Really good, thorough write-up. And I'm not just saying that cos I've realised Rick sits 2 metres behind me every week
Thanks. Interested in what people think. I am not imagining we can go back to the 2000s but I’m equally clear that we won’t succeed without that connection with fans, whether it’s via the manager, the team or the board/owners.
Good article in a London paper and just goes to show how well run Charlton were only 20 years ago. So sad that so many supporters who have stood up and fought the cause for the club have passed away . One day our battle will be won and the club will once again be run correctly.
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
Not selling to AEG before that. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.
We need to utilise the 12th man - the crowd - to get enough wins to be safe. Another journeyman manager/head coach will not make this happen. But the appointment of Powell, Bowyer or JJ would.
Some on here talking about an appointment for now and then another appointment in the summer - really? Do we really want even more change?
Curtis talked a good game the other day. I think he and Pearcey should have enough nous to steady the ship for tomorrow but we need the owners/board to splash the cash and bring in the “right” person - whoever that may be - as soon as possible. Whoever that is will be part of rebuilding the squad for next season and we really don’t want to have to be getting out of League 2.
As always Rick writes very well and I am a fan of his but as per my blog today - at least for the younger supporters- my son has just introduced grandson Teddy to the world and he wants to look forward and be optimistic- Rick ( and please don’t shoot me for this ) tends to be pessimistic and rather miserable - I know there are plenty of reasons to be downbeat but life’s tough enough already and I for one am making a real attempt to be more optimistic in 24 !!
Really good, thorough write-up. And I'm not just saying that cos I've realised Rick sits 2 metres behind me every week
Thanks. Interested in what people think. I am not imagining we can go back to the 2000s but I’m equally clear that we won’t succeed without that connection with fans, whether it’s via the manager, the team or the board/owners.
My initial thought was how lucky I am to have gown up in the early 90s watching this club. What perfect timing my first ever game being the 5th December 1992 and riding that wave as a fan. Now I’m worried my son will never experience that and may never see us outside the third tier.
Regarding the future, I just don’t know. Having a board and a manager that actually genuinely cares about our fans and heritage would be a start.
FWIW I don't think we are likely to get out of this state all the time we have the wrong people at the helm.
Whilst it's on the pitch that matters, even success like Bowyer managed won't last without the right people running it at the top.
In reality whether Owner/CEO/COO/Chairman etc etc and those they employ have in the main been dreadful for 10+ years and I've seen nothing from the latest crowd to think we've now got the right people, far from it.
FWIW I don't think we are likely to get out of this state all the time we have the wrong people at the helm.
Whilst it's on the pitch that matters, even success like Bowyer managed won't last without the right people running it at the top.
In reality whether Owner/CEO/COO/Chairman etc etc and those they employ have in the main been dreadful for 10+ years and I've seen nothing from the latest crowd to think we've now got the right people, far from it.
How do we know we don’t have the right people running it? By all accounts they have been working to improve the running of things behind the scenes and it seems clear they get what needs to be done. If we were top of the league (ultimately it’s the performance of the first team that matters) people would be quite happy with the owners.
A poor run of results does for any manager, but did Apples not getting our club and being alienated from our fans really contribute to his? I don't think so. He just wasn't very good organizing the resources at his disposal here.
The next man in needs to win matches, whether an Alan Curbishley or a Joey Barton. If he doesn't, few fans will be patient given our current placing.
A poor run of results does for any manager, but did Apples not getting our club and being alienated from our fans really contribute to his? I don't think so. He just wasn't very good organizing the resources at his disposal here.
The next man in needs to win matches, whether an Alan Curbishley or a Joey Barton. If he doesn't, few fans will be patient given our current placing.
It certainly didn't do him any favours. If he had shown any humility or even some sort of enthusiasm then he probably would not have got the level of personal abuse that he did.
Look at the difference between him and Holden. Most people I think probably saw that Holden needed to go but wished him well personally, whereas Appleton had people who actively loathed him.
Results are by far the biggest factor, but personality is part of it too.
The interview with the three directors told us all. They talked, diversity, match day experience. It’s simple, successful football on the pitch, that’s what fans want.
If those three do not understand that then absolutely no chance
It was a very good summary of our situation although I think there is hope. There is always hope. Like there was hope under Powell and then Bowyer. In both cases, for different reasons, the ownership failed to build on that when there was a clear opportunity to do so. Would the new ownership do the same? I don't think so but I am not sure they have the nous to get into that position although a bit of luck can do that. Bowyer was definitely luck and the cheap option. That luck could be that Fleming and Pearce could be a great team. I admit there is straw clutching but maybe less so than if we appoint a manager who opposing fans wanted out as much as Charlton fans wanted Appleton out.
Then I think the galvanising of support in the 2019 play off run showed that if you build it they will come. I think the nature of the area has changed to the point where there is potentially more support but you have to give them something to support. I will always be a Charlton supporter but I have to acknowledge that all I have got for it over recent years is kick after kick in the teeth. It is a job going to watch us rather than a pleasure and the Valley when rocking is an exhilarating experience, an experience Alex Ferguson commented on in our Premier League days, but a souless, depressing one when only a third full, or less. How can new fans be expected to turn up under those conditions and how do youngsters nag their parents to take them?
I think the solution is to find the right manager, which involves more luck than owners and some fans care to adimt, which we did do with Powell and Bowyer and then back them. Then the mood music changes and the fans start returning because it is not such a terrible experience, quite the opposite. An experience where you are often buzzing for days afterwards, not wanting to cry unless you can think of something else.
FWIW I don't think we are likely to get out of this state all the time we have the wrong people at the helm.
Whilst it's on the pitch that matters, even success like Bowyer managed won't last without the right people running it at the top.
In reality whether Owner/CEO/COO/Chairman etc etc and those they employ have in the main been dreadful for 10+ years and I've seen nothing from the latest crowd to think we've now got the right people, far from it.
How do we know we don’t have the right people running it? By all accounts they have been working to improve the running of things behind the scenes and it seems clear they get what needs to be done. If we were top of the league (ultimately it’s the performance of the first team that matters) people would be quite happy with the owners.
I hope you are right mate. Unfortunately, the past decade has made it very hard for fans to trust those at the helm.
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
when we sold parker (i know we didn't want to) was the moment the trajectory changed - at that point we had raised our heads above the parapet and got picked off and if there was a time to bring in new investment so we could give AC the funds to adequately re build, it was then - after that we were treading water and although AC did a good job with what he had, it was only a matter of time - you can only pull rabbits out of the hat for so long and once he inevitably left, the over performing ended and the under performing started.
Nothing stays the same. it went wrong when Richard Murray ( in general a good Chairman) got a bit “ big for his boots”. We should have stayed “ little old Charlton”. curbs needed two experienced players at a modest sum. He did not get them. Curbs left. Murray played a silly game and appointed Dowie. Dowie got more money for transfers than Curbs ever got- he bought rubbish.
It is another well written piece and one you would struggle to argue with. Why would you want to? But for the level of involvement sought I have a nasty feeling we ran the well of wealthy Charlton followers dry long ago while the scale of funding needed to restore the club to even 2010 levels is beyond all but a few individuals.
We had one. I have no ambition to revisit that space.
All of that said are we into todays world, beyond the actual decline, so different from anyone else. Where would Palace be without Parish or Millwall without Berylson? I am pretty sure Brighton, Brentford, Luton will be happy with the scheme of things but does Watford really work and where does Bournemouth go from here? Sheffield Wednesday scramble on, Reading are failing, Portsmouth may have finally gained a foothold etc.,
Equally I am not sure quite where we all became so needy. Maybe it is in direct proportion to the decline. The worse it gets the more needy we become. In terms of skillsets the modern demands of the industry create a very different expectation. We have ended up demanding the corporate expectations of a consumer where we are deeply offended at ….being viewed as a consumer.
The stakeholder perception whilst valid does not really come with the price tag associated with any other industry.
As it stands in terms of global wall to wall football/ soccer (How many of us are watching the AFCON tournament) League 1 does not register, beyond narrow local interest and football obsessives, as more than background noise.
Things like the ESL proposals are most palpably not about the local engagement, match day experience and personal interaction. Their ambitions are about control of the media, electronic clicks and remote client revenues.
Does Charlton have something to offer? It does. Can it, where social media pressures allow no time, restore its fortunes over time? It is not impossible but the churn seen over the past 2 decades could hardly have come at a worst time to the point many of us may not be around to see it.
Will it ever be the same? No. Will it be good enough? That is for other generations to decide.
To that end right now, though the current performance across the business is very disappointing, I am not sure simply focusing on the wins is such a bad thing. Good results will cover a multitude of sins.
A poor run of results does for any manager, but did Apples not getting our club and being alienated from our fans really contribute to this? I don't think so. He just wasn't very good organizing the resources at his disposal here.
The next man in needs to win matches, whether an Alan Curbishley or a Joey Barton. If he doesn't, few fans will be patient given our current placing.
One thing it does but you is a bit of time. The fans were not sure about him from the start and his visible attitude toward the club and fans were clear to see and only exasperated their thoughts.
Now it may have only been 1, 2 maybe 3 games, but if he had turned it around in those games who knows?
It's one of the reasons I think this shakey ownership wanted Powell
i think the appointment of the next manager is critical - he needs to be good and he needs to be given the power to choose his own players and play the formation he wants - this 'director of football' model also came about at the time curbs left - bowyer and powell were given the full reigns but how many others have had players pushed on to them and styles of play imposed - give warnock a year with total control and he'll have put together a team that will go straight up and we will be back where we belong and where most of us will be happy with
Comments
Twenty years ago this week, Charlton were fourth in the Premier League, well clear of Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City.
So sad that so many supporters who have stood up and fought the cause for the club have passed away . One day our battle will be won and the club will once again be run correctly.
I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be
I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
Wins and points would help.
Some on here talking about an appointment for now and then another appointment in the summer - really? Do we really want even more change?
Curtis talked a good game the other day. I think he and Pearcey should have enough nous to steady the ship for tomorrow but we need the owners/board to splash the cash and bring in the “right” person - whoever that may be - as soon as possible. Whoever that is will be part of rebuilding the squad for next season and we really don’t want to have to be getting out of League 2.
I know there are plenty of reasons to be downbeat but life’s tough enough already and I for one am making a real attempt to be more optimistic in 24 !!
Regarding the future, I just don’t know. Having a board and a manager that actually genuinely cares about our fans and heritage would be a start.
FWIW I don't think we are likely to get out of this state all the time we have the wrong people at the helm.
Whilst it's on the pitch that matters, even success like Bowyer managed won't last without the right people running it at the top.
In reality whether Owner/CEO/COO/Chairman etc etc and those they employ have in the main been dreadful for 10+ years and I've seen nothing from the latest crowd to think we've now got the right people, far from it.
Not always easy when you care so passionately about the subject.
The next man in needs to win matches, whether an Alan Curbishley or a Joey Barton. If he doesn't, few fans will be patient given our current placing.
Look at the difference between him and Holden. Most people I think probably saw that Holden needed to go but wished him well personally, whereas Appleton had people who actively loathed him.
Results are by far the biggest factor, but personality is part of it too.
That money would be better spent on the three most important things: the football, the football and the football.
Then I think the galvanising of support in the 2019 play off run showed that if you build it they will come. I think the nature of the area has changed to the point where there is potentially more support but you have to give them something to support. I will always be a Charlton supporter but I have to acknowledge that all I have got for it over recent years is kick after kick in the teeth. It is a job going to watch us rather than a pleasure and the Valley when rocking is an exhilarating experience, an experience Alex Ferguson commented on in our Premier League days, but a souless, depressing one when only a third full, or less. How can new fans be expected to turn up under those conditions and how do youngsters nag their parents to take them?
I think the solution is to find the right manager, which involves more luck than owners and some fans care to adimt, which we did do with Powell and Bowyer and then back them. Then the mood music changes and the fans start returning because it is not such a terrible experience, quite the opposite. An experience where you are often buzzing for days afterwards, not wanting to cry unless you can think of something else.
it went wrong when Richard Murray ( in general a good Chairman) got a bit “ big for his boots”. We should have stayed “ little old Charlton”.
curbs needed two experienced players at a modest sum. He did not get them. Curbs left. Murray played a silly game and appointed Dowie. Dowie got more money for transfers than Curbs ever got- he bought rubbish.
We had one. I have no ambition to revisit that space.
All of that said are we into todays world, beyond the actual decline, so different from anyone else. Where would Palace be without Parish or Millwall without Berylson? I am pretty sure Brighton, Brentford, Luton will be happy with the scheme of things but does Watford really work and where does Bournemouth go from here? Sheffield Wednesday scramble on, Reading are failing, Portsmouth may have finally gained a foothold etc.,
Equally I am not sure quite where we all became so needy. Maybe it is in direct proportion to the decline. The worse it gets the more needy we become. In terms of skillsets the modern demands of the industry create a very different expectation. We have ended up demanding the corporate expectations of a consumer where we are deeply offended at ….being viewed as a consumer.
The stakeholder perception whilst valid does not really come with the price tag associated with any other industry.
As it stands in terms of global wall to wall football/ soccer (How many of us are watching the AFCON tournament) League 1 does not register, beyond narrow local interest and football obsessives, as more than background noise.
Things like the ESL proposals are most palpably not about the local engagement, match day experience and personal interaction. Their ambitions are about control of the media, electronic clicks and remote client revenues.
Does Charlton have something to offer? It does. Can it, where social media pressures allow no time, restore its fortunes over time? It is not impossible but the churn seen over the past 2 decades could hardly have come at a worst time to the point many of us may not be around to see it.
Will it ever be the same? No. Will it be good enough? That is for other generations to decide.
To that end right now, though the current performance across the business is very disappointing, I am not sure simply focusing on the wins is such a bad thing. Good results will cover a multitude of sins.
Now it may have only been 1, 2 maybe 3 games, but if he had turned it around in those games who knows?
It's one of the reasons I think this shakey ownership wanted Powell