward, JBG through the middle, and Bergdich as the left forward?

4-2-3-1 makes sense as well, for similar reasons as the 4-3-3. It's somewhat startling to me that we have players who couldn't adjust to playing 4-3-3. The point is absolutely taken that under KF we struggled with it, but I would argue under KF we struggled with everything because we completely lacked structure. We have a team, particularly up front, that was built to play 4-4-2 because of Luzon's rigid devotion to it, but I'm afraid that with 4-4-2 we get overrun in the midfield.

On @LargeAddick's point, I know you were being sarcastic, but if we do go 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 having attacking fullbacks can be key. Neither Fox nor Solly are great at getting forward, and I think this provides a lot of problems, particularly in possession. It also allows opponents to put their wide players right up on our fullbacks without having to worry about the FB running past them when attacking. Having an attacking fullback can push wingers/wide forwards further up the pitch, and could help us start to put teams on the back foot, as well as help with delivery into the box.

All of these tweaks to the squad, tactics, and playing style are coming ridiculously late, but I still think in Riga we finally have a decent manager, and some of these things will come good. I know it's been frustrating to now, but we have a 15 game season left, not a 5 game one, and there is a lot of time for the team to evolve.

kinveachyaddick

Vetokele is the key. If he stays fit he will score goals and his link-up play will create opportunities for others.

Anybody know whether he's likely to be back for Saturday?

Lincsaddick

Riga presumably selected what he considers to be his best starting XI .. damned if you do make changes, damned if you don't .. everyone on here has a version of the starting team they would like to see .. almost the same team was terrific at Rotherham, lost against B C and got a point on Saturday .. i.e. 4 points from three games, better than we've averaged over the season so far .. and the defence has certainly been tightened, just 2 goals conceded in 3 games .. attack is still a concern of course, Vetokele's return will strengthen that area I would hope

SDAddick

Lincsaddick said:

Riga presumably selected what he considers to be his best starting XI .. damned if you do make changes, damned if you don't .. everyone on here has a version of the starting team they would like to see .. almost the same team was terrific at Rotherham, lost against B C and got a point on Saturday .. i.e. 4 points from three games, better than we've averaged over the season so far .. and the defence has certainly been tightened, just 2 goals conceded in 3 games .. attack is still a concern of course, Vetokele's return will strengthen that area I would hope

I should say I definitely think we've improved greatly under Riga, and I'm a big believer that what we don't see on the training ground five days a week is arguably more important that what we see in matches.

What I've said above are simply my suggestions, or what I would do. It seems that this thread in general is more constructive criticism, which I think is normal and healthy. Even if a lot of us don't agree with picking Jackson (and I feel like I've been saying it since before it was cool), I would imagine that most of us appreciate the fact that the leadership and occasional goal threat he brings means there is reason to pick him, just not enough in my humble opinion.

Tutt-Tutt

It was 4-4-2 to start with, then 4-2-3-1, probably to bolster up Central Midfield, where we were getting outplayed again. I get the impression we are not watching the opposition properly, as we always seem surprised how they line up and have to adjust during the game.

However, the system isn't the real problem. There is no pattern of play. For the second week running, we went sideways-backwards-sideways and then launched high balls at Big Mak. There is no real build-up play through midfield into the last third. Cardiff simply copied how Bristol City played, as was predictable, and stopped us playing, until the last 15 mins when we gambled.

I hope we have a different plan at Fulham. The personnel has to change, otherwise it will be the same story.

Airman Brown

Tutt-Tutt said:

It was 4-4-2 to start with, then 4-2-3-1, probably to bolster up Central Midfield, where we were getting outplayed again. I get the impression we are not watching the opposition properly, as we always seem surprised how they line up and have to adjust during the game.

However, the system isn't the real problem. There is no pattern of play. For the second week running, we went sideways-backwards-sideways and then launched high balls at Big Mak. There is no real build-up play through midfield into the last third. Cardiff simply copied how Bristol City played, as was predictable, and stopped us playing, until the last 15 mins when we gambled.

I hope we have a different plan at Fulham. The personnel has to change, otherwise it will be the same story.

Just fancy that ... then again, if the woman accepting the chief scout's resignation as another useful saving doesn't know he oversees scouting the opposition...