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Fantastic win for 4th-tier CZ Jena against Hamburg !!



  • The Bundesliga itself starts next weekend but Bundesliga 2 has already played two rounds and FCC have played 4 (won 4) in their league. Perhaps the Cup 1st round something of a psf for the big boys but still seems that the Cup and humbler opponents are treated with rather more respect than here.
  • Have they started redeveloping part of the ground yet? I think it's due to be one of the curves.

    It would appear RD will be a major beneficiary (the plan being similar to the STVV model), but something like 80% of the money is coming from the state and municipal authorities.

    Yes, the curve where the ultras gather. They are very pissed off about it.
    I think we need to find out about the exact deal up there. We should bear in mind that he only has 49% of the overall club, but he might still have done a deal where, e.g. he (rather than FCC) gets most of the revenue from the hotel that I think is going to be built there. Which might be understandable if he has put up most of the capital, but less so if the German State has.

    Ujpest are also developing their ground, and have moved out while it is being done.

    Project for the autumn to reach out to fan groups there. Jena is an easy drive for me. It would be good to share authoritative information on these projects on CL, maybe needs a separate thread.
    Would be great to investigate some joint action, including with Standard Liege fans who I'm sure must have some good intel.

  • I think he only gets 49% of the votes, but owns 90%+ of the shares in the football club company (under the 50% + 1 rule).
  • edited August 2016

    I think he only gets 49% of the votes, but owns 90%+ of the shares in the football club company (under the 50% + 1 rule).

    That is what Simon Matthews ( the same @simonmatthews who posts on here) wrote in his excellent VOTV article.

    But I am not sure it isn't a slightly misleading way to look at it. I have been trying to understand more about 50+1 because @Stu_of_Kunming asked a very reasonable question about how it works.

    So here is how I understand it at present. Feel free, anyone, to correct me.

    49% of a German club can be converted to limited company status (GmbH). Private investors can invest into that, which is what RD has done in Jena. Not all clubs have even allowed for this conversion. When we visited Jena, @GlassHalfFull and I were told, by Andreas the marketing manager of FCC, that RD had first planned to buy into Rot Weiss Erfurt, as that is where he has his factories, and currently it's a bigger club (though as Andreas was at pains to point out, with none of FCC's pedigree). But RwE doesn't have the 49% hived off, so he simply could not buy in.

    So I presume that RD has 95% of the GmbH. That means he cannot impose the network nonsense on the club. However I suppose that if he has pumped equity ( or loans) into the GmbH, promising revenue from commercial development which goes into the playing side, then he has a big hold over them.

    However if he pulled out, they would not go bust. The losses seem to be insulated to within the 49%.

    Overall, I think that is why German clubs don't get into the difficulties we have seen in England. That said, a lot of us have read that Dortmund were in real trouble some 10-15 years ago, and TSV Munich no longer own a half share of the Allianz because they got into financial shit, and Bayern bailed them out by buying their share. Which makes Bayern stronger, but not by doing anything wrong. I would still like to understand how 50+1 protected those clubs at the time of crisis.

  • @PragueAddick -

    If you haven't seen this, run it through Google translate as necessary. It's 5 days old and summarises several useful bits of news about affairs at FCC.

    Among other things, it says:

    FCC have made a fine start to the season, winning 5 of 5.

    However (and I've seen other reports about this), RD is at loggerheads with the guys who have the 50% + 1 voting rights and caused great offence recently with another of his open letters accusing them of obstructing him.

    RD owns 95% of shares in the football gmbh, although only 50% - 1 of voting rights.

    Since RD is threatening to withdraw yet again if he does not get his way in forthcoming elections for the board of the tier where the 50% +1 rule applies, which may be a tier above the gmbh, the local mayor is questioning the viability of the stadium redevelopment. I read a comment on this, from a fan who seemed to have reasonable access to money figures about the club, to the effect that the redevelopment will only work financially if FCC get up to tier 2. I think that's what the mayor is saying: we won't get into tier 2 without RD (haha), so the city doesn't want to invest heavily, unless RD is given his way.

  • Cheers @MountsfieldPark. I had heard something about this from other sources, as have other CARD people, although not this level of detail about the nature of the dispute. It seems that a key meeting of the club has been postponed until October because of this dispute.

    It just seems that everywhere, he somehow makes a mess of things, even where, as in Jena, it started off with at least some people thinking his plans could be good for their club.
  • edited September 2016
    Well, it seems to me to go right back to that banner that was shown on CL back in 2014(?), where some of the "hardcore" fans were saying we don't want you building up the club's debt, in order to enable a surge up to tier 2. His plans for a STVV-style development to rake in money from non-football operations seem to depend for their success on promotion. It does look now like he's going to force his opponents on the board out, just as he forced the CEO out earlier this year. He'll keep on with the back me or I quit, taking my loans with me, until he gets a compliant 50% +1 vote. Ultimately, I don't see how they can stop him, because it will be the death of FCC, if he doesn't get his way.

    So there are elements of his relationship with us and elements of STVV in the situation, although it's being played out to German rules, of course. Our stake in the club has only very limited legal/regulatory basis (ACV, the new dialogue rules) in comparison with the German rules, but it seems he is turning into one of those German club investors (cf Leipzig) who is trying to bully the 50% +1 system into letting him do what he wants.

  • I commented briefly about this on this season's Alcorcon thread.

    Reference to FCC's website news section ("Aktuelles") will produce items on 13th Sep (postponement of the members' meeting and move to a bigger venue); 31st Aug (the club president's baffled reaction to RD's accusations and RD's possible attempt to influence the upcoming club elections, and 25th Aug (RD's public letter). All can find a baisc translation through Google Translate.

    Uncomfortable reading.
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