Airlines deliberately overbooking flights . Surely it should be illegal ?

Covered End

I think it's disgraceful, that this is not made illegal.

It's no different to buying a ticket for Euro 2016, FA Cup Final a gig or anything & then being refused entry.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/article/easyjet-overbooking-thousands-of-peak-season-flights-and-flouting-eu-rules-on-offloaded-passengers/ar-AAdkCEW

se9addick

Not sure if it's the same here but once we were coming home from Vegas and they'd overbooked our flight, got offered a flight the next day, hotel room for the night and $1,000 each.

DaveMehmet

3 of us volunteered to get a later flight to Warsaw when we flew out for an England game in 91. Arrived about 3 hours later, via Frankfurt and they refunded the cost of the flight in cash (most of which we spent in the bar)

Rizzo

It's been going on for many, many years and is done by pretty much every airline. The simple fact is that there's a fairly reliable percentage of tickets that are sold and not used. The airline has the option to either fly with empty seats or oversell and have a full plane. On the very rare occasions when the flight subsequently is overbooked the airlines ask for volunteers to be bumped to the next flight and usually offer a fairly attractive deal to do so, along the lines of what DaveMehmet received. It's honestly not a big issue - and this is coming from someone who has dealt with the airlines for a long time and utterly despises them!

That being said, Easyjet appear to be taking the piss but budget airlines seem to think they are a law unto themselves! When I was seeking compensation for delays caused by the volcanic ash a few years ago, the only airline that point blank refused to pay up was Ryanair.

Bangkokaddick

It's been common practice for years amongst what I'd call proper airlines and, yes, it sometimes backfires. They use historical data and know the no-show possibilities. Large hotels do the same, though for my little place in Phuket we never knowingly overbook! But I'm surprised that low-cost carriers also engage in this practice. For a start, fares are non-refundable so they make their money anyway, whether passengers show or not.

Making it illegal would increase fares for everyone and that's the downside. It does cost the airlines when they get it wrong, though it sounds like Easyjet make up their own rules!

swords_alive

.

cafcfan

Covered End said:

I think it's disgraceful, that this is not made illegal.

It's no different to buying a ticket for Euro 2016, FA Cup Final a gig or anything & then being refused entry.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/article/easyjet-overbooking-thousands-of-peak-season-flights-and-flouting-eu-rules-on-offloaded-passengers/ar-AAdkCEW

Trouble is many, particularly business, travellers like a fully flexible ticket in case their arrangements change. Sometimes they book two seats on two flights and just get a refund for the one they don't use. ( I knew someone who regularly flew to the USA on a Sunday on a regular basis and then booked flights back for each day in the following week. So it didn't matter whether the contract negotiations lasted half a day or four days. Of course he only used one of them.) It goes wrong when everybody turns up. It could be stopped but then air fares for regular tourists would go up to compensate the airlines for the financial losses caused by the demise of the fully flexible fare.

Covered End

I'm surprised everyone is so agreeable to this.

I reckon Charlton should resell 25% of S/T holder seats, as that's about the no show rate

thai malaysia addick

It comes down to costs. If everyone was willing to pay more, it wouldn't happen. I suspect it happens on routes with high business traffic where businessmen don't know what day they need to travel. Flexible tickets, often used by businessmen, come at premium price effectively subsidising those with cheaper tickets. Having said that, I take about 75-100 flights per year and I have never not been allowed on a flight. I think I have been offered money not to fly on about 3 occasions ever and from memory these were all from USA.

Covered End

We were denied boarding last year from Mallorca. But there were about 40 passengers denied, so it was probably a fault, rather than overselling.

Thomas Cook still refused to pay up the £200 each & I ended up taking vouchers instead, as I couldn't be bothered to sue them again.

Valiantphil

A friend of mine works at LHR and said that the number of people who check-in and don't make it to the gate for the plane is unbelievable.

PragueAddick

Valiantphil said:

A friend of mine works at LHR and said that the number of people who check-in and don't make it to the gate for the plane is unbelievable.

They actually check in? I can imagine a lot of business types book flights and then don't show up cos their plans change or the meeting overruns. But actually checking in? Did he say why that happens?

Anyway @Covered End. you're probably familiar with most of this but it helped me recently when bloody Czech airlines "changed" our direct flight to Bordeaux to one connecting through CDG (which, of course, lost our luggage)

It's only applicable for the EU though, so make the most of it...

Dazzler21

PragueAddick said:

Valiantphil said:

A friend of mine works at LHR and said that the number of people who check-in and don't make it to the gate for the plane is unbelievable.

They actually check in? I can imagine a lot of business types book flights and then don't show up cos their plans change or the meeting overruns. But actually checking in? Did he say why that happens?

Anyway @Covered End. you're probably familiar with most of this but it helped me recently when bloody Czech airlines "changed" our direct flight to Bordeaux to one connecting through CDG (which, of course, lost our luggage)

It's only applicable for the EU though, so make the most of it...

probably online check in and home check in situations...

Covered End

Yes thanks Prague. I know it chapter & verse.

I threatened it all, but Thomas Cook still refused to pay up.

Like I say, I've successfully sued them before & couldn't be bothered again. So we went to Barcelona instead, partly on the vouchers.

Bermuda_red

Yes, for reasons stated above the flight v football ticket isn't a good analogy. That said, some clubs with permission of S/T holders re-sell seats. I believe Arsenal S/T holders got/maybe still do, credits against the price of next years S/T.

Jet Blue claim not to over sell their flights. One of the few. Never had a bad experience with them.

The announcement prior to boarding offering alternative travel/vouchers/airmiles/cash on a fully booked flight is now routine. I always do the 24 hr online check in to avoid any nasty situations at the airport.

PragueAddick

Milwall re-sell S/T seats without even asking permission. I remember a Millwall fan got quite upset about it

:-)

cafcfan

PragueAddick said:

Valiantphil said:

A friend of mine works at LHR and said that the number of people who check-in and don't make it to the gate for the plane is unbelievable.

They actually check in? I can imagine a lot of business types book flights and then don't show up cos their plans change or the meeting overruns. But actually checking in? Did he say why that happens?

Anyway @Covered End. you're probably familiar with most of this but it helped me recently when bloody Czech airlines "changed" our direct flight to Bordeaux to one connecting through CDG (which, of course, lost our luggage)

It's only applicable for the EU though, so make the most of it...

Not quite. It's a bit more than that:

"departing from any airport situated in the EU, or
arriving in the EU with an EU carrier or one from Iceland, Norway or Switzerland. "

So any airline leaving EU but only EU airlines on your return journey. Another reason not to use the poxy US carriers to get to the USA though.

stevexreeve

So I've just printed Easy Jet boarding passes with reserved seats.
Can they still bump me at the departure gate after I've passed through security?

Bermuda_red

Valiantphil said:

A friend of mine works at LHR and said that the number of people who check-in and don't make it to the gate for the plane is unbelievable.

Assume "check in" includes the online check in available from 24 hrs prior to departure? They would have printed boarding passes/assigned seats etc. I could understand peoples plans changing in that time.

Algarveaddick

I am a bit confused by those defending the policy. Unless I am misunderstanding completely, you book and pay for a seat, if you don't turn up you don't get any refund do you? So the airline has had all your money and now flies a bit lighter without you in that seat. They do not lose out in any way shape or form. Or have I got it all wrong?

stevexreeve

Algarveaddick said:

I am a bit confused by those defending the policy. Unless I am misunderstanding completely, you book and pay for a seat, if you don't turn up you don't get any refund do you? So the airline has had all your money and now flies a bit lighter without you in that seat. They do not lose out in any way shape or form. Or have I got it all wrong?

If you have a flexible ticket you can rebook on a later flight if you don't turn up.

So they fly with an empty seat but still have to find a seat for you on a later plane. Then you can cancel again...

Big William

Where they don't help themselves is the ridiculous price they charge for one way tickets. For transatlantic flights it can run into the 1000's so everybody buys a return which never gets used.

I had it once in Italy, I had to get home for an emergency, so I just went up to desk and asked for a ticket on the first flight to Heathrow. It was 100 quid return or 250 single. That I cannot rationalise!

rikofold

se9addick said:

Not sure if it's the same here but once we were coming home from Vegas and they'd overbooked our flight, got offered a flight the next day, hotel room for the night and $1,000 each.

I lost out on returning home from Riyadh, ended up with indirect flights via Portugal. Had £700 in my pocket within half hour of landing though.

@Algarveaddick, you're kind of assuming that everyone buys a fixed non-refundable ticket. Most airlines are packed with business travellers on flexible tickets. The risk is all theirs, except perhaps with non-refundable tickets, and if you hold a ticket they have to carry you. More to the point, how annoying would it be if you couldn't get a ticket for a flight that someone was unlikely to ever take but booked so they could just in case? Overbooking is generally good news for passengers, and it helps the airlines ensure flights are full - which is the most efficient way of carrying their passengers.

rikofold

Big William said:

Where they don't help themselves is the ridiculous price they charge for one way tickets. For transatlantic flights it can run into the 1000's so everybody buys a return which never gets used.

I had it once in Italy, I had to get home for an emergency, so I just went up to desk and asked for a ticket on the first flight to Heathrow. It was 100 quid return or 250 single. That I cannot rationalise!

It's because one-way flights are a pain in the proverbial for airlines because, well, most people go and come back at some point. Don't use your return and that's a seat they have to fill - and I imagine the market for one-way tickets is generally small.

I missed the outbound leg of a return flight from Riyadh to Jeddah once. I didn't realise that as I'd failed to make the first flight, they cancelled the return leg. Waiting for a standby flight at Saudi airports if you're not Saudi is a bleeding nightmare, never miss your flight. (They also once gave me a ticket for a standby flight that had already left, the bastards).

Algarveaddick

rikofold said:

se9addick said:

Not sure if it's the same here but once we were coming home from Vegas and they'd overbooked our flight, got offered a flight the next day, hotel room for the night and $1,000 each.

I lost out on returning home from Riyadh, ended up with indirect flights via Portugal. Had £700 in my pocket within half hour of landing though.

@Algarveaddick, you're kind of assuming that everyone buys a fixed non-refundable ticket. Most airlines are packed with business travellers on flexible tickets. The risk is all theirs, except perhaps with non-refundable tickets, and if you hold a ticket they have to carry you. More to the point, how annoying would it be if you couldn't get a ticket for a flight that someone was unlikely to ever take but booked so they could just in case? Overbooking is generally good news for passengers, and it helps the airlines ensure flights are full - which is the most efficient way of carrying their passengers.

Point taken, however the flights in question are holiday flights, I would bet that almost no-one on them is on business...

North Lower Neil

As long as they ask for and pay volunteers when overbooked, it's a good system.

I gather some of them aren't doing so.

PassItToLeaburn

Algarveaddick said:

I am a bit confused by those defending the policy. Unless I am misunderstanding completely, you book and pay for a seat, if you don't turn up you don't get any refund do you? So the airline has had all your money and now flies a bit lighter without you in that seat. They do not lose out in any way shape or form. Or have I got it all wrong?

I'd imagine that they have a target profit margin to make on each route so if they did stop over selling then all prices would probably increase.

The_President

got 600$ and a hotel for night and a guaranteed seat for next day when BA overbooked my daughter. All I had to do was convince my daughter that she could have an extra day off school !