Murphy was, sadly, psychologically flawed. Once his partnership with Smertin stopped paying dividends, we never recovered (in fact, THAT is the point where our relegation tumble started) and he became poison in the dressing-room. He had to go, and it's telling that he's done sod all for Spurs since then.
[quote][cite]Posted By: InspectorSands[/cite]Murphy was, sadly, psychologically flawed. Once his partnership with Smertin stopped paying dividends, we never recovered (in fact, THAT is the point where our relegation tumble started) and he became poison in the dressing-room. He had to go, and it's telling that he's done sod all for Spurs since then.[/quote]
Bang on, you can trace the decline to the 3-2 loss at home to Spurs when the wheels came off big style and eventually forced Curbs to go back to Prozac football to keep us up.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]For me, it has to be the decision to appoint Les Reed as the successor to Dowie. I personally have no doubt that that one decision was the one that really finished off our season and our stay in the Premiership. When he was appointed there was still plenty of time to turn our poor start around. Putting the right man in place at that time could have made all the difference. Instead we had the embarrassment of Reading & Spurs away (got to be our two worst ever performances in the Premiership) and Wycombe at home!! It is easy to be clever with hindsight, but why Les Reed?
I am not trying to have a go at the board but surely a bit more time & thought should have gone into Dowie's successor??
RM dealt with this at the forum. Who else was there, without making an illegal approach? - Sourness?, Graham?, O'Dreary? Our favoured alternatives to Dowie were all tied up by then.
In my opinion, the board thought that Pards was going to be sacked before we sacked Dowie. West Ham beat Arsenal and Pards was safe for a while. They decided to sack Dowie and had to get somebody in quick. Reed was always temporary unless he cut the mustard. The rest is history.
The big mistake for me was appointing Dowie. All that has followed stems from that decision. Who knows whether Dowie would have got results if he had stayed but there was clearly a total breach of trust between him and the board/RM? He would have gone sooner or later.
A mixture of emotions about this, the appointment of Dowie, then Reed have been proven as mistakes.
The game against Fulham, the fact that we got 2 points of out 6 against Watford have had an impact but the fact of the matter is we have not been good enough this season - I feel completely down at the moment, looking forward to having a complete break in the summer and getting back on the wagon in August.
Very true. Was let down by poor results all season, i.e. only a point from fulham games, point from sheff utd, and as you said only two against watford.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]I know Reed was a muppet but the fact is that there was NOBODY else available when we sacked Dowie.
Pards was still at West Ham at that stage and there was nobody else decent around.
The board basically appointed Pardew almost as soon as they could.
Harsh description of Les Reed IMHO Ormy.
The guy is an excellent COACH who, because of the appalling position we were in after 12 games of Dowie, was asked to be a MANAGER something he was not.
It didn't work out but at least the bloke had the guts and the balls to give it a go. I respect him for that and, although I fully felt and understood the frustrations that led to it, felt ashamed at his treatment during the Wycombe game. That for me has to be one of the lowest points in all the time I've supported Charlton.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite] I think we've got it right third time lucky and I think with Pards at the helm our prospects are as good as they can be.
Bang on Len,
But with regard to the first part of your post- I think you underestimate Curbishley's negotiation skills. I believe he wanted to go- yup the public stance is that he wanted to see out the last year but he knew Richard Murray wouldn't go for that-IMHO- he probably knew as, IMHO, RM did, that the time was right. The end of an era! QED.
Rebuilding is now the job- Pard's is the man with a great record of promotion from the 2nd tier- we have 16500 season tickets sold. Pard's will be backed in the summer- we will be expected to do well so that will be attractive to the players Pard's selects.
Despite feeling really down about the (almost inevitable) relegation- weirdly, i am really looking forward to next season.
Bring it on- and in answer to the OP, no point looking back-
Maybe the Board's decision to do the season ticket offer and attract 16500 to renew might be the best/ biggest decision this season. Who knows?
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]I think we've got it right third time lucky and I think with Pards at the helm our prospects are as good as they can be.
Bang on Len,
But with regard to the first part of your post- I think you underestimate Curbishley's negotiation skills. I believe he wanted to go- yup the public stance is that he wanted to see out the last year but he knew Richard Murray wouldn't go for that-IMHO- he probably knew as, IMHO, RM did, that the time was right. The end of an era! QED.
Rebuilding is now the job- Pard's is the man with a great record of promotion from the 2nd tier- we have 16500 season tickets sold. Pard's will be backed in the summer- we will be expected to do well so that will be attractive to the players Pard's selects.
Despite feeling really down about the (almost inevitable) relegation- weirdly, i am really looking forward to next season.
Bring it on- and in answer to the OP, no point looking back-
Maybe the Board's decision to do the season ticket offer and attract 16500 to renew might be the best/ biggest decision this season. Who knows?
You're probably right that Curbs wanted to go as much as Murray wanted him to go.
It doesn't alter the basic point though that we COULD have kept him a bit longer to get a more suitable replacement.
Problem is Len that everyone knew that Curbs was in the last year of a deal and that would have created massive uncertainty all season with a big cloud hanging over whether he was going to sign a new deal so Murray was right to clear the uncertainty. It would have been tough for Curbs to sign new players if they knew he was in his last year and that they would end up with a new manager who might not fancy them. As for Reed, well I agree that he was a decent coach but he proved to be an awful manager but, as we have already said there was nobody else around at the time. Like I said in another post, I think the board should have done what they did back in 1991 and appointed young blood with Charlton ties which would have been Mark Kinsella as head coach with Les Reed as his assistant. Mark my words, Kinsella will be Charlton manager within five years (maybe sooner) and will prove to be an absolute legend.
If you let someone just see out a contract without the prospect of extending it you end up with a lame duck manager. For example Tigana at Fulham, Keegan at Citeh and Tony Blair at UK Utd.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]Mark my words, Kinsella will be Charlton manager within five years (maybe sooner) and will prove to be an absolute legend.[/quote]
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
Harsh description of Les Reed IMHO Ormy.
The guy is an excellent COACH who, because of the appalling position we were in after 12 games of Dowie, was asked to be a MANAGER something he was not... I felt ashamed at his treatment during the Wycombe game. That for me has to be one of the lowest points in all the time I've supported Charlton.
I disagree. We needed the Wycombe fiasco to knock sense into the club. Les Reed wasn't bigger than Charlton. Yet he was driving us into the dirt.
[cite]Posted By: StanmoreAddick[/cite]But with regard to the first part of your post- I think you underestimate Curbishley's negotiation skills. I believe he wanted to go- yup the public stance is that he wanted to see out the last year but he knew Richard Murray wouldn't go for that-IMHO- he probably knew as, IMHO, RM did, that the time was right. The end of an era! QED.
Rebuilding is now the job- Pard's is the man with a great record of promotion from the 2nd tier- we have 16500 season tickets sold. Pard's will be backed in the summer- we will be expected to do well so that will be attractive to the players Pard's selects.
Despite feeling really down about the (almost inevitable) relegation- weirdly, i am really looking forward to next season.
Bring it on- and in answer to the OP, no point looking back-
Maybe the Board's decision to do the season ticket offer and attract 16500 to renew might be the best/ biggest decision this season. Who knows?
I pretty much agree with all of this Stanmore. It is the weirdest feeling going into tonights do or die game but my stress levels have dropped to normal. Part of that is the fact that survival is pretty much a long-shot now. The rest is because I actually think the club needs to go through the renewal process that will come from relegation. We will see wholesale changes in personel next season and Pards will get a chance to plan and implement his strategy with his team next year. I am excited by that prospect. If we manage to stay up, that'll be great but we still need a major clear out and the end of the season. I'd rather see some of the younger players blooded and fighting to get into the promised land rather than having it handed to them. In the long run we will be the better for it.
Comments
Bang on, you can trace the decline to the 3-2 loss at home to Spurs when the wheels came off big style and eventually forced Curbs to go back to Prozac football to keep us up.
RM dealt with this at the forum. Who else was there, without making an illegal approach? - Sourness?, Graham?, O'Dreary? Our favoured alternatives to Dowie were all tied up by then.
In my opinion, the board thought that Pards was going to be sacked before we sacked Dowie. West Ham beat Arsenal and Pards was safe for a while. They decided to sack Dowie and had to get somebody in quick. Reed was always temporary unless he cut the mustard. The rest is history.
The big mistake for me was appointing Dowie. All that has followed stems from that decision. Who knows whether Dowie would have got results if he had stayed but there was clearly a total breach of trust between him and the board/RM? He would have gone sooner or later.
The game against Fulham, the fact that we got 2 points of out 6 against Watford have had an impact but the fact of the matter is we have not been good enough this season - I feel completely down at the moment, looking forward to having a complete break in the summer and getting back on the wagon in August.
I think we've got it right third time lucky and I think with Pards at the helm our prospects are as good as they can be.
Harsh description of Les Reed IMHO Ormy.
The guy is an excellent COACH who, because of the appalling position we were in after 12 games of Dowie, was asked to be a MANAGER something he was not.
It didn't work out but at least the bloke had the guts and the balls to give it a go. I respect him for that and, although I fully felt and understood the frustrations that led to it, felt ashamed at his treatment during the Wycombe game. That for me has to be one of the lowest points in all the time I've supported Charlton.
Bang on Len,
But with regard to the first part of your post- I think you underestimate Curbishley's negotiation skills. I believe he wanted to go- yup the public stance is that he wanted to see out the last year but he knew Richard Murray wouldn't go for that-IMHO- he probably knew as, IMHO, RM did, that the time was right. The end of an era! QED.
Rebuilding is now the job- Pard's is the man with a great record of promotion from the 2nd tier- we have 16500 season tickets sold. Pard's will be backed in the summer- we will be expected to do well so that will be attractive to the players Pard's selects.
Despite feeling really down about the (almost inevitable) relegation- weirdly, i am really looking forward to next season.
Bring it on- and in answer to the OP, no point looking back-
Maybe the Board's decision to do the season ticket offer and attract 16500 to renew might be the best/ biggest decision this season. Who knows?
You're probably right that Curbs wanted to go as much as Murray wanted him to go.
It doesn't alter the basic point though that we COULD have kept him a bit longer to get a more suitable replacement.
As you say though- onwards and upwards!
It would have been tough for Curbs to sign new players if they knew he was in his last year and that they would end up with a new manager who might not fancy them.
As for Reed, well I agree that he was a decent coach but he proved to be an awful manager but, as we have already said there was nobody else around at the time.
Like I said in another post, I think the board should have done what they did back in 1991 and appointed young blood with Charlton ties which would have been Mark Kinsella as head coach with Les Reed as his assistant.
Mark my words, Kinsella will be Charlton manager within five years (maybe sooner) and will prove to be an absolute legend.
Christ, it was bad enough when all the speculation was going on about the England job, imagine how bad it would have got if he had stayed this year?
Plus, of course, if he had stayed with us and the Pards had been sacked by West Ham then would he have been able to resist them for a third time?
That would be something, wouldn't it
I disagree. We needed the Wycombe fiasco to knock sense into the club. Les Reed wasn't bigger than Charlton. Yet he was driving us into the dirt.
here's a reminder of the basket case we were before Christmas.
I pretty much agree with all of this Stanmore. It is the weirdest feeling going into tonights do or die game but my stress levels have dropped to normal. Part of that is the fact that survival is pretty much a long-shot now. The rest is because I actually think the club needs to go through the renewal process that will come from relegation. We will see wholesale changes in personel next season and Pards will get a chance to plan and implement his strategy with his team next year. I am excited by that prospect. If we manage to stay up, that'll be great but we still need a major clear out and the end of the season. I'd rather see some of the younger players blooded and fighting to get into the promised land rather than having it handed to them. In the long run we will be the better for it.