The ref was indeed poor, but even good refs will miss things and if you don’t know whose head it came off of, what other option do you havebut to guess? It was unprofessional of our players not to focus on defending the corner. It was a corner after all and not a penalty. Solly made a great tackle and got the ball, but if he swore at an official you can’t really moan too much.
In defence of Rotherham, they did what they had to do to get something form the game. I would have done the same. Yes, the ref could have been more assertive – but it is a contention of mine and has been for some time, that the best refs played the game to a certain level and understand things that the refs that didn’t don’t. I can spot them a mile off and this ref is a not played the game merchant. Don’t think we should put all the blame on him for the result though.
My son qualified as a ref at the end of last season, and was told to give up playing football if he wanted to officiate on a Sunday. That is your problem with refs and why they produce these crap ones. They have no insight as to the importance of understanding the game at the player's level. They are so smug when they meet each other about pro footballers not knowing the laws of the game etc... but they don't realise what their deficiencies are. There are of course some excellent refs, but Stroud is not one of them and maybe when it is clear they are not up to it, they should be removed sooner. If he isn't fit for the Premiership - what makes him fit for the Championship?
I'm not saying he has no choice but to guess, but the reaction from the crowd was a very clear indicator that he'd got this one wrong. many decisions are opposed by the crowd, but hardly ever receive the of uproar as this decision did. as soon as he gave it he should have noted his mistake, and then attempted to find anything wrong he could with the resulting corner to give play back to Charlton, to correct his mistake. The attempted handball gave him that opportunity before the goal went in, and he chose to ignore it.
At the end of the day it's only a bit of harmless banter.
Hmm. Accusing someone of accepting bribes on a public forum sounds more like slander than harmless banter to me.
Shame the ref was poor but we didn't draw the game because of poor refereeing. Rotherham, after 5 games are the worst team in the division. We drew because we did not do enough to beat them. Simple.
The ref was indeed poor, but even good refs will miss things and if you don’t know whose head it came off of, what other option do you havebut to guess? It was unprofessional of our players not to focus on defending the corner. It was a corner after all and not a penalty. Solly made a great tackle and got the ball, but if he swore at an official you can’t really moan too much.
In defence of Rotherham, they did what they had to do to get something form the game. I would have done the same. Yes, the ref could have been more assertive – but it is a contention of mine and has been for some time, that the best refs played the game to a certain level and understand things that the refs that didn’t don’t. I can spot them a mile off and this ref is a not played the game merchant. Don’t think we should put all the blame on him for the result though.
My son qualified as a ref at the end of last season, and was told to give up playing football if he wanted to officiate on a Sunday. That is your problem with refs and why they produce these crap ones. They have no insight as to the importance of understanding the game at the player's level. They are so smug when they meet each other about pro footballers not knowing the laws of the game etc... but they don't realise what their deficiencies are. There are of course some excellent refs, but Stroud is not one of them and maybe when it is clear they are not up to it, they should be removed sooner. If he isn't fit for the Premiership - what makes him fit for the Championship?
I'm not saying he has no choice but to guess, but the reaction from the crowd was a very clear indicator that he'd got this one wrong. many decisions are opposed by the crowd, but hardly ever receive the of uproar as this decision did. as soon as he gave it he should have noted his mistake, and then attempted to find anything wrong he could with the resulting corner to give play back to Charlton, to correct his mistake. The attempted handball gave him that opportunity before the goal went in, and he chose to ignore it.
I'm sure some refs do try to even up decisions they get wrong, but that in itself is unprofessional. And the crowd does influence which is why home teams generally get a better deal - but that is not right either.
I think the lino reported Solly for foul and abusive language, because Solly gave him a right mouthful once he was flagged. There was a little gap for the conversation between lino and ref, then the yellow card came out.
I thought that was the first incident, when the lino gave the free kick for Solly's clean tackle - so Solly went over and told him what he thought. The second shoulder to shoulder incident was when he got booked and I thought that was for throwing the ball down.
Could be wrong though. I seem to forget more than I remember these days.
The ref was indeed poor, but even good refs will miss things and if you don’t know whose head it came off of, what other option do you havebut to guess? It was unprofessional of our players not to focus on defending the corner. It was a corner after all and not a penalty. Solly made a great tackle and got the ball, but if he swore at an official you can’t really moan too much.
In defence of Rotherham, they did what they had to do to get something form the game. I would have done the same. Yes, the ref could have been more assertive – but it is a contention of mine and has been for some time, that the best refs played the game to a certain level and understand things that the refs that didn’t don’t. I can spot them a mile off and this ref is a not played the game merchant. Don’t think we should put all the blame on him for the result though.
My son qualified as a ref at the end of last season, and was told to give up playing football if he wanted to officiate on a Sunday. That is your problem with refs and why they produce these crap ones. They have no insight as to the importance of understanding the game at the player's level. They are so smug when they meet each other about pro footballers not knowing the laws of the game etc... but they don't realise what their deficiencies are. There are of course some excellent refs, but Stroud is not one of them and maybe when it is clear they are not up to it, they should be removed sooner. If he isn't fit for the Premiership - what makes him fit for the Championship?
I'm not saying he has no choice but to guess, but the reaction from the crowd was a very clear indicator that he'd got this one wrong. many decisions are opposed by the crowd, but hardly ever receive the of uproar as this decision did. as soon as he gave it he should have noted his mistake, and then attempted to find anything wrong he could with the resulting corner to give play back to Charlton, to correct his mistake. The attempted handball gave him that opportunity before the goal went in, and he chose to ignore it.
I'm sure some refs do try to even up decisions they get wrong, but that in itself is unprofessional. And the crowd does influence which is why home teams generally get a better deal - but that is not right either.
As unprofessional as giving a decision the wrong way? If anything I would say it is more professional. He's not going back on his original decision to make him seem weak or influenced by the crowd, nor is he completely ignoring his mistake.
And certainly the crowd have an influence, of which wasn't in evidence this weekend at all, but they can also be used as an indicator. that's not to say a referee should give favourably for the crowd, but to help in certain situations. for example an off the ball scuffle will often cause the crowd to make noise alerting the referee's attention to what is happening, or in this instance, the genuine uproar he was met with at a decision he was unsure of making.
I think it was more the reaction of both sets of players that should have alerted him to the fact he was wrong. The Rotherham players were making their way out of the penalty area in anticipation of a goal kick not to mention the reaction of our players.
The ref was indeed poor, but even good refs will miss things and if you don’t know whose head it came off of, what other option do you havebut to guess? It was unprofessional of our players not to focus on defending the corner. It was a corner after all and not a penalty. Solly made a great tackle and got the ball, but if he swore at an official you can’t really moan too much.
In defence of Rotherham, they did what they had to do to get something form the game. I would have done the same. Yes, the ref could have been more assertive – but it is a contention of mine and has been for some time, that the best refs played the game to a certain level and understand things that the refs that didn’t don’t. I can spot them a mile off and this ref is a not played the game merchant. Don’t think we should put all the blame on him for the result though.
My son qualified as a ref at the end of last season, and was told to give up playing football if he wanted to officiate on a Sunday. That is your problem with refs and why they produce these crap ones. They have no insight as to the importance of understanding the game at the player's level. They are so smug when they meet each other about pro footballers not knowing the laws of the game etc... but they don't realise what their deficiencies are. There are of course some excellent refs, but Stroud is not one of them and maybe when it is clear they are not up to it, they should be removed sooner. If he isn't fit for the Premiership - what makes him fit for the Championship?
I'm not saying he has no choice but to guess, but the reaction from the crowd was a very clear indicator that he'd got this one wrong. many decisions are opposed by the crowd, but hardly ever receive the of uproar as this decision did. as soon as he gave it he should have noted his mistake, and then attempted to find anything wrong he could with the resulting corner to give play back to Charlton, to correct his mistake. The attempted handball gave him that opportunity before the goal went in, and he chose to ignore it.
I'm sure some refs do try to even up decisions they get wrong, but that in itself is unprofessional. And the crowd does influence which is why home teams generally get a better deal - but that is not right either.
As unprofessional as giving a decision the wrong way? If anything I would say it is more professional. He's not going back on his original decision to make him seem weak or influenced by the crowd, nor is he completely ignoring his mistake.
And certainly the crowd have an influence, of which wasn't in evidence this weekend at all, but they can also be used as an indicator. that's not to say a referee should give favourably for the crowd, but to help in certain situations. for example an off the ball scuffle will often cause the crowd to make noise alerting the referee's attention to what is happening, or in this instance, the genuine uproar he was met with at a decision he was unsure of making.
My theory on crowd influence is that refs do try to stand up to crowds as it makes them look strong. But there are crowds they are just too intimidated by which makes it all a bit ridiculous. I think we have had more than our fair share of non homer refs at the Valley in recent years as the place isn’t quite what it was for intimidation. I recall Fergie saying in our premiership days that it was one of the hardest places to come because of the atmosphere. It is poor of a ref if he tries to show strength by making decisions against the home side, but I’m sure it happens – just from watching games. I think there is another example where most football fans don’t realise the whole of the ball has to cross the line for the ball to be out of play. So if most of the ball is out of play a lot of ref’s assistants give it out because they get less stick from the crowd.
But aside from a ref’s inability to do his job, which we can agree on, if he doesn’t see something he needs to call it one way or another. If your assistant says corner, you have to go with him. Then you probably work out you have made an error by the response you get which is disproportionate to what you would expect, but you absolutely can’t let that change anything after the decision has been made. I would imagine as many as 10% of decisions refs are not sure about – they have to call it one way or another. That is why players call for everything – even if it is ridiculous as if the ref is unsure, the shout might influence.
On a side note it wasnt just us who had a bad decision go against us this Weekend.
Did anyone see the Blackburn goal that would have made it 2-2 against Fulham yesterday... Ball hit Grant Hanley in the chest and ball was clearly across the line (as the Fulham Defender was half way in the goal before hooking it out)
I would recommend that you take up refereeing if you saw in real time that it was clearly crossed the line !!
I'm sure some refs do try to even up decisions they get wrong, but that in itself is unprofessional. And the crowd does influence which is why home teams generally get a better deal - but that is not right either.
Supportive evidence please to back up your "I am sure" statement
I'll give one example - do you recall the merchandise on the pitch incident a few years back? Where there was outrage when Steve Brown was sent off- actually fairly. It was a toxic atmosphere at the Valley and the game had to be delayed to pick all the brochures up. I said to my brother at the time - he is going to send one of thier's off the first opportunity he gets and it happened - It might have been Robbie Savage - not 100% - but it was a harsh sending off.
It got to a stage once a few years ago where I would predict to my brother at games when a soft free kick was about to go our way when a corner had been given wrongly and 9 times out of 10 I seemed to be right.
I even mentioned this on commentary just before the corner came over on Saturday! Sadly this was that one time.....
Yes, I seem to read the ref and what he is going to do too. Ref's like to think they aren't human but they are with all the weakness that go with it. Of course there are lot's of excellent refs - they are the ones we don't tend to talk about unfortunately.
I'll give one example - do you recall the merchandise on the pitch incident a few years back? Where there was outrage when Steve Brown was sent off- actually fairly. It was a toxic atmosphere at the Valley and the game had to be delayed to pick all the brochures up. I said to my brother at the time - he is going to send one of thier's off the first opportunity he gets and it happened - It might have been Robbie Savage - not 100% - but it was a harsh sending off.
Are you suggesting refs don't get intimidated?
Mike Dean was in charge that day and evened the game up with the soft dismissal of Junior Lewis. 10 v 10 we win 2 nil.
Peter Taylor is sacked 2 days later as Leicester manager.
It got to a stage once a few years ago where I would predict to my brother at games when a soft free kick was about to go our way when a corner had been given wrongly and 9 times out of 10 I seemed to be right.
I even mentioned this on commentary just before the corner came over on Saturday! Sadly this was that one time.....
Don't tempt fate tomorrow night please Louis just in case
I'll give one example - do you recall the merchandise on the pitch incident a few years back? Where there was outrage when Steve Brown was sent off- actually fairly. It was a toxic atmosphere at the Valley and the game had to be delayed to pick all the brochures up. I said to my brother at the time - he is going to send one of thier's off the first opportunity he gets and it happened - It might have been Robbie Savage - not 100% - but it was a harsh sending off.
Are you suggesting refs don't get intimidated?
Mike Dean was in charge that day and evened the game up with the soft dismissal of Junior Lewis. 10 v 10 we win 2 nil.
Peter Taylor is sacked 2 days later as Leicester manager.
Thanks - and I doubt I was the only one expecting that to happen. Many examples- just that was a good one. And Mike Dean reffed at the top level too.
How many times do refs give the wrong decision ie a corner when it should be a goal kick, then give a free kick for some foul as the corner comes in that never happened.
At the end of the day it's only a bit of harmless banter.
Hmm. Accusing someone of accepting bribes on a public forum sounds more like slander than harmless banter to me.
Shame the ref was poor but we didn't draw the game because of poor refereeing. Rotherham, after 5 games are the worst team in the division. We drew because we did not do enough to beat them. Simple.
I did not write any word of that article.
Never said you did. Just that to me it is slander/libellous against two people, not 'harmless banter'.
At the end of the day it's only a bit of harmless banter.
Hmm. Accusing someone of accepting bribes on a public forum sounds more like slander than harmless banter to me.
Shame the ref was poor but we didn't draw the game because of poor refereeing. Rotherham, after 5 games are the worst team in the division. We drew because we did not do enough to beat them. Simple.
I did not write any word of that article.
Never said you did. Just that to me it is slander/libellous against two people, not 'harmless banter'.
I've just seen it again and those comments have been deleted.
Just watched the highlights and I see Stroud was making the same errors on Saturday as he did against Rotherham. Giving corners against us when they are the most clearest of goal kicks you will ever see. Totally incompetent
Comments
I remember for just under a year, of being a man trapped in a woman's body ?
but then i was born and i've been fine every since
Could be wrong though. I seem to forget more than I remember these days.
And certainly the crowd have an influence, of which wasn't in evidence this weekend at all, but they can also be used as an indicator. that's not to say a referee should give favourably for the crowd, but to help in certain situations. for example an off the ball scuffle will often cause the crowd to make noise alerting the referee's attention to what is happening, or in this instance, the genuine uproar he was met with at a decision he was unsure of making.
But aside from a ref’s inability to do his job, which we can agree on, if he doesn’t see something he needs to call it one way or another. If your assistant says corner, you have to go with him. Then you probably work out you have made an error by the response you get which is disproportionate to what you would expect, but you absolutely can’t let that change anything after the decision has been made. I would imagine as many as 10% of decisions refs are not sure about – they have to call it one way or another. That is why players call for everything – even if it is ridiculous as if the ref is unsure, the shout might influence.
I'm sure some refs do try to even up decisions they get wrong, but that in itself is unprofessional. And the crowd does influence which is why home teams generally get a better deal - but that is not right either.
Supportive evidence please to back up your "I am sure" statement
Are you suggesting refs don't get intimidated?
I even mentioned this on commentary just before the corner came over on Saturday! Sadly this was that one time.....
Peter Taylor is sacked 2 days later as Leicester manager.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11714/10032856/watch-hull-citys-chuba-akpom-accidentally-injures-referee
Funnily enough the only part I saw of that game was where he gave a goal kick that should have been an obvious corner.