It's a nice little number isn't it? He gets a fee, gets free food and drinks and a nice comfy seat, free West Stand car park pass (£800 for ordinary hard-working supporters) and can pretend he's still living the glory years. The old joke is probably apposite. Q. What's the difference between a non-exec chairman and a shopping trolly? A. The shopping trolley has a mind of its own but you can get more food and drink in the non-exec.
The first part of your post is ridiculously unfair (and surprising coming from you). He's lost millions over the years he led Charlton, I think he's earned his car park pass. He's also painfully aware of the truth of your non-exec chairman joke.
I don't pretend to know why he sticks around, but he has done his best to help establish dialogue between the Trust and the ownership. It's not his fault that it has not got very far, but without him it would be even less.
Can we ask what has come of the dialogue?
For sure that will be discussed on Thursday. I have no mandate to unilaterally discuss it here.
It's a nice little number isn't it? He gets a fee, gets free food and drinks and a nice comfy seat, free West Stand car park pass (£800 for ordinary hard-working supporters) and can pretend he's still living the glory years. The old joke is probably apposite. Q. What's the difference between a non-exec chairman and a shopping trolly? A. The shopping trolley has a mind of its own but you can get more food and drink in the non-exec.
The first part of your post is ridiculously unfair (and surprising coming from you). He's lost millions over the years he led Charlton, I think he's earned his car park pass. He's also painfully aware of the truth of your non-exec chairman joke.
I don't pretend to know why he sticks around, but he has done his best to help establish dialogue between the Trust and the ownership. It's not his fault that it has not got very far, but without him it would be even less.
Can we ask what has come of the dialogue?
For sure that will be discussed on Thursday. I have no mandate to unilaterally discuss it here.
I'd bet that he expresses his opinion behind closed doors, but Roly isn't someone who is interested in the opinions of people with more knowledge and experience, so it won't carry any weight. KM I have no sympathy for - if you don't want to be the target of fans' disaffection, don't take a job as frontman for a w**k*r.
As a board member (non-exec chairman), and to a lesser extent Keith Peacock, continue to wish to have their name associated with the Belgium Naffia, and ongoing shambles?
Not slagging either off, just don't know how they can stay part of it
Picking on Murray and Peacock is deflecting from the real culprit. Nothing to do with KM either this is down do Dutcherlet and him alone.
Not interested in KP or RM, but you are completely wrong about KM, in my view. She is paid to act as a buffer, and encouraging her to leave is the number one route to impact on RD.
Not sure I follow this. Why do you want to negatively impact further right now through KM?
RD is different as an owner and I'm not sure I follow his logic but he is investing some funds. They might be more limited than we would like but which but this is true for all but very few clubs. Unless there is a wealthy fan being denied the opportunity to buy in we don't have a realistic alternative.
The crowd shouted out for Luzon to be sacked or at least a vocal number did.
KM appears to be in a no win situation to me and if RD has decided to change the manager then I can't see that's a reflection on KM.
The MD / COO of most organisations can't please everybody all of the time and loyal staff and ex staff and customers (in this case fans) always feel particularly biased one way or another. But realistically what is so bad about the Operations side of the club that can't be fixed as issues are found and staff learn and react to feedback. None of us know all the constraints and issues on the day to day running that limit what can be changed or fixed either.
A further change i.e. KM seems of limited value to me.
I don't like changing the manager much either but sadly it isnt unique to Charlton.
If RD did nothing right now we would all be finding fault with that too - me included. Playing personnel can't be changed until the transfer window in any event.
The hope has to be the players are / were unhappy for some reason and this change buys us some impetus to get the team playing better.
Has he still got money tied up in the club? If he has then I suspect, like any one of us would, he wants his money back. So simply leaving isn't necessarily an option.
He owns the training ground or a big junk of it .......
Aah, another "Colin statement of fact" which is entirely incorrect. Colin - can I suggest you make an appointment to see a doctor? Dr. Maurice Lipsedge would be my suggestion. He's got his own web site with contact details if you want to look him up. He's top notch - even used by Royalty - so you'll be in safe hands.
It's a nice little number isn't it? He gets a fee, gets free food and drinks and a nice comfy seat, free West Stand car park pass (£800 for ordinary hard-working supporters) and can pretend he's still living the glory years. The old joke is probably apposite. Q. What's the difference between a non-exec chairman and a shopping trolly? A. The shopping trolley has a mind of its own but you can get more food and drink in the non-exec.
The first part of your post is ridiculously unfair (and surprising coming from you). He's lost millions over the years he led Charlton, I think he's earned his car park pass. He's also painfully aware of the truth of your non-exec chairman joke.
I don't pretend to know why he sticks around, but he has done his best to help establish dialogue between the Trust and the ownership. It's not his fault that it has not got very far, but without him it would be even less.
Yes, I was using extreme exaggeration to make a point. And, yes I know Murray lost money - a lot of us did. Thing is, I still remember getting screwed over for my shareholding without a word of apology or gratitude, while majority shareholders/lenders did their outmost to protect their own interests as far as was possible. Murray lost all my respect at that stage. The thing is, however potentially useful you think he might be as the only member of the board prepared to act as a conduit with fans, from his point of view there is almost no benefit other than the freebies to him being there. He's got his cast iron (no pun intended) contract to get dosh/interest if we should ever return (ha, ha!) to the promised land. He's got his own copy he doesn't have to be there every week to make sure RD doesn't order Meire to shred it.
Has he still got money tied up in the club? If he has then I suspect, like any one of us would, he wants his money back. So simply leaving isn't necessarily an option.
He owns the training ground or a big junk of it .......
Aah, another "Colin statement of fact" which is entirely incorrect. Colin - can I suggest you make an appointment to see a doctor? Dr. Maurice Lipsedge would be my suggestion. He's got his own web site with contact details if you want to look him up. He's top notch - even used by Royalty - so you'll be in safe hands.
It's a nice little number isn't it? He gets a fee, gets free food and drinks and a nice comfy seat, free West Stand car park pass (£800 for ordinary hard-working supporters) and can pretend he's still living the glory years. The old joke is probably apposite. Q. What's the difference between a non-exec chairman and a shopping trolly? A. The shopping trolley has a mind of its own but you can get more food and drink in the non-exec.
The first part of your post is ridiculously unfair (and surprising coming from you). He's lost millions over the years he led Charlton, I think he's earned his car park pass. He's also painfully aware of the truth of your non-exec chairman joke.
I don't pretend to know why he sticks around, but he has done his best to help establish dialogue between the Trust and the ownership. It's not his fault that it has not got very far, but without him it would be even less.
Yes, I was using extreme exaggeration to make a point. And, yes I know Murray lost money - a lot of us did. Thing is, I still remember getting screwed over for my shareholding without a word of apology or gratitude, while majority shareholders/lenders did their outmost to protect their own interests as far as was possible. Murray lost all my respect at that stage. The thing is, however potentially useful you think he might be as the only member of the board prepared to act as a conduit with fans, from his point of view there is almost no benefit other than the freebies to him being there. He's got his cast iron (no pun intended) contract to get dosh/interest if we should ever return (ha, ha!) to the promised land. He's got his own copy he doesn't have to be there every week to make sure RD doesn't order Meire to shred it.
Do you really think the "freebies" matter to him? Like all of us, he has his faults, but honestly, that's the last thing that concerns him. As Airman pointed out, we don't think he's getting a salary for his current role.
Has he still got money tied up in the club? If he has then I suspect, like any one of us would, he wants his money back. So simply leaving isn't necessarily an option.
As a board member (non-exec chairman), and to a lesser extent Keith Peacock, continue to wish to have their name associated with the Belgium Naffia, and ongoing shambles?
Not slagging either off, just don't know how they can stay part of it
Picking on Murray and Peacock is deflecting from the real culprit. Nothing to do with KM either this is down do Dutcherlet and him alone.
Not interested in KP or RM, but you are completely wrong about KM, in my view. She is paid to act as a buffer, and encouraging her to leave is the number one route to impact on RD.
Surley if she were to go RD would replace her like for like and that would achieve what
Has he still got money tied up in the club? If he has then I suspect, like any one of us would, he wants his money back. So simply leaving isn't necessarily an option.
He owns the training ground or a big junk of it .......
This is categorically untrue, Colin. Sparrows Lane, like The Valley, is owned by Charlton Athletic Holdings Limited, which like Charlton Athletic Football Company Limited Is a wholly owned subsidiary of Baton 2010 Limited. The latter is entirely owned by Staprix.
Has he still got money tied up in the club? If he has then I suspect, like any one of us would, he wants his money back. So simply leaving isn't necessarily an option.
He owns the training ground or a big junk of it .......
This is categorically untrue, Colin. Sparrows Lane, like The Valley, is owned by Charlton Athletic Holdings Limited, which like Charlton Athletic Football Company Limited Is a wholly owned subsidiary of Baton 2010 Limited. The latter is entirely owned by Staprix.
As a board member (non-exec chairman), and to a lesser extent Keith Peacock, continue to wish to have their name associated with the Belgium Naffia, and ongoing shambles?
Not slagging either off, just don't know how they can stay part of it
Picking on Murray and Peacock is deflecting from the real culprit. Nothing to do with KM either this is down do Dutcherlet and him alone.
Not interested in KP or RM, but you are completely wrong about KM, in my view. She is paid to act as a buffer, and encouraging her to leave is the number one route to impact on RD.
Not sure I follow this. Why do you want to negatively impact further right now through KM?
RD is different as an owner and I'm not sure I follow his logic but he is investing some funds. They might be more limited than we would like but which but this is true for all but very few clubs. Unless there is a wealthy fan being denied the opportunity to buy in we don't have a realistic alternative.
The crowd shouted out for Luzon to be sacked or at least a vocal number did.
KM appears to be in a no win situation to me and if RD has decided to change the manager then I can't see that's a reflection on KM.
The MD / COO of most organisations can't please everybody all of the time and loyal staff and ex staff and customers (in this case fans) always feel particularly biased one way or another. But realistically what is so bad about the Operations side of the club that can't be fixed as issues are found and staff learn and react to feedback. None of us know all the constraints and issues on the day to day running that limit what can be changed or fixed either.
A further change i.e. KM seems of limited value to me.
I don't like changing the manager much either but sadly it isnt unique to Charlton.
If RD did nothing right now we would all be finding fault with that too - me included. Playing personnel can't be changed until the transfer window in any event.
The hope has to be the players are / were unhappy for some reason and this change buys us some impetus to get the team playing better.
We are fans and will never be happy of course !
Welcome to Charlton Life Nick.
2 & 1/2 years to start posting but it was worth it in the end I suppose.
As a board member (non-exec chairman), and to a lesser extent Keith Peacock, continue to wish to have their name associated with the Belgium Naffia, and ongoing shambles?
Not slagging either off, just don't know how they can stay part of it
Picking on Murray and Peacock is deflecting from the real culprit. Nothing to do with KM either this is down do Dutcherlet and him alone.
Not interested in KP or RM, but you are completely wrong about KM, in my view. She is paid to act as a buffer, and encouraging her to leave is the number one route to impact on RD.
Not sure I follow this. Why do you want to negatively impact further right now through KM?
RD is different as an owner and I'm not sure I follow his logic but he is investing some funds. They might be more limited than we would like but which but this is true for all but very few clubs. Unless there is a wealthy fan being denied the opportunity to buy in we don't have a realistic alternative.
The crowd shouted out for Luzon to be sacked or at least a vocal number did.
KM appears to be in a no win situation to me and if RD has decided to change the manager then I can't see that's a reflection on KM.
The MD / COO of most organisations can't please everybody all of the time and loyal staff and ex staff and customers (in this case fans) always feel particularly biased one way or another. But realistically what is so bad about the Operations side of the club that can't be fixed as issues are found and staff learn and react to feedback. None of us know all the constraints and issues on the day to day running that limit what can be changed or fixed either.
A further change i.e. KM seems of limited value to me.
I don't like changing the manager much either but sadly it isnt unique to Charlton.
If RD did nothing right now we would all be finding fault with that too - me included. Playing personnel can't be changed until the transfer window in any event.
The hope has to be the players are / were unhappy for some reason and this change buys us some impetus to get the team playing better.
I was thinking that about Keith Peacock and that picture in votv of him sitting right next to KM.
That photo of Keefy sitting next to KM on Saturday made me feel really sad. There's a man with our club absolutely in his dna watching it all fall apart in front of him, yet he's still classy enough to keep his counsel.
He can't be happy with the situation and at his time of life surely doesn't need to be involved in the train wreck our club is at the moment. I'm sure it's only his deep loyalty to CAFC that stops him walking away but it must be taking a personal toll too.
I would much rather have RM and KP on the inside than not. Their influence is small but certainly better than nothing. As for KM we would be off without her. I can't believe a successful businessman like RD appoints anyone so blatantly incompetent and out of her depth
I wouldn't be surprised if it was Murray who volunteered the idea of having fraeye as interim manager initially...
I'd be surprised. Very surprised. But after @Henry Irving dragged up my bet against Fraeye last time round I suppose I'd better be careful.
And you refused to credit the stories in the Jeruselum Post about Luzon either. Can you tell who definatey isn't, no way at all going to be next manager so we can put a bet on them : - )
As a board member (non-exec chairman), and to a lesser extent Keith Peacock, continue to wish to have their name associated with the Belgium Naffia, and ongoing shambles?
Not slagging either off, just don't know how they can stay part of it
Picking on Murray and Peacock is deflecting from the real culprit. Nothing to do with KM either this is down do Dutcherlet and him alone.
Not interested in KP or RM, but you are completely wrong about KM, in my view. She is paid to act as a buffer, and encouraging her to leave is the number one route to impact on RD.
RD's attitude to KM is surely the same as to the 'Head Coach' and players? Selected and paid to do the job RD wants them to do and dispensed with at the moment they are deemed to underperform or achieve a predetermined economic value. She'll get promoted or pushed out on RD's whim. If she chooses to leave before then he'll just appoint his next in line with barely a shrug, won't he? As far as I can tell, all his employees are simply viewed as assets, spokes in a wheel if you like, unquestionably replaceable, indistinguishable in form or function. He's completely wrong obviously but remains unmoved in his policy.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was Murray who volunteered the idea of having fraeye as interim manager initially...
I'd be surprised. Very surprised. But after @Henry Irving dragged up my bet against Fraeye last time round I suppose I'd better be careful.
And you refused to credit the stories in the Jeruselum Post about Luzon either. Can you tell who definatey isn't, no way at all going to be next manager so we can put a bet on them : - )
You're absolutely right, I didn't. However at least as a result of that I got to know @Desert Red a bit more, who posted the stuff, and told me a lot more about Luzon. It is however his call whether he wants to return here and comment further.
What I have learnt from that episode, and the current one, is that football as a business absolutely stinks, more than I had realised, and that what is beyond the pale in most businesses is normal in football, and not just at FIFA. Right now I am trying to digest the information that a criminal investigation is under way in Belgium involving one of our former Head Coaches and a player. I will post something about that once I have got a factually reliable transcript that won't get this site into trouble, and understanding of what, if anything, it tells us further about RD.
Am I over-optimistic and naive about people and their motivations sometimes? Wrong as a result, sometimes? Yes, guilty as charged.
I am pleased to inform you that no way on earth will Marc Wilmots be our next Head Coach. Go ahead, lump on.
I've lost all respect for richard Murray, he can't honestly approve of the way we are being run but chooses to stay involved and in affect support the regim.
It's not like Richard Murray ran Charlton at a profit. Even during our Premier League stay revenue has always been insufficient to cover costs. Losses were compensated to some extent by profit on player sales, ie Darren Bent to Tottenham in 2007. The last time Charlton made a profit during the Murray era was 2004 and was almost entirely due to the sale of Scotty Parker.
Comments
KM I have no sympathy for - if you don't want to be the target of fans' disaffection, don't take a job as frontman for a w**k*r.
Sad but he has turned into a bumbling fool.
RD is different as an owner and I'm not sure I follow his logic but he is investing some funds. They might be more limited than we would like but which but this is true for all but very few clubs. Unless there is a wealthy fan being denied the opportunity to buy in we don't have a realistic alternative.
The crowd shouted out for Luzon to be sacked or at least a vocal number did.
KM appears to be in a no win situation to me and if RD has decided to change the manager then I can't see that's a reflection on KM.
The MD / COO of most organisations can't please everybody all of the time and loyal staff and ex staff and customers (in this case fans) always feel particularly biased one way or another. But realistically what is so bad about the Operations side of the club that can't be fixed as issues are found and staff learn and react to feedback. None of us know all the constraints and issues on the day to day running that limit what can be changed or fixed either.
A further change i.e. KM seems of limited value to me.
I don't like changing the manager much either but sadly it isnt unique to Charlton.
If RD did nothing right now we would all be finding fault with that too - me included. Playing personnel can't be changed until the transfer window in any event.
The hope has to be the players are / were unhappy for some reason and this change buys us some impetus to get the team playing better.
We are fans and will never be happy of course !
Thing is, I still remember getting screwed over for my shareholding without a word of apology or gratitude, while majority shareholders/lenders did their outmost to protect their own interests as far as was possible. Murray lost all my respect at that stage.
The thing is, however potentially useful you think he might be as the only member of the board prepared to act as a conduit with fans, from his point of view there is almost no benefit other than the freebies to him being there. He's got his cast iron (no pun intended) contract to get dosh/interest if we should ever return (ha, ha!) to the promised land. He's got his own copy he doesn't have to be there every week to make sure RD doesn't order Meire to shred it.
Was thinking that myself.
Why don't you stop talking out of your arse?
2 & 1/2 years to start posting but it was worth it in the end I suppose.
We want Luzon, KM RD out but who comes in?
So we go back to the problem until you can fund it to the extent RD is there not a lot you can do.
He can't be happy with the situation and at his time of life surely doesn't need to be involved in the train wreck our club is at the moment. I'm sure it's only his deep loyalty to CAFC that stops him walking away but it must be taking a personal toll too.
As for KM we would be off without her. I can't believe a successful businessman like RD appoints anyone so blatantly incompetent and out of her depth
What I have learnt from that episode, and the current one, is that football as a business absolutely stinks, more than I had realised, and that what is beyond the pale in most businesses is normal in football, and not just at FIFA. Right now I am trying to digest the information that a criminal investigation is under way in Belgium involving one of our former Head Coaches and a player. I will post something about that once I have got a factually reliable transcript that won't get this site into trouble, and understanding of what, if anything, it tells us further about RD.
Am I over-optimistic and naive about people and their motivations sometimes? Wrong as a result, sometimes? Yes, guilty as charged.
I am pleased to inform you that no way on earth will Marc Wilmots be our next Head Coach. Go ahead, lump on.