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Karel Freye - I'm losing patience

edited December 2015 in General Charlton
If have genuinely taken the approach of giving Freye a chance but his in game tactical naivity is pushing my patience. Firstly, I can accept him trying it, but Vas Te and Reza are strikers who play in front of defenders. You can play one, but it is daft to play two together. When this is clear during the game -it should be prior to the game IMO- Freye is too slow to react. JJ hasn't got the legs for a two man midfield - we dodged the bullet going 2 up yesterday, my immediate thoughts were we were fortunate and Reza or Vas Te off for a midfielder was the logical move against a poor side low on confidence given the great position we were undeservedly in. To be fair - that midfileder would have had to be Ba (which highlights the problem with the owner's policy) but it would have still been the right thing to do. On Saturday you could see the levels dropping, he waited for them to fall off a cliff before he acted. We were fortunate to get away with it.

I think you look at his starting eleven, you can make the case for his choices, but during the game he is completely hopless. When I know 99% I would have got a win out of yesterday, I get livid. Basically because I am a fan who thinks about the game not a manager and I shouldn't be seeing the basic errors I am.

If Lookman wasn't injured, I don't think Freye should be sacked on the spot, but given a big beating first. Lookman should be playing up front with Makienock, as limited player that he is, Mak requires defenders to work and pace and ability with a big lump gives them more of a challenge than the current set up. I will presume Lookman was injured until clarified, but my earlier points stand.

Comments

  • if he is staying till the end of the season or longer I really think they need to make that clear for the sake of the players and he needs to be able to add to the squad in January evan if that is just picking 3 from ABCXYZ as long as they are his pick.
  • We were one of the relegation favourites before the season even started. It's really hard to say whether it's Karel's fault or not. Would like a tough, seasoned championship central defender to boss our defence.
  • Fraeye may or may not be decent.

    However, like his predecessors he has little chance with a threadbare squad.

    When our options on the bench are Ba & Makienok you know we're well & truly f****d.

    I don't see how any manager could get us much higher up the league.

    If you budget for relegation, don't be surprised when you're relegated.

    Look at Ipswich - would you say they are better players throughout or is their manager getting the most from them?

    Since Riga we've not had that manager. I don't dislike Fraeye and I don't think he's the worst we've had under this regime but we need someone with good tactical nous and a track record of making silk purses out of sows' ears. We've always needed that. The best candidate available when Luzon went is now overseeing Blackburn's resurgence.
  • if he is staying till the end of the season or longer I really think they need to make that clear for the sake of the players and he needs to be able to add to the squad in January evan if that is just picking 3 from ABCXYZ as long as they are his pick.

    That's the thing though the 3 abc players he picks may be a huge misfit for the next man and their tactics.

    This is where one of the many flaws in this recruitment policy lies. Appoint new manager, ask what "type" of player they want rather than "which" actual players, offer them a selection of players sourced by scouts god knows how that no one else appears to want a ask them to sign one.

    Sign them on a long contract and hope the gamble pays off and hope that our excellent youth academy (in place for years before them) plugs the gap.

    Then sack the manager when they're not good enough and/ or said squad's inadequate and bring in the next gamble lying to the fans that they're the best for the job out there, they're interim and an improvement on all the previous appointments


    New man expected to make do with said squad with perhaps a couple of additions in the same mould as above in front of smaller crowds each time ad infitum.

    Absolute shambles and they are clueless this board when it comes to football or just too arrogant to change.

  • vffvff
    edited December 2015
    Pedro45 said:

    The problem IMO is that we are not playing "joined up" football. The defence is separate from the midfield, which is separate from the forwards. Playing four attackers is fine, but only if you also play with two holding midfielders; the problem here is that we don't have two holding midfielders! Jackson can play in a three, but not a two. So, to be positive, if we continue with four up front, we have to have our only decent holding player in midfield, and that is Diarra. Pushing him forward means (currently) playing Lennon or Sarr with Bauer (back on Saturday), giving a three man central defensive shield. That in turn allows the full backs a bit more freedom, which should suit Solly and THD. With Cousins putting in the effort in midfield, and our four forwards running about a lot, at least we have the semblance of a side there. Once we go two goals up (as we seem to have the capability of doing!), then we can bring on Jackson for one of the forwards, switch to a much more orthodox 4-4-2 and shut up shop in order to get the win. Simples. You have to ask why Karel doesn't think like this too?

    Some decent tactical observations from Pedro45 and Stig.

    Maybe Fraeye doesn't think this way as he is an inexperienced and not particularly good coach or tactician ? Dowie I remember being completely hopeless in game strategy. It is not an easy skill to learn. The Championship is not the place to try and develop that, if you ain't got it. Fraeye does not have it. With the players and squad set up, Charlton would need a really good and astute manager (and a decent off field set up). Being that Charlton have neither, the Fraeye appointment is doomed to failure. Being angry at the players publicly is not going to help him either. Its just a question of when he goes. If only the same could be said of Duchatelet and Meire.
  • I've lost my patience, if he is not gone by the time 2016 comes around then I will be, had enough of this.
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  • rikofold said:

    Fraeye may or may not be decent.

    However, like his predecessors he has little chance with a threadbare squad.

    When our options on the bench are Ba & Makienok you know we're well & truly f****d.

    I don't see how any manager could get us much higher up the league.

    If you budget for relegation, don't be surprised when you're relegated.

    Look at Ipswich - would you say they are better players throughout or is their manager getting the most from them?

    Since Riga we've not had that manager. I don't dislike Fraeye and I don't think he's the worst we've had under this regime but we need someone with good tactical nous and a track record of making silk purses out of sows' ears. We've always needed that. The best candidate available when Luzon went is now overseeing Blackburn's resurgence.
    Yes Ipswich players are better than ours. Daryl Murphy anyone ?

    Yes Mick McCarthy & Paul Lambert are better than Fraeye.

    But like I say if you budget for relegation, don't be surprised when you're relegated.
  • rikofold said:

    Fraeye may or may not be decent.

    However, like his predecessors he has little chance with a threadbare squad.

    When our options on the bench are Ba & Makienok you know we're well & truly f****d.

    I don't see how any manager could get us much higher up the league.

    If you budget for relegation, don't be surprised when you're relegated.

    Look at Ipswich - would you say they are better players throughout or is their manager getting the most from them?

    Since Riga we've not had that manager. I don't dislike Fraeye and I don't think he's the worst we've had under this regime but we need someone with good tactical nous and a track record of making silk purses out of sows' ears. We've always needed that. The best candidate available when Luzon went is now overseeing Blackburn's resurgence.
    Yes Ipswich players are better than ours. Daryl Murphy anyone ?

    Yes Mick McCarthy & Paul Lambert are better than Fraeye.

    But like I say if you budget for relegation, don't be surprised when you're relegated.
    Agree, you may get away with it for a season or two but eventually it catches up with you and you end up with the current situation.

    The fact is we have gone backwards under RD and KM cant spin it any other way.
  • Tactically naive is a cliche. He's tactically awful.

    It's clear he cannot set up a team or organise a defence. All concerns when he joined have now been shown as true and proven. If he actually cared about the club he'd piss off on his accord.
  • Anyone who by now is losing patience is a saint.
  • edited December 2015
    I dont know what Roland expects, the guy was not even successful in the Belgium park league let along the championship.

    KF appointment by RD and his arrogance to continue with him is the perfect example of why fans can see that we will never move forward with RD and it is very real threat of doing damage long term beyond repair.
  • RedPanda said:

    Tactically naive is a cliche. He's tactically awful.

    It's clear he cannot set up a team or organise a defence. All concerns when he joined have now been shown as true and proven. If he actually cared about the club he'd piss off on his accord.

    If only, everything permeates down from the eccentric megalomaniac at the top and unless he sees the light and appoints a CEO pdq who knows their stuff we shall remain floundering around in the darkness ad infinitum. Don't hold your breath on this one!
  • He'll get the boot as coach eventually but I doubt that will be the end of Karel-he'll stay a network man and probably retain an influence at the club as he did previously.

    Also, all this anger stuff he came out with in his post match interview was just pathetic and will only serve to alienate players. He knew that there were problems at half time so he had plenty of time to change things but, if anything, we were worse in the second half. If he was that angry, you would assume he vented his spleen at the interval? His message obviously isn't getting through....
  • RedChaser said:

    RedPanda said:

    Tactically naive is a cliche. He's tactically awful.

    It's clear he cannot set up a team or organise a defence. All concerns when he joined have now been shown as true and proven. If he actually cared about the club he'd piss off on his accord.

    If only, everything permeates down from the eccentric megalomaniac at the top and unless he sees the light and appoints a CEO pdq who knows their stuff we shall remain floundering around in the darkness ad infinitum. Don't hold your breath on this one!
    Indeed, he obviously wouldn't resign. Why would you return to the Belgian pub league when you can live the dream in England for a while longer? Especially when your superiors will never see any wrong in you.

    This whole 'interim' thing is exactly the same lie as 'we had 20 interviews before hiring Luzon'. They are treating us all like mugs and taking our loyalty for granted.
  • JiMMy 85 said:

    Think I've sold this mystery. Karel is actually the IT support desk manager.




    So the happy, smiley Karel didn't last long. Now he knows how I feel.
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  • Fraeye may or may not be decent.

    However, like his predecessors he has little chance with a threadbare squad.

    When our options on the bench are Ba & Makienok you know we're well & truly f****d.

    I don't see how any manager could get us much higher up the league.

    If you budget for relegation, don't be surprised when you're relegated.

    I think you're spot on. I'm not a fan of Fraeye but given the size and ability of the squad available, I really cannot see any manager doing much better. It's like they cobble together a squad every game like some kind of pub team manager.
  • There was always a chance that Fraeye would work out to be a good manager but given his credentials it was about the same probability as if you'd wandered over to Hackney Marshes on a Sunday morning and awarded the job to the first manager to shout 'it's still nil nil' after his team had scored on the basis that he was a top sports psychologist.
  • edited December 2015

    Fraeye may or may not be decent.

    However, like his predecessors he has little chance with a threadbare squad.

    When our options on the bench are Ba & Makienok you know we're well & truly f****d.

    I don't see how any manager could get us much higher up the league.

    If you budget for relegation, don't be surprised when you're relegated.

    He started with the 11 that most of us would have started with and we got behind their defense, with all 3 forwards playing a part for the first goal.
    but just like Cardiff who have given a 2 goal lead away on 3 occasions,
    The lack of a playmaker in midfield is really showing, because That team is nearly impossible to manage over 90 minutes.
    Dale Stevens, would've a field day with Reza and Lookman doing runs so he had someone to pass to.
    If KF has any balls he will demand money to be spent on a midfield or we will be
    Proving the bookies right.

    The catch 22 is if KF stood up to Duchatelet he won't get the job,
    but if he doesn't he will fail anyway.

    The crying shame is, their is talent in this team, and not just Lookman,
    But we have to do so much chasing, no wonder we don't last 90 minutes.

    Decent Playmaker or we struggle all season.
    It wouldn't matter who was the head coach,



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