The first half was the worst I've witnessed in 42 years and though Watt, Vetokele, Cousins and even Harriott did give us renewed hope, there was a certain inevitability to the outcome. Bikey, Buyens & Bulot have hopefully played their last game for us and Henderson can't come back quick enough. I can't see any way back for this team and I genuinely think we will go down. I really don't want to think about where that will leave our great club.
Looking back, I didn't bother celebrating Watts goal last night and even stayed in my seat when Igor struck the equaliser. I just turned to my son and said 'we'll still lose this'. I've never been such a passive and negative supporter. What has happened?
That's pretty much what happened with us. Depressing isn't it
And what happened to all the programme sellers? Just as I get used to buying my programme from a homeless person under a railway arch, they disappear completely! The club couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery right now
That performance should put a few more bums on seats on the 18th.
Yes, Brentford bums
since Roland has been here, i stopped (or was forced out of using) crossbars for myself and two boys £250 per season, I dont by the programme anymore, i dont buy food or drink inside the ground, and am now seriously thinking about not getting season tickets for next season for the three of us either.
Surely, he must see its hitting him in his pocket as i know I am not the only one.
Attacking free-kicks that go back to our keeper, Runs down the wing that are played back into the centre circle New striker sitting on the bench until we are 2-0 down Goal keeper getting lobbed Buyens not interested
RD is picking the team and this looks like a relegation side.
I found something quite poignant about last night.
Last season, when we were down in the shite, we went 2 down at Hillsborough. A rejuvenated Saint Sordell bagged a hatty and we won 3-2, which sparked a run of half decent form and saw us stay up with a game to spare.
The year before, having gone through a sticky patch and lingering above the relegation zone, we go 2-0 down at home to Bolton. Due to the fight of players such as Jacko, Kerm, Morrison etc. we turned it around that day and won 3-2, before having an end of season tear up and cruising home in 9th.
Last night, on one of the worst runs in years, we go 2-0 down at home. I mentioned the two games above to my old man at HT and said if we did the same here it would be the most stunning of the lot. Incredibly we get it back to 2-2 - but THIS season we didn't complete the job. We have no battlers. We have no pride and passion. We have no spark to go on a run of form.
When comparing last nights situation to the aforementioned matches, looking at the squad personnel across the 3 years and the general attitude of most fans I know/see on matchday...I can't help but feel the writing is on the wall.
Positive that we scored 2. Dont mind JBG blowing hot and cold, he's a winger and they tend to and he's also done probably more going forward this season than anyone.
Need to try something different at the back and in the middle. Johnson and Gomez at CB? I dont know what the answer is but the two in CB tonight were complete shite. Cant remember seeing a decent performance from anyone at LB this season either. Cousins in the middle needed as VG said earlier. We need that energy. Fuck Buyens, the guy gives less of a shit than Bikey.
4-5-1 away. 4-4-2 at home. Watt and V to start as they are our only decent strikers. Lets get Lepoint involved at some point just to try something new.
"Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" - definition of insanity.
I found something quite poignant about last night.
Last season, when we were down in the shite, we went 2 down at Hillsborough. A rejuvenated Saint Sordell bagged a hatty and we won 3-2, which sparked a run of half decent form and saw us stay up with a game to spare.
The year before, having gone through a sticky patch and lingering above the relegation zone, we go 2-0 down at home to Bolton. Due to the fight of players such as Jacko, Kerm, Morrison etc. we turned it around that day and won 3-2, before having an end of season tear up and cruising home in 9th.
Last night, on one of the worst runs in years, we go 2-0 down at home. I mentioned the two games above to my old man at HT and said if we did the same here it would be the most stunning of the lot. Incredibly we get it back to 2-2 - but THIS season we didn't complete the job. We have no battlers. We have no pride and passion. We have no spark to go on a run of form.
When comparing last nights situation to the aforementioned matches, looking at the squad personnel across the 3 years and the general attitude of most fans I know/see on matchday...I can't help but feel the writing is on the wall.
I hope I am proved wrong
Good reference point. I think the difference last night was that Norwich let us back in through sloppy play. We never took the game to them. We didn't look like a home team 2-0 down, coming out at the start of the 2nd half ready to smash it. I have been to countless away games where we have led at half time, feared the worst and teams often come out swinging. We got lucky with slack marking and somehow found ourselves level. That won't always be the case, and what you said about the fight sums it up perfectly
How hard is it to pass the ball 5 yards when you have it, and press the opposition when you don't??? I help coach kids football on weekends, and they have more of a clue than that lot last night. Pathetic.
Where are people getting we had a good 30 minutes from? We scored 2 undeserved goals, they'd taken their foot off the gas and we still couldn't pass the ball to our own players. Bikey was hopeless in addition to the rest of the poor performers.
Watt was our saving Grace, he battled hard and could save us if he starts as part of a pairing. Harriott looked decent coming on too.
Well I have to say that this was a very distressing evening. I have been going to Charlton for 54 years this year and I have seen plenty of poor sides in that time but I cannot recall one that didn’t appear to be trying. The first 45 minutes were frankly embarrassing and the fact that we went in 2-0 down was probably fortunate if we were playing a better side that could have easily been 4 or 5. There was no shape, no drive, no energy and no effort what made it worse was the atmosphere was toxic with a fair amount of venom aimed at Luzon who honestly looked like a rabbit in the headlights.
So second half and against all expectations we get a couple of goals, what was really odd was the muted reaction to our second from the lower North we weren’t even sure it was a goal until Ruddy kicked the ball into the car park. But inevitably we concede again from a good cross and finish, Jerome looked a handful from the moment he came on and gave Bikey a torrid time. Another loss and the trap door is now well and truly open. So what can we do? In a rational football world we would drop Bikey, Buyens whose only apparent talent is picking up yellow cars, Bulot who is useless and Ben Haim. At least Vetokele put in a shift and there was some promise of a partnership with Watt which should be developed and used at least they gave their defence something to think about.
Even when we lost the ground and were tenants at Selhurst I never felt so downbeat as this, the owner is now clearly a genuine threat to the very future of our club, on the face of it there is very little anyone can do about it and it is obvious from last night that the players do not want to be there. I would love to be more upbeat but these are dark days indeed.
Seen a fair few people slating the effort, I think most put it in but the confidence and form made them ineffectual. First half Igor was yet again chasing his own flick ons (he has definitely lost a yard of pace) but with a partner he suddenly looked dangerous. Buyens was mostly anonymous last night but I think he was told to sit very deep.
Cousins as always did the running of two, but lacked composure and options when it mattered. It is worrying when a youngster is the one trying to drive our midfield forward. Also that if we go down he and Gomez will be sold off on the cheap.
Not read through most of the thread yet but wanted to share a few thoughts.
On the first half, I've seen us torn apart before and concede 4/5 goals in games, while the two we did concede were poor they were from mistakes that could have been avoided. We've been worse defensively but that doesn't make it good in any way.
Going forward we had nothing. Don't think we had a single shot in the entire first half. As everyone knows by now there's no hold up play and no one that can challenge for headers (I know Igor wins the odd one but he is in no way a target man).
I have no problem with Bulot being given another chance but he came in as a winger, why play him up front/off the striker? Should only be used out wide for me, looked lost.
Second half we somehow scored twice from the few chances we created. I thought we could even go on and win it. But in true Duchatelet era style any hope is lost as we concede and there was no way we were going to come back again.
Unlike when we last went down we a actually have two decent strikers. Igor and Watt have got to start together to give us a chance.
Buyens for me is a Championship Racon. When things are going well he looks good, composed, doesn't give the ball away, does his job. However that's not enough in our position and he's never the Premier League player some have claimed he is. He lacks the energy and drive to play box to box, he doesn't have the tackling and aggression to be a ball winner, and while he has a decent range of passing he's not a particularly creative passer, he's not a playmaker. He's not the player you want in there when you want to be first to 50:50s or up the tempo.
Cousins has got to play in the middle, his strengths aren't running at players, crossing etc, and we could do with a quicker, energetic player in central midfielder.
JBG has to play but off the ball I still don't think he does enough, but that could be helped by playing Cousins centrally. He and won't tackle and challenge, frustrating when we need to battle our way out of this. Maybe that's better though when we had Danny Green who couldn't tackle but would foul.
Bikey is more regularly getting outmuscled and doesn't look the same player. Would be happy to see Gomez or Johnson come in for him.
Wiggins was ok, has a tough time against good pacey wingers but still better than Fox.
Solly didn't have a good game, regularly knocking long balls down the line. Maybe he shouldn't play twice in a week, again I'd be happy for Gomez to come in for him if he needs to rest his knee.
Dmitrovic I'm not convinced about, hasn't been poor but I'd like Henderson back when available.
On the atmosphere it's quiet but a few more defeats and it'll get closer to being the toxic atmosphere that had been talked about.
Start of the season we defended well and even if we didn't have much of the ball we created some good quality chances. Now we concede far too many and struggle to create chances and score goals. Still feel like we're going down.
Well I have to say that this was a very distressing evening. I have been going to Charlton for 54 years this year and I have seen plenty of poor sides in that time but I cannot recall one that didn’t appear to be trying. The first 45 minutes were frankly embarrassing and the fact that we went in 2-0 down was probably fortunate if we were playing a better side that could have easily been 4 or 5. There was no shape, no drive, no energy and no effort what made it worse was the atmosphere was toxic with a fair amount of venom aimed at Luzon who honestly looked like a rabbit in the headlights.
So second half and against all expectations we get a couple of goals, what was really odd was the muted reaction to our second from the lower North we weren’t even sure it was a goal until Ruddy kicked the ball into the car park. But inevitably we concede again from a good cross and finish, Jerome looked a handful from the moment he came on and gave Bikey a torrid time. Another loss and the trap door is now well and truly open. So what can we do? In a rational football world we would drop Bikey, Buyens whose only apparent talent is picking up yellow cars, Bulot who is useless and Ben Haim. At least Vetokele put in a shift and there was some promise of a partnership with Watt which should be developed and used at least they gave their defence something to think about.
Even when we lost the ground and were tenants at Selhurst I never felt so downbeat as this, the owner is now clearly a genuine threat to the very future of our club, on the face of it there is very little anyone can do about it and it is obvious from last night that the players do not want to be there. I would love to be more upbeat but these are dark days indeed.
Good summary. I share the same fears for the future of our club.
I am brimming with admiration for those people who still go and my appreciation of the 240 who travelled to Middlesbrough knows no bounds but I will not go as long as Duchatelet and Meire are involved. I will willingly accept relegation to get rid of these grasping opportunists. We have to play the long game here and, if that means, dropping down a division to eradicate this malign influence from our great club, then so be it. But, for the time being, I'm done with it but my gratitude to those of your sticking with it is immense.
Like a lot of comments, our two goals papered over cracks, Norwich were well drilled, organised, kept possession neatly, pass and move very good, compared to our non existent midfield, a complete different class.
Bikey must be dropped, was awful. TBH looks disinterested. Cousins must be moved i the middle, at least get some presence in there. Buyens must be dropped.
What worries me is that we don't have a style of play. So many of our fans moan when we got backwards or sideways and scream for us 'to get it forward'. But we have no presence of target man up there and end up losing it, giving the ball back because we can't hold it up. A lot of teams in this league seem to have 2 or 3 ball playing CM's that constantly rotate, pass and move, find the space and receive the ball from their defence.
Struggling to see where the next point is coming from.
In my opinion, you could see we were going to lose that game in the minutes before kick-off. The Norwich players were bouncing around, full of energy, encouraging each other. Our lot stood around, looking morose. (Actually they looked like a load of people from a office who hated each other but had been told to go on a team-bonding session and didn't know how to start). God knows what Jackson must say in the huddle. Probably put a good performance in and there's a chance you can get out of this mad-house.
Team spirit is shot to pieces, you can see that. The looks and words between Solly and Ben Haim all night proved that and I guess they can't stand the sight of each other. And without that team spirit, we are lost because this lot of incompetents will never win a game through ability.
Won't repeat what others have said but must say Bikey was awful. Surely he wasn't fit in the second half? But bad as he was, the one who really annoyed me was Ben Haim. Continually playing the ball backwards or sideways, often to a colleague who had players bearing down on him.
Barring a miracle (or a tall centre forward who can score 15 goals in the rest of the season) we are down.
On a side note, did Igor's shot actually go in? Looked like it hit the post and came out from where I was sitting.
I wasn't sure about either goal because they both came flying straight out again. One of the reasons I don't like new style nets. They're even creeping into non-league now! RD....get those onion bags sorted out!!!
Posted without reading many and I wasn't at the game : (What t f do I know) The result was ordained as soon as the team was announced: Only 1 proper striker alongside Bulot who's been away for weeks yet is instantly recalled as if he were a vital component .. 2 changes in defence as well as one enforced change in midfield .. so far as I know only one change was because of injury .. Just how was Luzon expecting yet another new grouping to instantly gel and get it right against one of the better teams in the division ?. Last Saturday's team was outplayed but gave it 100% , so why so many changes ? .. I have been very patient with this new regime (as if they or anyone either knows or cares) but now I wish they would all pack up and go back to where they all belong ... but I fear it aint gonna happen until CAFC is totally holed below the waterline and is sinking beyond hope of salvage
On a side note, did Igor's shot actually go in? Looked like it hit the post and came out from where I was sitting.
I wasn't sure about either goal because they both came flying straight out again. One of the reasons I don't like new style nets. They're even creeping into non-league now! RD....get those onion bags sorted out!!!
It def went in he shot so hard it hit advertising hoarding in rear of goal and came back out
On a side note, did Igor's shot actually go in? Looked like it hit the post and came out from where I was sitting.
I wasn't sure about either goal because they both came flying straight out again. One of the reasons I don't like new style nets. They're even creeping into non-league now! RD....get those onion bags sorted out!!!
Definitely in Hit the board at the back and rocketed back out as his strike was so ferocious
Just look at his body language, he quite obviously doesn't wan't to be here . What sort of message does that send out to the players? In a strange sort of way i feel a little bit sorry for him.
Perhaps it would have been better to go down last year.If we stay up this year RD will just cut deeper and provide less money as he will have achieved his objective which is to stay up and cut costs. PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT BANKROLL THIS MAN BY RENEWING YOUR SEASON TICKETS.
Comments
I can't see any way back for this team and I genuinely think we will go down.
I really don't want to think about where that will leave our great club.
And what happened to all the programme sellers? Just as I get used to buying my programme from a homeless person under a railway arch, they disappear completely! The club couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery right now
since Roland has been here, i stopped (or was forced out of using) crossbars for myself and two boys £250 per season, I dont by the programme anymore, i dont buy food or drink inside the ground, and am now seriously thinking about not getting season tickets for next season for the three of us either.
Surely, he must see its hitting him in his pocket as i know I am not the only one.
Runs down the wing that are played back into the centre circle
New striker sitting on the bench until we are 2-0 down
Goal keeper getting lobbed
Buyens not interested
RD is picking the team and this looks like a relegation side.
Last season, when we were down in the shite, we went 2 down at Hillsborough. A rejuvenated Saint Sordell bagged a hatty and we won 3-2, which sparked a run of half decent form and saw us stay up with a game to spare.
The year before, having gone through a sticky patch and lingering above the relegation zone, we go 2-0 down at home to Bolton. Due to the fight of players such as Jacko, Kerm, Morrison etc. we turned it around that day and won 3-2, before having an end of season tear up and cruising home in 9th.
Last night, on one of the worst runs in years, we go 2-0 down at home. I mentioned the two games above to my old man at HT and said if we did the same here it would be the most stunning of the lot. Incredibly we get it back to 2-2 - but THIS season we didn't complete the job. We have no battlers. We have no pride and passion. We have no spark to go on a run of form.
When comparing last nights situation to the aforementioned matches, looking at the squad personnel across the 3 years and the general attitude of most fans I know/see on matchday...I can't help but feel the writing is on the wall.
I hope I am proved wrong
Need to try something different at the back and in the middle. Johnson and Gomez at CB? I dont know what the answer is but the two in CB tonight were complete shite. Cant remember seeing a decent performance from anyone at LB this season either. Cousins in the middle needed as VG said earlier. We need that energy. Fuck Buyens, the guy gives less of a shit than Bikey.
4-5-1 away. 4-4-2 at home. Watt and V to start as they are our only decent strikers. Lets get Lepoint involved at some point just to try something new.
"Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" - definition of insanity.
I wish I could.
Where are people getting we had a good 30 minutes from? We scored 2 undeserved goals, they'd taken their foot off the gas and we still couldn't pass the ball to our own players. Bikey was hopeless in addition to the rest of the poor performers.
Watt was our saving Grace, he battled hard and could save us if he starts as part of a pairing. Harriott looked decent coming on too.
Still so angry with this crap.
So second half and against all expectations we get a couple of goals, what was really odd was the muted reaction to our second from the lower North we weren’t even sure it was a goal until Ruddy kicked the ball into the car park. But inevitably we concede again from a good cross and finish, Jerome looked a handful from the moment he came on and gave Bikey a torrid time. Another loss and the trap door is now well and truly open. So what can we do? In a rational football world we would drop Bikey, Buyens whose only apparent talent is picking up yellow cars, Bulot who is useless and Ben Haim. At least Vetokele put in a shift and there was some promise of a partnership with Watt which should be developed and used at least they gave their defence something to think about.
Even when we lost the ground and were tenants at Selhurst I never felt so downbeat as this, the owner is now clearly a genuine threat to the very future of our club, on the face of it there is very little anyone can do about it and it is obvious from last night that the players do not want to be there. I would love to be more upbeat but these are dark days indeed.
Cousins as always did the running of two, but lacked composure and options when it mattered. It is worrying when a youngster is the one trying to drive our midfield forward. Also that if we go down he and Gomez will be sold off on the cheap.
Cheers Roland.
On the first half, I've seen us torn apart before and concede 4/5 goals in games, while the two we did concede were poor they were from mistakes that could have been avoided. We've been worse defensively but that doesn't make it good in any way.
Going forward we had nothing. Don't think we had a single shot in the entire first half. As everyone knows by now there's no hold up play and no one that can challenge for headers (I know Igor wins the odd one but he is in no way a target man).
I have no problem with Bulot being given another chance but he came in as a winger, why play him up front/off the striker? Should only be used out wide for me, looked lost.
Second half we somehow scored twice from the few chances we created. I thought we could even go on and win it. But in true Duchatelet era style any hope is lost as we concede and there was no way we were going to come back again.
Unlike when we last went down we a actually have two decent strikers. Igor and Watt have got to start together to give us a chance.
Buyens for me is a Championship Racon. When things are going well he looks good, composed, doesn't give the ball away, does his job. However that's not enough in our position and he's never the Premier League player some have claimed he is. He lacks the energy and drive to play box to box, he doesn't have the tackling and aggression to be a ball winner, and while he has a decent range of passing he's not a particularly creative passer, he's not a playmaker. He's not the player you want in there when you want to be first to 50:50s or up the tempo.
Cousins has got to play in the middle, his strengths aren't running at players, crossing etc, and we could do with a quicker, energetic player in central midfielder.
JBG has to play but off the ball I still don't think he does enough, but that could be helped by playing Cousins centrally. He and won't tackle and challenge, frustrating when we need to battle our way out of this. Maybe that's better though when we had Danny Green who couldn't tackle but would foul.
Bikey is more regularly getting outmuscled and doesn't look the same player. Would be happy to see Gomez or Johnson come in for him.
Wiggins was ok, has a tough time against good pacey wingers but still better than Fox.
Solly didn't have a good game, regularly knocking long balls down the line. Maybe he shouldn't play twice in a week, again I'd be happy for Gomez to come in for him if he needs to rest his knee.
Dmitrovic I'm not convinced about, hasn't been poor but I'd like Henderson back when available.
On the atmosphere it's quiet but a few more defeats and it'll get closer to being the toxic atmosphere that had been talked about.
Start of the season we defended well and even if we didn't have much of the ball we created some good quality chances. Now we concede far too many and struggle to create chances and score goals. Still feel like we're going down.
IN THE FIRST HALF.
I share the same fears for the future of our club.
Bikey must be dropped, was awful. TBH looks disinterested. Cousins must be moved i the middle, at least get some presence in there. Buyens must be dropped.
What worries me is that we don't have a style of play. So many of our fans moan when we got backwards or sideways and scream for us 'to get it forward'. But we have no presence of target man up there and end up losing it, giving the ball back because we can't hold it up. A lot of teams in this league seem to have 2 or 3 ball playing CM's that constantly rotate, pass and move, find the space and receive the ball from their defence.
Struggling to see where the next point is coming from.
Team spirit is shot to pieces, you can see that. The looks and words between Solly and Ben Haim all night proved that and I guess they can't stand the sight of each other. And without that team spirit, we are lost because this lot of incompetents will never win a game through ability.
Won't repeat what others have said but must say Bikey was awful. Surely he wasn't fit in the second half? But bad as he was, the one who really annoyed me was Ben Haim. Continually playing the ball backwards or sideways, often to a colleague who had players bearing down on him.
Barring a miracle (or a tall centre forward who can score 15 goals in the rest of the season) we are down.
The result was ordained as soon as the team was announced: Only 1 proper striker alongside Bulot who's been away for weeks yet is instantly recalled as if he were a vital component .. 2 changes in defence as well as one enforced change in midfield .. so far as I know only one change was because of injury .. Just how was Luzon expecting yet another new grouping to instantly gel and get it right against one of the better teams in the division ?. Last Saturday's team was outplayed but gave it 100% , so why so many changes ? ..
I have been very patient with this new regime (as if they or anyone either knows or cares) but now I wish they would all pack up and go back to where they all belong ... but I fear it aint gonna happen until CAFC is totally holed below the waterline and is sinking beyond hope of salvage
It def went in he shot so hard it hit advertising hoarding in rear of goal and came back out
Hit the board at the back and rocketed back out as his strike was so ferocious
No 1 then no 2
Belief round the ground?
Rocking atmosphere?
PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT BANKROLL THIS MAN BY RENEWING YOUR SEASON TICKETS.