Broke the news to my 9 year old tonight , said bad news guess who's left Charlton today , he guessed Tony Watt straight away and i said i think he may be trouble he's had problems before at other clubs and left them after not very long and Standard Liege was his last club he immediately said 'why did the owner get him for us when he knows he is trouble'
a fucking 9 year old can see we have a wanky recruitment strategy
Broke the news to my 9 year old tonight , said bad news guess who's left Charlton today , he guessed Tony Watt straight away and i said i think he may be trouble he's had problems before at other clubs and left them after not very long and Standard Liege was his last club he immediately said 'why did the owner get him for us when he knows he is trouble'
a fucking 9 year old can see we have a wanky recruitment strategy
Good grief, my 9 year old was revising for her algebra test tomorrow
Not only did they not keep Riga but they didn't think his assistant was good enough.
Well not until a few weeks ago they didnt.
Just bizarre decision making.
I agree whole heartedly with that as a bizarre decision and not a good Rd moment, but playing staff wise there's been very little evidence that the stat analysis route isn't working for us, and that is very surprising to me,
It makes it even more baffling that since the the thuram, nego, Polish Pete signings and then lepoint most signings are made with the right sort of thought process. The young lad from Everton was a gamble worth looking at, the Tottenham youngster and coqeulin both paid off so maybe they thought the Everton lad would do the same,
This is a very surprising situation and if like I said when kf took over that he has learnt from Riga and brings similar qualities you have to hope he will be proven to be a good decision,
And it's not surprising that we are now seeing a happier camp and a more workman like team and influential players being played in the correct position and being meticulous In his prep all traits I associated with Riga
Maybe the board are listening maybe they are changing back to a way that all supported very delicately in a un obvious manner,
Riga was undoubtedly someone who we all admired someone we all supported and wanted to continue in the role of Mgr,
Not only did they not keep Riga but they didn't think his assistant was good enough.
Well not until a few weeks ago they didnt.
Just bizarre decision making.
I agree whole heartedly with that as a bizarre decision and not a good Rd moment, but playing staff wise there's been very little evidence that the stat analysis route isn't working for us, and that is very surprising to me,
It makes it even more baffling that since the the thuram, nego, Polish Pete signings and then lepoint most signings are made with the right sort of thought process. The young lad from Everton was a gamble worth looking at, the Tottenham youngster and coqeulin both paid off so maybe they thought the Everton lad would do the same,
This is a very surprising situation and if like I said when kf took over that he has learnt from Riga and brings similar qualities you have to hope he will be proven to be a good decision,
And it's not surprising that we are now seeing a happier camp and a more workman like team and influential players being played in the correct position and being meticulous In his prep all traits I associated with Riga
Maybe the board are listening maybe they are changing back to a way that all supported very delicately in a un obvious manner,
Riga was undoubtedly someone who we all admired someone we all supported and wanted to continue in the role of Mgr,
It's all very interesting
It's anything other than interesting.
Crowds are dwindling, players are constantly changing, mangers are lucky to get more than 30 games, and we are going absolutely no where
That doesnt matter though if they were scouted using the data analysis, I wish I had been mysrlf this season and more last to judge but I havent but on paper the squad looks more balanced and competitive to the one that started last season
If you have not been to a Charlton match this season, then you are probably not best placed to make a judgement on how this season's squad compares to previous seasons'.
That doesnt matter though if they were scouted using the data analysis, I wish I had been mysrlf this season and more last to judge but I havent but on paper the squad looks more balanced and competitive to the one that started last season
Yet we are no better off. The reason for that is a mixture of the following.
1. Not retaining the right players. 2. Not buying the right players. 3. A string of inexperienced managers.
So yeah, you could say our recruitment strategy is completely up the wall, which is what many of us have been complaining about since RD took over.
Who did we not retain
JBG was the one named all wanted back and he stayed
Inexperienced managers, I disagree Luzon and Riga were experienced, Bob peeters and KF yes I agree, Powell had no experience really as a manager nor did curbs and gritt so it can work out for you, I am very surprised that the players being sourced the way they are have been as useful as they have tbh, we have stayed up quite easily once Riga was I'm place and Luzon done well I thought last season and started well this, peeters I didn't think was right but like watt on e it was too much baggage he was moved off sharpish,
I don't think anyone can quite put their finger on real evidence that holds up to scrutiny as to what's so rotten and what is the solution to it, to me there are many things we can all point at but since the players being forced on to Powell I don't think there's evidence to say they didn't change their view
That doesnt matter though if they were scouted using the data analysis, I wish I had been mysrlf this season and more last to judge but I havent but on paper the squad looks more balanced and competitive to the one that started last season
If you have not been to a Charlton match this season, then you are probably not best placed to make a judgement on how this season's squad compares to previous seasons'.
Which is why I am asking those who have been as I am unable to make a judgement, I have tried to gauge where people think its gone wrong with player recruitment as I can't see any stand out fuck ups since the nego thuram etc signings
That doesnt matter though if they were scouted using the data analysis, I wish I had been mysrlf this season and more last to judge but I havent but on paper the squad looks more balanced and competitive to the one that started last season
Yet we are no better off. The reason for that is a mixture of the following.
1. Not retaining the right players. 2. Not buying the right players. 3. A string of inexperienced managers.
So yeah, you could say our recruitment strategy is completely up the wall, which is what many of us have been complaining about since RD took over.
Who did we not retain
JBG was the one named all wanted back and he stayed
Inexperienced managers, I disagree Luzon and Riga were experienced, Bob peeters and KF yes I agree, Powell had no experience really as a manager nor did curbs and gritt so it can work out for you, I am very surprised that the players being sourced the way they are have been as useful as they have tbh, we have stayed up quite easily once Riga was I'm place and Luzon done well I thought last season and started well this, peeters I didn't think was right but like watt on e it was too much baggage he was moved off sharpish,
I don't think anyone can quite put their finger on real evidence that holds up to scrutiny as to what's so rotten and what is the solution to it, to me there are many things we can all point at but since the players being forced on to Powell I don't think there's evidence to say they didn't change their view
Ben Haim, Johnson, Dimitrovic and Eagles would all have improved the squad we have at present (you can also add Buyens, Bulot and Gomez to that but there was very little the club could do to prevent them leaving). And by squad that is what one of our major issues is with RD, it has never been big enough. To compete in this league you need 25 and those players would have made a big difference just like Johnson and Eagles did last season when it was falling apart.
Broke the news to my 9 year old tonight , said bad news guess who's left Charlton today , he guessed Tony Watt straight away and i said i think he may be trouble he's had problems before at other clubs and left them after not very long and Standard Liege was his last club he immediately said 'why did the owner get him for us when he knows he is trouble'
a fucking 9 year old can see we have a wanky recruitment strategy
That doesnt matter though if they were scouted using the data analysis, I wish I had been mysrlf this season and more last to judge but I havent but on paper the squad looks more balanced and competitive to the one that started last season
If you have not been to a Charlton match this season, then you are probably not best placed to make a judgement on how this season's squad compares to previous seasons'.
Which is why I am asking those who have been as I am unable to make a judgement
And it's not surprising that we are now seeing a happier camp and a more workman like team and influential players being played in the correct position and being meticulous In his prep
If we kept tbh or Johnson I doubt we would have ever signed Bauer, dimitrovic is a strange one granted that I thought he could become a good goalie, eagles divided all opinions on here let alone at the ground, bulot and buyens, gomez we had little chance to keep hold of and I would suggest we did try, I think they are learning and they are trying to get it right, but on a very tight budget and by trying to keep to a plan based on finances, Its very hard to criticize that idea, however as fans we want more and want it quick, but player recruitment as surprising to me as it is seems to have leveled off since their first year
As anyone who coaches anything will tell you (particularly sport), no matter what the level, it's horrendously difficult working with someone who has a bad attitude, doesn't want to learn, thinks thst they know best etc. IF, this is the case with Tony, then I don't know what else the club can do. I imagine the manager says he isn't prepared to play him (or any other hypothetical 'bad egg') because he can't lose the respect of everyone else, the owner doesn't want to keep paying him or for his stock to rot in the reserve with the player so time to cut losses and move on.
Good quoting but go back further where I ask for the squad comparisons since RD took over and no one can highlight where we are weaker, so based on that I have come to an opinion that we are not weaker, and that by recruiting kf maybe they are showing the learnings and have taken someone who like Riga will use the tools we all supported,
Very strange that you choose to disect my posts instead of providing an alternative to what I have said, are you ok or bored and looking for a little spat, unfortunately I no longer do that so you may wish to look elsewhere if you can not offer anything other than that
That doesnt matter though if they were scouted using the data analysis, I wish I had been mysrlf this season and more last to judge but I havent but on paper the squad looks more balanced and competitive to the one that started last season
If you have not been to a Charlton match this season, then you are probably not best placed to make a judgement on how this season's squad compares to previous seasons'.
Which is why I am asking those who have been as I am unable to make a judgement, I have tried to gauge where people think its gone wrong with player recruitment as I can't see any stand out fuck ups since the nego thuram etc signings
Tucudean. Lepoint. Bergdich, probably. Ceballos, maybe. Too soon to call some others. Personally I don't rate Moussa, but he's not had enough games through injury..
Good quoting but go back further where I ask for the squad comparisons since RD took over and no one can highlight where we are weaker, so based on that I have come to an opinion that we are not weaker, and that by recruiting kf maybe they are showing the learnings and have taken someone who like Riga will use the tools we all supported,
Yeah I can go back to find you rejecting someone who said the team Powell put together was stronger.
You have multiple posts on this thread, telling everyone what you think of the quality of a squad you've never seen. Maybe take a back seat until you do actually see them.
And we got shot pretty quickly of all of those ab, that's the intriguing thing with this for me are we using stat analysis to recruit but also to ship out and if so is it working both ways, it's a very new concept in football and one we seem to be embroiled in, if anything it highlights we are an experiment and that does have grounds for concern, Yet is that based on just fear of change rather than facts, the turnover of players is very much an issue, bit we seem to be doing it without getting burnt to badly financially. It's a very interesting subject
Good quoting but go back further where I ask for the squad comparisons since RD took over and no one can highlight where we are weaker, so based on that I have come to an opinion that we are not weaker, and that by recruiting kf maybe they are showing the learnings and have taken someone who like Riga will use the tools we all supported,
Yeah I can go back to find you rejecting someone who said the team Powell put together was stronger.
You have multiple posts on this thread, telling everyone what you think of the quality of a squad you've never seen. Maybe take a back seat until you do actually see them.
I never rejected toms claim at all in fact it threw up the points that since that first season of dismantling the squad have Rd and Co learnt from it, the only thing I said about that squad was we were in the third division
I don't need to see them to have an opinion you just wish to have an Internet argument so you carry on I am sure you will find someone to oblige
And we got shot pretty quickly of all of those ab, that's the intriguing thing with this for me are we using stat analysis to recruit but also to ship out and if so is it working both ways, it's a very new concept in football and one we seem to be embroiled in, if anything it highlights we are an experiment and that does have grounds for concern, Yet is that based on just fear of change rather than facts, the turnover of players is very much an issue, bit we seem to be doing it without getting burnt to badly financially. It's a very interesting subject
I don't really think it's that interesting tbh.
Just a fella trying to run a club on the cheap in the hope he signs a couple of rough gems.
He might get lucky. He might not. If its the latter we all suffer.
Good quoting but go back further where I ask for the squad comparisons since RD took over and no one can highlight where we are weaker, so based on that I have come to an opinion that we are not weaker, and that by recruiting kf maybe they are showing the learnings and have taken someone who like Riga will use the tools we all supported,
Yeah I can go back to find you rejecting someone who said the team Powell put together was stronger.
You have multiple posts on this thread, telling everyone what you think of the quality of a squad you've never seen. Maybe take a back seat until you do actually see them.
I never rejected toms claim at all in fact it threw up the points that since that first season of dismantling the squad have Rd and Co learnt from it, the only thing I said about that squad was we were in the third division
I don't need to see them to have an opinion you just wish to have an Internet argument so you carry on I am sure you will find someone to oblige
We were in the Championship with that squad. Finished 9th.
You don't need to see them to have an opinion on whether they're good or not? OK then. I'll leave you to it.
More will attend the protests now... which is good... and once again we get an insight and clear illustration of the model in play...
Hopefully people will recognise there is simply no value in engaging with the Puppet that is KM and the sooner we let all interaction disappear, bad negative protests, the better...
It is now clear in black and white what their approach is, we can then decide to swallow it, protest it or simply walk away...
That doesnt matter though if they were scouted using the data analysis, I wish I had been mysrlf this season and more last to judge but I havent but on paper the squad looks more balanced and competitive to the one that started last season
If you have not been to a Charlton match this season, then you are probably not best placed to make a judgement on how this season's squad compares to previous seasons'.
Which is why I am asking those who have been as I am unable to make a judgement, I have tried to gauge where people think its gone wrong with player recruitment as I can't see any stand out fuck ups since the nego thuram etc signings
Tucudean. Lepoint. Bergdich, probably. Ceballos, maybe. Too soon to call some others. Personally I don't rate Moussa, but he's not had enough games through injury..
Is there also an argument that the new signings from abroad don't get enough time to adapt, because there are so many of them joining an unsettled team.
Tucudean wasn't brilliant for us, but he was out after FIVE months. Plenty of British players we've signed down the years were poor when they started, but because they joined a settled team there was less pressure on them. Dale Stephens for example was pretty average in his first 2 seasons with rumours of homesickness before coming good and getting a move North to Brighton! Going further back, Johnnie Robinson was unexceptional for several years before his breakthrough in 1995/96.
I heard that the fee for Watt is around £950k -£1m mark if perm deal is done. Same person told me who called the Jason Euell moving up to first team coaching.
Don't shoot the messenger, just passing on what been told.
That's what I am thinking is there someone who is using the stat analysis to predict if players will come good and what parameters are being used to reach the conclusions, the turn over of players is very high and is this s result of us using the analysis on our own players and if they are ones the system has chosen what's used to reduce the failing players of the system going forward
That's what I am thinking is there someone who is using the stat analysis to predict if players will come good and what parameters are being used to reach the conclusions, the turn over of players is very high and is this s result of us using the analysis on our own players and if they are ones the system has chosen what's used to reduce the failing players of the system going forward
We are turning players over very quickly, there is very little settling process, so if we using this stat analysis to recruit then are we using it to ship out players that fall outside the parameters of the system,
But if the players who moves quickly out of cafc like lepoint for example, were highlighted as a potential player and then subsequently signed due to the stat analysis programme, what information is inputted back in so you reduce those failures,
I know what NLA is driving at I think...if we are using a version of the moneyball/ statistics lead recruitment then what data is being used to source and appraise players.
Trouble is with moneyball it was developed for silly boys rounders which is very much down to individual performance as opposed to football whereby you're constrained to team tactics and systems and numerous other variables. Also would be interested to know if scouts are relying heavily on statistics based recruiting how many games players's stats are assessed over before being signed as looking at gary mannilows post on previous page most signings played less than 20 games the prior season which wouldn't give a real idea of consistency if basing a judgement on statistics particularly if looking at bringing them in for a 46 game season.
Thats exactly it, I am trying to understand how the whole thing works and is it something we own or is it something we have signed up to and is being used by other clubs, not Rd clubs but others and if so who and how is it working for them, its a very alien concept to me and the English way of football but that doesnt mean it wont work, which is what makes it so interesting
The data recruitment is to try outdo the system, not overpay because of hype but infact underpay due to potential. Now where it fails is it can't factor in everything.. It's insanely risky, it can't take into factor attitude, training mentality, adaptation to the English game, amongst many other things; things that real recruiters and managers overseeing this would look at.
I've said it from the start and will keep at it, it's insanely flawed. Also it's not recruiting for a set goal, it's just recruiting to farm profits if the player hits their potential. How can a coach build a team to hit goals, i.e. promotion, if the style of football they want to mould their tactics in the season on aren't matched by the players they are recruiting. If we want a player to boost us up the table, you don't want a young inexperienced French youth International who will take plenty of time to adapt.
Anyway, if anything it's quite funny that Roland wants to try break even or make a profit but his main money maker is so insanely poor. His only real chance is the academy producing gems, as he's chucking so much sh*t at the wall in transfers and not many are sticking.
Comments
he immediately said 'why did the owner get him for us when he knows he is trouble'
a fucking 9 year old can see we have a wanky recruitment strategy
It makes it even more baffling that since the the thuram, nego, Polish Pete signings and then lepoint most signings are made with the right sort of thought process. The young lad from Everton was a gamble worth looking at, the Tottenham youngster and coqeulin both paid off so maybe they thought the Everton lad would do the same,
This is a very surprising situation and if like I said when kf took over that he has learnt from Riga and brings similar qualities you have to hope he will be proven to be a good decision,
And it's not surprising that we are now seeing a happier camp and a more workman like team and influential players being played in the correct position and being meticulous In his prep all traits I associated with Riga
Maybe the board are listening maybe they are changing back to a way that all supported very delicately in a un obvious manner,
Riga was undoubtedly someone who we all admired someone we all supported and wanted to continue in the role of Mgr,
It's all very interesting
Crowds are dwindling, players are constantly changing, mangers are lucky to get more than 30 games, and we are going absolutely no where
JBG was the one named all wanted back and he stayed
Inexperienced managers, I disagree Luzon and Riga were experienced, Bob peeters and KF yes I agree, Powell had no experience really as a manager nor did curbs and gritt so it can work out for you, I am very surprised that the players being sourced the way they are have been as useful as they have tbh, we have stayed up quite easily once Riga was I'm place and Luzon done well I thought last season and started well this, peeters I didn't think was right but like watt on e it was too much baggage he was moved off sharpish,
I don't think anyone can quite put their finger on real evidence that holds up to scrutiny as to what's so rotten and what is the solution to it, to me there are many things we can all point at but since the players being forced on to Powell I don't think there's evidence to say they didn't change their view
The stat analysis route is a very interesting topic. And one that we need to understand before judging on its failures only
Very strange that you choose to disect my posts instead of providing an alternative to what I have said, are you ok or bored and looking for a little spat, unfortunately I no longer do that so you may wish to look elsewhere if you can not offer anything other than that
You have multiple posts on this thread, telling everyone what you think of the quality of a squad you've never seen. Maybe take a back seat until you do actually see them.
I don't need to see them to have an opinion you just wish to have an Internet argument so you carry on I am sure you will find someone to oblige
Just a fella trying to run a club on the cheap in the hope he signs a couple of rough gems.
He might get lucky. He might not. If its the latter we all suffer.
You don't need to see them to have an opinion on whether they're good or not? OK then. I'll leave you to it.
Hopefully people will recognise there is simply no value in engaging with the Puppet that is KM and the sooner we let all interaction disappear, bad negative protests, the better...
It is now clear in black and white what their approach is, we can then decide to swallow it, protest it or simply walk away...
Tucudean wasn't brilliant for us, but he was out after FIVE months. Plenty of British players we've signed down the years were poor when they started, but because they joined a settled team there was less pressure on them. Dale Stephens for example was pretty average in his first 2 seasons with rumours of homesickness before coming good and getting a move North to Brighton!
Going further back, Johnnie Robinson was unexceptional for several years before his breakthrough in 1995/96.
Don't shoot the messenger, just passing on what been told.
But if the players who moves quickly out of cafc like lepoint for example, were highlighted as a potential player and then subsequently signed due to the stat analysis programme, what information is inputted back in so you reduce those failures,
Trouble is with moneyball it was developed for silly boys rounders which is very much down to individual performance as opposed to football whereby you're constrained to team tactics and systems and numerous other variables. Also would be interested to know if scouts are relying heavily on statistics based recruiting how many games players's stats are assessed over before being signed as looking at gary mannilows post on previous page most signings played less than 20 games the prior season which wouldn't give a real idea of consistency if basing a judgement on statistics particularly if looking at bringing them in for a 46 game season.
I've said it from the start and will keep at it, it's insanely flawed. Also it's not recruiting for a set goal, it's just recruiting to farm profits if the player hits their potential. How can a coach build a team to hit goals, i.e. promotion, if the style of football they want to mould their tactics in the season on aren't matched by the players they are recruiting. If we want a player to boost us up the table, you don't want a young inexperienced French youth International who will take plenty of time to adapt.
Anyway, if anything it's quite funny that Roland wants to try break even or make a profit but his main money maker is so insanely poor. His only real chance is the academy producing gems, as he's chucking so much sh*t at the wall in transfers and not many are sticking.