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Boycott Germany

I see some of the more enterprising Eurofans have mounted a campaign to boycott Germany and their multinational corporations after Reichsfuhrer Merkel employed the biggest shafting Greece has recieved from the Teutons since 1941. To be honest, this was really the Germans practicing the same sort of 'look after number 1' type thinking that a lot of UK voters would like to see David Cameron do. I was never a believer in the single currency, as it seemed to be based on some wishy washy dream that we could be like the USA, disregarding the completely different historical evolution that gave rise to Europe on one side and the United States on the other. The whole thing seems to be geared to creating a central European powerhouse based around the Rhine, with a lot of smaller satélite helpers scattered around it, and having sat through some of the speeches in the European Parliament about not wanting to humilliate Greece, it seems a tad bizarre that they did just that.
Personally, I like Germany and have a lot of time for the Germans as a people, but this time, they seem to have moved mountains to forcé an antidemocratic bail out which will almost certainly not achieve economic stability in Greece, but will forcé continued unrest, poverty and internal strife. I studied Fine Art at university, and I'm sort of happy about it now, since financial studies at a high level often seem to come with some sort of lobotomy attached. I doubt I'll be boycotting Germany, as I simply don't see much of their produce in my house anyway, but I can understand the mentality that wants to.
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Comments

  • Maybe we should just bomb them then and put them out of their misery. There are a lot of greeks and most of them are decent and hard working. Ok, they have a crazy economy that needs fixing, but rather than kill them, shouldn't we try to help them fix it. It will yield more money back anyway!
  • So you're calling on us to boycott Germany and end your post saying you won't be though?!

    I'm not looking for an argument, but I'm curious as to what you would rather have seen happen?

    Merkel is a scary woman but, honestly, I can see why many in the UK would like to see a similar head of state here. Although in our case I think it's understandable because we are not in the currency and we shouldn't be throwing cash at bailing out economies that have fecked themselves up because of a culture that had a national sport of tax avoidance.

    We can't pay for our police force or hospitals, so why should we really be frittering money away just trying to save a failing experiment with regards to the Euro? Germany are in that zone, so naturally they have a vested interest which makes their attitude a bit different.

    The irony of saying Germany has a "look after number 1" attitude is that Greece bought some of these problems on to themselves and a lot of people were too busy "looking after number 1" to pay in to the system they were relying on.
  • edited July 2015
    Has anyone wondered that not all Germans support the bailout plan? There's little difference between this boycott and when shops had their kosher displays ransacked because of the Israeli actions in Palestine. If you want to voice your displeasure at the EU's actions, tell your MEP or vote to leave in 2017.
  • The Germans & the rest of the Euro zone are just papering over the cracks in hope something better will happen sometime down the line. It wont, Greece is bankrupt now and taking out payday loans from the EU is no solution.
    As for a German goods boycott, I'll boycott their wine, its foul.
  • The Germans & the rest of the Euro zone are just papering over the cracks in hope something better will happen sometime down the line. It wont, Greece is bankrupt now and taking out payday loans from the EU is no solution.
    As for a German goods boycott, I'll boycott their wine, its foul.

    I drink a fair amount of wine and have to say I have never, ever come across any German wine.
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  • shirty5 said:

    Good card players, the Germans.

    Only German women.....
  • sam3110 said:

    No ones fault but the Greeks themselves, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime as they say

    I am pretty sure you are a young adult Sam. May I ask whether you working and whether you are aware that the youth unemployment rate in Greece currently stands at between 50-60%, with 20% long term unemployed which suggests little in the way of life prospects at such a young age. These are young adults who can hardly be blamed for their countries mistakes of the past. Your comment feels a touch trite to me, I wonder how you would react/feel if you had, in fact grown up in Greece.

    Maybe you would be one of the hundreds of thousands of mainly professionals and graduates who are leaving the country of their homeland purely to find employment... an understandable and sensible option but not one that is going to improve the countries long term outlook.

    Greece is, for all intense purposes bankrupt already. The Euro with its pay day loans is simply throwing good money after bad and kicking the can down the road hoping for a miracle.

    I am no economics expert but my view is you are better to take a hit on debt relief now to try to see the country return to some form of self sufficiency than lend more money on top of the existing debt meaning Greece continues to implode into a depression worse than the 1930's US depression and, ultimately the lenders writing off more money at the end of it. Then everyone loses.
    My bold; payday loans are a brilliant way of putting it. However, how realistic is the chance of recovery when their debt is expected to reach 200% of their GDP in the near future and they're relying upon multiple bail-outs just to go manage in the short term? It doesn't actually make a great deal of sense to go throwing good money after bad, and I do get the impression that we're prolonging the inevitable here - let's punt some money over to the Greeks or we'll lose that money we've got tied up in them anyway.. it's completely lose/lose, but one option involves losing the bail-out money AS WELL as the existing debts.

    The actual austerity measures don't seem that bad at all on face value, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33535205, yet look at the reactions out there. I can understand a youth culture full of tension due to unemployment and lack of opportunities, but realistically speaking - these are measures that should've come in long ago and it's frustrating to think that being in the Eurozone is essentially permission to do as you like and rely upon other worried economies to bail your mess out.

    Why should we foot £700,000,000 of the bill when we're not even in the Eurozone, and we can't afford the "luxuries" (in quotes, because a functioning police service, a capable social care/welfare system and a competent health service are not luxuries for a first world country) that we require? We're making our own cuts, as I presume are most of the economies who are offering to provide this bail out package, including Germany, and it adds insult to injury to see protests over in Greece because they may just have to get their house in order. I think it's their reaction which is causing most of the bitterness.

    This situation has been a long time coming, it's not a surprise, yet they voted in a party who were opposed to austerity - a party opposed to cutting things that need to be cut and taking the countries finances seriously. With that kind of attitude you can understand the reluctance of some to put more money in to that system. Our economy is getting stronger, albeit still fragile apparently, but regardless of your own political views - we've voted for a party well known for cuts and making difficult decisions economically; yes we have protests and so on, but the mere fact that we have a majority government that support austerity measures shows that as a country we are largely supportive of fixing our economy. Unfortunately, there appears to be no such sentiment in Greece.

    There really does seem to be a lack of responsibility regarding this situation, and once again it's the countries who are 'switched on' and have some degree of financial stability (largely through making the decisions which the Greeks seem appalled by) paying for the mistakes of others. Those who are taking to the streets, throwing petrol bombs and attacking police.. what do they want? A nice cash lumpsum and a forgiving 'Use it wisely!'? This is the third bail-out, the third pay-day loan.

    To blame the Germans or ask for a boycott of German produce because of it is a bad move, it neglects the real issue here.
  • No, I don't think so.

    Instead I'm boycotting Greece. Largely because in the recent past, their useless fuckwit air traffic controllers have always been on strike when I was scheduled to fly there. So, stuff it, I'm not going any more.
  • Greece has got exactly what it has voted for
  • lolwray said:

    Greece has got exactly what it has voted for

    Greece or the Greeks? Either way, have they got what they voted for?

    They voted for Syriza in the last general election that campaigned for the end to austerity. Just 10 days ago they voted almost 2 to 1 against the bail-out proposal as it stood then and now have no say whatsoever in a revised bail-out proposal that would appear to be even harsher than the one they said no to.

    Their economy cannot sustain the level of debt they have, which is growing every time a bail-out is negotiated, and must be reduced or written off entirely - but that does need to be linked to structural reform of the Greek public sector and in particular its ability (or inability up to now) to collect taxes. They are not just a member of the Eurozone and the EU - they are also a member of NATO ffs!

    The Germans have very short memories - Marshall Plan???
  • #LuckyReds, I was'nt calling for a boycott of Germany, I said I could understand the mentality of those who want to do it, and put it on here as a subject of discussion. As has been mentioned by many others, this rather nasty solution will be paid for by the entire Greek population, especially those least capable of defending themselves such as pensioners. However, the reason greece is in the state it is has very little to do with that segment of the population, and any benefits accrued from joining the Euro were probably only felt by the upper echelons of Greek business. I live in Spain, and have seen at first hand that the economic crisis has hugely benefitted a vast rake of employers, who have been able to put people on the dole very cheaply, employ working practices which are actually ilegal (but complaints inevitably lead to sackings) and cutting wages, holidays and benefits. A 21% VAT level hits the poorest sections of the community. The rich just smile and pay. What has just been imposed on the Greeks is worse tan what we recieved here, and the Germans were very much at the forefront of thrusting this deal through.
    As you said yourself, a boycott of German produce does'nt actually solve anything here, but the deal done on monday does'nt either;- the Greek economy won't withstand it.
  • #LuckyReds, I was'nt calling for a boycott of Germany, I said I could understand the mentality of those who want to do it, and put it on here as a subject of discussion. As has been mentioned by many others, this rather nasty solution will be paid for by the entire Greek population, especially those least capable of defending themselves such as pensioners. However, the reason greece is in the state it is has very little to do with that segment of the population, and any benefits accrued from joining the Euro were probably only felt by the upper echelons of Greek business. I live in Spain, and have seen at first hand that the economic crisis has hugely benefitted a vast rake of employers, who have been able to put people on the dole very cheaply, employ working practices which are actually ilegal (but complaints inevitably lead to sackings) and cutting wages, holidays and benefits. A 21% VAT level hits the poorest sections of the community. The rich just smile and pay. What has just been imposed on the Greeks is worse tan what we recieved here, and the Germans were very much at the forefront of thrusting this deal through.
    As you said yourself, a boycott of German produce does'nt actually solve anything here, but the deal done on monday does'nt either;- the Greek economy won't withstand it.

    My misunderstanding; too little coffee, too early! ;)

    You provide a pretty good argument though, and I'll admit I hadn't really considered some of the things you've highlighted; least of all the fact that the rich will just continue to do as they have been doing so. That seems a pretty common theme regarding financial crisis all over the world though sadly.

    I think we can definitely agree that nothing has been solved though, but sadly I don't see how it can be solved. Very tough time for all involved, but it's clear that something needs to happen... I just have no idea what.
  • edited July 2015
    If a credit card company willingly let me recklessly spend a million pounds despite credit checks showing I cannot afford to pay it back, then they should not be suprised when I can't. They should acknowledge their compliance, accept their share of the responsibility and take some of the financial pain.
  • The Germans & the rest of the Euro zone are just papering over the cracks in hope something better will happen sometime down the line. It wont, Greece is bankrupt now and taking out payday loans from the EU is no solution.
    As for a German goods boycott, I'll boycott their wine, its foul.

    I drink a fair amount of wine and have to say I have never, ever come across any German wine.
    Riesling or more commonly known, anti freeze
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  • Silly and pointless thread is what I could say about many threads. This one included.
  • Dazzler21 said:

    Silly and pointless thread is what I could say about many threads. This one included.

    So are most conversations but they pass the time and not remembered.
  • edited July 2015
    Our balance of payments is running at a deficit £100 billion per year. Maybe that is sustainable, but we lecture others about living beyond their means, looks as if we're doing it too.
    The payday loan analogy is being hoisted, and very few countries are not in hock to Wonga, the UK included. A lot of all this stuff about superiority to Greece smacks of stones in glass houses.
  • Halix said:

    Personally would much rather have Germany pulling the strings in Europe than France, they seem much closer to our own vision of europe than the cheese eating surrender monkies.

    Tell that to the 700k Brits who own a property there, or the thousands who elect to have their hospital op there.

    I'm generally an admirer of modern Germany too, but there's a reason why so many Brits buy a place in France but far less in Germany. You should try France for a holiday and see why
  • seth plum said:

    Our balance of payments is running at a deficit £100 billion per year. Maybe that is sustainable, but we lecture others about living beyond their means, looks as if we're doing it too.
    The payday loan analogy is being hoisted, and very few countries are not in hock to Wonga, the UK included. A lot of all this stuff about superiority to Greece smacks of stones in glass houses.

    2014 trade deficit was 34.8 billion.
  • edited July 2015

    Halix said:

    Personally would much rather have Germany pulling the strings in Europe than France, they seem much closer to our own vision of europe than the cheese eating surrender monkies.

    Tell that to the 700k Brits who own a property there, or the thousands who elect to have their hospital op there.

    I'm generally an admirer of modern Germany too, but there's a reason why so many Brits buy a place in France but far less in Germany. You should try France for a holiday and see why
    You are entitled to your opinion, as am I, and personally I have no great fondness for the way that France seems to want to manipulate Europe SOLELY to their advantage, you only need to look at how the French are reluctant to sort out the mess at Sangatte when they were so keen to promote the freedom of movement. Some reasons that people prefer to live in France rather that Germany may be the weather, the cost of property, and the normally easier transport links over the channel.
  • Halix said:

    seth plum said:

    Our balance of payments is running at a deficit £100 billion per year. Maybe that is sustainable, but we lecture others about living beyond their means, looks as if we're doing it too.
    The payday loan analogy is being hoisted, and very few countries are not in hock to Wonga, the UK included. A lot of all this stuff about superiority to Greece smacks of stones in glass houses.

    2014 trade deficit was 34.8 billion.
    Fair enough, it was something an MP said when I watched PMQ's yesterday. Mind you 34.8 billion of debt, if that happens each year it soon mounts up.

  • seth plum said:

    Our balance of payments is running at a deficit £100 billion per year. Maybe that is sustainable, but we lecture others about living beyond their means, looks as if we're doing it too.
    The payday loan analogy is being hoisted, and very few countries are not in hock to Wonga, the UK included. A lot of all this stuff about superiority to Greece smacks of stones in glass houses.

    I'm far from convinced that the "Balance of Payments" deficit has anything to do with anything at all really.

    BMW sells you a car through their appointed agent, they accept your Pounds and (presumably) exchange them for Euros. (Although they might keep them I suppose). So, as long as the German manufacturer believes that it's worth accepting your money and the markets agree (through the foreign exchange rates and some broad sense of "purchasing power parity") then does it matter? My balance of payments deficit with Tesco (other supermarkets are available) runs at about £100 a week but they don't seem to mind and never ask to buy anything back from me.
  • edited July 2015
    As Ken has alluded to himself, he doesn’t really advocate boycotting Germany but is showing his anger at their behaviour. This doesn’t apply to Greece, but we could run a deficit for the next century with and even shrink the relative overall debt burden. I think this is they way much of the western world, including America has been running since the 20s. All we need to do is keep the long-run budget deficit smaller as a percentage of GDP than the long-run rate of GDP growth. When that happens, GDP outgrows the debt, and the debt-to-GDP ratio declines. People need to understand the economics here beyond equating it to their own family finances. Germany had debts wiped out in the 50s by the allies to allow it to grow and flourish.

    That sort of plan – one where Greece can get it’s house in order but have half a chance was always needed, but the Germans are more worried about the views of its people. The point I have pointed out on another thread, is that it is generally acknowledged that the Germans have benefitted from the weaker Euro that problem economies like Greece create. Now I’m not saying they should thank Greece for having a useless economy but maybe they could be a bit more generous as they are a country that are not out of pocket over this crisis. Totally agree that UK shouldn’t be part of any bail out – it is for Euro zone members only. And to my mind Germany needs to fund the bulk of it. It then needs to give up on its quest to turn the Italian and Greek economies into German ones – they can be improved but this is a pipe dream. It needs to accept that it is the anchor economy in the Euro and there are positive and negative costs for them in having some weak economic countries on board. Their ambition should be to make the economies of these countries a bit saner, but within the constraints of reality.
  • Halix said:

    Halix said:

    Personally would much rather have Germany pulling the strings in Europe than France, they seem much closer to our own vision of europe than the cheese eating surrender monkies.

    Tell that to the 700k Brits who own a property there, or the thousands who elect to have their hospital op there.

    I'm generally an admirer of modern Germany too, but there's a reason why so many Brits buy a place in France but far less in Germany. You should try France for a holiday and see why
    You are entitled to your opinion but personally I have no great fondness for the way that France seems tries to use Europe SOLELY for their advantage. Some reasons that people prefer to live in France rather that Germany may be is the weather, the cost of property, and the transport links over the channel.
    Personally if I was looking to buy an overseas property, how the country in question manipulates the EU for its own selfish needs would not be on my list of important criteria for picking where to buy but maybe I'm the exception.
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