I am expecting 80%of fans to stand and sing "We want the belgians Out " for at least most of the game on saturday - Please please do not let this opportunity pass us by. COYR!
Airman - bearing in mind a first meeting hasnt even been held yet (between Varney and the Cafc leadership team / owner), is it realistic to think that there is any chance of a takeover being concluded before the end of the transfer window?...as you mention the window being key to our survival and the reason why a more significant protest needs to take place at the forest game / now.
Surely even if Roland agreed to sell this week it would take longer than the end of Jan to carry out due dilligence on such a complex purchase (when you consider the debts owed to previous board members / valuation of the new training ground facilities etc).
This is an obstacle but don't believe it can't be overcome. Bear in mind that PV knows a great deal about the club and the historic debt issues. It would be a lot more manageable in the first week of January than in the fourth one!
It was stated yesterday that it was a full takeover.
If what is proposed is a full takeover but RD is a reluctant seller, which it would seem he is, then it makes zero difference to RD that the ex-directors may be prepared to negotiate with the "buyer" what's due to them. It's only if RD wants to sell, some or all of his holding, that he needs their co-operation or could be incentivised by some give on their part (if that is what is being suggested).
Agreed, but the willingness of the ex-directors to negotiate if RD can be persuaded is of value. Some people seemed to think that whole £7m is owed to RM.
AB have they ever vetoed a takeover? I seem to recall they vetoed a debt restructure under TJ and wotisiface, but still no sure why this is significant
Airman - bearing in mind a first meeting hasnt even been held yet (between Varney and the Cafc leadership team / owner), is it realistic to think that there is any chance of a takeover being concluded before the end of the transfer window?...as you mention the window being key to our survival and the reason why a more significant protest needs to take place at the forest game / now.
Surely even if Roland agreed to sell this week it would take longer than the end of Jan to carry out due dilligence on such a complex purchase (when you consider the debts owed to previous board members / valuation of the new training ground facilities etc).
Gets quicker if ex directors waive the debt though...
And why would they do that? Legally secured, they now have what is equivalent to a lottery ticket?
Airman - bearing in mind a first meeting hasnt even been held yet (between Varney and the Cafc leadership team / owner), is it realistic to think that there is any chance of a takeover being concluded before the end of the transfer window?...as you mention the window being key to our survival and the reason why a more significant protest needs to take place at the forest game / now.
Surely even if Roland agreed to sell this week it would take longer than the end of Jan to carry out due dilligence on such a complex purchase (when you consider the debts owed to previous board members / valuation of the new training ground facilities etc).
Gets quicker if ex directors waive the debt though...
And why would they do that? Legally secured, they now have what is equivalent to a lottery ticket?
It's a bit more than that, because if the club goes bust they have to be paid before Duchatelet/Staprix.
Fair enough Airman. Agree that PV's knowledge will be an advantage and if the legal representatives that would be required in any sale were well incentivised to complete a deal in time for a new owner to add to the playing staff before the end of Jan then it could be possible.
On the basis that Roland doesnt have the option to borrow players from liege this year (the likes of bulot and buyens have made the difference in the past) and doesnt look prepared to invest the circa £3-5m needed to keep us in this league, he would be mad not to meet with PV and discuss a 'get out of jail' sale before the club is relegated and worth far less.
The fans made it clear that they support a change on Sat and it goes without saying that Katrien cannot be enjoying her role at moment so fingers crossed they take up this opportunity which would be best for everyone involved. As fans we all wanted it to work but RD & KM just arent suited to football and unfortunately don't have a strategy that will ever work (a network of weak clubs and scouts adds nothing to a very competitive league like the championship where only significant investment in the 1st team brings success).
This is all very theoretical but isn't it likely that the first hints about RD possibly getting out is a fire sale of any asset (player) with a value ?
If talks about a takeover got past square one then am I correct in thinking that any movement of money has to be 'agreed' by both parties ? In which case, RD is likely to act BEFORE that occurs (eg Watt from Liege).
This is all very theoretical but isn't it likely that the first hints about RD possibly getting out is a fire sale of any asset (player) with a value ?
Watt is going tomorrow, JBG Saturday and Lookman on Sunday.
This is all very theoretical but isn't it likely that the first hints about RD possibly getting out is a fire sale of any asset (player) with a value ?
I doubt that very much for two reasons:
1. Charlton has a reputation as a selling club so such a move won't be unexpected. 2. Many players who have an asset value will be looking to move somewhere where their present or future footballing ability will be valued, nurtured and appreciated by the management. I really can't see some of them sticking it out for much longer.
This is all very theoretical but isn't it likely that the first hints about RD possibly getting out is a fire sale of any asset (player) with a value ?
I doubt that very much for two reasons:
1. Charlton has a reputation as a selling club so such a move won't be unexpected. 2. Many players who have an asset value will be looking to move somewhere where their present or future footballing ability will be valued, nurtured and appreciated by the management. I really can't see some of them sticking it out for much longer.
It cant surely be a co-incidence that last week, all our big name/influential players werent playing... Bauer/Kashi/JBG/Vetokele/Diarra/ - ok, there are some long-term injuries involved, but still seems strange.
I was thnking more along the lines of the players dont really want to play for us anymore.
Possibly but I wouldn't put Kashi in there who is long term injured or Vetokele who apparently is unsettled but yet to prove he is fully fit after such a long absence. Diarra is just suffering with knocks from being unable to rest them with the busy match schedule at present. Bauer also carrying an abdominal injury and I don't see any wanting away in their performances or body language. Now JBG hmmmmm.
I was thnking more along the lines of the players dont really want to play for us anymore.
Will become clear when it comes to contract renewal time. I wouldn't want to stay at the club in its current state unless I was at the swansong of my career and unlikely to get a better offer elsewhere. May even see players engineering moves via their agents. Can't imagine JBG will want to hang around after appearing in the Euros particularly if we are relegated. Albeit he'll be sold by then.
I think RD has lost interest in the network experiment altogether and is scaling back with a view to getting out.
First there was the sale of Liege, then there was the news last week that he has stepped down as President of Alcorcon, we know he holds no real interest in Ujpest (his son runs the Club which he obtained as payment of a debt) and he has no real influence over Jena.
I am guessing that the complete lack of real, meaningful investment in the playing squad and coaching staff at Charlton this season is due to the fact that he has had enough of the experiment and wants out so isn't willing to inject any more funding. It is the only explanation I can think of for the complete farce of a situation we find ourselves in with the interim coach and woefully thin playing squad.
If I am right then this can only be good news for the club and the fans but what worries me is that 1) we will see a complete fire sale of all the players that can command a semi-decent fee so he can recoup some of the losses (which he did at Liege) and 2) he is stubborn and will only leave the club on his terms. This could mean that he is willing to sell up but only after he has stripped the club bare on the playing side and once the January transfer window is closed.
Hopefully I am barking up the wrong tree completely and we see a takeover before the end of January transfer window but I am not going to hold my breath on that front considering the eccentric bloke we have in charge at present!
But if you were right, he would surely be following up even the slightest interest from other parties which doesn't seem to be the case. I doubt he really knows what he can do now, but it is now between taking the financial hit not selling is, or admitting he has failed. Failed as he did with his political party. I'm sure that is what is keeping this lunatic in. I think his ego has become a monster. But there will come a point where even he has to admit defeat. The problem is, that point is probably also a point where the club we love is dead or nearly dead!
I was thnking more along the lines of the players dont really want to play for us anymore.
Possibly but I wouldn't put Kashi in there who is long term injured or Vetokele who apparently is unsettled but yet to prove he is fully fit after such a long absence. Diarra is just suffering with knocks from being unable to rest them with the busy match schedule at present. Bauer also carrying an abdominal injury and I don't see any wanting away in their performances or body language. Now JBG hmmmmm.
If Diarra and Bauer were actually not wanting to play for us can you imagine seeing out the rest of the season with Lennon and Sarr at the back. By no means do I think Lennon is a bad player but jesus christ...
But if you were right, he would surely be following up even the slightest interest from other parties which doesn't seem to be the case.
Agreed but goes back to my point about him being stubborn and doing things his own way. He could well be interested in talking to potential new investors but not until he is ready (after he has asset stripped the club!).
I suppose the flip side of this view is that if he assets strips then looks to sell on that will surely devalue the club.
Maybe I should try and give up guessing what will be RD's next move as I am pretty sure he doesn't have a clue himself either!!!
Lennon is currently a decent League One player. Will be an asset if we are relegated. As will Harriot. Sarr could become a very good player, but has a lot of learning to do still and is a liability this season.
Sadly I think anybody hoping that a deal could be done before the transfer windows ends might be a tad over-optimistic. Only saying, based on the fact that it took the best part of 3 months to try and arrange a 30 minute meeting and they could even get that over the line! I fear the worst.... And I hate to say it but I genuinely thing that going into administration may be preferable to continuing with these lying clowns in charge, as someone has said on here before. It didn't exactly harm Palarse or Southampton did it?
But if you were right, he would surely be following up even the slightest interest from other parties which doesn't seem to be the case.
Agreed but goes back to my point about him being stubborn and doing things his own way. He could well be interested in talking to potential new investors but not until he is ready (after he has asset stripped the club!).
I suppose the flip side of this view is that if he assets strips then looks to sell on that will surely devalue the club.
Maybe I should try and give up guessing what will be RD's next move as I am pretty sure he doesn't have a clue himself either!!!
Having thought a bit more about my earlier post I have come to this as a possible conclusion.
Asset stripping can only happen in a transfer window. If he had met with PV earlier, my other point may have kicked in - prospective buyers would veto any attempts at asset stripping, hence keeping PV on the end of a piece of string. RD must know that PV, as a supporter, would hang on longer than, say, a Josh Harris. I fear the worst!
Also, on your other point, it is unlikely that player values would be fully appreciated in a sale price for the club.
But if you were right, he would surely be following up even the slightest interest from other parties which doesn't seem to be the case.
Agreed but goes back to my point about him being stubborn and doing things his own way. He could well be interested in talking to potential new investors but not until he is ready (after he has asset stripped the club!).
I suppose the flip side of this view is that if he assets strips then looks to sell on that will surely devalue the club.
Maybe I should try and give up guessing what will be RD's next move as I am pretty sure he doesn't have a clue himself either!!!
Having thought a bit more about my earlier post I have come to this as a possible conclusion.
Asset stripping can only happen in a transfer window. If he had met with PV earlier, my other point may have kicked in - prospective buyers would veto any attempts at asset stripping, hence keeping PV on the end of a piece of string. RD must know that PV, as a supporter, would hang on longer than, say, a Josh Harris. I fear the worst!
Also, on your other point, it is unlikely that player values would be fully appreciated in a sale price for the club.
Sell the better players and the value of the club goes down too.
Airman - bearing in mind a first meeting hasnt even been held yet (between Varney and the Cafc leadership team / owner), is it realistic to think that there is any chance of a takeover being concluded before the end of the transfer window?...as you mention the window being key to our survival and the reason why a more significant protest needs to take place at the forest game / now.
Surely even if Roland agreed to sell this week it would take longer than the end of Jan to carry out due dilligence on such a complex purchase (when you consider the debts owed to previous board members / valuation of the new training ground facilities etc).
This is an obstacle but don't believe it can't be overcome. Bear in mind that PV knows a great deal about the club and the historic debt issues. It would be a lot more manageable in the first week of January than in the fourth one!
It was stated yesterday that it was a full takeover.
If what is proposed is a full takeover but RD is a reluctant seller, which it would seem he is, then it makes zero difference to RD that the ex-directors may be prepared to negotiate with the "buyer" what's due to them. It's only if RD wants to sell, some or all of his holding, that he needs their co-operation or could be incentivised by some give on their part (if that is what is being suggested).
Agreed, but the willingness of the ex-directors to negotiate if RD can be persuaded is of value. Some people seemed to think that whole £7m is owed to RM.
Airman, sorry if this has already been asked and I've missed it. Do you think a sale could still go through even if we're relegated?
But if you were right, he would surely be following up even the slightest interest from other parties which doesn't seem to be the case.
Agreed but goes back to my point about him being stubborn and doing things his own way. He could well be interested in talking to potential new investors but not until he is ready (after he has asset stripped the club!).
I suppose the flip side of this view is that if he assets strips then looks to sell on that will surely devalue the club.
Maybe I should try and give up guessing what will be RD's next move as I am pretty sure he doesn't have a clue himself either!!!
Having thought a bit more about my earlier post I have come to this as a possible conclusion.
Asset stripping can only happen in a transfer window. If he had met with PV earlier, my other point may have kicked in - prospective buyers would veto any attempts at asset stripping, hence keeping PV on the end of a piece of string. RD must know that PV, as a supporter, would hang on longer than, say, a Josh Harris. I fear the worst!
Also, on your other point, it is unlikely that player values would be fully appreciated in a sale price for the club.
I think many of us have feared the worst for some time but all the while there is hope and the likes of Airman, Prague, Henry and A2TR are on the case there is still a chance that a backlash from the fans might stop this car crash (should be train really for us addicks :smiley ) from happening.
I understand all the damage that the club would suffer from relegation but if it means the circus moves out of town then end goal achieved. It's RD's choice, do a 180* about turn, get the cheque book out to protect his investment thus far or save all the aggro and accept a reasonable offer for the club or worst case scenario asset strip and get out.
If it proves to be the latter course of action and there are still interested parties out there to take on the challenge we come again as we have done before. Here's hoping for the best, Happy new year everybody and keep up the good fight. 'Charlton till I die'.
Comments
Good man.
So if RD was willing to sell, the buyer would also need to talk to/negotiate, with the ex-directors.
Who knows on the outcome of talks. Continue the debt, reduce it, write it off ?
But if they were unwilling to talk, it could scupper any sale.
Going to try to drag my boys along too.
On the basis that Roland doesnt have the option to borrow players from liege this year (the likes of bulot and buyens have made the difference in the past) and doesnt look prepared to invest the circa £3-5m needed to keep us in this league, he would be mad not to meet with PV and discuss a 'get out of jail' sale before the club is relegated and worth far less.
The fans made it clear that they support a change on Sat and it goes without saying that Katrien cannot be enjoying her role at moment so fingers crossed they take up this opportunity which would be best for everyone involved. As fans we all wanted it to work but RD & KM just arent suited to football and unfortunately don't have a strategy that will ever work (a network of weak clubs and scouts adds nothing to a very competitive league like the championship where only significant investment in the 1st team brings success).
Good luck
If talks about a takeover got past square one then am I correct in thinking that any movement of money has to be 'agreed' by both parties ? In which case, RD is likely to act BEFORE that occurs (eg Watt from Liege).
1. Charlton has a reputation as a selling club so such a move won't be unexpected.
2. Many players who have an asset value will be looking to move somewhere where their present or future footballing ability will be valued, nurtured and appreciated by the management. I really can't see some of them sticking it out for much longer.
First there was the sale of Liege, then there was the news last week that he has stepped down as President of Alcorcon, we know he holds no real interest in Ujpest (his son runs the Club which he obtained as payment of a debt) and he has no real influence over Jena.
I am guessing that the complete lack of real, meaningful investment in the playing squad and coaching staff at Charlton this season is due to the fact that he has had enough of the experiment and wants out so isn't willing to inject any more funding. It is the only explanation I can think of for the complete farce of a situation we find ourselves in with the interim coach and woefully thin playing squad.
If I am right then this can only be good news for the club and the fans but what worries me is that 1) we will see a complete fire sale of all the players that can command a semi-decent fee so he can recoup some of the losses (which he did at Liege) and 2) he is stubborn and will only leave the club on his terms. This could mean that he is willing to sell up but only after he has stripped the club bare on the playing side and once the January transfer window is closed.
Hopefully I am barking up the wrong tree completely and we see a takeover before the end of January transfer window but I am not going to hold my breath on that front considering the eccentric bloke we have in charge at present!
I suppose the flip side of this view is that if he assets strips then looks to sell on that will surely devalue the club.
Maybe I should try and give up guessing what will be RD's next move as I am pretty sure he doesn't have a clue himself either!!!
Only saying, based on the fact that it took the best part of 3 months to try and arrange a 30 minute meeting and they could even get that over the line!
I fear the worst.... And I hate to say it but I genuinely thing that going into administration may be preferable to continuing with these lying clowns in charge, as someone has said on here before. It didn't exactly harm Palarse or Southampton did it?
Asset stripping can only happen in a transfer window. If he had met with PV earlier, my other point may have kicked in - prospective buyers would veto any attempts at asset stripping, hence keeping PV on the end of a piece of string. RD must know that PV, as a supporter, would hang on longer than, say, a Josh Harris. I fear the worst!
Also, on your other point, it is unlikely that player values would be fully appreciated in a sale price for the club.
I understand all the damage that the club would suffer from relegation but if it means the circus moves out of town then end goal achieved. It's RD's choice, do a 180* about turn, get the cheque book out to protect his investment thus far or save all the aggro and accept a reasonable offer for the club or worst case scenario asset strip and get out.
If it proves to be the latter course of action and there are still interested parties out there to take on the challenge we come again as we have done before. Here's hoping for the best, Happy new year everybody and keep up the good fight. 'Charlton till I die'.