Vaguely recall hearing or reading something over the weekend. I think it's a pretty open secret. A shame if true, they're a good club. Only surprise is that's it's taken this long. Huge debts there.
Got to happen sooner or later with their debts... One knackered football club. Feel for them and their fans... Won't be the last to go that way from the daft division that is the Championship. Think I am right in saying they voted against FFP didn't they?
Got to happen sooner or later with their debts... One knackered football club. Feel for them and their fans... Won't be the last to go that way from the daft division that is the Championship. Think I am right in saying they voted against FFP didn't they?
They might just as well though as their interest payments are probably several times their turnover so they were going to be in real trouble in any event.
In the end they must go into Administration, surely.
Also their Chariman is quoted as being worth £60m so if the debts are £140m he couldn't ever clear them himself and administration and a couple of seasons in the third division and they could replicate what Southampton have done and the Saints are now heralded as the best run club ever!
Got to happen sooner or later with their debts... One knackered football club. Feel for them and their fans... Won't be the last to go that way from the daft division that is the Championship. Think I am right in saying they voted against FFP didn't they?
They might just as well though as their interest payments are probably several times their turnover so they were going to be in real trouble in any event.
In the end they must go into Administration, surely.
Also their Chariman is quoted as being worth £60m so if the debts are £140m he couldn't ever clear them himself and administration and a couple of seasons in the third division and they could replicate what Southampton have done and the Saints are now heralded as the best run club ever!
No surprise there wages are ridiculous ... Thank god we are being run financially the right way
Thanks Roland.
Their issue was their Premiership wages, same as it was ours. They were longer in the top flight and had to unpick a Premiership structure across the club.
It is perhaps a caution against relying on 'friendly' debt - which, incidentally, is what our Staprix debt is at the moment.
Got to happen sooner or later with their debts... One knackered football club. Feel for them and their fans... Won't be the last to go that way from the daft division that is the Championship. Think I am right in saying they voted against FFP didn't they?
They might just as well though as their interest payments are probably several times their turnover so they were going to be in real trouble in any event.
In the end they must go into Administration, surely.
Also their Chariman is quoted as being worth £60m so if the debts are £140m he couldn't ever clear them himself and administration and a couple of seasons in the third division and they could replicate what Southampton have done and the Saints are now heralded as the best run club ever!
But given all their debt is to their Chairman and he will know he is never getting it back it would be better to set the interest at 0% and then meet FFP guidelines than keep interest at a rate above which you will never see anyway but remove FFP and any chance you have at running the club on a sound footing meaning you have to keep pumping another £10M in every year, year after year, into perpetuity.
No chance will they, or any other club replicate Southampton without a billionaire Chairman nowadays.
I'm sure they enjoyed their European adventures. I think they were relegated with debt around £100m. From my memory, they had a couple of very good years, then decided that was their 'level' so spent big to try to get back up there.
Phil Gartside's insistence that relegation from the Premier League be stopped while they were hovering around 15th was a giveaway.
Shame but I'll take that 9 point deduction on a relegation rival
Ten.
Would have thought it would make more sense to just write off the debt (if he can) rather than put them in to admin but who knows what the mess really looks like.
Surely its better to go into Administration now and get the Deduction sooner rather than later... Means that the players and club know what they need to do to catch up (and can treat every game like a Cup Final) rather than looking over their shoulder and worrying that every point might not have been worth the effort.
Didnt do Southampton any harm that first season in League One
I get that the owner is the main creditor but if the numbers I've read armed true there is an issue there. If the club owe him £140m and his net worth is £60m, which I assume to include the £140m he is due from the club, he is £80m short.
Even if the numbers are not totally accurate he has, potentially, an £80m black hole in his finances. He can't convert it all to equity as he doesn't have it. That suggests that he has borrowed it elsewhere or guarantees the debts. Either way the person that, actually, owns that £80m will want interest on it.
Also his net worth will have been calculated based on his total asset base, including his house and his businesses. Remember how Simin Jordan and them at chap Mark someone did just the same with Palace?
Either way if Bolton's cash flow is restricted and they can't 'borrow' any more from Eddie Davies and he accepts that he will never get his money out administration might be the only answer. I can't, ever, see a club the size of Bolton paying that kind of money back, ever. Eventually it needs to be written off and if they owe just a couple of million elsewhere administration will save them that. No double they owe HMRC a few million. 1p in the £?
Surely its better to go into Administration now and get the Deduction sooner rather than later... Means that the players and club know what they need to do to catch up (and can treat every game like a Cup Final) rather than looking over their shoulder and worrying that every point might not have been worth the effort.
Didnt do Southampton any harm that first season in League One
Surely its better to go into Administration now and get the Deduction sooner rather than later... Means that the players and club know what they need to do to catch up (and can treat every game like a Cup Final) rather than looking over their shoulder and worrying that every point might not have been worth the effort.
Didnt do Southampton any harm that first season in League One
Yes it did, they finished 7th
Exactly, they knew what they had to do to survive and quickly got themselves out of trouble
At least had a target to aim for and they were able to build on that... They could have ended up in the Play-Offs only to drop out due to the Administration deduction which could have made the Managers job harder next season as the players would have needed picking up after the disappointed
My understanding is that the owner was worth a couple of hundred million, the figure of about £60 million was arrived at after the money spent on Bolton was deducted.
I suspect some monies are owed to other parties hence the possible attraction of administration.
My understanding is that the owner was worth a couple of hundred million, the figure of about £60 million was arrived at after the money spent on Bolton was deducted.
I suspect some monies are owed to other parties hence the possible attraction of administration.
Thanks. That does make much more sense than what I was under the impression it was. I suppose he could just write it all off but it will soon start to grow again. I know £60m is a lot of money but I don't think it's unreasonable for him to walk away now. He has done more than enough for them. If they do go into administration the fans can't blame him.
The truth is that a Premier League adventure is expensive, especially for a club the size of Charlton or Bolton.
In most cases players - some of whom will now be football creditors and therefore have their debts honoured by any new franchise - while the non football creditors, including local suppliers, get nothing at all. The football creditors should be the first to lose out given that they are in large part the cause of the problem.
The debt probably will grow again and it would not be unreasonable for him to walk away, and this may be in his interests as well as the club's. Or he could hang on, look for investors that offer him the best long term return, whether that would be in the club's best interests is another matter.
he debt is so large that it can probably never be repaid .. the question is if course, who allowed a smallish club in a smallish town to get into such a ridiculous financial mess ..
The debt probably will grow again and it would not be unreasonable for him to walk away, and this may be in his interests as well as the club's. Or he could hang on, look for investors that offer him the best long term return, whether that would be in the club's best interests is another matter.
Wouldn't administration be the best route to take for this though? Then the new owner could start with no debts? Even if he writes off all the money not everyone else is likely to do so. As much as I have the idea of knocking creditors, including the HMRC, if the rule exists we have to expect businesses to take advantage of it.
The points deduction might not make any drfference to their season and if not it could save them a lot of money. Them being the new owners.
If he was able to put the club into administration, come out of the process as owner and then sell, the price may be greater than what he would otherwise achieve.
The point about hanging on was in reference to what has happened elsewhere.
This is why the idea of running a club within the FFP rules is, in principle, a fantastic idea. In reality though it's not been quite so good - but that may be down to the money being spent by people without a flipping clue and the intellectual assets of employees being chucked in the metaphorical skip when they were let go.....
Comments
In the end they must go into Administration, surely.
Also their Chariman is quoted as being worth £60m so if the debts are £140m he couldn't ever clear them himself and administration and a couple of seasons in the third division and they could replicate what Southampton have done and the Saints are now heralded as the best run club ever!
Their issue was their Premiership wages, same as it was ours. They were longer in the top flight and had to unpick a Premiership structure across the club.
It is perhaps a caution against relying on 'friendly' debt - which, incidentally, is what our Staprix debt is at the moment.
No chance will they, or any other club replicate Southampton without a billionaire Chairman nowadays.
Phil Gartside's insistence that relegation from the Premier League be stopped while they were hovering around 15th was a giveaway.
Would have thought it would make more sense to just write off the debt (if he can) rather than put them in to admin but who knows what the mess really looks like.
Didnt do Southampton any harm that first season in League One
Even if the numbers are not totally accurate he has, potentially, an £80m black hole in his finances. He can't convert it all to equity as he doesn't have it. That suggests that he has borrowed it elsewhere or guarantees the debts. Either way the person that, actually, owns that £80m will want interest on it.
Also his net worth will have been calculated based on his total asset base, including his house and his businesses. Remember how Simin Jordan and them at chap Mark someone did just the same with Palace?
Either way if Bolton's cash flow is restricted and they can't 'borrow' any more from Eddie Davies and he accepts that he will never get his money out administration might be the only answer. I can't, ever, see a club the size of Bolton paying that kind of money back, ever. Eventually it needs to be written off and if they owe just a couple of million elsewhere administration will save them that. No double they owe HMRC a few million. 1p in the £?
At least had a target to aim for and they were able to build on that... They could have ended up in the Play-Offs only to drop out due to the Administration deduction which could have made the Managers job harder next season as the players would have needed picking up after the disappointed
QPR's owners have written off £180 million.
My understanding is that the owner was worth a couple of hundred million, the figure of about £60 million was arrived at after the money spent on Bolton was deducted.
I suspect some monies are owed to other parties hence the possible attraction of administration.
The truth is that a Premier League adventure is expensive, especially for a club the size of Charlton or Bolton.
The debt probably will grow again and it would not be unreasonable for him to walk away, and this may be in his interests as well as the club's. Or he could hang on, look for investors that offer him the best long term return, whether that would be in the club's best interests is another matter.
The points deduction might not make any drfference to their season and if not it could save them a lot of money. Them being the new owners.
Agree.
If he was able to put the club into administration, come out of the process as owner and then sell, the price may be greater than what he would otherwise achieve.
The point about hanging on was in reference to what has happened elsewhere.
In reality though it's not been quite so good - but that may be down to the money being spent by people without a flipping clue and the intellectual assets of employees being chucked in the metaphorical skip when they were let go.....