Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Just an opinion but now is a good time to try and get some dialogue with the club

If the Woolwich meeting had been a week earlier, there might have been more discontent than there was. Now, I fear, that after 3 good wins out of 4 games, there is a temptation to back off and feel everything is OK or better. Perhaps, those criticising the current regime, which included me, have calmed a bit as Championship football looks more certain than it did before the Brentford game.

In my view, though, this is the time to try and start a dialogue with the club. People are far more prepared to talk when things are going well rather than the siege mentality that may have pervaded amongst the owner and his representatives four games ago.

Have your opinions changed since the Brentford game? Or, do you feel some action is still needed?

Comments

  • A show of hands was asked at the meeting in flamingos if we are win our next five games and avoid relegation would you still like the trust to continue trying to get dialogue with the club.

    90% hands went up to that question and regardless of the recent results, nothing has changed my mind re that question from under two weeks ago.

  • We should certainly continue to seek dialogue but it sounds as if KM's attitude towards the Trust (or maybe unhappy supporters in general) is quite dismissive. I really wish we could all (and I mean KM too) could draw a line under past events and have a constructive discussion about how we can all pull together. We are, after all, on the same side and with the same desire for success. I think there have been mistakes on both sides. I very much hope the Trust can call upon Richard Murray to broker a "truce", so that we can show KM that supporters are, ultimately, on her side.
  • KM gets lots of abuse and is now dismissive of the fans, funny that!!
  • iaitch said:

    KM gets lots of abuse and is now dismissive of the fans, funny that!!

    And why did this 'abuse' happen? Probably due to the dismissive attitude. Weird.
  • Good point.
  • hmm, deferred fan engagement for months last spring/summer, completely unnecessary and ott in my view
  • The owner and his employees have little or no interest in "the fans".
    We are a byproduct of his investment and not something that deserves any dialogue.

    He gave you a free match programme about a year ago - what is it you want now ?


    As I said before on another thread:

    Pay only for the games you want to go to.
    Don't indirectly give him money by purchasing anything from him.
    Support the 11 for the 90 to get results.

    CAFC will be back in touch with the fans one day, when RD is long gone, and that will be the time to muster.
  • edited March 2015
    'You started it' - 'no you started it'
    'I'm not playing with you because you called me names' - 'I'm not playing with you because you said you don't like me'

    Remind you of the school playground when you were very young?

    Seems to me that both sides have dug holes and those holes keep getting deeper. I think Rick said on another thread something about talking different languages - not sure that's true - I think both sides are talking mostly bollox.

    I'm 100% with @Davo55 on this.
  • Read back. The dialogue is there. It is the answers people don't like.

    A "dialogue" is a conversation to resolve a problem, it doesn't have an "answer" to it.
  • Sponsored links:


  • edited March 2015
    I doubt there is a siege mentality. I think it is more likely that KM and RD have a working relationship that does not include KM representing our interests to RD. I doubt that RD feels under siege from some representatives of the fans of one of the clubs he owns. He will no doubt feel some inclination to keep the customers happy, but maybe feels he is providing what he needs to. I seem to remember that there was some statement to the effect that the plan was for Charlton to consolidate in the Champ for another season before pushing for promotion, and with us 12th in the table he probably feels satisfied that he is on target. When it looked as though we might fail to do that he sacked the manager, brought in another and his judgment seems to have been correct in that we are now back on track. I would imagine in any other field of enterprise that would be seen as astute management.
  • According to my dictionary dialogue is:-

    an exchange of ideas or opinions on a particular issue, especially a political or religious issue, with a view to reaching an amicable agreement or settlement.
  • I reckon that @thai malaysia addick is quite right that, now that results seem to have turned somewhat, and many people are feeling in a (at least partially) better mood, this is definitely the time to build bridges.

    Although, bearing in mind that KM has done both the Bromley and VIP meetings recently, then surely that is 'dialogue', plus there is still an ongoing question in my mind, at least, as to, if the Trust is talking to Richard Murray on a regular basis, then how much dialogue do you want?

    The difficulty is always going to be trying to understand what all the different people, who have very different hopes and fears for the club actually want. Is it 'dialogue' to find out answers to questions about the club? Or is it 'dialogue' making demands of the club to change how it is operating?

    So, you might not go into 'dialogue' knowing what the answers will be, but you do need to know what you (i.e. the combined ranks of supporters as a whole - good luck!!!) want to achieve and at least in theory understand what an answer to your questions might be.

    It would be no use, for example, trying to have 'dialogue' in the sense of trying to simply understand what is happening at the club and then ask questions like: "Can you tell us when RD is going to sell up and leave us along?" Or "can you tell us when RD is going to give us our Charlton back?"

    As I say, it is difficult, but I do think that the club is trying and that @thai malaysia addick is right that the opportunity is now when tensions are running less high.
  • Dialogue, with meaningful responses, is what is required.
    At the moment, you generally receive a "politician's" response.
    In other words, the questions are not answered, but avoided, or if they are answered, they are less than full answers, that are not permitted to be discussed further.

    Unfortunately, this leads to mistrust and then Katrien becomes upset, when people accuse her of lying.
  • edited March 2015

    Dialogue, with meaningful responses, is what is required.
    At the moment, you generally receive a "politician's" response.
    In other words, the questions are not answered, but avoided, or if they are answered, they are less than full answers, that are not permitted to be discussed further.

    Unfortunately, this leads to mistrust and then Katrien becomes upset, when people accuse her of lying.

    Any lawyer or any person not just of accredited professional standing would get upset at being called a liar and having their integrity called into question, I certainly would have! However as I have said on the 'Dear Katrien' thread she has not done herself any favours with her attempts at 'dialogue' and a take it or leave it attitude.

    Now is as good a time as any to wipe the slate clean and for the club and disgruntled fans to start working together.
  • RedChaser said:

    Dialogue, with meaningful responses, is what is required.
    At the moment, you generally receive a "politician's" response.
    In other words, the questions are not answered, but avoided, or if they are answered, they are less than full answers, that are not permitted to be discussed further.

    Unfortunately, this leads to mistrust and then Katrien becomes upset, when people accuse her of lying.

    Any lawyer or any person not just of accredited professional standing would get upset at being called a liar and having their integrity called into question, I certainly would have! However as I have said on the 'Dear Katrien' thread she has not done herself any favours with her attempts at 'dialogue' and a take it or leave it attitude.

    Now is as good a time as any to wipe the slate clean and for the club and disgruntled fans to start working together.
    Agreed and I don't believe I've ever called her a liar myself.
  • Since this all started I wanted to understand the points being made, it was established that there was no dialog with fans

    Since that was stated it has since been accepted that there is currently dialog

    RM talks to the trust,

    The trust was spoken too and decided not to continue with a route if dialog offered to them ref the freeze of ST

    That KM has attended a fans meeting and is attending another


    I think now that maybe there is dialog just those answers are not what is wanted to be heard

    As such a new strap line is required for the sandwich boards and protest placards
  • iaitch said:

    KM gets lots of abuse and is now dismissive of the fans, funny that!!

    As a Football Fan, she must be aware that the people who get the most abuse is normally the Board. As her boss has only turned up to the Bolton Game,
    Katrien is the senior figure at the club, and as CEO and overseer of transfers,
    She can't be surprised that the patience of fans finally ran out after 3 months without a win.

    Did fans not have the right to question the timeline of events in that week ?

    The abuse was minimal compared to any other London club,
    taking 6 point from 39 ?


    One of Katrien Quotes was that she would be worried if we weren't passionate !

    I didn't realize it was a one way street of passion.
    Only when we win !




  • I was at the meeting and voted against dialogue. I just don't see the point. Roland surrounds himself with yes-persons and only listens to those who agree with him, and Katrien's answers suggest to me that she wants to fob us off with a charm offensive,and anyway she doesn't have a lot of credibility. Roland pays her wages, and that's where her loyalty lies, naturally enough, and beyond telling us that he wants the best for Charlton, we're not going to get much more out of her.
  • i think the idea of some-one like RM trying to broker a clean slate is a good idea. Any business should benefit from free feedback rom customers. In fact most consumer companies pay fortunes for this. No other industry has the benefit of people willing to devote such effort for this.
    Logically the should be a dialogue. However while some people see it as get RD out and make personal attacks on KM we will be ignored.
  • Sponsored links:


  • If and when there are any meetings with the CAFC powers that be, it would be nice to thank them for belatedly seeing sense and signing some experienced British players .. Johnson (especially) and Eagles have already made a big difference and Watt, although a network employee, will prove to be a major coup following in the path (we hope) of Mendonca, Hunt and Bent
  • I was at the meeting and voted against dialogue. I just don't see the point. Roland surrounds himself with yes-persons and only listens to those who agree with him, and Katrien's answers suggest to me that she wants to fob us off with a charm offensive,and anyway she doesn't have a lot of credibility. Roland pays her wages, and that's where her loyalty lies, naturally enough, and beyond telling us that he wants the best for Charlton, we're not going to get much more out of her.

    I just do not understand this mentality. Because you think it's a waste of time, you don't think it's even worth another try? Surely the best thing to do is to vote yes for a dialogue and let the people do their best to try to get it?
  • I was at the meeting and voted for more dialogue and a more structured dialogue, not just ad hoc dialogue, such as the forthcoming Bromley meeting. In the VIP meeting Katrien did say that she would consider changes to the Fans Forum, maybe this is a route that should be pursued with the trust and other interested fans groups proposing a structure, membership and remit of Forum. It then firmly puts the ball back in the clubs lap and by operating through the forum no single group is represented which appears to be Katriens requirement. Of course, this does not address speaking to Roland, but then I don't get the obsession with Rhaving to talk to Roland and Roland having to attend games. We have established he is a business man not a charlton fan, so his presence at matches is really irrelevant to how e do as a club.

    Where's Roland - Where's Wally as some might say ........ who cares to be honest and for what logical reason.
  • Kap10 said:

    I was at the meeting and voted for more dialogue and a more structured dialogue, not just ad hoc dialogue, such as the forthcoming Bromley meeting. In the VIP meeting Katrien did say that she would consider changes to the Fans Forum, maybe this is a route that should be pursued with the trust and other interested fans groups proposing a structure, membership and remit of Forum. It then firmly puts the ball back in the clubs lap and by operating through the forum no single group is represented which appears to be Katriens requirement. Of course, this does not address speaking to Roland, but then I don't get the obsession with Rhaving to talk to Roland and Roland having to attend games. We have established he is a business man not a charlton fan, so his presence at matches is really irrelevant to how e do as a club.

    Where's Roland - Where's Wally as some might say ........ who cares to be honest and for what logical reason.

    The answer is perfectly simple. If your questions relate to the overall strategic direction of the business, you need to get the answers from the man who has the majority share of the business. That is why Richard Murray rather than Peter Varney fielded those questions in the 90s and early 2000s. That is also why RM is now careful to qualify all his current remarks, both publicly and privately. He reports to RD and is careful to respect that business protocol. That is why, even though RM talks to the Trust, he is unable to provide the answers to the big questions. He makes that perfectly clear, and we understand it.

    As for the Fans Forum, you should also know from your business experience that you cannot have one meeting covering big strategic issues, and also operational issues which are less important in the long term but which a lot of participants feel strongly about. Such a meeting won't be efficient or effective.
  • bobmunro said:

    'You started it Āpanē isē śurū kara diyā' - 'no you started it Kō'ī āpa isē śurū kara diyā'
    'I'm not playing with you because you called me names Tuma mujhē nāmōṁ kahā jātā hai kyōṅki maiṁ tumhārē sātha nahīṁ khēla rahā hūm̐ - 'I'm not playing with you because you said you don't like me Tuma mujhē pasanda nahīṁ hai kyōṅki unhōnnē kahā ki maiṁ tumhārē sātha nahīṁ khēla rahā hūm̐'

    Remind you of the school playground when you were very young?

    Seems to me that both sides have dug holes and those holes keep getting deeper. I think Rick said on another thread something about talking different languages - not sure that's true - I think both sides are talking mostly bollox.

    I'm 100% with @Davo55 on this.

    It does now!
  • Dialogue with the club must still be at the top of The Trusts agenda. We all want what is best for the club and even if RD and KM don't realise it yet, getting the fans onboard is in the clubs best interest.
  • The season ticket blurb talks of building a better future together. Maybe the parent club would like to contemplate what they mean by 'together', and how much that fits in with what the fans understand by the term.
    At the moment the idea of together still seems to be to either pay up and put up, and if you don't like it, then bog off. The whole show remains Roland's plaything/project because he has fronted up the dosh, and that approach is perfectly understandable.
    I await some proactive definition of what together means from Roland's perspective, but I do know that collaboration often means compromise to avoid it basically being a dictatorship, and I wonder how much Roland is prepared to give up.
    Does 'together' simply mean he provides the stadium, and we clean the seats? Or does it mean the more slow and difficult route of exploring why we should invest financially, physically and emotionally in the Duchatelet vision.
  • I was at the meeting and voted against dialogue. I just don't see the point. Roland surrounds himself with yes-persons and only listens to those who agree with him, and Katrien's answers suggest to me that she wants to fob us off with a charm offensive,and anyway she doesn't have a lot of credibility. Roland pays her wages, and that's where her loyalty lies, naturally enough, and beyond telling us that he wants the best for Charlton, we're not going to get much more out of her.

    I just do not understand this mentality. Because you think it's a waste of time, you don't think it's even worth another try? Surely the best thing to do is to vote yes for a dialogue and let the people do their best to try to get it?
    What do you want to say to Katrien that hasn't been said at previous meetings with fans?

Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!