Where do we go from here?

m_2

My apologies if these points have already been made but as a lifelong supporter, for better for worse, through thin and thin . . .
- I feel the change to FFP was a watershed for RD. His whole declared strategy for the club was unexpectedly washed away at a stroke and suddenly he does not have the long term advantage he thought he had for our club and his not inconsiderable investment.
- Understandably he must be in a period of transition to a new business plan and model and not be too happy about it
- Does he want to compete in a £50m race to the Premiership - every season, when his competition is funded by Sky? No way.
- We also have to contend with a completely different culture towards Coaches/Managers. His style is 'Pick any of a dozen that are available and if they don't take the squad forward out they go'
- He wants to change the way our traditional UK agent dominated transfer system works which is laudable, but unfortunately we have to feel the pain whilst he experiments
- He has appointed an MD without experience of a UK football club who is learning on the job. She will probably do very well at her next club but unfortunately we are the 'guinea pig' with all the associated (though I feel well intentioned) errors of judgement
- He is not going to take the slightest notice of what fans say. As far as he is concerned they are there for the duration or he markets for new ones, simple.
- Unfortunately protests by fans always affect the teams performance, so with public unrest we would face probable relegation not just possible relegation year on year. We have to be very, very careful we do not shoot ourselves in the foot.
- I think he will 'coast' on a minimum investment level until he finds a buyer for the club - much as the last incumbents did.
- In doing so, he risks a falling off in attendance and season ticket sales so he will invest enough to protect his investment, but not more.
- However, as a group we are not your every day football fans. We have found innovative and effective ways of expressing our feelings before that actually strengthened the club as a whole (Back to the Valley)
- This is a role perfectly suited to the supporters groups to brainstorm ideas and develop a communications campaign to show the world that we want to fight for our clubs long term future (in the right way)
Come on boys, who is going to drive this?

AFKABartram

Think that is an accurate summary mate

Athletico Charlton

Except the two network lads who had long contracts from RD already the other signings, Etheridge, Johnson and the Spurs lad are all on short contracts to end of season which does suggest to me that a strategy of doing the minimum to stay up whilst finding someone else to take us forwards is a possibility here.

kigelia

I have seen the situation in a similar way. I think the whole approach by RD was dependant on FFP. It is going to be difficult to make it work until the football league and its members agree to enforce it properly. All the time the majority of championship clubs are essentially ignoring their bank balance the network approach will not work - I am not saying it will work if FFP is taken seriously but it might.

The problem I have is that of accepting that the current approach is not working. We are playing some awful football but I do not want our owners to say if you cant beat them, join them. Spending millions that the club cannot afford (I realise the owner can but that is not the same thing) is not an approach I want to entertain.

All the talk of protests feels a bit premature. It seems to me as a protest about playing badly. I have been a fan for about 30 years and if we had protested everytime we had a run of bad form I think there would gave been 10-15 of them in that time. There haven't been so what is different this time? Essentially it seems to me that people are not happen because we are not bidding millions we haven't got for players we cant afford.

I think we need to think carefully about what exactly it is we aren't happy about and what we want done about it.

The Red Robin

Athletico Charlton said:

Except the two network lads who had long contracts from RD already the other signings, Etheridge, Johnson and the Spurs lad are all on short contracts to end of season which does suggest to me that a strategy of doing the minimum to stay up whilst finding someone else to take us forwards is a possibility here.

I hope so.

cabbles

I think this is a hard to point to tackle and it has been raised in other threads. A lot of other posters have talked about how they think we should show RD we are upset etc

First of all, not everyone is upset. Some people are still backing our current owner and everything he has done for the club.

Secondly, and I put myself in this category, there are those that supported RD and wanted to give him time, yet we are now frustrated with everything that has gone on over the last few months. However, I'm not frustrated to the point of staged protests, season ticket boycotts or marching on RD's office. It's not that I think all is rosy in the garden of Roland, but I still want to go and support the team.

Then finally there are those that are perfectly within their right to say enough is enough and they are done until a change in the regime is made.

You are right when you say this is a great place to brainstorm ideas etc, but support of your football club is an individual pursuit. I think collective action like 'back to the Valley' is something that transpired as a result of the common goal and absolutely everyone pushing for the same thing

Bryan_Kynsie

We have to have realistic expectations in relation to the only person with the money and control. The idea that he will "invest" in expensive playing or coaching staff is not realistic so where do we go from here is a good question. The mission is to turn a hopelessly loss making business into one that is self-financing. The reality is that promotion from this league is nigh on impossible on that basis because of the fees and wages needed for the sort of players that fans and coaches perceive to be needed.

Without a sugar daddy the answer to the question posed in this thread must be sideways at best. Our turnover naturally funds a L1 squad I'm afraid.

MountsfieldPark

Worry not. This guy commenting on the Wyn Grant blog has it sorted:

"from what been told last night rd looking for offers for the club at £23m but for a quick sale would take around £35m"

"im doing all i can get some people interested in our club i will get someone i reckon by end of march april time sent loads letters out last night and doing some more today so we see who bites"

WestCountryAddick

Bryan_Kynsie said:

We have to have realistic expectations in relation to the only person with the money and control. The idea that he will "invest" in expensive playing or coaching staff is not realistic so where do we go from here is a good question. The mission is to turn a hopelessly loss making business into one that is self-financing. The reality is that promotion from this league is nigh on impossible on that basis because of the fees and wages needed for the sort of players that fans and coaches perceive to be needed.

Without a sugar daddy the answer to the question posed in this thread must be sideways at best. Our turnover naturally funds a L1 squad I'm afraid.

So essentially you are saying that RD's plan is to do the bare minimum season after season to hope we just survive in the Championship? Clearly going down will be financially crippling and to go up he would need to throw a decent amount of money at the team. So that just leaves treading water as an option.

ValleyGary

MountsfieldPark said:

Worry not. This guy commenting on the Wyn Grant blog has it sorted:

"from what been told last night rd looking for offers for the club at £23m but for a quick sale would take around £35m"

"im doing all i can get some people interested in our club i will get someone i reckon by end of march april time sent loads letters out last night and doing some more today so we see who bites"

Acworth?

WestCountryAddick

MountsfieldPark said:

Worry not. This guy commenting on the Wyn Grant blog has it sorted:

"from what been told last night rd looking for offers for the club at £23m but for a quick sale would take around £35m"

"im doing all i can get some people interested in our club i will get someone i reckon by end of march april time sent loads letters out last night and doing some more today so we see who bites"

Sounds like Acworth. Ye Gods...we are saved...

Rothko

It's Acworth

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329889984642264422&postID=681831077921915913

MountsfieldPark

Rats! What gave it away?

MrLargo

It's a good summary m2. There is one major area behind all of this that completely baffles me - I don't know exactly how much Duchatelet paid for the club in the end, but however much it was, we'll be worth a hell of a lot less as a League 1 club that's alienated a significant proportion of its supporters.

So the resale value will drop significantly, and the overall cost of owning the club will presumably increase - lower running costs yes, but less tv income, less sponsorship money and significantly less ticket revenue to pay those costs with. The player values will drop as well, transfer fees for League 1 players are lower than those for Championship players. Don't get it at all. The fact that Roland's made a managerial change (albeit a ridiculous one) suggests that he doesn't want us to get relegated, but the lack of satisfactory transfer activity sugggests that he wants to get us relegated to the Dog and Duck Sunday League as quickly as possible. I initially thought that Roland was some sort of evil genius who had a masterplan that would work for him but be hated by us. I am now starting to think that he's just a clueless tit.

AFKABartram

#wegoagain

soapy_jones

Where do we go from here?

Is it down to the lake I fear?

Ay ay ay ay ay ah
Ay ay ay ay ay ah

falconwood_1

Where does it go from here?
Is it down to the lake I fear?
Ay, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah
Ay, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah



A Haircut 100 strike will be more effective.

Baldybonce

.

Airman Brown

Bryan_Kynsie said:

We have to have realistic expectations in relation to the only person with the money and control. The idea that he will "invest" in expensive playing or coaching staff is not realistic so where do we go from here is a good question. The mission is to turn a hopelessly loss making business into one that is self-financing. The reality is that promotion from this league is nigh on impossible on that basis because of the fees and wages needed for the sort of players that fans and coaches perceive to be needed.

Without a sugar daddy the answer to the question posed in this thread must be sideways at best. Our turnover naturally funds a L1 squad I'm afraid.

It doesn't. We lost significant amounts of money in League One and would lose a lot more if we are relegated back there, because revenue would be significantly less this time.

You might be able to finance a Conference or L2 squad on our current income, but of course income would fall if you tried it.

Even with a capacity full-price crowd at every match - at least double the current position - we'd still struggle to break even.

soapy_jones

Who hijacked the Haircut 100 thread?

Seriously too down about the Addicks atm to contemplate the big R. Gotta hope RD has the smarts to see something we all don't sort of Belgium like!

Now 100, what ever happened to those dudes?

Davo55

The fact that RD was willing to invest in the infrastructure, shell out relatively big money on Delort in the summer, and that fees were paid (sadly) for the likes of Polish Pete back then made me think that he was willing to invest enough to at least make us highly competitive in this league - not on a Bournemouth or Derby type scale, but let's say with the likes of Boro.

His obvious unwillingness to compete in either the transfer or wage market for the right level of player in January suggests a change. I guess it is possible that he is willing to settle for just staying up this season and then investing again in the summer, when prices are less inflated, more good players are out of contract and we can give the illusion, at least) of not being quite so much of a basket case of a club. In other words, to progress very, very slowly year by year and looking for the development and sale of young stars like Joe Gomez to cover the return on his investment to some degree. That would at least be an understandable strategy, albeit a frustrating one.

Personally, even if he does have this workable yet tedious strategy in mind, I've had enough of the network approach - expressed simply as recycling coaches and players already on the payroll, looking solely for cheap Euro bargains, running the club on an ill-prepared amateurish basis and not giving a damn about the supporters.

I doubt very much that RD is looking to sell. I think that he has an ego considerably larger than his native country and wouldn't want to be seen to fail. If there is an offer that gives him his investment back, plus a premium, he might just go for it, being a business man - but I suspect a key ingredient of any offer would be, as reportedly with the Josh Harris interest, a move to the peninsular.

If so, as I recently said on another thread, we might be faced with a difficult choice: given equal solvency, would you prefer to stick with the Valley and Roland's model of running the club, or have a new owner who will invest in the team at the price of a move away from the Valley. It would be a tough call either way, so everyone ought to be prepared for that.

cabbles

Davo55 said:

The fact that RD was willing to invest in the infrastructure, shell out relatively big money on Delort in the summer, and that fees were paid (sadly) for the likes of Polish Pete back then made me think that he was willing to invest enough to at least make us highly competitive in this league - not on a Bournemouth or Derby type scale, but let's say with the likes of Boro.

His obvious unwillingness to compete in either the transfer or wage market for the right level of player in January suggests a change. I guess it is possible that he is willing to settle for just staying up this season and then investing again in the summer, when prices are less inflated, more good players are out of contract and we can give the illusion, at least) of not being quite so much of a basket case of a club. In other words, to progress very, very slowly year by year and looking for the development and sale of young stars like Joe Gomez to cover the return on his investment to some degree. That would at least be an understandable strategy, albeit a frustrating one.

Personally, even if he does have this workable yet tedious strategy in mind, I've had enough of the network approach - expressed simply as recycling coaches and players already on the payroll, looking solely for cheap Euro bargains, running the club on an ill-prepared amateurish basis and not giving a damn about the supporters.

I doubt very much that RD is looking to sell. I think that he has an ego considerably larger than his native country and wouldn't want to be seen to fail. If there is an offer that gives him his investment back, plus a premium, he might just go for it, being a business man - but I suspect a key ingredient of any offer would be, as reportedly with the Josh Harris interest, a move to the peninsular.

If so, as I recently said on another thread, we might be faced with a difficult choice: given equal solvency, would you prefer to stick with the Valley and Roland's model of running the club, or have a new owner who will invest in the team at the price of a move away from the Valley. It would be a tough call either way, so everyone ought to be prepared for that.

I'm not familiar with it, but what options do we have around developing the Valley. Can we get more capacity, are we maxed out?

Davo55

cabbles said:

Davo55 said:

The fact that RD was willing to invest in the infrastructure, shell out relatively big money on Delort in the summer, and that fees were paid (sadly) for the likes of Polish Pete back then made me think that he was willing to invest enough to at least make us highly competitive in this league - not on a Bournemouth or Derby type scale, but let's say with the likes of Boro.

His obvious unwillingness to compete in either the transfer or wage market for the right level of player in January suggests a change. I guess it is possible that he is willing to settle for just staying up this season and then investing again in the summer, when prices are less inflated, more good players are out of contract and we can give the illusion, at least) of not being quite so much of a basket case of a club. In other words, to progress very, very slowly year by year and looking for the development and sale of young stars like Joe Gomez to cover the return on his investment to some degree. That would at least be an understandable strategy, albeit a frustrating one.

Personally, even if he does have this workable yet tedious strategy in mind, I've had enough of the network approach - expressed simply as recycling coaches and players already on the payroll, looking solely for cheap Euro bargains, running the club on an ill-prepared amateurish basis and not giving a damn about the supporters.

I doubt very much that RD is looking to sell. I think that he has an ego considerably larger than his native country and wouldn't want to be seen to fail. If there is an offer that gives him his investment back, plus a premium, he might just go for it, being a business man - but I suspect a key ingredient of any offer would be, as reportedly with the Josh Harris interest, a move to the peninsular.

If so, as I recently said on another thread, we might be faced with a difficult choice: given equal solvency, would you prefer to stick with the Valley and Roland's model of running the club, or have a new owner who will invest in the team at the price of a move away from the Valley. It would be a tough call either way, so everyone ought to be prepared for that.

I'm not familiar with it, but what options do we have around developing the Valley. Can we get more capacity, are we maxed out?

From what I have seen on here in the past, some land was sold which would make development of the Valley problematical. Airman knows the details, I believe.

cabbles

Davo55 said:

cabbles said:

Davo55 said:

The fact that RD was willing to invest in the infrastructure, shell out relatively big money on Delort in the summer, and that fees were paid (sadly) for the likes of Polish Pete back then made me think that he was willing to invest enough to at least make us highly competitive in this league - not on a Bournemouth or Derby type scale, but let's say with the likes of Boro.

His obvious unwillingness to compete in either the transfer or wage market for the right level of player in January suggests a change. I guess it is possible that he is willing to settle for just staying up this season and then investing again in the summer, when prices are less inflated, more good players are out of contract and we can give the illusion, at least) of not being quite so much of a basket case of a club. In other words, to progress very, very slowly year by year and looking for the development and sale of young stars like Joe Gomez to cover the return on his investment to some degree. That would at least be an understandable strategy, albeit a frustrating one.

Personally, even if he does have this workable yet tedious strategy in mind, I've had enough of the network approach - expressed simply as recycling coaches and players already on the payroll, looking solely for cheap Euro bargains, running the club on an ill-prepared amateurish basis and not giving a damn about the supporters.

I doubt very much that RD is looking to sell. I think that he has an ego considerably larger than his native country and wouldn't want to be seen to fail. If there is an offer that gives him his investment back, plus a premium, he might just go for it, being a business man - but I suspect a key ingredient of any offer would be, as reportedly with the Josh Harris interest, a move to the peninsular.

If so, as I recently said on another thread, we might be faced with a difficult choice: given equal solvency, would you prefer to stick with the Valley and Roland's model of running the club, or have a new owner who will invest in the team at the price of a move away from the Valley. It would be a tough call either way, so everyone ought to be prepared for that.

I'm not familiar with it, but what options do we have around developing the Valley. Can we get more capacity, are we maxed out?

From what I have seen on here in the past, some land was sold which would make development of the Valley problematical. Airman knows the details, I believe.

Okay thanks. I mean looking at it without knowing any technical, building or construction knowledge, you would say the North can't go much further back otherwise it will be on the road. The west looks okay but you would lose the car park, I'm not sure about the south or the east as I haven't been round there in years.

But then I'm probably looking at it too simply just by thinking each area has space etc. I'm sure it doesn't work like that

Dazzler21

m2 said:

Where do we go from here?

Pub.

nth_london_addick

Dazzler21 said:

m2 said:

Where do we go from here?

Pub.

In it already in Milan, peroni tastes good certainly helps

MountsfieldPark

Dazzler21 said:

m2 said:

Where do we go from here?

Pub.

Burton Albion.

PL54

m2 said:

Where do we go from here?

Round and round in circles ?

MrLargo

cabbles said:

Davo55 said:

cabbles said:

Davo55 said:

The fact that RD was willing to invest in the infrastructure, shell out relatively big money on Delort in the summer, and that fees were paid (sadly) for the likes of Polish Pete back then made me think that he was willing to invest enough to at least make us highly competitive in this league - not on a Bournemouth or Derby type scale, but let's say with the likes of Boro.

His obvious unwillingness to compete in either the transfer or wage market for the right level of player in January suggests a change. I guess it is possible that he is willing to settle for just staying up this season and then investing again in the summer, when prices are less inflated, more good players are out of contract and we can give the illusion, at least) of not being quite so much of a basket case of a club. In other words, to progress very, very slowly year by year and looking for the development and sale of young stars like Joe Gomez to cover the return on his investment to some degree. That would at least be an understandable strategy, albeit a frustrating one.

Personally, even if he does have this workable yet tedious strategy in mind, I've had enough of the network approach - expressed simply as recycling coaches and players already on the payroll, looking solely for cheap Euro bargains, running the club on an ill-prepared amateurish basis and not giving a damn about the supporters.

I doubt very much that RD is looking to sell. I think that he has an ego considerably larger than his native country and wouldn't want to be seen to fail. If there is an offer that gives him his investment back, plus a premium, he might just go for it, being a business man - but I suspect a key ingredient of any offer would be, as reportedly with the Josh Harris interest, a move to the peninsular.

If so, as I recently said on another thread, we might be faced with a difficult choice: given equal solvency, would you prefer to stick with the Valley and Roland's model of running the club, or have a new owner who will invest in the team at the price of a move away from the Valley. It would be a tough call either way, so everyone ought to be prepared for that.

I'm not familiar with it, but what options do we have around developing the Valley. Can we get more capacity, are we maxed out?

From what I have seen on here in the past, some land was sold which would make development of the Valley problematical. Airman knows the details, I believe.

Okay thanks. I mean looking at it without knowing any technical, building or construction knowledge, you would say the North can't go much further back otherwise it will be on the road. The west looks okay but you would lose the car park, I'm not sure about the south or the east as I haven't been round there in years.

But then I'm probably looking at it too simply just by thinking each area has space etc. I'm sure it doesn't work like that

We had planning permission for (I think) an extra tier on the East Stand and the redevelopment of the South end of the ground to include a 3-tiered Jimmy Seed Stand and the SW and SE corners filled in. Think it was something like that, looked pretty impressive on the plans that were published, and would have taken the capacity up to 40,000.

Don't know the details of what happened under Michael and Tony, but I think they sold some land behind the ground which now makes those plans unfeasible. Sure someone else can fill in the gaps/correct my mistakes.

soapy_jones

The 40,000 scenario (oh those heady days!!) was for an upgrade of the corporate box facilities in the East first, minimal capacity increase with no more than eight(?) extra rows of seating at the top leading to enhanced executive boxes. The height of the East is determined by the neighbours of course, who rather surprisingly never noticed the big red football stadium when they bought their houses. The new South Stand (with quadrants al a North) would of been next when required. I think the selling of the land talked about has put the kybosh on any of this, due to access now being fundamentally restricted. After that a third tier on the South would of brought us up to circa 40,000 capacity, making sense of course because in the Prem would could of given the likes of Manure etc 10,000 away seats segregated as the exiting JS is now.

Pie in the sky now of course. I reckon we will be playing on Woolwich Common in 10 years anyway!

cabbles

soapy_jones said:

The 40,000 scenario (oh those heady days!!) was for an upgrade of the corporate box facilities in the East first, minimal capacity increase with no more than eight(?) extra rows of seating at the top leading to enhanced executive boxes. The height of the East is determined by the neighbours of course, who rather surprisingly never noticed the big red football stadium when they bought their houses. The new South Stand (with quadrants al a North) would of been next when required. I think the selling of the land talked about has put the kybosh on any of this, due to access now being fundamentally restricted. After that a third tier on the South would of brought us up to circa 40,000 capacity, making sense of course because in the Prem would could of given the likes of Manure etc 10,000 away seats segregated as the exiting JS is now.

Pie in the sky now of course. I reckon we will be playing on Woolwich Common in 10 years anyway!

I reckon in 10 years, us, Alcorkers, Standard Liege, Upjest, St Trinians & Carl Ipcress Jena will be amalgamated into one team called Network Power Rangers. We will play in Roland's back garden in Belgium. Katrien will negotiate a tv deal that entitles the fans of each team that makes up the Network Power Rangers to watch a beam back in their respective grounds. Except that the Valley would've been sold long ago, so all that will remain is an artificial concrete statue of Roland that plastic seats (new plastic seats) will be placed on, so we can watch the screen. The food at the statue or mound of Roland will be excellent, and the whole match day experience will make the loss of our club into the Network Power Rangers, that bit more bearable.

Charlton Life would've since long perished and digital archives will be stored in the Charlton Museum, which will be located under Roland's left nostril on the statue/mound.