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Is this the most intelligent Charlton side we have seen

I can't help thinking that Guy has decided that he needs players to have a footballing brain make it with us.

It would certainly explain why Bikey is not in the team in favour of the Diarra, who we all know is intelligent, and Bauer who is an absolute steal.

Others like Kashi and Ba are underrated in this respect too.

Jbg has a superb footballing brain and Big Mak is more intelligent than most gave him credit for.

Seems we are stepping away from the idea that players must be superb athletes and the thinking part being secondary.

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Comments

  • Never going to make it as a pro if your not a fine athlete and never make it above league one if you don't have a football brain to go with it.
  • I'm not really sure what's meant by intelligence in the context of football. I guess that you don't mean academic intelligence; if so I believe that the 2012 promotion winning side was probably more qualified (to do other things) than any other team we've had and the gaffer was held in high esteem by the local University. Of course, former manager Iain Dowie was famous for being a rocket surgeon so you have expected some intelligence there. It didn't help our survival prospects though.

    It would be interesting to define what is meant by intelligence in context of football. It seems to me that it is most commonly associated with anticipation and decision making. People talk about players "reading the game". But there are a whole number of things to this, accurately estimating where (or where not) the ball is likely to go, second-guessing what your opponents might do in any given circumstance, prioritising the biggest threats (for defenders), seeking out the best opportunities (for forwards), being aware of your colleagues' capabilities, thinking about how to achieve the same outcomes whilst expending less energy, having an awareness of the rules of the game, awareness of time and circumstances, awareness of psychological factors and knowing how to lift your own and others' spirits, understanding different strategies and knowing which tactics are more likely to be effective in any particular situation. That's quite a few things off the top of my head and I am sure that there are many other things that could be described as intelligence in the context of the game.

    If these are the sorts of things you have in mind then it's difficult to disagree that they are important. I think though that just as in wider life the concept of general intelligence has largely given way to specific and multiple intelligences it may be useful to think like this for football. My other concern with the use of intelligence as a term is that it implies some sort of conscious cognitive effort. I'm not sure it is always like this. There's quite a bit of evidence that the better players (at least some of the really gifted ones) don't consciously think through what they are doing whilst playing, instead they seem to have an innate sense of what to do at any given time. I'm not sure if this sort of 'intelligence' that you have in mind. Are we looking for players that can think things through, players that have some sort of innate skill that is beyond the rest of us or some mixture of the two?
  • edited August 2015
    So not only do we have a minimum height requirement we now want to sit our potential signings down to a I.Q. test as well, we will never sign anyone. Poor Gazza wouldn't have had a chance getting in our team.
  • How intelligent is the team?

    Starting 11: Bauer, Diarra, JBG, Ba, Kashi, Bergdich, Caballos, Makienok.

    English is there 2nd language.

    Hands up all fans that are bilingual?
  • Ich bin ein Berliner
  • Sure swisdom is not talking about IQ but rather players who are intelligent with the football , positioning and receiving instructions.
  • edited August 2015
    An Ex pro on one of the matches over the weekend, said the difference between
    a good player and a great player is football intelligence.
    That's why Harriott who gave 100% when he came on, will never quite make it because his decision making hasn't improved since he was 17.
    KAG who has the same problem, has only just started so there is hope that he will learn quickly and make the step up.

    It's when they step across the white line that we need them to switch on.
    So far So Good.
  • Can they do this sum:

    46 x 2 =

    Most important sum of all. The 2 points per game target.
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  • If we sign Jermaine Pennant you can kiss that theory goodbye

    Have you seen his misses? Can't be that dumb
  • An improved football brain all comes from working harder and being confident in what you are doing.

    There are of course naturally gifted and intelligent players but tbf you just need to be 100% dedicated and read the game which isn't exactly rocket science.

    Relies heavily on motivation, confidence, fitness and it would help if your not a zombie.
  • How intelligent is the team?

    Starting 11: Bauer, Diarra, JBG, Ba, Kashi, Bergdich, Caballos, Makienok.

    English is there 2nd language.

    Hands up all fans that are bilingual?

    I got interrupted when I started the thread so couldn't really go into full detail but what you say abovee is a fine example of what I mean.

    You're right @Stig I'm not referring to academic excellence - but more "nowse" (no idea if that's how it's spelled.

    Diarra would be the first to acknowledge he is not the quickest in the world but he is intelligent tenough to know where to stand to second guess or just use his experience.

    Bauer is an interesting one. The first time I saw him I said "he's a footballer". He's not just an athlete - he's smart with it. A couple of times I've seen him in a tricky position and he's just put his foot through it rather than try anything daft.

    JBG has a super impressive brain. Him in full flight is awesome to watch - he hunches himself and sprints into intelligent positions. He knows where to put the ball to make it difficult to defend and is just begging for a poacher to read some of his intentions.

    Jacko - while he is not playing is someone who really understands the game. Moreso given his lack of pace in a game all about speed these days. It's testament to his savvy that he is still held in such high regard.

    I guess the important thing is decision making. It's easy to do it from the stands because of your vantage point but the players who impress are the ones who see the passes and opportunities as though they were sat up in the stands.

    Of recent times only Yann and Andy Reid have, for me, had that X factor - to a lesser extent maybe Hamer with his volleyed delivery over to the right wing. He knew it could be a weapon, must have practiced over and over and finally perfected it (sadly other aspects of his game were'nt as sharp)

    Compare that with someone like Callum Harriot - strong and athletic but his decision making is shocking. Wiggins was a great player at times and fine athlete but made some poor decisions when under pressure. Morrison never struck me as the sharpest tool - lovely bloke, good defender but easy to fluster and to make him panic.

    I don't know - I am just enjoying being an Addick at the moment. Energetic and bonkers manager aligned with some exceptional and interesting players make for good times in my opinion. Honestly didn't think having this many foreigners could make me feel we have our Charlton back but the endeavour, effort, camaraderie etc I am seeing at the moment is fantastic and long may it continue.


  • Maybe it'll be a University of Greenwich attempt to win University Challenge... Keep watching as we'll see Kashi / Bauer / Makienok / Ba on the next series
  • Swisdom said:

    I can't help thinking that Guy has decided that he needs players to have a footballing brain make it with us.

    It would certainly explain why Bikey is not in the team in favour of the Diarra, who we all know is intelligent, and Bauer who is an absolute steal.

    Others like Kashi and Ba are underrated in this respect too.

    Jbg has a superb footballing brain and Big Mak is more intelligent than most gave him credit for.

    Seems we are stepping away from the idea that players must be superb athletes and the thinking part being secondary.

    I agree that they seem to have football brains. But I don't agree, that we are stepping away, from our players needing to be superb athletes.

    The biggest factor, in the success of our first 4 games, was built around our superb fitness, willingness to chase and block everything and close down the opposition. We were even were at full throttle in 90F heat. Amazing fitness.

    This plus Luzon's positive attitude.
  • This is really easy, be honest with yourself and state how quickly you could do it (without giving the answer?)
    image
  • If you can answer within three seconds, you can play for Guy Luzon.
  • 1.7 because i'm a slow reader.
  • Football intelligence can come from experience. Older CBs can use their anticipation to snuff out danger, instead of having to use pace.

    It is also instinctive though. Some young players just seem to naturally have this, a natural instinct where to run, who to pass too. The young Wayne Rooney for example stood out for this, whereas someone like Lloyd Sam to me consistently made the wrong decisions.
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  • edited August 2015
    seth plum said:

    This is really easy, be honest with yourself and state how quickly you could do it (without giving the answer?)
    image

    Got it in about 20 seconds
  • seth plum said:

    This is really easy, be honest with yourself and state how quickly you could do it (without giving the answer?)
    image

    Unless I've missed something if it is Mary's father then surely the fifth daughter is Mary so none of the answers given are correct?
  • Dave2l said:

    If we sign Jermaine Pennant you can kiss that theory goodbye

    Have you seen his misses? Can't be that dumb
    googled Pennant misses and got a YouTube of him shooting high and wide 500 times.
  • seth plum said:

    This is really easy, be honest with yourself and state how quickly you could do it (without giving the answer?)
    image

    Unless I've missed something if it is Mary's father then surely the fifth daughter is Mary so none of the answers given are correct?
    Yes. And the question does not suggest that the choices listed ought to be an answer.

  • edited August 2015
    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    This is really easy, be honest with yourself and state how quickly you could do it (without giving the answer?)
    image

    Unless I've missed something if it is Mary's father then surely the fifth daughter is Mary so none of the answers given are correct?
    Yes. And the question does not suggest that the choices listed ought to be an answer.

    image
  • Stig said:

    I'm not really sure what's meant by intelligence in the context of football. I guess that you don't mean academic intelligence; if so I believe that the 2012 promotion winning side was probably more qualified (to do other things) than any other team we've had and the gaffer was held in high esteem by the local University. Of course, former manager Iain Dowie was famous for being a rocket surgeon so you have expected some intelligence there. It didn't help our survival prospects though.

    It would be interesting to define what is meant by intelligence in context of football. It seems to me that it is most commonly associated with anticipation and decision making. People talk about players "reading the game". But there are a whole number of things to this, accurately estimating where (or where not) the ball is likely to go, second-guessing what your opponents might do in any given circumstance, prioritising the biggest threats (for defenders), seeking out the best opportunities (for forwards), being aware of your colleagues' capabilities, thinking about how to achieve the same outcomes whilst expending less energy, having an awareness of the rules of the game, awareness of time and circumstances, awareness of psychological factors and knowing how to lift your own and others' spirits, understanding different strategies and knowing which tactics are more likely to be effective in any particular situation. That's quite a few things off the top of my head and I am sure that there are many other things that could be described as intelligence in the context of the game.

    If these are the sorts of things you have in mind then it's difficult to disagree that they are important. I think though that just as in wider life the concept of general intelligence has largely given way to specific and multiple intelligences it may be useful to think like this for football. My other concern with the use of intelligence as a term is that it implies some sort of conscious cognitive effort. I'm not sure it is always like this. There's quite a bit of evidence that the better players (at least some of the really gifted ones) don't consciously think through what they are doing whilst playing, instead they seem to have an innate sense of what to do at any given time. I'm not sure if this sort of 'intelligence' that you have in mind. Are we looking for players that can think things through, players that have some sort of innate skill that is beyond the rest of us or some mixture of the two?

    I find the whole 'football intelligence' thing fascinating. From experience of coaching (for a short time) 10 year olds, I think its a spectrum and players fit into various categories. One kid on my team is a different class to the others - I actually asked him the other day what he thinks before making an inch perfect pass or reading what the opposition might do - his response was 'I don't think coach, it just happens'! On top of that, he's very analytical and will ask me when he looses the ball - 'how do I make sure that doesn't happen again, would it be better if I did xyz'. So I guess he's the perfect combination of natural, innate intelligence and a willingness to deliberately analyse every aspect of the game.
    Many of the rest seem to be able to learn the analytics (to varying degrees) if they are constantly reminded. Others just don't engage their brain at all and rely on pure athleticism. It's really interesting to watch and if I stay in Canada long enough, will be keen to see how the different traits develop as they get older.
  • seth plum said:

    This is really easy, be honest with yourself and state how quickly you could do it (without giving the answer?)
    image

    Unless I've missed something if it is Mary's father then surely the fifth daughter is Mary so none of the answers given are correct?
    Yes and it's fourth.
  • Ich bin ein Berliner

    Watt a doughnut :wink:

  • English is there 2nd language.

    Hands up all fans that are bilingual?

    Quality :wink:
  • How intelligent is the team?

    Starting 11: Bauer, Diarra, JBG, Ba, Kashi, Bergdich, Caballos, Makienok.

    English is there 2nd language.

    Hands up all fans that are bilingual?

    I'm bisatchel... I've no problems with saying that I love bags
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