Keeper had a shocker as did Fox and Sarr, Solly had a poor game by his standards.
Love Kashi, but we need someone creative alongside him.
Would have taken Watt off as he was trying to do too much and it wasn't working, however in Luzons defence big Mak was feeling his hamstring a few minutes before e was subbed and that can be the only reason
Onwards and upwards but on the season so far we will end up a (fairly) solid mid table side
It appears to me that we can cope with teams that attack us at the valley.
Last night, and against Rotherham it looked to me like we had no ideas going forward against teams looking to park the bus.
The ref didn't help on Saturday but last night we were way to narrow!
In fairness, Huddersfield attacked us constantly for the whole first half and deserved to be two up. What they did, which we aren't giving them enough credit for, is keep us at arms length for the whole second half.
First of all credit to Huddersfield. They look sharp throughout and were well prepared. Tactically spot on and scored their goals when they were well on top. Looked far from a relegation team. But, it takes two to tango.......
I struggle to remember the last time we had 7 or 8 players throw in a stinker at the same time. Hopefully it's not the sign of a deeper problem at SL.
I've given up with Pope now. If he cannot make simple saves without the ball going away from him, he'll never make it. He's had long enough.
The full backs seemed to be beaten at will and we saw how much Diarra was missed both as a player and leader.
In midfield we struggled to make the right choices and seemed determined to slow the game down at every opportunity. Up front we were woeful. Makienok doesn't seem fit and Tony Watt needs to use his brain when things aren't going well, leave the sulky bête noir in your riverside flat.
All in all a disappointing couple of games but that happens, even in our best seasons it happens. What matters is how we come back in our next couple of league games (don't care if Palace stuff us) - over to you Mr Luzon.
I don't agree that we were outplayed. But we didn't do nearly enough with the ball. Side to side to side to side. Huddersfield set up two banks of 4 and we couldn't break them.
Miller was best player on the pitch.
I won't get into individual Charlton performances because there is hardly a positive to say.
Really need to just move on to the next game and forget about that one.
Only positive was that I enjoyed crossbars and was surprised how empty it was. Made getting a couple pints easy. Terrible IPA though.
It was pretty awful. As others have said Pope, Saar, Fox, Ba, Watt and Mak all had stinkers. We really have to play Cousins in the centre. Neither Kashi or Ba were willing to run into space with the ball and so could not carve out forward passing options and we end up going backwards all the time.
Could not make this one, and seems by reading your comments that the funeral I attended yesterday was only slightly less miserable than our performance. Marks are truly abysmal too! Hope this is not the start of a repeat of what happened last season.
Well that (and Saturday) brought us back to reality with a thump and although it's far too early to get worried, we are looking much more like a bottom half of the table team than a top half one.
Some random thoughts (apologies I know must of them already said):-
1) Let's give a bit of credit to Huddersfield. Their forwards -Scannell and Miller in particular - were outstanding and they caused our defence all sorts of problems. How on earth had they only scored 3 goals all season before last night.
2) Bob Peeters wasted half a season playing Cousins out wide left. Don't say GL is going to do exactly the same? If he does, he might go the same way as Peeters a lot quicker than he thinks. Playing Cousins wide simply doesn't work - particularly at home - as there is no width down that side. Time for GL to perm 2 from 3 of Cousins, Kashi, and Ba and play them in central midfield.
3) We still desperately need a wide left midfield player. Young McAleny looked useful but doesn't look to me a natural wide left player.
4) I'm a great Nick Pope fan but even I am beginning to think he really does need to start stopping shots hit straight at him. There's huge potential there but he can't keep making mistakes.
5) Tony Watt frustrated the hell out of me last night. Trying to beat 5 players every time he got the ball was crazy. More worrying, as Fanny Fanackapan mentioned above, was the way him and JBG were arguing as the game went on and I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that the pair seemed to stop passing to each other. So much potential here but this has the makings of something that could go so very wrong.
6) And I'm sorry to say this one - and I wait for Prague Addick to have another go at me - but Vetokele in his short spell at substitute was completely anonymous. Again. I know it's hard to come on late in the game and get quickly up to speed but he just didn't get involved. I don't know whether his problems are physical or mental but he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team at the moment until he can sort himself out.
Well that (and Saturday) brought us back to reality with a thump and although it's far too early to get worried, we are looking much more like a bottom half of the table team than a top half one.
Some random thoughts (apologies I know must of them already said):-
1) Let's give a bit of credit to Huddersfield. Their forwards -Scannell and Miller in particular - were outstanding and they caused our defence all sorts of problems. How on earth had they only scored 3 goals all season before last night.
2) Bob Peeters wasted half a season playing Cousins out wide left. Don't say GL is going to do exactly the same? If he does, he might go the same way as Peeters a lot quicker than he thinks. Playing Cousins wide simply doesn't work - particularly at home - as there is no width down that side. Time for GL to perm 2 from 3 of Cousins, Kashi, and Ba and play them in central midfield.
3) We still desperately need a wide left midfield player. Young McAleny looked useful but doesn't look to me a natural wide left player.
4) I'm a great Nick Pope fan but even I am beginning to think he really does need to start stopping shots hit straight at him. There's huge potential there but he can't keep making mistakes.
5) Tony Watt frustrated the hell out of me last night. Trying to beat 5 players every time he got the ball was crazy. More worrying, as Fanny Fanackapan mentioned above, was the way him and JBG were arguing as the game went on and I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that the pair seemed to stop passing to each other. So much potential here but this has the makings of something that could go so very wrong.
6) And I'm sorry to say this one - and I wait for Prague Addick to have another go at me - but Vetokele in his short spell at substitute was completely anonymous. Again. I know it's hard to come on late in the game and get quickly up to speed but he just didn't get involved. I don't know whether his problems are physical or mental but he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team at the moment until he can sort himself out.
Ha don't take it personally.
Vetokele is toilet at the moment and not earning his wages. Unarguable Conclusion. I've seen many a striker having a mare make a few aggressive challenges due to frustration.
What's the reason? Who knows but if you were to speculate it's either he was on form not representative of his normal ability (can happen, ask Darren Pitcher) or he played out of his skin for peeters and won't for Luzon
Simon Makienok is cack at this level (sorry Simon!) There I've said it. I can see why people think that's bullshit and it's just an opinion. He is easy to love but he will never be a footballer. Soft as shite IMO, and again that's not easy to see on the surface but look deeper and he is a nightmare. Great at flicking the ball behind him, but no idea who to. Worst understanding of how the game is played I've seen for a long time. Sure he can improve, I actually think is physique is unsuited to football, probably make a good second row forward, but only in the line out.
There are plenty of players who never seem to have a bad game on the surface but it's a facade.
I don't think that's offensive btw, to be constructive he should work on his leg muscles and in training practice hitting that far post with his run. Should be faking towards the near post, spin and hit the back post. He doesn't even attempt the dummy run, which I find perplexing.
Where to start. You would have had more fun at the dentist. We should get behind Pope until Hendo's fit; it does not suit our purposes to reduce him into a bag of nerves. Thats a selfish view and not necessarily a loyal one. We know from freekicks in good areas JBG will be there or thereabouts virtually always; therefore, why the hell let Kashi take it.
I do not think there's anything wrong with out team apart from playing Jordan on the wing... We need to recognise that we aren't coping when oppos play with eight players behind the ball, we are simply unable to play to our players' best when deep in a crowded oppo half. We need better tactics to cope with spoiling teams, it was a problem last year and affected self belief and we went into a spiral... It's down to the Guv to come up with a game plan to deal with these teams not having our players rushing up and making for even crowder playing space...
Hull and QPR play a Premiership type open play game that suits us but most teams will not play that way... It's tactics NOT the players' skills in doubt here I believe.
Oh and JBG and tww have to sort it out. What I saw and heard on saturday was unacceptable and it's obviously rolled into last night
Yeah there were a few times last night when Gudmundsson was free on the right and was completely ignored by Watt.
Almost as though both are competing to be the best flair player within the club... If that is the case then lads, I dont care who is the best, how about both of you work your socks off and work with the team around you
Quite strange that people are annoyed over Diarra being dropped... Yes it wasnt the right call from Guy at the end of the day but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
(1) Alou is 34-years old... From the Rotherham match we've got five games in two weeks so a rest would have been required for him.
(2) Naby Sarr albeit young, needs game time himself else if we leave him on the bench with no game time he's either going to be rusty when required (maybe due to injuries) or come January he'll want to go, that means there will be some games we'll be required to play him... You wouldnt want Luzon giving him match time against the big opposition so playing him against a side who'd failed to win all season wasnt the worst idea.
Ultimately it did backfire but of course, hindsight is wonderful
Oh and JBG and tww have to sort it out. What I saw and heard on saturday was unacceptable and it's obviously rolled into last night
Yeah there were a few times last night when Gudmundsson was free on the right and was completely ignored by Watt.
Almost as though both are competing to be the best flair player within the club... If that is the case then lads, I dont care who is the best, how about both of you work your socks off and work with the team around you
Oh and JBG and tww have to sort it out. What I saw and heard on saturday was unacceptable and it's obviously rolled into last night
Yeah there were a few times last night when Gudmundsson was free on the right and was completely ignored by Watt.
Almost as though both are competing to be the best flair player within the club... If that is the case then lads, I dont care who is the best, how about both of you work your socks off and work with the team around you
Or go. Quality players but we can't afford that in our team if this is true
Sorry, attempting unsuccessfully for the tenth time to post what follows hence the empty post above. Gremlins in the works.
Waited till morning as too angry last night to post sensibly. Most of if has been said in the meantime by others. My main sentiments the morning after are:
1. That was even worse than Saturday. Lessons very clearly not learned which is worrying.
2. Can understand why Sarr was selected. He's our third choice CB and needs game time. Might as well be at home against a team who beforehand could reasonably be imagined to provide little attacking threat.
3. The last time I'm going to waste my time writing this but COUSINS ON TH|E LEFT DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!! Got it Guy? Good lad. Don't do it again.
4. We have to sort out the left side. I do not think Fox is good enough despite his improvement this year but it is hard/harsh to berate the lad when he has absolutely no support in front of him. Allowing Bulot to depart was criminally negligent.
5. Snuff out JBG and Twat (misspelling deliberate in the circumstances) and we have no threat. When they both have bummers at the same time as they did last night we are totally pedestrian and predictable.
6. Kashi, Ba and JC is a perm any two from three scenario. I know which two I'd pick.
7. Pope may make it but I doubt it will be at this level or with us. Too much baggage already.
8. Feeling eerily reminiscent of last season. Good start, rude awakening etc. The good news is that I don't detect many signs of an unsettled camp or dissent in the ranks like last year where a number of players clearly lost the plot. Watt maybe but that is him, not us and Solly doesn't look very happy to me but I think we still have the makings of a happy camp.
9. Notwithstanding 8 above, I didn't get the feeling last night as I did on Saturday that it was all hands to the pump till the last breath despite our 3 1 6 formation at the end. It felt like the game was up from quite early on and that is a worry.
10. Despite the all round awfulness of that display, we missed four excellent chances in the second half. Had two of those in I suspect we'd be writing a different story this morning which would be papering over the cracks.
11 Anyone on this thread or on player marks awarding MOTM to anyone in a red shirt last night needs to go to specsavers.
Oh and JBG and tww have to sort it out. What I saw and heard on saturday was unacceptable and it's obviously rolled into last night
Yeah there were a few times last night when Gudmundsson was free on the right and was completely ignored by Watt.
Almost as though both are competing to be the best flair player within the club... If that is the case then lads, I dont care who is the best, how about both of you work your socks off and work with the team around you
Or go. Quality players but we can't afford that in our team if this is true
Need to have Keith Peacock sit them down... Think its on the Centenary DVD when he says: "When we came up to the Premier League, nobody acted like they were stars... We had a few players who knew they were stars but didnt act like it"... If we've got players like that here we could do with them taking this attitude onboard.
If anyone is an actual Star in my eyes in the team then its Alou Diarra who can say he's played in a World Cup Final
Pope, not an error the ball was slammed at him, will watch it agin, if Im wrong Ill amend. Solly, 1 game a week is his limit I think Sarr, Bullied all game, I thought he was supposed to be a tough guy. Bauer, as Sarr but to a lesser degree. Fox, oh dear he looked like the timid frightened Fox of early last season, can the real Morgan stand up please. Cousins, poor bugger annexed out on the wing, played better in the middle, but we all knew that. Did OK Kashi, tried to hold the team together. did OK Ba, JJ in for next game please (if he keeps Cousins wide). he was pelt. JBG, CP had two players on him every time he got the ball, became anonymous. Big Mak, Did what he had to do, plus was stretching his hammy several times. TWWW - Park footballer last night, after several attempts to beat every 'Udders player around him I found myself yelling 'pass the fucking ball you fucking prick' but he still didn't.
New Fella, tried and had Churches new Puma Spongy Boots on. Berdych too lightweight. and positionally a little lost at times, not sure when to go forward.
We will get murdered by the Stripey twats anyone want to buy my ticket.
Huddersfield are probably better than their current position suggests. We had a couple of good chances in the 2nd half but we didn't take them. Ditto with them as well to be fair. It was a frustrating performance but we did create some opportunities and a little more composure in front of goal could have made a huge difference to the outcome. I think a lot of our games will be very tight this season, we have started really well, but unless we can maintain that earlier high level of performance I think these sort of games will be pretty close affairs, going either way.
Both Rotherham and Hud's doubled up on JBG and Watt, he needed to switch JBG over to the left flank to confuse things.
Playing without a left winger is not working, he needs to decide on his middle two. Cousins and Kash in the middle and get a left winger in!
Its typical Charlton, we play well against teams that attack us. When we meet the poor sides we slip up as they nick a goal and park the bus.
The world has not ended. We will play worse than that last night and win this season.
COYR's
I'm glad you referenced the Watt/JBG bit Rob Roy. They are our two most dangerous players. Other managers/teams only have to do their homework and know that if you restrict them, you restrict us.
Watt had a poor game last night, and was guilty of trying to do too much on his own. However, I remember an incident in the 1st half when he got the ball and had 3 players on him pretty much straight away. It's too many.
CP had obviously told them to get tight on him, and however good he is at dribbling and running with the ball, he's not Messi. I believe a few of the times he ran into trouble was also down to the fact he had no outlet. As he and JBG are our most creative players, it must be frustrating for them if they have the ball and see a lack of movement anywhere else.
Unfortunately they're both going to be marked well for the remainder of this season, so we have to find a way to overcome that. Despite both having mediocre games in the last 2 matches, I'm confident they both have the talent to start hurting teams again, but we need others to help give them the space to do damage
Oh boy that was a shocker of a performance! Right from the off Huddersfield were in our faces and we got bullied all over the pitch..How many more times is Cousins going to be played out on the left before Luzon works out he can't play there?
Stinkers from most of the team but hay ho such is life.Back to business on Saturday at Blackburn.
Please don't play like that against Palarse or we'll get a proper hammering.
Comments
Keeper had a shocker as did Fox and Sarr, Solly had a poor game by his standards.
Love Kashi, but we need someone creative alongside him.
Would have taken Watt off as he was trying to do too much and it wasn't working, however in Luzons defence big Mak was feeling his hamstring a few minutes before e was subbed and that can be the only reason
Onwards and upwards but on the season so far we will end up a (fairly) solid mid table side
I struggle to remember the last time we had 7 or 8 players throw in a stinker at the same time. Hopefully it's not the sign of a deeper problem at SL.
I've given up with Pope now. If he cannot make simple saves without the ball going away from him, he'll never make it. He's had long enough.
The full backs seemed to be beaten at will and we saw how much Diarra was missed both as a player and leader.
In midfield we struggled to make the right choices and seemed determined to slow the game down at every opportunity. Up front we were woeful. Makienok doesn't seem fit and Tony Watt needs to use his brain when things aren't going well, leave the sulky bête noir in your riverside flat.
All in all a disappointing couple of games but that happens, even in our best seasons it happens. What matters is how we come back in our next couple of league games (don't care if Palace stuff us) - over to you Mr Luzon.
I don't agree that we were outplayed. But we didn't do nearly enough with the ball. Side to side to side to side. Huddersfield set up two banks of 4 and we couldn't break them.
Miller was best player on the pitch.
I won't get into individual Charlton performances because there is hardly a positive to say.
Really need to just move on to the next game and forget about that one.
Only positive was that I enjoyed crossbars and was surprised how empty it was. Made getting a couple pints easy. Terrible IPA though.
Some random thoughts (apologies I know must of them already said):-
1) Let's give a bit of credit to Huddersfield. Their forwards -Scannell and Miller in particular - were outstanding and they caused our defence all sorts of problems. How on earth had they only scored 3 goals all season before last night.
2) Bob Peeters wasted half a season playing Cousins out wide left. Don't say GL is going to do exactly the same? If he does, he might go the same way as Peeters a lot quicker than he thinks. Playing Cousins wide simply doesn't work - particularly at home - as there is no width down that side. Time for GL to perm 2 from 3 of Cousins, Kashi, and Ba and play them in central midfield.
3) We still desperately need a wide left midfield player. Young McAleny looked useful but doesn't look to me a natural wide left player.
4) I'm a great Nick Pope fan but even I am beginning to think he really does need to start stopping shots hit straight at him. There's huge potential there but he can't keep making mistakes.
5) Tony Watt frustrated the hell out of me last night. Trying to beat 5 players every time he got the ball was crazy. More worrying, as Fanny Fanackapan mentioned above, was the way him and JBG were arguing as the game went on and I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that the pair seemed to stop passing to each other. So much potential here but this has the makings of something that could go so very wrong.
6) And I'm sorry to say this one - and I wait for Prague Addick to have another go at me - but Vetokele in his short spell at substitute was completely anonymous. Again. I know it's hard to come on late in the game and get quickly up to speed but he just didn't get involved. I don't know whether his problems are physical or mental but he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team at the moment until he can sort himself out.
Vetokele is toilet at the moment and not earning his wages. Unarguable Conclusion. I've seen many a striker having a mare make a few aggressive challenges due to frustration.
What's the reason? Who knows but if you were to speculate it's either he was on form not representative of his normal ability (can happen, ask Darren Pitcher) or he played out of his skin for peeters and won't for Luzon
Simon Makienok is cack at this level (sorry Simon!) There I've said it. I can see why people think that's bullshit and it's just an opinion. He is easy to love but he will never be a footballer. Soft as shite IMO, and again that's not easy to see on the surface but look deeper and he is a nightmare. Great at flicking the ball behind him, but no idea who to. Worst understanding of how the game is played I've seen for a long time. Sure he can improve, I actually think is physique is unsuited to football, probably make a good second row forward, but only in the line out.
There are plenty of players who never seem to have a bad game on the surface but it's a facade.
I don't think that's offensive btw, to be constructive he should work on his leg muscles and in training practice hitting that far post with his run. Should be faking towards the near post, spin and hit the back post. He doesn't even attempt the dummy run, which I find perplexing.
We should get behind Pope until Hendo's fit; it does not suit our purposes to reduce him into a bag of nerves. Thats a selfish view and not necessarily a loyal one.
We know from freekicks in good areas JBG will be there or thereabouts virtually always; therefore, why the hell let Kashi take it.
Hull and QPR play a Premiership type open play game that suits us but most teams will not play that way... It's tactics NOT the players' skills in doubt here I believe.
Almost as though both are competing to be the best flair player within the club... If that is the case then lads, I dont care who is the best, how about both of you work your socks off and work with the team around you
Playing without a left winger is not working, he needs to decide on his middle two. Cousins and Kash in the middle and get a left winger in!
Its typical Charlton, we play well against teams that attack us. When we meet the poor sides we slip up as they nick a goal and park the bus.
The world has not ended. We will play worse than that last night and win this season.
COYR's
(1) Alou is 34-years old... From the Rotherham match we've got five games in two weeks so a rest would have been required for him.
(2) Naby Sarr albeit young, needs game time himself else if we leave him on the bench with no game time he's either going to be rusty when required (maybe due to injuries) or come January he'll want to go, that means there will be some games we'll be required to play him... You wouldnt want Luzon giving him match time against the big opposition so playing him against a side who'd failed to win all season wasnt the worst idea.
Ultimately it did backfire but of course, hindsight is wonderful
Waited till morning as too angry last night to post sensibly. Most of if has been said in the meantime by others. My main sentiments the morning after are:
1. That was even worse than Saturday. Lessons very clearly not learned which is worrying.
2. Can understand why Sarr was selected. He's our third choice CB and needs game time. Might as well be at home against a team who beforehand could reasonably be imagined to provide little attacking threat.
3. The last time I'm going to waste my time writing this but COUSINS ON TH|E LEFT DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!! Got it Guy? Good lad. Don't do it again.
4. We have to sort out the left side. I do not think Fox is good enough despite his improvement this year but it is hard/harsh to berate the lad when he has absolutely no support in front of him. Allowing Bulot to depart was criminally negligent.
5. Snuff out JBG and Twat (misspelling deliberate in the circumstances) and we have no threat. When they both have bummers at the same time as they did last night we are totally pedestrian and predictable.
6. Kashi, Ba and JC is a perm any two from three scenario. I know which two I'd pick.
7. Pope may make it but I doubt it will be at this level or with us. Too much baggage already.
8. Feeling eerily reminiscent of last season. Good start, rude awakening etc. The good news is that I don't detect many signs of an unsettled camp or dissent in the ranks like last year where a number of players clearly lost the plot. Watt maybe but that is him, not us and Solly doesn't look very happy to me but I think we still have the makings of a happy camp.
9. Notwithstanding 8 above, I didn't get the feeling last night as I did on Saturday that it was all hands to the pump till the last breath despite our 3 1 6 formation at the end. It felt like the game was up from quite early on and that is a worry.
10. Despite the all round awfulness of that display, we missed four excellent chances in the second half. Had two of those in I suspect we'd be writing a different story this morning which would be papering over the cracks.
11 Anyone on this thread or on player marks awarding MOTM to anyone in a red shirt last night needs to go to specsavers.
Bah humbug.
If anyone is an actual Star in my eyes in the team then its Alou Diarra who can say he's played in a World Cup Final
Pope, not an error the ball was slammed at him, will watch it agin, if Im wrong Ill amend.
Solly, 1 game a week is his limit I think
Sarr, Bullied all game, I thought he was supposed to be a tough guy.
Bauer, as Sarr but to a lesser degree.
Fox, oh dear he looked like the timid frightened Fox of early last season, can the real Morgan stand up please.
Cousins, poor bugger annexed out on the wing, played better in the middle, but we all knew that. Did OK
Kashi, tried to hold the team together. did OK
Ba, JJ in for next game please (if he keeps Cousins wide). he was pelt.
JBG, CP had two players on him every time he got the ball, became anonymous.
Big Mak, Did what he had to do, plus was stretching his hammy several times.
TWWW - Park footballer last night, after several attempts to beat every 'Udders player around him I found myself yelling 'pass the fucking ball you fucking prick' but he still didn't.
New Fella, tried and had Churches new Puma Spongy Boots on.
Berdych too lightweight. and positionally a little lost at times, not sure when to go forward.
We will get murdered by the Stripey twats anyone want to buy my ticket.
We had a couple of good chances in the 2nd half but we didn't take them. Ditto with them as well to be fair.
It was a frustrating performance but we did create some opportunities and a little more composure in front of goal could have made a huge difference to the outcome.
I think a lot of our games will be very tight this season, we have started really well, but unless we can maintain that earlier high level of performance I think these sort of games will be pretty close affairs, going either way.
Watt had a poor game last night, and was guilty of trying to do too much on his own. However, I remember an incident in the 1st half when he got the ball and had 3 players on him pretty much straight away. It's too many.
CP had obviously told them to get tight on him, and however good he is at dribbling and running with the ball, he's not Messi. I believe a few of the times he ran into trouble was also down to the fact he had no outlet. As he and JBG are our most creative players, it must be frustrating for them if they have the ball and see a lack of movement anywhere else.
Unfortunately they're both going to be marked well for the remainder of this season, so we have to find a way to overcome that. Despite both having mediocre games in the last 2 matches, I'm confident they both have the talent to start hurting teams again, but we need others to help give them the space to do damage
Right from the off Huddersfield were in our faces and we got bullied all over the pitch..How many more times is Cousins going to be played out on the left before Luzon works out he can't play there?
Stinkers from most of the team but hay ho such is life.Back to business on Saturday at Blackburn.
Please don't play like that against Palarse or we'll get a proper hammering.
COYR!