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New News Shopper Column - Selling Club?

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  • rikofold said:

    Kap10 said:

    As others have said, every club is a selling club with the exception of maybe one or two in Spain, but now we can be a selling club that can play hardball and get the best deal. For Parker we got a good financial deal, but we gave in to player power and finacial power and the timing (deadline day). Two weeks earlier and we should have been able to bring in a couple of players who would have negated the loss of Parker and maintained momentum. The sale of Lee was a great deal because it meant we could pay the bills at the end of the week, but stank financially because Lee was worth more.

    Duchatalet will ensure we are a selling club as it is the only way his model can work, even if we get to the Prem (I believe) but as a stubborn old git, he will manage the timing and get the best price.

    I broadly agree but I still think there is a major disconnect between his advisers/experts and the reality of what Charlton need both in players to keep and to let go.

    Yes, we've now signed experienced at this level and in this country players such as Eagles and Johnson (Diarra to a lesser extent) but on short deals.

    Is that a realisation that the like of Phil Chapple and Damian Matthew are at least as knowledgeable and worth listening to as his mis-firing "experts" such as Karel Faraye when scouting players to sign?

    Or a trio of last minute signings as we were heading towards league one and needed something, anything, is a hurry and they were all out of contract so available and cheap. Isn't squad strengthening what the window was for?

    Watt is turning out as a good, maybe great, signing but he didn't replace Reza as KM claimed at the VIP meeting. George replaced Reza and when he went back to Romania we got a player (under Bob remember) who wasn't match fit and hadn't worked out for the club that bought him (Standard).

    Still a big question mark over LePoint even if he was much improved v Forest. No point going over all the others from last year although three are still on our books.

    The financial stability that Roland brings is much needed, the aim to break even is admirable (even if I struggle to see how it can be achieved and we remain competitive under the new FFP guidelines).

    The sharing of resources and the wider opportunities created by the network could be a game changer.

    What is needed to make the break even model work is really top notch player recruitment (including via the academy) that is consistently and significantly better than those clubs with more money. That is only way we can bridge the gap.

    But so far it just hasn't been anywhere good enough even if recent signings might suggest it is getting better.

    One reason for that is, I suggest, that the experts with lap tops aren't at Sparrows Lane or even in England but somewhere in Belgium. Yes we live in a virtual, interconnected global village now but we're not even sure who they are or which club is their priority. Not Charlton otherwise Watt could have come in the summer. And scouting is about a lot more than stats or analysis. Personality, motivation, character, fit and fitness all come into it and you don't get that from a computer. Which is maybe why Watt is a hit here but not at Standard or at least a part of it.

    Sort out the recruitment and things might just get very interesting over the next few seasons. Because we have the financial stability now to seize opportunities if they come.

    Until then the bumpy ride continues. This is, remember, just a smooth part of the journey we are on right now. That can change very quickly.
    Unbelievable! Is the recruitment really so completely useless and inappropriate?

    Back in the real world most fans have been watching a team which has just won four of the last five games - Three of them 3-0.

    This is clearly as a result of Henderson returning and new arrivals like Watt but the rest of the front six have been here all the time.
    Vetokele, Buyens, Gudmundsson, Bulot and Watt make up our front six with Cousins. It is possible to argue that this is our best front six since we were relegated from the FAPL. Two of them are Liege loans and three were bought on the open market.

    Some Liege players work out and some don't so best we get used to that!

    Similarly they have recruited a number of central defenders on the open market and none of them look too shoddy.

    I agree we don't know who is making the decisions and we don't know if there will be an attempt to break even this season with summer sales.
    And we don't know what the ambition and wage budget will be for next season.

    But given that Liege and CAFC have both rebuilt brand new squads which are competitive I would venture that Staprix does know how to identify and land talent.

    Given our new look team has been built in just two windows I would venture that they are quite good at it! A competitive squad with just £5m outlay on transfer fees.

    I will add one observation and that is that it might be quite expensive to improve on what we have. FFP Loss limits have increased to £13m and the FAPL media deal is up again. There is going to be a limited pool of talent across Europe who match or better the standard of our current squad.

    In summary I believe they know precisely how to execute deals to meet their ambition but they are simply not stating what the ambition is for 2015-16. This summer window will tell us everything we need to know. The recruitment has been good enough to get us to mid-table and that is a long way from bottom place just 12 months ago.

    Let's see what the squad looks like in August!

    A question SR. How many players have been recruited to Charlton in the time since RD purchased the club, and of those how many are appearing regularly in our current first team?
    Good question - I don't know the exact answer but it's clear that players who don't make it are shifted out the following window: Koc, Nego, Piotr, Tucudean. And I would expect that to continue this summer.

    I don't think our player turnover is much higher than other clubs given that the 2012-14 squad was largely out of contract.

    As above, the next window will tell us everything we need to know about ambition.

  • Flip, Flop

    "seriously_red Member
    February 1
    If you care about our club then I would suggest that maybe we should be despondent. And then work out what you can do about it. Some would say not much right now except wait for the wheels to fall off!

    I don't need to wait ten games nor until August as the writing is on the wall.

    1) We are playing the return half of the season and we've been completely found out.
    No number 9. Gudmundsson doesn't get to cut in and shoot or pass anymore because he is our only attacking threat and is marked / closed down every time. Nothing down the left. And Lepoint - why?!

    2) It is clear now that there is no one in charge with the requisite football knowledge. Duchatelet either thinks he knows enough and/or is scared to get someone with influence and knowledge to direct things here and at Liege.

    3) Nothing against players coming and going from the network but someone should have identified what we needed to start winning games and then go out and sign them FFS.

    Sorry to break the news but every one of our opponents is going to think we are a soft touch from now on in. I'm not saying we have a divine right to beat Rotherham but that was poor and, as plenty have stated, devoid of any inspiration. We've now failed to beat them, Blackpool and Millwall at home. There was nothing today that we haven't seen throughout the last few months. Nothing there!

    It's starting to look like Jiminez and Slater knew more about how to run the football side of the club than Duchatelet. These random signings and complete failure to improve the attacking threat after a year in charge makes Duchatelet's decision to buy the club look more weird every week.

    Why sink in £20m+ to end up with this outcome one year down the road? We are 18th again which is where Riga left us in May.

    But I would maintain we are in a much worse place because of the direction of travel. And last season we were able to beat clubs at the bottom. This season we are a known entity with a board who are "trying to do something a little different". That appears to ignore the fundamentals in that you need attacking threat to make chances, chances to make goals and goals win games.

    And to build that takes cash, an experienced talented coach plus leadership at the club. What some have known for a while but was cruelly exposed by the Luzon appointment and the "interview on the train" is that we have no leadership at the club. Just an administrative puppet who executes the actions requested by someone playing championship manager with us in another country.

    Sure this is a shift change for my commentary. But until November 2014 I could see rational decisions and progress. Now I just see an owner out of his depth who is either too arrogant and/or lacks insight to appoint a director of football / head coach who has the technical ability, gravitas and experience to make something happen.

    Riga delivered and was shown the door - says it all!"

    Flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop

    I think Mr Hayes has got you there SR!
  • seriously_red = Nick Clegg :smile:
  • Rob said:

    Getting back the Louis article. The point that stuck out to me was the comparison between Charlton and SL. I like to feel there is a difference there. RD is a businessman. All good businessmen know to sell high and buy low, whatever the commodity. I like to think that's what he did last year at SL. They had topped the Belgium league and he felt it was a good time to sell some assets as they had reached their high point. He's now rebuilding there to reach another high point when, no doubt, he'll sell again.

    From Charlton's perspective it all depends what RD considers to be his 'high point'. If that is mid championship (which I very much doubt) then he will sell at the end of this season to cash in. However, if his 'high point' is higher than that, and let's face it, where he'll get the biggest bang for the buck is if we get promoted to the PL, then there wouldn't be any point in selling at the moment. That is what I think (hope) RD's plan is. The PL must be his ultimate aim, surely, at least for now.

    So, we all need to wait and see but, in my opinion, RD's aim is still to get the biggest bang for his buck which will be by making us as financially attractive as possible for him to make a big profit. That would be by attaining PL status. Where it would go from there, who knows. It all depends on what RD considers to be his 'high point' and how much he is willing to spend to get to that point.

    A bumpy ride indeed with, hopefully, more excitement than frustration.

    I hope you are right but at the same time the noises coming from KM are about being competitive in the Championship and breaking even.

    Maybe they don't want to build up expectations too much, as KM as also said, and they do want to be in the Premier League (why wouldn't they?).

    But the hard part is getting there and doing that while moving towards breaking even.

    As I've been saying since RD came in it will be a bumpy ride. It has been so far (four coaches, dozens of players some good some not, two brushes with relegation, two late runs taking us away from the drop, meetings, protests, etc etc.) and I think that will continue because Roland doesn't do things the way most owners do.

    Certainly not boring though.
  • Rob said:

    Getting back the Louis article. The point that stuck out to me was the comparison between Charlton and SL. I like to feel there is a difference there. RD is a businessman. All good businessmen know to sell high and buy low, whatever the commodity. I like to think that's what he did last year at SL. They had topped the Belgium league and he felt it was a good time to sell some assets as they had reached their high point. He's now rebuilding there to reach another high point when, no doubt, he'll sell again.

    From Charlton's perspective it all depends what RD considers to be his 'high point'. If that is mid championship (which I very much doubt) then he will sell at the end of this season to cash in. However, if his 'high point' is higher than that, and let's face it, where he'll get the biggest bang for the buck is if we get promoted to the PL, then there wouldn't be any point in selling at the moment. That is what I think (hope) RD's plan is. The PL must be his ultimate aim, surely, at least for now.

    So, we all need to wait and see but, in my opinion, RD's aim is still to get the biggest bang for his buck which will be by making us as financially attractive as possible for him to make a big profit. That would be by attaining PL status. Where it would go from there, who knows. It all depends on what RD considers to be his 'high point' and how much he is willing to spend to get to that point.

    A bumpy ride indeed with, hopefully, more excitement than frustration.

    The question is now, how hard is he willing to push for promotion instead of keeping things steady and hoping Luzon/newest head coach du jour manages to get a late surge into the play-offs at some point in the future? If the books stay relatively balanced does he play the waiting game, or does he speculate to accumulate and funds one season of heavy spending and investment to really take a serious crack at promotion? We've seen clubs try both approaches, and both have worked and failed for different teams under different managers, but the only one who knows what RD is thinking right now is RD.
  • Good article - agree we don't need to be a selling club any more - but we will be if Roland wants us to. Here's hoping he keeps this team together as much as possible in the summer. We don't know what's going to happen with the loanees but it'd be heartbreaking to lose somebody like Watt or Gudmundsson in the close season. With this side I think we can really make a stab at the play offs next season.
  • I agree what we won't splurge money on transfers and will sell players if the bid is high enough, but there's no reason why we couldn't have a competitive team under that sort of financial management. Burnley show what a decent team and great team spirit can achieve, and I'm sure Brentford's playing budget is much lower than many teams beneath them in the league.

    As Rob said above, I can't see Championship survival being his long term aim. Nobody buys a mid sized Championship club without having ambitions to get into the PL, even if they don't say so.
  • thenewbie said:

    Rob said:

    Getting back the Louis article. The point that stuck out to me was the comparison between Charlton and SL. I like to feel there is a difference there. RD is a businessman. All good businessmen know to sell high and buy low, whatever the commodity. I like to think that's what he did last year at SL. They had topped the Belgium league and he felt it was a good time to sell some assets as they had reached their high point. He's now rebuilding there to reach another high point when, no doubt, he'll sell again.

    From Charlton's perspective it all depends what RD considers to be his 'high point'. If that is mid championship (which I very much doubt) then he will sell at the end of this season to cash in. However, if his 'high point' is higher than that, and let's face it, where he'll get the biggest bang for the buck is if we get promoted to the PL, then there wouldn't be any point in selling at the moment. That is what I think (hope) RD's plan is. The PL must be his ultimate aim, surely, at least for now.

    So, we all need to wait and see but, in my opinion, RD's aim is still to get the biggest bang for his buck which will be by making us as financially attractive as possible for him to make a big profit. That would be by attaining PL status. Where it would go from there, who knows. It all depends on what RD considers to be his 'high point' and how much he is willing to spend to get to that point.

    A bumpy ride indeed with, hopefully, more excitement than frustration.

    The question is now, how hard is he willing to push for promotion instead of keeping things steady and hoping Luzon/newest head coach du jour manages to get a late surge into the play-offs at some point in the future? If the books stay relatively balanced does he play the waiting game, or does he speculate to accumulate and funds one season of heavy spending and investment to really take a serious crack at promotion? We've seen clubs try both approaches, and both have worked and failed for different teams under different managers, but the only one who knows what RD is thinking right now is RD.
    Personally, I prefer the 'steady' approach and isn't that what this FFP thing is all about. I think there are ways of achieving things without throwing bucket loads of money at it. I think RD has already shown that to be his approach. The DeLort episode is a classic example of this.
  • Every club in this country, bar Utd, City and Chelsea are selling clubs.

    Although I agree with you to some extent, I think "selling club" in this article means a club that is always looking to sell its best players, rather than one which aims to keep them and push for promotion. If we sell players like Vetokele, Gudmundssonn or Cousins in the summer then I think that would make us a selling club (Unless of course we get a VERY big offer).
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  • If Bulot, Buyens and TBH go back to SL at the end of the season, and the players on short deals, Eagles, Diarra, OO, Etheridge, Johnson do not sign on, plus players out of contract Wilson etc, RD will have to buy half a team again, never mind if he wants to sell any of our good players.
  • I've been subject to some abuse, envy, praise, trolling and even some good natured humour on CL but "octogenarian"!!!!!!!!

    Ditch the cardigans
  • Didn't Katrien say recently in answer to a question that Luzon doesn't scout the players himself, he tells Phil Chapple the type of player he wants and Chapple does the rest?. Which means that Roland has learned something about his Euro-scouts. Better late than never, I say.
  • In other news, grass is green and the sky is blue
  • How does all this square with the comment that KM was reported to have said at the EKA meeting, that RD was willing to buy two or three expensive players if premiership could be obtained?
  • In the old days clubs would often have relatively rich owners. However to gauge whether a club was a selling or buying club, beyond the largesse of the owner was pretty easy to identify.

    Do they have big attendances?
    Have they got money from a cup run?
    Have they got big money in from transfers?
    If they are a 'smaller' club have they had an unexpected big game with gate receipts?
    Have they gained the benefit from a sell on clause?
    Do they pay low wages and have low running costs?
    Have they got much prize money or TV money?

    Now I've probably missed something obvious off that list, but the point I'm trying to make is you had a decent chance of following some kind of money trail which would usually lead you to 'rich person bankrolling' or 'getting into heavy debt' or 'living within their means' or even 'going bust'.

    The bit that is hard to understand about the network finances is what goes where?

    Are we paying the wages of our people or is there some kind of thing happening? How do we finance a Polish Pete or an Igor or any number of wheels and deals we have boiling away (e.g. Reza or Anil Koc or whoever)? Is there a relationship between our attendances, or other income streams, to what we're spending? Are we suddenly going to find we have 50 million debt, or are in surplus? I admit I don't have a clue. however I can look at Millwall or Crystal Palace and have a better idea about their respective financial fortitude because their affairs are much less complicated than ours seem to be.

    Maybe I shouldn't worry my pretty little head about such stuff, Uncle Roland and Auntie Katrien are taking care of it, it's all under control, and anyway there is a need to know basis.

    Not very easy to follow it all, but very easy to assume that our objective is something a bit different to everything being about winning matches.

    BTW didn't Guy Luzon start at Standard de Liege with ten wins in a row?

  • Rob said:

    Getting back the Louis article. The point that stuck out to me was the comparison between Charlton and SL. I like to feel there is a difference there. RD is a businessman. All good businessmen know to sell high and buy low, whatever the commodity. I like to think that's what he did last year at SL. They had topped the Belgium league and he felt it was a good time to sell some assets as they had reached their high point. He's now rebuilding there to reach another high point when, no doubt, he'll sell again.

    From Charlton's perspective it all depends what RD considers to be his 'high point'. If that is mid championship (which I very much doubt) then he will sell at the end of this season to cash in. However, if his 'high point' is higher than that, and let's face it, where he'll get the biggest bang for the buck is if we get promoted to the PL, then there wouldn't be any point in selling at the moment. That is what I think (hope) RD's plan is. The PL must be his ultimate aim, surely, at least for now.

    So, we all need to wait and see but, in my opinion, RD's aim is still to get the biggest bang for his buck which will be by making us as financially attractive as possible for him to make a big profit. That would be by attaining PL status. Where it would go from there, who knows. It all depends on what RD considers to be his 'high point' and how much he is willing to spend to get to that point.

    A bumpy ride indeed with, hopefully, more excitement than frustration.

    Generally in football, if you stand still, you go backwards because everybody else is strengthening their squads. Finishing second in a competition should mean that you strive to win it next time, you don't do that by flogging your best players. In my opinion it was ridiculous that Liege would sell 3-4 of their better players after managing to lose their play-off, and it's no surprise that they've struggled at times this season as a result.

    I will be seriously pissed off if some of our best players are sold off in the summer and the calibre of their replacement is lacking. KM says that they are trying to build a good squad, you do that by constantly improving on what you have, not by selling your best assets and bringing in some hopefuls to replace them. We all know who our best players are and we need to keep them. Unfortunately some of the players we have are only on loan. What happens next season? Will they go back to the mothership whilst we fail to fill the gap they leave? Will they be offered a full contract with us?

    I'm really curious to see how the transfer business is done in the summer, I think it will give us a much better understanding of RD's plan and it will definitely show us if KM has been fobbing us off with more hot air, or whether her statement that they are trying to build us a competitive squad is actually the truth. Time will tell.
  • Rob said:

    Getting back the Louis article. The point that stuck out to me was the comparison between Charlton and SL. I like to feel there is a difference there. RD is a businessman. All good businessmen know to sell high and buy low, whatever the commodity. I like to think that's what he did last year at SL. They had topped the Belgium league and he felt it was a good time to sell some assets as they had reached their high point. He's now rebuilding there to reach another high point when, no doubt, he'll sell again.

    From Charlton's perspective it all depends what RD considers to be his 'high point'. If that is mid championship (which I very much doubt) then he will sell at the end of this season to cash in. However, if his 'high point' is higher than that, and let's face it, where he'll get the biggest bang for the buck is if we get promoted to the PL, then there wouldn't be any point in selling at the moment. That is what I think (hope) RD's plan is. The PL must be his ultimate aim, surely, at least for now.

    So, we all need to wait and see but, in my opinion, RD's aim is still to get the biggest bang for his buck which will be by making us as financially attractive as possible for him to make a big profit. That would be by attaining PL status. Where it would go from there, who knows. It all depends on what RD considers to be his 'high point' and how much he is willing to spend to get to that point.

    A bumpy ride indeed with, hopefully, more excitement than frustration.

    Generally in football, if you stand still, you go backwards because everybody else is strengthening their squads. Finishing second in a competition should mean that you strive to win it next time, you don't do that by flogging your best players. In my opinion it was ridiculous that Liege would sell 3-4 of their better players after managing to lose their play-off, and it's no surprise that they've struggled at times this season as a result.

    I will be seriously pissed off if some of our best players are sold off in the summer and the calibre of their replacement is lacking. KM says that they are trying to build a good squad, you do that by constantly improving on what you have, not by selling your best assets and bringing in some hopefuls to replace them. We all know who our best players are and we need to keep them. Unfortunately some of the players we have are only on loan. What happens next season? Will they go back to the mothership whilst we fail to fill the gap they leave? Will they be offered a full contract with us?

    I'm really curious to see how the transfer business is done in the summer, I think it will give us a much better understanding of RD's plan and it will definitely show us if KM has been fobbing us off with more hot air, or whether her statement that they are trying to build us a competitive squad is actually the truth. Time will tell.
    I stand corrected on this but of the squad from yesterday, you have Bulot, Buyens, Johnson, Lepoint, E*****, Diarra and Church out of contract come the 1st June.

    Coupled with Onyewu, Wilson and Ben-Haim it will be interesting to see how many we retain.
  • Le Point signed a long contract.
  • Rob said:

    Getting back the Louis article. The point that stuck out to me was the comparison between Charlton and SL. I like to feel there is a difference there. RD is a businessman. All good businessmen know to sell high and buy low, whatever the commodity. I like to think that's what he did last year at SL. They had topped the Belgium league and he felt it was a good time to sell some assets as they had reached their high point. He's now rebuilding there to reach another high point when, no doubt, he'll sell again.

    From Charlton's perspective it all depends what RD considers to be his 'high point'. If that is mid championship (which I very much doubt) then he will sell at the end of this season to cash in. However, if his 'high point' is higher than that, and let's face it, where he'll get the biggest bang for the buck is if we get promoted to the PL, then there wouldn't be any point in selling at the moment. That is what I think (hope) RD's plan is. The PL must be his ultimate aim, surely, at least for now.

    So, we all need to wait and see but, in my opinion, RD's aim is still to get the biggest bang for his buck which will be by making us as financially attractive as possible for him to make a big profit. That would be by attaining PL status. Where it would go from there, who knows. It all depends on what RD considers to be his 'high point' and how much he is willing to spend to get to that point.

    A bumpy ride indeed with, hopefully, more excitement than frustration.

    Generally in football, if you stand still, you go backwards because everybody else is strengthening their squads. Finishing second in a competition should mean that you strive to win it next time, you don't do that by flogging your best players. In my opinion it was ridiculous that Liege would sell 3-4 of their better players after managing to lose their play-off, and it's no surprise that they've struggled at times this season as a result.

    I will be seriously pissed off if some of our best players are sold off in the summer and the calibre of their replacement is lacking. KM says that they are trying to build a good squad, you do that by constantly improving on what you have, not by selling your best assets and bringing in some hopefuls to replace them. We all know who our best players are and we need to keep them. Unfortunately some of the players we have are only on loan. What happens next season? Will they go back to the mothership whilst we fail to fill the gap they leave? Will they be offered a full contract with us?

    I'm really curious to see how the transfer business is done in the summer, I think it will give us a much better understanding of RD's plan and it will definitely show us if KM has been fobbing us off with more hot air, or whether her statement that they are trying to build us a competitive squad is actually the truth. Time will tell.
    I stand corrected on this but of the squad from yesterday, you have Bulot, Buyens, Johnson, Lepoint, E*****, Diarra and Church out of contract come the 1st June.

    Coupled with Onyewu, Wilson and Ben-Haim it will be interesting to see how many we retain.
    I would retain Bulet, Johnson, Eagles and Diarra. Not sure about Church, maybe the new quick way Charlton are playing will suit him (OK, maybe not).

    Buyens looks to be going back. TBH is good but I don't see him staying. Not sure about Wilson, as a back up squad player he is Ok. His contract is likely to be realistic / good value in the scheme of things. As long as you have realistic expectation of him. Gomez is better at centre back and extra support at Right back for Solly is essential.

    Le Point, a bit of a strange transfer. I am hoping that he is not being served up as replacement for Buyens. Being charitable, it is impossible to judge him on being playing out of position up front and not yet up to the pace of the Championship. Not sure what his best position is though or if he will be a 'miss' and destined to be shifted to another part of the network.

    I would be happy to renew my season ticket. On a squad that retains the best bits of the current squad and strengthens in the weaker areas then that is easy. The last couple of home games were excellent. If it is like that then definitely. Who knows what kind of squad will line up in September 15 ?
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Roland Out Forever!