I've no idea whether I was singing it or not. Possibly.
But I know that today was one of the most demoralising trips I've ever made to The Valley. That had we held on for the win it would have been possibly the most unenjoyable victories I've ever seen at the Valley.
No one is enjoying their football. Not the 1500 who participate on here, the 12,000 still doing the trip out of habit.
Within 10 seconds a Charlton crowd was elated to see a forward coming on, then to go to pure disgust to see him replacing the man who we wanted to see him partner.
Igor's reaction to being substituted was enough said for mine.
priceless comment from a CEO of a club with paying customers, ( I think that's what the corporate departments call us these days).
Since the abolition of the fans director and disappearance of the shares the ownership of CAFC has become more and more concentrated. Whatever people said about Jiminez and Slater, they had to negotiate with: 1) Richard Murray who guaranteed the overdraft 2) the bank who were owed £5m on the mortgage for the North upper 3) the ex directors (including Murray) who are owed £10m payable on returning to the FAPL. These people are senior debt holders and can block the transfer of equity or raising new capital which would put them down the pecking order. Believe it or not the old board was accountable - that is to a variety of knowledgeable creditors I have described. Duchatelet isn't because he owns the club outright and can pay off the last £1m on the mortgage whenever he wants. And that statement sums it up. "He does what he wants".
He either lacks the insight, humility and/or football intelligence to realise that he needs a director of football across the network to communicate and execute football strategy. In short he has taken on four (or six) clubs and he doesn't have a scooby!
He won't get Liege relegated but he's taking us down!
Started off well and new young talent arrived last summer but there has been a complete failure to follow up to keep momentum going.
Statements like the above and the "interview on the train" together with the supposed shortlisting have revealed in a fairly stark and cruel way what some have known for quite a while.
Namely that Katrien Meire is a puppet and is basically in charge of contracts and administration. You cannot hope to succeed in such a competitive league without leadership, technically competent football management AND someone looking out for the interests of CAFC.
We need serious attacking talent to arrive yesterday not a graduate administrator telling us we have to accept how the club is run. Is she serious in suggesting we should cheer on Lepoint and a 1-1 draw vs Rotherham FFS? No wins in ten? One goal in five? Random signings this window in and out with no explanation about the vision and strategy incl
No, Ms Meire, you need to recognise that your boss has serious cash and knows how to put up buildings plus he can hire and fire a coach. But he knows sweet FA about building a competitive squad in this league and is either too afraid and or too arrogant to put someone in charge with the gravitas and technical competence to build a winning team. Riga did it and was replaced. Says it all.
Vetokele was having a shocking game and his substitution was not at all surprising. On that basis, the chanting was extremely harsh and wholly unjustified. The difficulty, however, is that whilst the substitution was the catalyst for it, the truth of the matter is that Luzon has practically no goodwill because of the circumstances of his appointment and the increasing hostility towards the Duchatelet regime. Supporters are very frustrated - the more so having watched over an hour of today's spineless crap - and it's human nature to look for a scapegoat. We can certainly expect it to turn very ugly if we continue our slide down the table.
The Lepoint substitution at least had some comedy value but the final one - replacing a forward with another defender and inviting Rotherham onto us - bordered on the idiotic.
We all hope that Luzon can pull this group together, encourage them to perform as a team and instil a bit of fight and desire. At the moment, they look completely fractured and my impression is that a number of these players are either already eyeing the exit door or don't expect Luzon to be in charge for very long. They may well be right on that score, as he is totally expendable.
Something is certainly rotten in the state of Denmark. So far as the team is concerned, I fear that the lack of unity and desire in the side could well prove fatal in a relegation scrap.
A disgrace I thought reading it on Match thread i couldnt go because I was assaulted last night police meeting etc today! But some are slagging off players and the now a new manager is getting it in the neck two games two draws( unbeaten ) lets see what the transfer deadline brings us!
A disgrace I thought reading it on Match thread i couldnt go because I was assaulted last night police meeting etc today! But some are slagging off players and the now a new manager is getting it in the neck two games two draws( unbeaten ) lets see what the transfer deadline brings us!
You seem far to pleased to me that we managed a draw with one of the worst sides in the division.
priceless comment from a CEO of a club with paying customers, ( I think that's what the corporate departments call us these days).
Since the abolition of the fans director and disappearance of the shares the ownership of CAFC has become more and more concentrated. Whatever people said about Jiminez and Slater, they had to negotiate with: 1) Richard Murray who guaranteed the overdraft 2) the bank who were owed £5m on the mortgage for the North upper 3) the ex directors (including Murray) who are owed £10m payable on returning to the FAPL. These people are senior debt holders and can block the transfer of equity or raising new capital which would put them down the pecking order. Believe it or not the old board was accountable - that is to a variety of knowledgeable creditors I have described. Duchatelet isn't because he owns the club outright and can pay off the last £1m on the mortgage whenever he wants. And that statement sums it up. "He does what he wants".
He either lacks the insight, humility and/or football intelligence to realise that he needs a director of football across the network to communicate and execute football strategy. In short he has taken on four (or six) clubs and he doesn't have a scooby!
He won't get Liege relegated but he's taking us down!
Started off well and new young talent arrived last summer but there has been a complete failure to follow up to keep momentum going.
Statements like the above and the "interview on the train" together with the supposed shortlisting have revealed in a fairly stark and cruel way what some have known for quite a while.
Namely that Katrien Meire is a puppet and is basically in charge of contracts and administration. You cannot hope to succeed in such a competitive league without leadership, technically competent football management AND someone looking out for the interests of CAFC.
We need serious attacking talent to arrive yesterday not a graduate administrator telling us we have to accept how the club is run. Is she serious in suggesting we should cheer on Lepoint and a 1-1 draw vs Rotherham FFS? No wins in ten? One goal in five? Random signings this window in and out with no explanation about the vision and strategy incl
No, Ms Meire, you need to recognise that your boss has serious cash and knows how to put up buildings plus he can hire and fire a coach. But he knows sweet FA about building a competitive squad in this league and is either too afraid and or too arrogant to put someone in charge with the gravitas and technical competence to build a winning team. Riga did it and was replaced. Says it all.
priceless comment from a CEO of a club with paying customers, ( I think that's what the corporate departments call us these days).
Since the abolition of the fans director and disappearance of the shares the ownership of CAFC has become more and more concentrated. Whatever people said about Jiminez and Slater, they had to negotiate with: 1) Richard Murray who guaranteed the overdraft 2) the bank who were owed £5m on the mortgage for the North upper 3) the ex directors (including Murray) who are owed £10m payable on returning to the FAPL. These people are senior debt holders and can block the transfer of equity or raising new capital which would put them down the pecking order. Believe it or not the old board was accountable - that is to a variety of knowledgeable creditors I have described. Duchatelet isn't because he owns the club outright and can pay off the last £1m on the mortgage whenever he wants. And that statement sums it up. "He does what he wants".
He either lacks the insight, humility and/or football intelligence to realise that he needs a director of football across the network to communicate and execute football strategy. In short he has taken on four (or six) clubs and he doesn't have a scooby!
He won't get Liege relegated but he's taking us down!
Started off well and new young talent arrived last summer but there has been a complete failure to follow up to keep momentum going.
Statements like the above and the "interview on the train" together with the supposed shortlisting have revealed in a fairly stark and cruel way what some have known for quite a while.
Namely that Katrien Meire is a puppet and is basically in charge of contracts and administration. You cannot hope to succeed in such a competitive league without leadership, technically competent football management AND someone looking out for the interests of CAFC.
We need serious attacking talent to arrive yesterday not a graduate administrator telling us we have to accept how the club is run. Is she serious in suggesting we should cheer on Lepoint and a 1-1 draw vs Rotherham FFS? No wins in ten? One goal in five? Random signings this window in and out with no explanation about the vision and strategy incl
No, Ms Meire, you need to recognise that your boss has serious cash and knows how to put up buildings plus he can hire and fire a coach. But he knows sweet FA about building a competitive squad in this league and is either too afraid and or too arrogant to put someone in charge with the gravitas and technical competence to build a winning team. Riga did it and was replaced. Says it all.
Oh dear i thought you supported the new Owners ideas.never mind, looks like we might have a bumpy ride a-head.
The same old on here will tell you, you can't be critical of the team. We were a shower of shit. The team look un interested. Play was so slow it was laughable, let alone predictable...and we're to believe Luzon i the sun.... Not my charlton anymore. I'm done this year. Piss off RD, KM and GL......what a bunch of tossers!
The same old on here will tell you, you can't be critical of the team. We were a shower of shit. The team look un interested. Play was so slow it was laughable, let alone predictable...and we're to believe Luzon i the sun.... Not my charlton anymore. I'm done this year. Piss off RD, KM and GL......what a bunch of tossers!
I don't know whether or not this is aimed at me, however I completely agree you can be critical of the team. I would be the first person to say the team gave no effort vs Watford. However, there's a difference between being critical and not backing the team.
IN the past to years I've been to see Roma play and Hertya BSC. Both teams were under the cosh (Toma were two down And down to 10 men), yet they didn't stop supporting the team and getting behind them.
Unfortunately, I can't say English football fans so this.
I don't see Luzon and the real problem that we have. If anything, he is a symptom not the cause. The real problem lies with having an owner who doesn't understand the club and who has had the rug pulled out from under his feet, rendering any money-spinning plans nigh on impossible. Having said that, I'm still not quite sure what to make of the owner. My opinion swings from seeing him as some sort of evil genius intent on the annihilation of or club and everything it represents to being a rather sad old man living on past glories and a huge fortune. A man whose early successes in life and unfeasibly large stockpiles have given him the sort or arrogance rarely encountered in normal people. An arrogance that says he need listen to nobody; not the people who work for him, not the experts in the industry and least of all his "customers". An arrogance that says he need never test his products first hand. An arrogance that says component 'c' will fit into slot 'x' regardless of its incompatibility. An arrogance that necessitates the setting up of a puppet regime where subservient sycophants are ever-ready to put his spin on things or, more likely, just deny there is anything to say.
If he is an evil genius then, as much as I oppose his aims, I still feel an urge to tip my hat and say "well done Mr Evil - you certainly seem to know what you're doing, dragging our club down like this". But, in reality, I don't think I really believe this version of events. If he was really some letter day Arthur Foggan, it seems hard to believe that he'd have spent all that money on lush green turf and shiny red seats. And surely the plans to develop Sparrows Lane would have been plans to develop the Greenwich Peninsular or some other brownfield gulag. It seems more likely that he is incompetent meddler than an evil genius. A rich man with an aim of proving something by making one or more football clubs into a success. Some state quite unequivocally that his aim is to make money. But I'm not even convinced of that, either. He must realise that very few manage this, and that those that do have never gone about it in the weird identikit club way that he is trying. No, I think he's just a sexagenarian tycoon playing his very own version of FIFA 2015 and failing in the most miserable fashion imaginable. A figure more to be pitied than hated.
As for Luzon, I don't really see how anyone can expect a new manager to come in to a club that has a demoralised, under-performing, short-staffed team and turn things around just like that. Especially a club where there is a complete and total disconnect between the leadership, the team and the fans. Judging him now would be completely unfair. Mr Luzon will get my support for six months whilst I decide on his competence to be our manager. That's if he's still here in six months.
Really sad thing is that the current owner's running of the club, on and off the field, has supporters turning on the team and each other. Agree that we have to support the club through thick and thin (and there's been a lot of thin in the past) but still people have a right to show their frustration. Luzon's problem is that he is perceived by a lot of fans as no more than an unsuitable puppet. If he can turn the club round then he will win the fans round, but he is not going to have the luxury of a honeymoon period.
A serious question is 'why do we play better away Than at home?'
I believe the atmosphere is becoming more and more poisonous at the Valley.
Last week we were feeling a sense of pride as we drew away to Watford without conceding, people lay off Luzon a bit. One week later we draw at home and people are chanting to get him out as he doesn't have a clue, I am baffled. The same people who would criticise another club for a quick managerial sacking.
Look at the reaction on social media when we sign a player 'oh another Belgian' or 'Oh he doesnt have champ experience'. We need players and those who are pi55ed off with RD don't want to give them a chance.
Everyone wants success and we have a regime which is trying a different way to bring it, rather than throw money at it. We are trying to be sensible financially, is this regime worse than administration?
I understand that people pay their money and people can do what they want, that's fine. But give them a chance ffs. A guy makes his debut as a sub, plays 15 minutes and you got people saying he is crap, whats worse is i'm not even surprised.
We give players no chance any more because they aren't the players we wanted. We want to judge a manager before they have shown what they can do. The place stinks of negativity and if you think that doesn't have an impact on players, sorry but you are wrong.
We get a point and the best answer we come up with to get the performances is to boycott The Valley.
Within 10 seconds a Charlton crowd was elated to see a forward coming on, then to go to pure disgust to see him replacing the man who we wanted to see him partner.
Igor's reaction to being substituted was enough said for mine.
Agree with this. Igor obviously didn't want to go off. I also think the ref missed a lot of the cynical pushing, pulling and tripping whenever he got the ball.
The same old on here will tell you, you can't be critical of the team. We were a shower of shit. The team look un interested. Play was so slow it was laughable, let alone predictable...and we're to believe Luzon i the sun.... Not my charlton anymore. I'm done this year. Piss off RD, KM and GL......what a bunch of tossers!
I don't know whether or not this is aimed at me, however I completely agree you can be critical of the team. I would be the first person to say the team gave no effort vs Watford. However, there's a difference between being critical and not backing the team.
IN the past to years I've been to see Roma play and Hertya BSC. Both teams were under the cosh (Toma were two down And down to 10 men), yet they didn't stop supporting the team and getting behind them.
Unfortunately, I can't say English football fans so this.
I've seen Charlton fans back the team in similar situations lots of times and there will be many English clubs where the same holds true today.
The difference now at Charlton (and unfortunately for a few years past) is the perception of what a fan is and how they are engaged by the club. Treat them like standard customers and they will behave as such, if I'd been served the culinary equivalent of yesterday's match in a restaurant then I'd have been telling the chef that he didn't know what he was doing and it'd be my last visit there. If it was my family's restaurant then I'd probably be more supportive.
Owners can't have the 'it's a business, you're just paying customers, my way or the highway' attitude on the one hand and expect unconditional support on the other. I can only speak for myself but my affinity for the club has been continually chipped away at over the last few years and watching it used as an experiment/plaything/refuge for second rate footballers that couldn't cut it in Belgium, is difficult, supporting it unconditionally is impossible.
I didn't join in with the chant but as someone else said, more through apathy than anything.
Nothing wrong with the subs imho. For the first sub, Vetokele was worse than Harriott. Taking off a knackered forward for a more defensive player for the last few minutes is any manager's right. It's not like it left us with no forward on the pitch.
We proved again that we're a poor side. That's not Luzon's fault. He has to find a way to stop the rot and good luck to him on that one.
if the only thing you both can complain about after watching that shower is the fans you need to look at yourselves
no effort, players walking around like it was a training match, I may not have been going 50 years like you masicat its a bit hard when I am only 24, but I am still a Charlton fan and that today was not my team.
Luzon looks very poor tactically. Woeful new corner routine... And once we had the lead, he takes off all the front players so the ball can only be at one end of the pitch, inviting crosses and pressure on the team (which we seem unable to cope with...). I think some of the players (Solly, Buyens, Bikey, Vetokele, etc) know he is awful/will not be around long, and really only went through the motions today. Sad/bad/mad day for CAFC.
His wife and little boy are nice so I hope he stays awhile.
There is literally no chance our team can look up to and respect Luzon. What kind of message does it send to the players when he takes off your top scorer and leaves a shit midfielder on upfront? Think that along with other things may have just confirmed their suspicions that he's in too deep
I have just watched the post match press conference on CAFC player. Indeed there may have been some genuine language issues going on in the press conference, but even given that it is utterly unconvincing. The only good thing was that Luzon kept using the term 'we' which I take to be a positive, the rest was...well try to judge for yourself and tell me if I missed good bits.
Comments
Luzon unfortunately is the face of the Roland regime and will have to deal with that.
The heart of the club has gone as far as I can see, can't imagine a situation where it can return.
This time last year I didn't plan on renewing out of anger / disgust. Now I just can't bring myself to care.
Perhaps it's not RD that has ruined the club, it's modern football, for me anyway.
I've no idea whether I was singing it or not. Possibly.
But I know that today was one of the most demoralising trips I've ever made to The Valley. That had we held on for the win it would have been possibly the most unenjoyable victories I've ever seen at the Valley.
No one is enjoying their football. Not the 1500 who participate on here, the 12,000 still doing the trip out of habit.
Igor's reaction to being substituted was enough said for mine.
1) Richard Murray who guaranteed the overdraft
2) the bank who were owed £5m on the mortgage for the North upper
3) the ex directors (including Murray) who are owed £10m payable on returning to the FAPL. These people are senior debt holders and can block the transfer of equity or raising new capital which would put them down the pecking order.
Believe it or not the old board was accountable - that is to a variety of knowledgeable creditors I have described. Duchatelet isn't because he owns the club outright and can pay off the last £1m on the mortgage whenever he wants. And that statement sums it up. "He does what he wants".
He either lacks the insight, humility and/or football intelligence to realise that he needs a director of football across the network to communicate and execute football strategy. In short he has taken on four (or six) clubs and he doesn't have a scooby!
He won't get Liege relegated but he's taking us down!
Started off well and new young talent arrived last summer but there has been a complete failure to follow up to keep momentum going.
Statements like the above and the "interview on the train" together with the supposed shortlisting have revealed in a fairly stark and cruel way what some have known for quite a while.
Namely that Katrien Meire is a puppet and is basically in charge of contracts and administration. You cannot hope to succeed in such a competitive league without leadership, technically competent football management AND someone looking out for the interests of CAFC.
We need serious attacking talent to arrive yesterday not a graduate administrator telling us we have to accept how the club is run. Is she serious in suggesting we should cheer on Lepoint and a 1-1 draw vs Rotherham FFS? No wins in ten? One goal in five? Random signings this window in and out with no explanation about the vision and strategy incl
No, Ms Meire, you need to recognise that your boss has serious cash and knows how to put up buildings plus he can hire and fire a coach. But he knows sweet FA about building a competitive squad in this league and is either too afraid and or too arrogant to put someone in charge with the gravitas and technical competence to build a winning team. Riga did it and was replaced. Says it all.
The Lepoint substitution at least had some comedy value but the final one - replacing a forward with another defender and inviting Rotherham onto us - bordered on the idiotic.
We all hope that Luzon can pull this group together, encourage them to perform as a team and instil a bit of fight and desire. At the moment, they look completely fractured and my impression is that a number of these players are either already eyeing the exit door or don't expect Luzon to be in charge for very long. They may well be right on that score, as he is totally expendable.
Something is certainly rotten in the state of Denmark. So far as the team is concerned, I fear that the lack of unity and desire in the side could well prove fatal in a relegation scrap.
IN the past to years I've been to see Roma play and Hertya BSC. Both teams were under the cosh (Toma were two down And down to 10 men), yet they didn't stop supporting the team and getting behind them.
Unfortunately, I can't say English football fans so this.
If he is an evil genius then, as much as I oppose his aims, I still feel an urge to tip my hat and say "well done Mr Evil - you certainly seem to know what you're doing, dragging our club down like this". But, in reality, I don't think I really believe this version of events. If he was really some letter day Arthur Foggan, it seems hard to believe that he'd have spent all that money on lush green turf and shiny red seats. And surely the plans to develop Sparrows Lane would have been plans to develop the Greenwich Peninsular or some other brownfield gulag. It seems more likely that he is incompetent meddler than an evil genius. A rich man with an aim of proving something by making one or more football clubs into a success. Some state quite unequivocally that his aim is to make money. But I'm not even convinced of that, either. He must realise that very few manage this, and that those that do have never gone about it in the weird identikit club way that he is trying. No, I think he's just a sexagenarian tycoon playing his very own version of FIFA 2015 and failing in the most miserable fashion imaginable. A figure more to be pitied than hated.
As for Luzon, I don't really see how anyone can expect a new manager to come in to a club that has a demoralised, under-performing, short-staffed team and turn things around just like that. Especially a club where there is a complete and total disconnect between the leadership, the team and the fans. Judging him now would be completely unfair. Mr Luzon will get my support for six months whilst I decide on his competence to be our manager. That's if he's still here in six months.
Last week we were feeling a sense of pride as we drew away to Watford without conceding, people lay off Luzon a bit. One week later we draw at home and people are chanting to get him out as he doesn't have a clue, I am baffled. The same people who would criticise another club for a quick managerial sacking.
Look at the reaction on social media when we sign a player 'oh another Belgian' or 'Oh he doesnt have champ experience'. We need players and those who are pi55ed off with RD don't want to give them a chance.
Everyone wants success and we have a regime which is trying a different way to bring it, rather than throw money at it. We are trying to be sensible financially, is this regime worse than administration?
I understand that people pay their money and people can do what they want, that's fine. But give them a chance ffs. A guy makes his debut as a sub, plays 15 minutes and you got people saying he is crap, whats worse is i'm not even surprised.
We give players no chance any more because they aren't the players we wanted. We want to judge a manager before they have shown what they can do. The place stinks of negativity and if you think that doesn't have an impact on players, sorry but you are wrong.
We get a point and the best answer we come up with to get the performances is to boycott The Valley.
Igor obviously didn't want to go off. I also think the ref missed a lot of the cynical pushing, pulling and tripping whenever he got the ball.
The difference now at Charlton (and unfortunately for a few years past) is the perception of what a fan is and how they are engaged by the club. Treat them like standard customers and they will behave as such, if I'd been served the culinary equivalent of yesterday's match in a restaurant then I'd have been telling the chef that he didn't know what he was doing and it'd be my last visit there. If it was my family's restaurant then I'd probably be more supportive.
Owners can't have the 'it's a business, you're just paying customers, my way or the highway' attitude on the one hand and expect unconditional support on the other. I can only speak for myself but my affinity for the club has been continually chipped away at over the last few years and watching it used as an experiment/plaything/refuge for second rate footballers that couldn't cut it in Belgium, is difficult, supporting it unconditionally is impossible.
I didn't join in with the chant but as someone else said, more through apathy than anything.
We proved again that we're a poor side. That's not Luzon's fault. He has to find a way to stop the rot and good luck to him on that one.
Depressing times.
The Wolves match was dull dull dull, nothing happened at all. The zorbs were the highlight.
Previous 3 matches before that
Watford 5-0
Ipswich 3-0
Blackburn 2-0
The only good thing was that Luzon kept using the term 'we' which I take to be a positive, the rest was...well try to judge for yourself and tell me if I missed good bits.
Terrible decisions and tactics from him today. Looks like an absolute div in the touch line.
Roland sell up, piss off and take Luzon and Meire with you. Bunch of clueless morons.