Don't really feel sympathy for him, he went for a job he was out of his depth in and seemingly engineered his way into position. That said I also don't hate the guy as ultimately it is KM, RM, and RD who gave him the role, gave him no backing then weirdly had a meeting with the players without him before an internal vote of confidence. What is RM doing? KM as much as I despise her has inexperience and naïveté as an excuse. RM does not.
All rather sad, but ultimately I am more inclined to file Fraeyes statement under the bitter ex employee than I am others.
"But of course, my ambition is to manage and I don't know if this could happen working with the owner."
That's as telling as anything he said in my view, and absolutely damning.
And yet the CEO will, if ever asked about this, say "he's an ex-employee" as if that negates everything he and the many other ex-employees say.
Deep down I wonder if Katrien still really believes in Roland and what he does. She had been undermined by him so many times with the appointment of coaches and perhaps in other areas too and get little or no public support.
I have little faith in any of them to be honest. There are no combinations of 'stories' that corroborate each other. Murray, Meire, Fraye, they all tell a different story about the same thing. I think they are all stumbling around trying to save their reputation. The only one that isn't contradicting himself or others is Roland and that's only because he never, ever says anything.
There is nothing worse that a load of people trying to blame each other for everything. Any organisation where the individuals are more concerned with their own reputation than the organisation or the way forward is always going to be in a mess. I hate the blame culture but it would seem that no one at Charlton is willing to accept responsibility for failures, personally. They are always someone else's fault. Fraye was a poor appointment and for all the rubbish he spouts about which players he wanted and having no credibility due to being a interim appointment the truth is that he was never going to be around for long because he couldn't do the job. He should have fallen on his own sword or KM should have sacked him or RM should have publicly condemned his position but to save face they were all blaming the others while the games we had left to save our season were ebbing away.
I have a good feeling about our chances this season, but had Riga come in six games earlier we would, probably, not be in the mess we are now, and to cap it all off we may well have had Spurs at the Valley last weekend giving the club a massive financial boost as well as giving the fans something to enjoy.
Until those 'running' our club stop protecting themselves we will go from crises to crises.
To be fair that's all that a lot of supporters want. Some one to come out and say "we did this completely wrong, let's draw a line under it and start again, having learnt from our mistakes." Rather than just bullshit pr and spin
I agree with you to a certain extent, but what we've seen before is with this lot, admitting they are wrong is sometimes part of the bullshit. It was just this summer that they held their hands up and admitted last summer's transfer policy wasn't good enough and everything would be different this year. And it was just the summer before that when they admitted they'd underestimated the Championship in their first January window and things would be different. Incidentally Bob Peeters was sat with them that time, but when they brought Luzon in they talked about making a mistake recruiting Bob but they'd sorted it out this time with our new Alex Ferguson and the hiring of Luzon would draw a line under the whole thing. Hi Karel. Bye Karel. And now back to Riga. I think there was a time when I would welcome them holding their hands up but at this point it's only actions, and consistent actions at that, which will work for me.
They admit they've made mistakes.
They never say they have learnt from them.
More importantly, they have yet to demonstrate that they have learned from them...
What they say is much less important to me (though I would like improved some communication); I hear more than enough lies when they escape my lips (and that is not a reference to a recently acquired ex-France international defender).
"But of course, my ambition is to manage and I don't know if this could happen working with the owner."
That's as telling as anything he said in my view, and absolutely damning.
And yet the CEO will, if ever asked about this, say "he's an ex-employee" as if that negates everything he and the many other ex-employees say.
Deep down I wonder if Katrien still really believes in Roland and what he does. She had been undermined by him so many times with the appointment of coaches and perhaps in other areas too and get little or no public support.
But she, like her appointments, are unlikely to find better should she leave, such is the nature of her engagement here. And she certainly can't leave a failure.
I mean, how odd is it to have a clause in your contract outside the network that should RD call you can follow freely? Because that's what Fraeye had, and it seems he knew he'd get a chance with RD that noone else was likely to offer.
It's not harsh at all, the man was totally out of his depth and just continued to pretend to be in his role to keep roly happy, he is as poison as two shit chalets and as much of a liar as km,
He comes out now and says the players were with him and it was big bad roly who wasn't, let's be honest those players who were with him certainly wernt at Colchester certainly wernt at Huddersfield let alone any other shambolic performance he over saw,
You can't hide in football it's too visual, look at players who hide on the pitch move behind opposition players instead of wanting the ball, we see it the other team sees it and you become the focus of their game, your own team see it and stop looking for you
When the team looks at the bench and sees a fraud in charge they fold they can hide they have an excuse and that's what our lot done they hid they folded and we got spanked stupid, the players were at fault for the score and the manor of the defeat, Yet that maggot was responsible for the loss
The players should have fly kicked him off the bench and training ground
Now he has the nerve to say that mourhino could keep that team up that's brilliant for the boys to read right out of the how to be a shit Mgr hand book
The man is Rd in the dug out
I think this is evidenced by how much harder the team has worked in the last couple of games, Cousins in particular. You can't keep your coaching inadequacies away from the players, particularly those who have been around the block a bit.
“After ten minutes, they called me in telling me in front of the players that the players fully backed me and that a managerial change would be seen as a bad decision. "
I simply cannot believe that any of the players backed him and wanted him to stay.
I think he's going off what he was told happened during those vital 10 minutes he wasn't in the room.
For all we know Jacko and Hendo thought it wrong and unprofessional to say they wanted the manager gone - and decided against this, offering to help rally the team themselves as senior players.
Alternatively, they may have expressed a desire for a new manager to be found (which, actually, is in keeping with Fraeye's own intepretation that the players wanted a permanent manager) and were told it wasn't going to happen, so they would had to agree to get behind Karel.
All we know is that when Karel entered the room he was informed that the players would be backing him and were behind him. Let's face it, if this really was the case then why would that meeting even have happened?
Well done Sir ,well done. You have mastered the Football Managers first rule your own PR ! Its NEVER your fault, and you show case your "wins" however shallow whilst ignoring your shortcomings.
Who was that masked Belgian who told us"the squad is good enough" ? the same one that said"we can only play 11 at a time".
Is it in the Belgian DNA to talk utter bollox and believe that it will believed ?
Take this anyway you want old chap but feck off and NEVER darken The Valley again.
"But of course, my ambition is to manage and I don't know if this could happen working with the owner."
That's as telling as anything he said in my view, and absolutely damning.
And yet the CEO will, if ever asked about this, say "he's an ex-employee" as if that negates everything he and the many other ex-employees say.
Deep down I wonder if Katrien still really believes in Roland and what he does. She had been undermined by him so many times with the appointment of coaches and perhaps in other areas too and get little or no public support.
But she, like her appointments, are unlikely to find better should she leave, such is the nature of her engagement here. And she certainly can't leave a failure.
I mean, how odd is it to have a clause in your contract outside the network that should RD call you can follow freely? Because that's what Fraeye had, and it seems he knew he'd get a chance with RD that noone else was likely to offer.
Indeed. It seems Roland's main project these days is having a network of coaches. Then when another team, say a 3rd Division outfit in Belgium, needs a manager but doesn't want him on their payroll they come up with the idea of outsourcing team management and get in a contractor. Roland is becoming the football equivalent of Capita or Serco.
No sympathy here. The bloke was lurking in the shadows, making a direct contribution towards the current state we are in. When he finally stepped into the light to 'mastermind' a turnaround he got exposed for what he really his.
"working in England would be my preference, and although the perception might not be ideal, I am happy to feel the interest of some clubs.”
He genuinely thinks he'll get another job in England?! Arrogant prick lives in a dream world.
"But of course, my ambition is to manage and I don't know if this could happen working with the owner."
That's as telling as anything he said in my view, and absolutely damning.
I completely missed that nugget reading through the article.. that sums up how dire this situation really is. Even the network managers (and let's face it, we use that word very loosely with Karel.) are finding their position untenable working underneath Roland.
No, I didn't like Karel - and I made that so in one post where I, perhaps incorrectly, attacked his personality as being "bland and boring". However, he should never have got the job and I'm sure we've all taken on jobs where we are out of our depth - for some of us it will most likely have provided a make or break moment where we made it.
In the words of nobel prize winner Richard Feynman:
You have no responsibility to live up to what other people think you ought to accomplish. I have no responsibility to be like they expect me to be. It's their mistake, not my failing.
He was completely incapable of managing the squad and demonstrated some impressive levels of ineptitude - but that's not his fault, because he shouldn't have been put in the situation to begin with. It's the fault of those who put completely unrealistic expectations on a man who was woefully unqualified and inexperienced.
This is a re-ocurring theme and spans the entire level of employees - from the players like Polish Pete, to managers like Fraeye and even our CEO. This is Roland's way: gamble on those who aren't qualified - if it pays off, you've got someone on the cheap, if it doesn't - you didn't waste much money anyway.
No sympathy here. The bloke was lurking in the shadows, making a direct contribution towards the current state we are in. When he finally stepped into the light to 'mastermind' a turnaround he got exposed for what he really his.
"working in England would be my preference, and although the perception might not be ideal, I am happy to feel the interest of some clubs.”
He genuinely thinks he'll get another job in England?! Arrogant prick lives in a dream world.
The only way he'll get that is if he starts selling golfing equipment on Ebay
That interview and what we can glean from the day to day working at Roland Athletic demonstrates how utterly crap this management is. KF - brilliant apologist for himself, sorry none of that excuses or absolves you of anything in your murky role, and as for the rest of them, they make decisions as though they are completely off their faces. WHAT A FARCE. What a pathetic way to run a business, this is really the brave new world of football management is it Roland ? You utter muppet.
"But of course, my ambition is to manage and I don't know if this could happen working with the owner."
That's as telling as anything he said in my view, and absolutely damning.
And yet the CEO will, if ever asked about this, say "he's an ex-employee" as if that negates everything he and the many other ex-employees say.
Deep down I wonder if Katrien still really believes in Roland and what he does. She had been undermined by him so many times with the appointment of coaches and perhaps in other areas too and get little or no public support.
But she, like her appointments, are unlikely to find better should she leave, such is the nature of her engagement here. And she certainly can't leave a failure.
I mean, how odd is it to have a clause in your contract outside the network that should RD call you can follow freely? Because that's what Fraeye had, and it seems he knew he'd get a chance with RD that noone else was likely to offer.
True but of course he wasn't outside the network.
On HIS OWN ADMISSION he was scouting for the network. According to him only for the Spanish club even though he was based in Belgium and appears to have never worked in Spain. He did say to a fan that he'd been involved in scouting Igor and Bauer (Surprisingly he is involved with two success stories).
He also BY HIS OWN ADMISSION was watching every Charlton game, presumably on video or stream. Why would he bother to do that were he not at least a part of the Charlton scouting team?
"But of course, my ambition is to manage and I don't know if this could happen working with the owner."
That's as telling as anything he said in my view, and absolutely damning.
And yet the CEO will, if ever asked about this, say "he's an ex-employee" as if that negates everything he and the many other ex-employees say.
Deep down I wonder if Katrien still really believes in Roland and what he does. She had been undermined by him so many times with the appointment of coaches and perhaps in other areas too and get little or no public support.
But she, like her appointments, are unlikely to find better should she leave, such is the nature of her engagement here. And she certainly can't leave a failure.
I mean, how odd is it to have a clause in your contract outside the network that should RD call you can follow freely? Because that's what Fraeye had, and it seems he knew he'd get a chance with RD that noone else was likely to offer.
The Belgian posters on here repeatedly said that we shouldn't read too much into the fact that he was with VW Hamme as there was no way it was his main job.
Staprix was his main employment, scouting or whatever. VW Hamme was a hobby.
I doubt VW Hamme paid him much money, maybe some expenses. He was always employed by Staprix or a subsidiary of Staprix (possible STVV).
I had assumed that he was going back to the scouting role. If this interview means he is no longer in the network, then surely that has big implications for the RD model. In fact, it suggests that the footballing side of it has broken down, which, in turn, would suggest that Riga is closer to a British-style manager than a European-style Head Coach.
To get the true sense of the comment that even Mourinho couldn't keep that team up, replace the Mourinho bit with 'A good manager'.
Also, the problem I have with the admission that the network underestimated the Championship infers it happened in the past, but it has been a continuous underestimation.
Karel, you scouted the players and you had no idea how to motivate a team.
You were also never just an interim manager and you even went as far as putting pen to paper on a contract (one of the reasons why it never got published was because of the results)
No one is fooled karel
This a 100%
Too late now Fraeye to disown the network and the role you played in it from before Powell was sacked and even before Roland bought the club.
Spin as much as you like but you were the scout and you had a contract too.
Pete tried to pretend he'd met Fraeye once at Cray Wanderers and thought he was a good guy and so all his views on KF came from that. Only it seems that it was a lot more than that. Desperate had Fraeye's phones number, was most likely getting bits of spin along with free tickets and lounge passes to pass on here. Never an objective fan giving his view but Karel's mouthpiece.
And in all those conversations and cosy chats that Pete had with Fraeye, when Fraeye insisted he wasn't scouting for the network (except he has now admitted that his was) Pete never thought to ask the obvious questions - "If you weren't the one scouting the players before Powell was sacked what were you doing at the Valley and who was scouting and recommending the players?"
I know I should not bite but Henry you have a bile inducing way of imagining what happens in any area where you know absolutely fuck all. I understand that you do not like to be questioned about your 'knowledge' of all things relating to Charlton so I will try and leave you alone to your 'thoughts'! Incidentally I have tried to flag you before yet somehow they disappear.......
Probably because flags are meant to be for proper things. You're currently being the kid raising his hand to the teacher because the boy next to you pulled a funny face.
"But of course, my ambition is to manage and I don't know if this could happen working with the owner."
That's as telling as anything he said in my view, and absolutely damning.
I completely missed that nugget reading through the article.. that sums up how dire this situation really is. Even the network managers (and let's face it, we use that word very loosely with Karel.) are finding their position untenable working underneath Roland.
No, I didn't like Karel - and I made that so in one post where I, perhaps incorrectly, attacked his personality as being "bland and boring". However, he should never have got the job and I'm sure we've all taken on jobs where we are out of our depth - for some of us it will most likely have provided a make or break moment where we made it.
In the words of nobel prize winner Richard Feynman:
You have no responsibility to live up to what other people think you ought to accomplish. I have no responsibility to be like they expect me to be. It's their mistake, not my failing.
He was completely incapable of managing the squad and demonstrated some impressive levels of ineptitude - but that's not his fault, because he shouldn't have been put in the situation to begin with. It's the fault of those who put completely unrealistic expectations on a man who was woefully unqualified and inexperienced.
This is a re-ocurring theme and spans the entire level of employees - from the players like Polish Pete, to managers like Fraeye and even our CEO. This is Roland's way: gamble on those who aren't qualified - if it pays off, you've got someone on the cheap, if it doesn't - you didn't waste much money anyway.
If it wasn't for the fact he was actively seeking the role I would probably agree with you, but even after he left as assistant to Riga he was making comments that some day he would be back. It IS his fault in my book, because he was after a job that he was grossly under qualified for. If I actively go looking for a job that is clearly above my station, and I fail at it, I can't blame it all on the person that gave me the opportunity, I have to take some responsibility myself.
Took me a while to add my thoughts to this article, I'm still laughing at the fact Fraeye thinks he can get another job in England. If I was to become an owner that wants to ruin a team (Palace when I win Euromillions) I would genuinely recruit KF as chief scout and head coach, and ask him to try his best... Within 5 or so years the job should be complete. He's clueless.
I think we should have a flag panel - where the great and the good on Charlton life can assess a flag, submitted by a recipient who thinks it's issue was unfair, and if they deem it to be unjust, it gets given to the sender. Will cut out all this nonsense.
Every time people discuss flags and/or bemoan receiving one.. I always have the peculiar urge to flag them. Do other people get this or am I just an asshole?
Every time people discuss flags and/or bemoan receiving one.. I always have the peculiar urge to flag them. Do other people get this or am I just an asshole?
Somebody is going to flag you now for discussing you know what?
Every time people discuss flags and/or bemoan receiving one.. I always have the peculiar urge to flag them. Do other people get this or am I just an asshole?
Somebody is going to flag you now for discussing you know what?
Always look on the bright side - if that happens then I can take it as evidence that I'm not an asshole..
Every time people discuss flags and/or bemoan receiving one.. I always have the peculiar urge to flag them. Do other people get this or am I just an asshole?
Think some are (and have been) overly critical of Fraeye. This isn't to say I think he's a brilliant manager but he definitely didn't have the easiest of situations. It's also good of him to come out and do the interview and be (on the face of it) pretty honest about what has gone on. True he could take some responsibility for what has happened but he never completely blames it on the situation instead it's phrases like "never makes it easier". If anything this interview is more damning on Roland and Katrien.
Every time people discuss flags and/or bemoan receiving one.. I always have the peculiar urge to flag them. Do other people get this or am I just an asshole?
One thing that does come across, in general and after reading that interview, is that when Ms Meire eventually tries to do the right thing she is constantly over-ruled by M. Duchatelet. He seems to be the worst possible combination of absentee and micro-managing owner.
This is one of the major problems at the club. RD hires people who will put up with his level of micromanaging and overruling of decisions made on the ground. He makes the major decisions but is never accountable of the mistakes made and fires those under him for the decisions that he imposes upon them.
I agree, and because these people are by definition inadequate for the roles given to them, they are always likely to make poor decisions in areas where they are allowed discretion, including the next tier of staff. So you have a thoroughly useless administration at all significant levels, albeit with a few decent people hanging on against the tide.
Post of the day, this is a very accurate statement.
One thing that does come across, in general and after reading that interview, is that when Ms Meire eventually tries to do the right thing she is constantly over-ruled by M. Duchatelet. He seems to be the worst possible combination of absentee and micro-managing owner.
This is one of the major problems at the club. RD hires people who will put up with his level of micromanaging and overruling of decisions made on the ground. He makes the major decisions but is never accountable of the mistakes made and fires those under him for the decisions that he imposes upon them.
I agree, and because these people are by definition inadequate for the roles given to them, they are always likely to make poor decisions in areas where they are allowed discretion, including the next tier of staff. So you have a thoroughly useless administration at all significant levels, albeit with a few decent people hanging on against the tide.
Post of the day, this is a very accurate statement.
Is this a thing? If it isn't it certainly should be. POTD, POTW, POTM & POTY.
Comments
All rather sad, but ultimately I am more inclined to file Fraeyes statement under the bitter ex employee than I am others.
What they say is much less important to me (though I would like
improvedsome communication); I hear more than enough lies when they escape my lips (and that is not a reference to a recently acquired ex-France international defender).I mean, how odd is it to have a clause in your contract outside the network that should RD call you can follow freely? Because that's what Fraeye had, and it seems he knew he'd get a chance with RD that noone else was likely to offer.
For all we know Jacko and Hendo thought it wrong and unprofessional to say they wanted the manager gone - and decided against this, offering to help rally the team themselves as senior players.
Alternatively, they may have expressed a desire for a new manager to be found (which, actually, is in keeping with Fraeye's own intepretation that the players wanted a permanent manager) and were told it wasn't going to happen, so they would had to agree to get behind Karel.
All we know is that when Karel entered the room he was informed that the players would be backing him and were behind him. Let's face it, if this really was the case then why would that meeting even have happened?
Who was that masked Belgian who told us"the squad is good enough" ? the same one that said"we can only play 11 at a time".
Is it in the Belgian DNA to talk utter bollox and believe that it will believed ?
Take this anyway you want old chap but feck off and NEVER darken The Valley again.
PS look up the word TOADY
"working in England would be my preference, and although the perception might not be ideal, I am happy to feel the interest of some clubs.”
He genuinely thinks he'll get another job in England?! Arrogant prick lives in a dream world.
No, I didn't like Karel - and I made that so in one post where I, perhaps incorrectly, attacked his personality as being "bland and boring". However, he should never have got the job and I'm sure we've all taken on jobs where we are out of our depth - for some of us it will most likely have provided a make or break moment where we made it.
In the words of nobel prize winner Richard Feynman: He was completely incapable of managing the squad and demonstrated some impressive levels of ineptitude - but that's not his fault, because he shouldn't have been put in the situation to begin with. It's the fault of those who put completely unrealistic expectations on a man who was woefully unqualified and inexperienced.
This is a re-ocurring theme and spans the entire level of employees - from the players like Polish Pete, to managers like Fraeye and even our CEO. This is Roland's way: gamble on those who aren't qualified - if it pays off, you've got someone on the cheap, if it doesn't - you didn't waste much money anyway.
He just needs to show he can do it at the highest level
WHAT A FARCE.
What a pathetic way to run a business, this is really the brave new world of football management is it Roland ?
You utter muppet.
On HIS OWN ADMISSION he was scouting for the network. According to him only for the Spanish club even though he was based in Belgium and appears to have never worked in Spain. He did say to a fan that he'd been involved in scouting Igor and Bauer (Surprisingly he is involved with two success stories).
He also BY HIS OWN ADMISSION was watching every Charlton game, presumably on video or stream. Why would he bother to do that were he not at least a part of the Charlton scouting team?
Staprix was his main employment, scouting or whatever. VW Hamme was a hobby.
I doubt VW Hamme paid him much money, maybe some expenses. He was always employed by Staprix or a subsidiary of Staprix (possible STVV).
I had assumed that he was going back to the scouting role. If this interview means he is no longer in the network, then surely that has big implications for the RD model. In fact, it suggests that the footballing side of it has broken down, which, in turn, would suggest that Riga is closer to a British-style manager than a European-style Head Coach.
Also, the problem I have with the admission that the network underestimated the Championship infers it happened in the past, but it has been a continuous underestimation.
Did you want Roger Johnson or was he foisted on you ?
That is all.
This is a re-ocurring theme and spans the entire level of employees - from the players like Polish Pete, to managers like Fraeye and even our CEO. This is Roland's way: gamble on those who aren't qualified - if it pays off, you've got someone on the cheap, if it doesn't - you didn't waste much money anyway.
If it wasn't for the fact he was actively seeking the role I would probably agree with you, but even after he left as assistant to Riga he was making comments that some day he would be back. It IS his fault in my book, because he was after a job that he was grossly under qualified for. If I actively go looking for a job that is clearly above my station, and I fail at it, I can't blame it all on the person that gave me the opportunity, I have to take some responsibility myself.