"Digital 4 -2-3-1 v Analogue 4-4-2"

Henry Irving

@Tutt-Tutt mentioned this in another of his excellent post match reports after Brentford

Luzon seemed wedded to 442 but why and could we play 4231?

442 is a well known system so is it that is suited the players we had or that they. or the coach, couldn't handle anything different?

And do we have the players for 4231?

Yes, we can all slot players into the 10 spaces but can Cousins and Kashi fulfil the holder roles. Do we have the players for the front 4 positions.

redman

There is nothing wrong with 442 but in the modern era it needs flexibility and not the rigid way it was used by Luzon.

Having said that we don't have the players who suit 442 best. I have been saying for ages this doesn't get the best out of our players we currently have.
In the 4231 Mak would be the top with JBG and TW as 2 of the 3. Maybe Moussa as the third.

An alternative which I would prefer at the moment would be 4 3 21. This would mean a 3 of Cousins, Kashi and Jackson. With 3 they would have some freedom wheras in a 2 they are pretty much tied down.
This also allows JBG and TW to support Mak even more than in a 4231.

stevexreeve

Looked more like 8 2 on Saturday.

Don't know whether this is bad coaching or inevitable if the players aren't good enough.

ForeverAddickted

One of the many damages caused by Football Manager

Addickted2TheReds

Hendo
Solly Diarra Bauer Fox
Cousins Kashi
JBG Watt Moussa
Makienok

On paper (or if we were playing football manager), that would work. Unfortunately football doesn't really work like that!

I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY

i think we will start playing 4-2-3-1 under Fraeye.

Scoham

Addickted2TheReds said:

Hendo
Solly Diarra Bauer Fox
Cousins Kashi
JBG Watt Moussa
Makienok

On paper (or if we were playing football manager), that would work. Unfortunately football doesn't really work like that!

Not that different to how we played under Luzon. The wide players got forward and Watt liked to drop deep.

Garrymanilow

Addickted2TheReds said:

Hendo
Solly Diarra Bauer Fox
Cousins Kashi
JBG Watt Moussa
Makienok

On paper (or if we were playing football manager), that would work. Unfortunately football doesn't really work like that!

Watt would likely make a terrible number 10. When you're playing with three advanced players in behind a striker you want your 10 to be a player who can put his foot on the ball, get his head up and pick a pass. This is the total opposite of Tony's profile. Look at some of the best 10s in the game - Silva, Draxler, Turan, Mata etc, they all know how to bring their wingers into goalscoring positions, know how to release their striker, make use of overlapping fullbacks and play in an onrushing central midfielder. Watt can't do any of that at the moment; he's head down, run, hope for a defensive mistake. That can work, there is a place for a number 10 who is more of a pacey withdrawn striker but it requires a much for tactically all-round striker and we don't have that. Ceballos or Moussa would make a useful number 10. We'd be better off having Watt coming in off the wing than at 10. Unfortunately though, with the way Watt plays and his unwillingness to release the ball intelligently you want him as far up the pitch as possible so that he can hopefully get by the man in front of him and have a shot on goal. We really don't have an 11 that suits 4-2-3-1 all that well to be honest

Cousins Kashi
JBG Ceballos An actual left winger who can cross please Roland
Makienok

Addickted2TheReds

As I said, football manager or FIFA and you're laughing with that line up. In the real world.....

In your line-up though @Garrymanilow, this left-sided player you speak of, don't you just wish that was Bulot... :-(

FishCostaFortune

I remember once reading an article about how Roy Hodgson used to make his midfield and defensive four hold a rope when they trained so they got used to moving in banks of four and not lose their shape. Whilst undoubtedly at a certain time this rigidity was a very effective tactic and at the very least made you hard to break down, in today's game where teams press more, the full backs are more attacking and the team move with more fluidity it just does work to play that one dimensionally.

Teams clearly do their homework against Charlton and play the same way again us because they know we set up narrow and they just play in the gaps and move the ball quickly from side to side. I found yesterday really painful to watch, we are so rigid and structured we barely win a second ball unless it goes straight to a player.

Garrymanilow

Addickted2TheReds said:

As I said, football manager or FIFA and you're laughing with that line up. In the real world.....

In your line-up though @Garrymanilow, this left-sided player you speak of, don't you just wish that was Bulot... :-(

The failure to secure Bulot in what should have been the easiest transfer ever completed has to stand out as the worst bit of business the club have done this season. Left midfield has been a problem for years. Then suddenly we had a player whose natural position was left wing, was a bang in form goalscorer, and wanted to play for the club. And we knobbed it up, because of course we did.

Bolderhumphreyreid

Under Riga we played some of the most attacking football I've seen us play in recent years. He liked the 4-3-2-1 formation which could so easily be 4-2-3-1.

This included a certain Harriott who excelled in the role of a left forward.

If Carol plays this way then he may go some way to get the fans back on board.

Henderson
Solly - Diarra - Bauer - Fox
Cousins - Kashi
JBG - Watt - Harriott/Ceballos
Big Mak

Simonsen

Bolderhumphreyreid said:

Under Riga we played some of the most attacking football I've seen us play in recent years. He liked the 4-3-2-1 formation which could so easily be 4-2-3-1.

This included a certain Harriott who excelled in the role of a left forward.

If Carol plays this way then he may go some way to get the fans back on board.

Henderson
Solly - Diarra - Bauer - Fox
Cousins - Kashi
JBG - Watt - Harriott/Ceballos
Big Mak

That'd be ok but too many of those won't be available for a long while. Karel Fraeye will be faced with many of the same restrictions as Guy Luzon and will have to get Moussa up to speed at left-wing ASAP (and hope that Moussa doesn't break down again in the process).

Also he'll have to use Ba or Jackson instead of Kashi and he'll have to hope that Makienok's already twice damaged hamstring can cope with the extra running needed in a 4-5-1. He might be better off using Reza on his own but again that's risky injury-wise. Don't know for sure but did Reza play in a 4-5-1 at the World Cup?