[quote][cite]Posted By: Alex Wright[/cite]They could have been docked three points. That makes it about £1.83m per point.
A Bargain if you ask me.[/quote]
If they stay up it'll be a bargain. But this is hypocritical, Wimbledon were docked points against the games that their illegal player had played in, or at least the games that they won points in.
WHU have only been fined but have pleaded guilty...so they knowingly have committed a crime, so either it was wrong to deduct points from Wimbledon or they are being hypocritical...I think the latter.
READING the ruling it seems that they did not apply a points deduction only because it would be unfair on the players and fans who have been battling relegation with this hanging over their heads and to apply a points deduction now would just be a kick in the teeth to them. What blox. I can see someone challanging this ruling in court, perhaps a Whelan or AlFayed.
It reads that the tribunal are fumbling around trying to justify their decision, and hoping that a large fine will be seen as being a harsh enough penalty.
Watford also lose out on this (potentially), if WHU are deducted points it might effect where they finish in the league and therefore how much prize money they win.
I expected there would be no points deduction but having read the judgment it is an even more pathetic decision
The two players contracts allowed for the third party to sell the players during any transfer window without either the player or West Ham being able to do anything about.However West Ham took the view that those clauses were unenforceable and it appears that the Panel took this into account when deciding the punishment.
It also seems that West Ham were aware that if they were not breaking the rules they were certainly sailing very close to the wind. So much so that they put the thirdy party stuff in side agreements that they did not disclose to the premier league. Subsequently when talking to the premier league in September West-ham said they had disclosed all documentation.
The wishy washy nature of the judgment becomes apparaent when they say that West Ham officials 'misled' premier league officials. In my mind misled is a very soft way of describing something that sounds like outright lies and wilful deception. Essentially they have been given the benefit of the doubt because they pleaded guilty.
The reasons for not giving a points deduction are pretty poor (this is an understatement)
One of which is because of the delay in the proceedings taking place. Basically saying that if they had taken place in January they would have been deducted points and that in general this sort of breach would normally result in a points deduction.
Another strange justification is that the club have not dispensed with the services of the guy responsible for much of the breach when they could have done to look good to the panel.
They even contradict themselves by saying earlier in the judgement that it was unlikely the players would have been registered before the end of the transfer window. They then say that one of the reasons for not deducting points is that the club if they had disclosed the details would have had time before the end of the transfer window to come up with more acceptable contracts.
It gets worse when they give the fact that they could have stopped Tevez playing but didn’t as a reason for NOT deducting points.
The next reason is because they do not want to deduct points as it will upset the West Ham players and fans which is essentially not a very nice thing to do as the club are fighting not to be relegated.
Essentially they have said that they had every justification to deduct points but because of a bunch of frankly pathetic and irrelevant ‘reasons’ they didn’t.
"... there has been a delay between the discovery of these breaches and these proceedings. Whilst that delay is due to no party's fault, the consequence is that a points deduction, say in January, whilst unwelcome, would have been somewhat easier to bear than a points deduction today which would have consigned the club to certain relegation."
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]The Premier Leagues own words on this
"... there has been a delay between the discovery of these breaches and these proceedings. Whilst that delay is due to no party's fault, the consequence is that a points deduction, say in January, whilst unwelcome, would have been somewhat easier to bear than a points deduction today which would have consigned the club to certain relegation."
I wonder if they would have been so considerate to us or Wigan say?
What we believe to have occurred here is that Messrs Brown, Aldridge and Duxbury were anxious to complete the registration of these players by the deadline of 31st August. They knew that the only means by which they could acquire them would be by entering into the third party contracts. Equally, they were aware that the FAPL, at the very least, may not -- and in all probability would not -- have approved of such contracts. They determined to keep their existence from the FAPL.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]The Premier Leagues own words on this
"... there has been a delay between the discovery of these breaches and these proceedings. Whilst that delay is due to no party's fault, the consequence is that a points deduction, say in January, whilst unwelcome, would have been somewhat easier to bear than a points deduction today which would have consigned the club to certain relegation."
So what they are saying is that if you are a mid-table club then you can't do it, but if you're a bit rubbish and likely to go down then you can break the rules and do what you like!
I really don't see why everyone is getting so bent out of shape on this. You ALL knew there would be no points deduction well before the hearing started. Seems a complete waste of people's energy if you ask me. We as Charlton supporters have far more important things to worry about like our own team.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong at any point.
As I understand it, Tevez's registration has been cancelled, and for West Ham to play him again, he must be re-registered by either buying him outright, or organising a formal loan deal.
How can this be legally put through as we are not in a transfer window? Is there a loophole in the rules for this to happen?
I think that AFKA has hit the nail on the head where that this will give the west ham players a massive boost for tomorrows game.
IM FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is wrong wrong wrong! It makes a mockery of the whole game!
I remember end of last season laughing at the Italian teams getting relegated and calling there's a crooked league. well......cant get more crooked than this.
When are they going to realise that punishments in this day and age aren't going to hurt the rich clubs anymore. They have far to much money to care.
If we get relegated anyway we can just argue that it's not very nice to punish a relegated club (basically the same argument they're using). If we stay up 5.5 million will be chicken feed.
We have to be patient with Dickson. hes just came from nowhere and you will not see him even near the first team bench for at least 6 months FACT.
And it would be nothing in comparison to an Argentine international!!!
As I understand it, Tevez's registration has been cancelled, and for West Ham to play him again, he must be re-registered by either buying him outright, or organising a formal loan deal.
..................
But Tevez's registration hasn't been cancelled...the EPL have decided to allow his registration to stand.
27/04/2007 19:53
Following discussions with the FA Premier League, West Ham United can confirm that Carlos Tevez is available for selection for the rest of the season, including tomorrow's game against Wigan Athletic.
The actual registration of Carlos Tevez has not been called into question and he remains a West Ham United player approved by the Premier League.
The actual registration of Carlos Tevez has not been called into question and he remains a West Ham United player approved by the Premier League.
.................
This is getting more and more bizarre...
West Ham were fined because of transfer irregularities and because Tevez's contract was deemed illegal...yet they are now allowing him to play despite his contract being illegal? Eh?
Have I just wandered into some twilight zone here, where logic is inverted?
First the EPL claim that deducting points would be unfair at this stage of the season, as though that changes anything or reduces the crime in any way, now this...
Let me understand this. The contract for Tevez ownership is illegal but as his registration remains with West Ham, he can still play. This is perversity piled upon perversity by a bunch of total buffoons.
Everybody knew these players were "owned" by somebody else right from the outset.
The FAPL asked for confirmation and were told "lies". Why wasn't this investigated further?
They have waited until three games left in the season to deliver a punishment which is unprecedented in it's leniency as regards not docking points. West Hams board will presumably now seek to recover their losses from the previous board. If they succeed, the actual punishment for fielding ineligible players will be..........nothing!! Zero!! Bugger all!!!
A fairly transparent "behind the scenes" deal has been cobbled together to get the FAPL off the hook for failing to police the transfer effectively, and West Ham, (the club who won the World Cup) from being automatically relegated.
What will the Russian Mafia be thinking eh? After all Roman Abramovitch has £5.5 million stuck in his back pocket.
The hearing report had also initially said that the Premier League could terminate Tevez's registration, and if West Ham wanted to play him they will have to re-sign him.
However, West Ham have made quick progress on a new agreement and avoided losing their star striker.
is that a new agreement with MSI, or a new agreement with the FA?!
The only way out of this for the EPL is for West Ham to lose tomorrow and get stuffed at Man U in the last game of the season and go down.
If they escape relegation then the team that replaces them in the relegation zone - be it us, Sheffield Utd, Wigan or Fulham will sue. The result being that by the time the case comes to court and it's all settled it'll be next December or later and half way through the next season.
The EPL should have fined West Ham and docked them points for fielding an inelligible player, they bottled it because Eggert Magnusson threatened legal action.
Comments
A Bargain if you ask me.[/quote]
If they stay up it'll be a bargain. But this is hypocritical, Wimbledon were docked points against the games that their illegal player had played in, or at least the games that they won points in.
WHU have only been fined but have pleaded guilty...so they knowingly have committed a crime, so either it was wrong to deduct points from Wimbledon or they are being hypocritical...I think the latter.
Watford also lose out on this (potentially), if WHU are deducted points it might effect where they finish in the league and therefore how much prize money they win.
A total bottle job.
The two players contracts allowed for the third party to sell the players during any transfer window without either the player or West Ham being able to do anything about.However West Ham took the view that those clauses were unenforceable and it appears that the Panel took this into account when deciding the punishment.
It also seems that West Ham were aware that if they were not breaking the rules they were certainly sailing very close to the wind. So much so that they put the thirdy party stuff in side agreements that they did not disclose to the premier league. Subsequently when talking to the premier league in September West-ham said they had disclosed all documentation.
The wishy washy nature of the judgment becomes apparaent when they say that West Ham officials 'misled' premier league officials. In my mind misled is a very soft way of describing something that sounds like outright lies and wilful deception. Essentially they have been given the benefit of the doubt because they pleaded guilty.
The reasons for not giving a points deduction are pretty poor (this is an understatement)
One of which is because of the delay in the proceedings taking place. Basically saying that if they had taken place in January they would have been deducted points and that in general this sort of breach would normally result in a points deduction.
Another strange justification is that the club have not dispensed with the services of the guy responsible for much of the breach when they could have done to look good to the panel.
They even contradict themselves by saying earlier in the judgement that it was unlikely the players would have been registered before the end of the transfer window. They then say that one of the reasons for not deducting points is that the club if they had disclosed the details would have had time before the end of the transfer window to come up with more acceptable contracts.
It gets worse when they give the fact that they could have stopped Tevez playing but didn’t as a reason for NOT deducting points.
The next reason is because they do not want to deduct points as it will upset the West Ham players and fans which is essentially not a very nice thing to do as the club are fighting not to be relegated.
Essentially they have said that they had every justification to deduct points but because of a bunch of frankly pathetic and irrelevant ‘reasons’ they didn’t.
"... there has been a delay between the discovery of these breaches and these proceedings. Whilst that delay is due to no party's fault, the consequence is that a points deduction, say in January, whilst unwelcome, would have been somewhat easier to bear than a points deduction today which would have consigned the club to certain relegation."
I wonder if they would have been so considerate to us or Wigan say?
What we believe to have occurred here is that Messrs Brown, Aldridge and Duxbury were anxious to complete the registration of these players by the deadline of 31st August. They knew that the only means by which they could acquire them would be by entering into the third party contracts. Equally, they were aware that the FAPL, at the very least, may not -- and in all probability would not -- have approved of such contracts. They determined to keep their existence from the FAPL.
Hit the nail on the head, there, Sco - the FA have just opened the floodgates. I am so ANGRY.
So what they are saying is that if you are a mid-table club then you can't do it, but if you're a bit rubbish and likely to go down then you can break the rules and do what you like!
Trevor Brooking in with the FA isn't he................. EH!!!!!!!! ALLEGEDLY
Good point Sco - but you can be sure that we would get done more than the Hamsters
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong at any point.
As I understand it, Tevez's registration has been cancelled, and for West Ham to play him again, he must be re-registered by either buying him outright, or organising a formal loan deal.
How can this be legally put through as we are not in a transfer window? Is there a loophole in the rules for this to happen?
IM FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is wrong wrong wrong! It makes a mockery of the whole game!
I remember end of last season laughing at the Italian teams getting relegated and calling there's a crooked league. well......cant get more crooked than this.
When are they going to realise that punishments in this day and age aren't going to hurt the rich clubs anymore. They have far to much money to care.
If we need a goal - put Dickson on.
If we get relegated anyway we can just argue that it's not very nice to punish a relegated club (basically the same argument they're using). If we stay up 5.5 million will be chicken feed.
And it would be nothing in comparison to an Argentine international!!!
..................
But Tevez's registration hasn't been cancelled...the EPL have decided to allow his registration to stand.
No I'm not joking.
27/04/2007 19:53
Following discussions with the FA Premier League, West Ham United can confirm that Carlos Tevez is available for selection for the rest of the season, including tomorrow's game against Wigan Athletic.
The actual registration of Carlos Tevez has not been called into question and he remains a West Ham United player approved by the Premier League.
.................
This is getting more and more bizarre...
West Ham were fined because of transfer irregularities and because Tevez's contract was deemed illegal...yet they are now allowing him to play despite his contract being illegal? Eh?
Have I just wandered into some twilight zone here, where logic is inverted?
First the EPL claim that deducting points would be unfair at this stage of the season, as though that changes anything or reduces the crime in any way, now this...
WTF is going on?
Everybody knew these players were "owned" by somebody else right from the outset.
The FAPL asked for confirmation and were told "lies". Why wasn't this investigated further?
They have waited until three games left in the season to deliver a punishment which is unprecedented in it's leniency as regards not docking points. West Hams board will presumably now seek to recover their losses from the previous board. If they succeed, the actual punishment for fielding ineligible players will be..........nothing!! Zero!! Bugger all!!!
A fairly transparent "behind the scenes" deal has been cobbled together to get the FAPL off the hook for failing to police the transfer effectively, and West Ham, (the club who won the World Cup) from being automatically relegated.
What will the Russian Mafia be thinking eh? After all Roman Abramovitch has £5.5 million stuck in his back pocket.
The hearing report had also initially said that the Premier League could terminate Tevez's registration, and if West Ham wanted to play him they will have to re-sign him.
However, West Ham have made quick progress on a new agreement and avoided losing their star striker.
is that a new agreement with MSI, or a new agreement with the FA?!
If they escape relegation then the team that replaces them in the relegation zone - be it us, Sheffield Utd, Wigan or Fulham will sue. The result being that by the time the case comes to court and it's all settled it'll be next December or later and half way through the next season.
The EPL should have fined West Ham and docked them points for fielding an inelligible player, they bottled it because Eggert Magnusson threatened legal action.