If we are not allowed to comment on what we think should be done, what are we doing on a football forum? When you buy a football club, you know that supporters are part of that. They are a source of revenue, but also support - hence the word supporter. It seems to me that the most successful period in the clubs recent history was when it worked well with supporters. It is true that the owner can do what he wants with his club, but it is our club too. We put money into the club - apart from being a season ticket holder when really there is no advantage to me, I also support valley gold for instance, to help the club fund youth development. I don't do that with Tesco or BP for example. If supporters can't express a view on a forum, we might as well all pack it in!
However, what I would say, the people that are currently against RD and his methods rarely have any constructive input.
If we are not allowed to comment on what we think should be done, what are we doing on a football forum? When you buy a football club, you know that supporters are part of that. They are a source of revenue, but also support - hence the word supporter. It seems to me that the most successful period in the clubs recent history was when it worked well with supporters. It is true that the owner can do what he wants with his club, but it is our club too. We put money into the club - apart from being a season ticket holder when really there is no advantage to me, I also support valley gold for instance, to help the club fund youth development. I don't do that with Tesco or BP for example. If supporters can't express a view on a forum, we might as well all pack it in!
However, what I would say, the people that are currently against RD and his methods rarely have any constructive input.
I stand corrected, said the man in the orthopedic shoes!
Not in anyway a bad person but I think this is a difficult job in which Roland does not help her (well apart from pay her wages)
She's talking about realism. She needs to be more realistic about how to communicate with fans of a club that she probably didn't even hear of until a few years ago.
We are obviously not going to be chasing promotion come January. We are not good enough. Bollocks to re-assessing.
If we are not allowed to comment on what we think should be done, what are we doing on a football forum? When you buy a football club, you know that supporters are part of that. They are a source of revenue, but also support - hence the word supporter. It seems to me that the most successful period in the clubs recent history was when it worked well with supporters. It is true that the owner can do what he wants with his club, but it is our club too. We put money into the club - apart from being a season ticket holder when really there is no advantage to me, I also support valley gold for instance, to help the club fund youth development. I don't do that with Tesco or BP for example. If supporters can't express a view on a forum, we might as well all pack it in!
However, what I would say, the people that are currently against RD and his methods rarely have any constructive input.
The same meaningless line was deployed in support of John Fryer and the move to Selhurst Park in 1985. We all invest in the club, financially, emotionally and in terms of our time. The idea that we are precluded from even having an opinion about the way it is run because we don't own the shares belongs to the 1950s.
But the reality is that our opinions do mean nothing, and until a supporter stumps up and buys the club our 'business' opinions will continue to mean nothing.
Hear what u say Greenie, but to say that a substantial wedge of positive income that comes from an engaged fanbase means nothing just doesn't add up. Ignore that and you get less loyalty, more apathy, lower spend, lower gates.
This isnt just a view of trust people, its common sense, and a view shared by more enlightened people in the game.
I understand Razil, but if 30% of our fanbase left cos we were all pissed off because of poor comms from the club, and then RD got us in the Prem the loss of those fans to RD ( I am of course speculating here) would be inconsequential because new fans would pay to see prem games, so in the great scheme of things we are as loyal fans redundant.
The Premiership can only be 18 clubs, but yes its a point of view. I went to a talk recently at Henley business school, the former COO of manu was there and I was surprised how similar his views were to mine on this. He's now ceo at Internazionale
Sorry, I have not read all of this thread, so do not know if it has been mentioned, but Jurgen Klopp has just said exactly the same message as KM, "Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day. "I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way. "I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful. "If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Sorry, I have not read all of this thread, so do not know if it has been mentioned, but Jurgen Klopp has just said exactly the same message as KM, "Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day. "I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way. "I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful. "If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Let's face it we're currently very dull and will continue to be a very dull treading water nothing club under RD
Our pleasure has to come from someone else's pain , step forward millwall and their wankiness making last season a great season but the yang to that ying is we have palace doing great things and that hurts
luckily for me i can deal with that
but woe betide that boring belgian if the scum rise from the ashes and start knocking on the premierships door , as we yo yo from 14th place to the heady heights of 12th in the championship , that wont be good enough !!
But for how long will we tread water before we drown?
Sorry, I have not read all of this thread, so do not know if it has been mentioned, but Jurgen Klopp has just said exactly the same message as KM, "Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day. "I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way. "I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful. "If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Exactly the same message as KM?! I don't recall her promising any silverware if she's still in the boardroom in 4 years!
Sorry, I have not read all of this thread, so do not know if it has been mentioned, but Jurgen Klopp has just said exactly the same message as KM, "Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day. "I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way. "I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful. "If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Sorry, I have not read all of this thread, so do not know if it has been mentioned, but Jurgen Klopp has just said exactly the same message as KM, "Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day. "I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way. "I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful. "If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Exactly the same message as KM?! I don't recall her promising any silverware if she's still in the boardroom in 4 years!
Alright, not exactly, but you know what I mean, the same general gist, but who knows, there may be silverware in the forseeable future, be positive
The same meaningless line was deployed in support of John Fryer and the move to Selhurst Park in 1985. We all invest in the club, financially, emotionally and in terms of our time. The idea that we are precluded from even having an opinion about the way it is run because we don't own the shares belongs to the 1950s.
But the reality is that our opinions do mean nothing, and until a supporter stumps up and buys the club our 'business' opinions will continue to mean nothing.
Hear what u say Greenie, but to say that a substantial wedge of positive income that comes from an engaged fanbase means nothing just doesn't add up. Ignore that and you get less loyalty, more apathy, lower spend, lower gates.
This isnt just a view of trust people, its common sense, and a view shared by more enlightened people in the game.
I understand Razil, but if 30% of our fanbase left cos we were all pissed off because of poor comms from the club, and then RD got us in the Prem the loss of those fans to RD ( I am of course speculating here) would be inconsequential because new fans would pay to see prem games, so in the great scheme of things we are as loyal fans redundant.
I tend to agree but of course some of the pissed off fans will still be here regardless including Airman Brown.
Thing is right now we're not in the Premier League and it doesn't look like we'll be there next season either (I hope we will and there's still time but it doesn't look like it right now)
So until we are promoted those fans and their opinions/views/money are consequential. Maybe not very consequential individually but every bit of lost income adds up and right now it matters because we don't have the Premier League/Sky money and we're losing money every year.
And what is odd is that most if not all of the concerns could be addressed without spending more money, but just by spending a bit more time and care communicating to fans.
Sorry, I have not read all of this thread, so do not know if it has been mentioned, but Jurgen Klopp has just said exactly the same message as KM, "Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day. "I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way. "I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful. "If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Somewhat easier to believe when said by a person with his pedigree.
For a lawyer it's quite shocking how bad she is with her words, every interview she does digs the hole even deeper. I know that some people won't like me saying this, but for me at least, I think this club would be much better off without Roland and Katrien. The almost constant lies and promises are building up. It's unbelievable that even now Roland thinks you can be successful in waiting till January to sign players, for someone who is so passionate about football he knows nothing and the same goes for Katrien, though no doubt some of her interviews are no more than a medium between Roland and the press. In the first 6 months or so of the takeover I brushed off the claims of the soul being ripped out of the club, but now I have to agree. Little things like program sellers etc. Then there's the cheerleaders and mascots.... It's honestly embarrassing what happens at the valley on match days. Next we'll have goal music. The point is, both of them seem to absolutely no regard for the traditions of the club. It really is hard to see where Roland sees profit coming from, you won't get it hanging around the bottom of the championship and at his age at his own admission he hasn't got long to wait about. You have to acknowledge what has been done, with the training ground etc. But all in all its hard to look at the overall state of the club nowadays and be happy with it. The days in league 1 with Powell seem an age away now.
So what we have is a football club with no real ambition.
In the sixties, my old man used to say to me "They don't want to go up, it will cost the board too much money". This owner isn't much better than the owners in the old days. He obviously doesn't want to risk putting money into a squad that still might not get there, as nothing is guaranteed in football. the difference is, the owners in the old days would never come out and say we are not likely to get promoted in the near future. Fans had to work it out for themselves. Admitting we are not going to have a proper go, is another PR disaster by the CEO.
I still believe the owner has come unstuck by totally under-estimating the strength of the Championship and is now trying to make the best of a bad deal, especially as FFP has effectively collapsed. That obviously means no expenditure over a restricted budget.
An emotional outburst after reading most of the previous postings.
Following CAFC has been subtely (or otherwise) changed for me from the hope and expectation of a win and points on a Saturday to an overriding fear of the club going into extinction if we did not have the backing of the new regieme. The owner provides a regular serving of cold porridge for us to watch on match days and the CEO tells us that this is what the budget allows and we should be grateful. They know that the fans ingrained loyalty will accept lowering expectations to keep the club alive and continue to support his business (mis)adventure with their hard-earned money.
The whole experience for me has become very "grey". The major effort is behind accountants balancing the books lead by a solicitor spokesperson who unfortunately thinks she capable of conning us all the time. I fully appreciate the need to have proper financing in place but is this it??
I deeply miss the emotion of following my team. Those moments of total fulfillment and pride provided by a win (or a good performance). To feel the pride following a football team out to achieve the best it can on the pitch. I don't like the feeling that the fans are there just to support a millionaire's long-term plan to achieve another healthy return on his investment. We might as well be producing wiggets.
Sorry, I have not read all of this thread, so do not know if it has been mentioned, but Jurgen Klopp has just said exactly the same message as KM, "Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day. "I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way. "I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful. "If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Exactly the same message as KM?! I don't recall her promising any silverware if she's still in the boardroom in 4 years!
Alright, not exactly, but you know what I mean, the same general gist, but who knows, there may be silverware in the forseeable future, be positive
Be positive? The only thing B+ about me is my blood group.
I've spent almost half a season away from The Valley after drifting away a little more than disillusioned but still unable to narrow it down to any particular one thing as to why it happened. But the more I read the less likely that is to change. As I said at the time we could sign Manchester Utd's entire squad and that wouldn't change my mind. RD's lack of investment (really) Ive no idea how much he has spent obviously someone has and that would be the man himself. KM, once again, I met the lady and she seems a nice enough lady good at her job? RD thinks so and he pays the bills and all the while his name is above the door I can't see that changing. Lack of communication from the club? From my own experience after firing off an email stating pretty much that I wouldn't be renewing, I received no response (didn't really expect one) which seems to be the norm. UNTIL I DIDNT RENEW, then I got a bulk standard (no pun intended) we see you haven't renewed. Not disimular to the email I got from Kuoni this year asking if I was going on holiday this year as they had noticed I hadn't booked with them as I had done in the past. So it suggests to me that RD wishes to run the club as a profit making scheme (good luck with that one RD) But, surely if you are running a business the idea is to keep the punters happy? and forgetting the team for a second, as HI rightly says you don't need to chuck money at it. But the whole aspect of looking after the customer base appears to have been brushed aside, with this "I will do want I want" attitude. Well Roland as you rightly say, you can do what want with the club, but you won't do it with my money. As I said to my old boss, as the country went through the recession and the company treated employees like dirt. One day you sit back and wonder where your Engineers/supporters have gone and think "Fuck it" maybe we should have gone about that slightly differently! Hey, but what do I know? Im just a bald, almost sixty year old supporter, apparently the perfect fit for nots wanted around the club, so you carry on as you are and good luck trying to make a profit on a club with an 8k fanbase. Because from where Im sitting thats where your heading.................. One things for sure it won't give me any pleasure watching Directors and supporters past hard work wrecked because you "did what you wanted" But one things for sure, if I had invested the sort of money you have. I would have surrounded myself with people that know and love this great football club of ours, people that would have run through walls for Charlton Athletic and right now thats what you need.
The reality is we were spoilt in the days of Murray/Varney/Curbs and even Powell as we had people at the top who genuinely knew what CAFC means emotionally.
Now we have a few threads holding that together in the likes of Jackson, Euell, Solly and Cousins, but of those only JJ has real leadership/ comms influence. It's all just slowly eroding into a hard - nosed rational experiment.
I'm really not sure what it is but I don't think it's an experiment.
RD seems like a stay of execution, rather than a saviour
I think the club are financially secure. Have a plan to establish a very good academy and look to buy cheap and sell high but I don't see any plan other than all that working out at some unknown point in the future.
It might well make us a type of Crewe Alexandra of the Champioship but I can't see it all coming together enough to produce a team capable of challenging.
Perhaps that's it. Perhaps RD is quite happy to leave as his legacy a club on a sound footing. Anything else will be a bonus.
I'm really not sure what it is but I don't think it's an experiment.
RD seems like a stay of execution, rather than a saviour
Agree with this, we are financially secure as long as RD is here but think we will be in real trouble when he or his relatives decide to sell up looking for a profit despite his naive plan having no chance of increasing our value enough to even break even on all his investment, what happens to our club then is my biggest fear.
Comments
Not in anyway a bad person but I think this is a difficult job in which Roland does not help her (well apart from pay her wages)
She's talking about realism. She needs to be more realistic about how to communicate with fans of a club that she probably didn't even hear of until a few years ago.
We are obviously not going to be chasing promotion come January. We are not good enough. Bollocks to re-assessing.
"Twenty-five years ago is a long time," said Klopp. "History is only the base for us; [we shouldn't] keep the history in our backpack all day.
"I want to see the first step next week and not always compare with other times. This is a great club with big potential. Everything is there. Let's try to start a new way.
"I ask, please give us time. If you are patient and are prepared to work, in a special Liverpool way we can be successful.
"If I am sitting here in four years, we will win one title [piece of silverware] in this time."
Burn Him!!!!
Organ grinders and monkeys come to mind but even if her ambition is mediocrity, we still has some way to go before we achieve it.
The owner is doing very nicely on his modest investment thank you and that's all that matters.
What's the opposite of inspirational?
Thing is right now we're not in the Premier League and it doesn't look like we'll be there next season either (I hope we will and there's still time but it doesn't look like it right now)
So until we are promoted those fans and their opinions/views/money are consequential. Maybe not very consequential individually but every bit of lost income adds up and right now it matters because we don't have the Premier League/Sky money and we're losing money every year.
And what is odd is that most if not all of the concerns could be addressed without spending more money, but just by spending a bit more time and care communicating to fans.
I know that some people won't like me saying this, but for me at least, I think this club would be much better off without Roland and Katrien. The almost constant lies and promises are building up. It's unbelievable that even now Roland thinks you can be successful in waiting till January to sign players, for someone who is so passionate about football he knows nothing and the same goes for Katrien, though no doubt some of her interviews are no more than a medium between Roland and the press. In the first 6 months or so of the takeover I brushed off the claims of the soul being ripped out of the club, but now I have to agree. Little things like program sellers etc. Then there's the cheerleaders and mascots.... It's honestly embarrassing what happens at the valley on match days. Next we'll have goal music.
The point is, both of them seem to absolutely no regard for the traditions of the club.
It really is hard to see where Roland sees profit coming from, you won't get it hanging around the bottom of the championship and at his age at his own admission he hasn't got long to wait about. You have to acknowledge what has been done, with the training ground etc. But all in all its hard to look at the overall state of the club nowadays and be happy with it. The days in league 1 with Powell seem an age away now.
The days in league 1 with Roland and co might not be too long to wait for.
Kermogant go and not replacing them with likewise skilled players!
In the sixties, my old man used to say to me "They don't want to go up, it will cost the board too much money". This owner isn't much better than the owners in the old days. He obviously doesn't want to risk putting money into a squad that still might not get there, as nothing is guaranteed in football. the difference is, the owners in the old days would never come out and say we are not likely to get promoted in the near future. Fans had to work it out for themselves. Admitting we are not going to have a proper go, is another PR disaster by the CEO.
I still believe the owner has come unstuck by totally under-estimating the strength of the Championship and is now trying to make the best of a bad deal, especially as FFP has effectively collapsed. That obviously means no expenditure over a restricted budget.
Following CAFC has been subtely (or otherwise) changed for me from the hope and expectation of a win and points on a Saturday to an overriding fear of the club going into extinction if we did not have the backing of the new regieme. The owner provides a regular serving of cold porridge for us to watch on match days and the CEO tells us that this is what the budget allows and we should be grateful. They know that the fans ingrained loyalty will accept lowering expectations to keep the club alive and continue to support his business (mis)adventure with their hard-earned money.
The whole experience for me has become very "grey". The major effort is behind accountants balancing the books lead by a solicitor spokesperson who unfortunately thinks she capable of conning us all the time. I fully appreciate the need to have proper financing in place but is this it??
I deeply miss the emotion of following my team. Those moments of total fulfillment and pride provided by a win (or a good performance). To feel the pride following a football team out to achieve the best it can on the pitch. I don't like the feeling that the fans are there just to support a millionaire's long-term plan to achieve another healthy return on his investment. We might as well be producing wiggets.
There, that feels better.
Come on you Reds! Charlton forever!
Now we have a few threads holding that together in the likes of Jackson, Euell, Solly and Cousins, but of those only JJ has real leadership/ comms influence. It's all just slowly eroding into a hard - nosed rational experiment.
It might well make us a type of Crewe Alexandra of the Champioship but I can't see it all coming together enough to produce a team capable of challenging.
Perhaps that's it. Perhaps RD is quite happy to leave as his legacy a club on a sound footing. Anything else will be a bonus.
Fecked if I can work it out.