Those of us who feel the chants were unfair are not saying he does know what he's doing, were saying you didn't know he doesn't know what he's doing. Time will tell.
To be fair, they didn't know that they didn't know whether he knew what he was doing.
Those of us who feel the chants were unfair are not saying he does know what he's doing, were saying you didn't know he doesn't know what he's doing. Time will tell.
To be fair, they didn't know that they didn't know whether he knew what he was doing.
true ...but whether by default rather than by design it seems to have worked
There was a group in front of me today who tried several times to get Guy Luzon's Red and White Army going. Fair play to them.
I've said all along I'll judge him on results and performances. He had a bumpy start but has definitely got us more organised and playing at a better tempo.
The usual suspects immediately told us all that bad things were happening on the training pitches and the players didn't like him.
I'd say the players have gone up a level under him and I definitely wouldn't say there appears to be a lack of motivation.
Do they like him? Who cares, they don't have to like him, they just need to respect his coaching ideas and implement his game plan on the pitch.
Ultimately a large proportion of success in football is fuelled by confidence. Under Peters for whatever reason, confidence was rock bottom. Probably the lowest I've seen since Pardew left, slowly its crept back. Yesterday the players were buzzing and long may it continue.
As we know Jackson has pubilically praised Luzon, I doubt he is a yes man and suspect if he had nothing good to say would have kept quiet. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Luzon was initially viewed with trepidation, but through his own hard work and abilities has won the players over?
For a number on here he will always be the devil as he is RDs man. Posts saying I don't like him because he gets animated sum that view up. As do snidey comments from the chairman of the Trust.
At the moment he is well in credit and if we keep the squad together, add some depth and avoid injuries to key players I suspect the run in will be a good one and next season who knows?
I did say at the game that Powell must have been a bit rueful when he saw Luzon able to field Tony Watt and Igor Vetokele up front when he was lumbered with Simon Church and Marvin Sordell! On the other hand, he fell out with RD and neither of them would compromise, and he must have known there would only be one winner in a game of wills - the man who actually provides the money instead of just spending it will always come out on top.
Luzon is trusted by RD and will work the way that the Powers That Be want the manager, sorry, head coach to work. Luzon must have at least a part to play in the signing of Johnson, Diarra and Eagles - a trio of British-experienced veterans, exactly what we've been begging for. If it means RD finally landed on a coach he will actually engage with not dictate to we might just get the best out of the network.
I've maintained all along that the network is NOT inherently flawed, it's simply being used poorly, but for it to work we need an owner/CEO and coach/manager in synch so that it provides what is actually needed, NOT what the money-man THINKS is needed. If it had been Luzon not Powell insisting Kermorgant stayed, or at the very least was replaced with a proper target man not yet another small nippy striker to add to the umpteen small nippy strikers we already had, who knows, perhaps we would actually have got one. That's not to say Luzon is better than Powell, or vice versa - simply that RD might actually listen to a manager he likes/trusts. Conversely, if Luzon was to go to RD and say 'Network player x isn't up to it, we need non-network player y' then RD might not be so stubborn about insisting that network player MUST be good enough, his agent told me so.
At least at home play two bona fide strikers with two attacking wingers come midfielders and play to feet if you aren't going to have a tall man upfront. Well that's how you play in the championship if you want to try to win matches.
One of my better analogies was that Luzon felt our road rage after pulling out in front of us and we lets years of traffic jams and missed appointments get the better of us, even thou he was only to blame for say 1 incident.
Why would some one like me get so irate when i have a history of being loyal and supportive to players and managers, well at least longer than i gave Guy.
The quicker passing and to feet is what i have dreamed of watching for ever. Would still like the extra forward who is great in the air, when plan A doesn't work, even Man United do that with Felanni
The last two home games have shown that it can be a beautiful game and that we don't have to only win ugly.
4. He has sacked two under-performing managers (one of course a legend).
To what extent were those managers underperforming, and to what extent were they undermined?
The old conspiracy theory eh? Well by any measure the team was under performing when CP and BP were sacked. The rest is just gossip.
I have to disagree with the 'just gossip' point of view. Simply taking what Chris Powell has recently said, I believe he was undermined which was a sad state of affairs. Powell's interviews are relevant factors that rise above the level of gossip.
I was against the appointment of Luzon because I thought it was handled badly and in our position we needed somebody who knew the division. I did say that the fact it was handled badly, should not be held against him but I did fear that we had a new manager with no margin for error as fans were ready to turn much quicker than they would be otherwise. We saw this, but his selections and substitutions did reek of somebody who didn’t know the players and their attributes. Of course Luzon has shown himself to be a decent manager and good on him I say. Riga had to win us over and he has won us over. It might be a bit better if managers of our club didn’t have to win the fans over as soon as they come in, but that is a statement for the owner.
What Luzon has done , possibly through trial and error, is work out the most effective way to play. That is an attacking game and competing in the middle. It is perhaps fortunate that having Watt to call on has made this possible, but moving Cousins to the middle has been important too. Many of us have been calling for this for some time but we have had the benefit of watching us over a much longer period. I think the time is now, where we have to give the bloke full credit. We hadn’t won a game by more than one goal and now we have three three nils out of four. Derby was a problem as it was clear against the best team in the league playing three in midfield that a Buyens, Wilson central midfield wasn’t going to cut it, but his options were more limited then than they look now with Diarra getting match fit, so I’ll let him off.
The key to success is our front four, but they need to be fed/supported. As long as we can do that, and of course they stay fit, we are going to win a good number of games. But more than that, win them in entertaining ways. Something we have been a bit starved off in recent times.
4. He has sacked two under-performing managers (one of course a legend).
To what extent were those managers underperforming, and to what extent were they undermined?
The old conspiracy theory eh? Well by any measure the team was under performing when CP and BP were sacked. The rest is just gossip.
I have to disagree with the 'just gossip' point of view. Simply taking what Chris Powell has recently said, I believe he was undermined which was a sad state of affairs. Powell's interviews are relevant factors that rise above the level of gossip.
But surely just because Chris Powell said it, doesn't make it fact. Hes not gonna say 'I was crap at my job, we were bottom of the table, I am a tactical nobber, and don't have a clue what my best team is and if I was in charge I would have sacked me' is he?
4. He has sacked two under-performing managers (one of course a legend).
To what extent were those managers underperforming, and to what extent were they undermined?
The old conspiracy theory eh? Well by any measure the team was under performing when CP and BP were sacked. The rest is just gossip.
I have to disagree with the 'just gossip' point of view. Simply taking what Chris Powell has recently said, I believe he was undermined which was a sad state of affairs. Powell's interviews are relevant factors that rise above the level of gossip.
But surely just because Chris Powell said it, doesn't make it fact. Hes not gonna say 'I was crap at my job, we were bottom of the table, I am a tactical nobber, and don't have a clue what my best team is and if I was in charge I would have sacked me' is he?
The details are documented elsewhere, but the approach to managers, and the various denouement's from Mr Duchatelet, suggest that apparant support towards managers/coaches have been less than agreeable to all parties. Of course what Chris Powell says doesn't make it fact in your view, but it doesn't make it fiction either.
I did say at the game that Powell must have been a bit rueful when he saw Luzon able to field Tony Watt and Igor Vetokele up front when he was lumbered with Simon Church and Marvin Sordell! On the other hand, he fell out with RD and neither of them would compromise, and he must have known there would only be one winner in a game of wills - the man who actually provides the money instead of just spending it will always come out on top.
Luzon is trusted by RD and will work the way that the Powers That Be want the manager, sorry, head coach to work. Luzon must have at least a part to play in the signing of Johnson, Diarra and Eagles - a trio of British-experienced veterans, exactly what we've been begging for. If it means RD finally landed on a coach he will actually engage with not dictate to we might just get the best out of the network.
I've maintained all along that the network is NOT inherently flawed, it's simply being used poorly, but for it to work we need an owner/CEO and coach/manager in synch so that it provides what is actually needed, NOT what the money-man THINKS is needed. If it had been Luzon not Powell insisting Kermorgant stayed, or at the very least was replaced with a proper target man not yet another small nippy striker to add to the umpteen small nippy strikers we already had, who knows, perhaps we would actually have got one. That's not to say Luzon is better than Powell, or vice versa - simply that RD might actually listen to a manager he likes/trusts. Conversely, if Luzon was to go to RD and say 'Network player x isn't up to it, we need non-network player y' then RD might not be so stubborn about insisting that network player MUST be good enough, his agent told me so.
Why do you assume for a minute Luzon " must have at least a part to play in the signing of Johnson, Diarra and Eagles"?
I bet he had never heard of any of them and was just told they were coming.
What would be interesting to know is just who did finally realise that "a trio of British-experienced veterans" was what we did indeed need and who persuaded Uncle Roland to sign them.
I did say at the game that Powell must have been a bit rueful when he saw Luzon able to field Tony Watt and Igor Vetokele up front when he was lumbered with Simon Church and Marvin Sordell! On the other hand, he fell out with RD and neither of them would compromise, and he must have known there would only be one winner in a game of wills - the man who actually provides the money instead of just spending it will always come out on top.
Luzon is trusted by RD and will work the way that the Powers That Be want the manager, sorry, head coach to work. Luzon must have at least a part to play in the signing of Johnson, Diarra and Eagles - a trio of British-experienced veterans, exactly what we've been begging for. If it means RD finally landed on a coach he will actually engage with not dictate to we might just get the best out of the network.
I've maintained all along that the network is NOT inherently flawed, it's simply being used poorly, but for it to work we need an owner/CEO and coach/manager in synch so that it provides what is actually needed, NOT what the money-man THINKS is needed. If it had been Luzon not Powell insisting Kermorgant stayed, or at the very least was replaced with a proper target man not yet another small nippy striker to add to the umpteen small nippy strikers we already had, who knows, perhaps we would actually have got one. That's not to say Luzon is better than Powell, or vice versa - simply that RD might actually listen to a manager he likes/trusts. Conversely, if Luzon was to go to RD and say 'Network player x isn't up to it, we need non-network player y' then RD might not be so stubborn about insisting that network player MUST be good enough, his agent told me so.
Why do you assume for a minute Luzon " must have at least a part to play in the signing of Johnson, Diarra and Eagles"?
I bet he had never heard of any of them and was just told they were coming.
What would be interesting to know is just who did finally realise that "a trio of British-experienced veterans" was what we did indeed need and who persuaded Uncle Roland to sign them.
4. He has sacked two under-performing managers (one of course a legend).
To what extent were those managers underperforming, and to what extent were they undermined?
The old conspiracy theory eh? Well by any measure the team was under performing when CP and BP were sacked. The rest is just gossip.
I have to disagree with the 'just gossip' point of view. Simply taking what Chris Powell has recently said, I believe he was undermined which was a sad state of affairs. Powell's interviews are relevant factors that rise above the level of gossip.
But surely just because Chris Powell said it, doesn't make it fact. Hes not gonna say 'I was crap at my job, we were bottom of the table, I am a tactical nobber, and don't have a clue what my best team is and if I was in charge I would have sacked me' is he?
The details are documented elsewhere, but the approach to managers, and the various denouement's from Mr Duchatelet, suggest that apparant support towards managers/coaches have been less than agreeable to all parties. Of course what Chris Powell says doesn't make it fact in your view, but it doesn't make it fiction either.
I agree Seth, I do think that the truth lays somewhere in the middle......
Last season Powell was sacked and Jose Riga came in. People didn't agree with that appointment, but after a while everyone was signing his name and wanting him to stay.
I wonder how long it will take for us to do the same with Guy if the current performances and results continue.
Last season Powell was sacked and Jose Riga came in. People didn't agree with that appointment, but after a while everyone was signing his name and wanting him to stay.
I wonder how long it will take for us to do the same with Guy if the current performances and results continue.
I think a few tried to start up 'Gut Luzons Red Army' on Saturday
Last season Powell was sacked and Jose Riga came in. People didn't agree with that appointment, but after a while everyone was signing his name and wanting him to stay.
I wonder how long it will take for us to do the same with Guy if the current performances and results continue.
I think a few tried to start up 'Gut Luzons Red Army' on Saturday
Last season Powell was sacked and Jose Riga came in. People didn't agree with that appointment, but after a while everyone was signing his name and wanting him to stay.
I wonder how long it will take for us to do the same with Guy if the current performances and results continue.
I think a few tried to start up 'Gut Luzons Red Army' on Saturday
Be Fair, I know an army marches on it's Stomach !
But he no Steve Evans
It's all the squats he does, good cardio exercise apparently. Burns off a lot of calories over 90 or so minutes it would seem!
4. He has sacked two under-performing managers (one of course a legend).
To what extent were those managers underperforming, and to what extent were they undermined?
The old conspiracy theory eh? Well by any measure the team was under performing when CP and BP were sacked. The rest is just gossip.
I have to disagree with the 'just gossip' point of view. Simply taking what Chris Powell has recently said, I believe he was undermined which was a sad state of affairs. Powell's interviews are relevant factors that rise above the level of gossip.
OK. I am absolutely sure that CP believes what he claims went on. I have great respect for him so I am not suggesting he is deliberately misrepresenting but I wasn't there neither were you. Therefore it's gossip, opinion or hearsay.
It's perfectly possible to construct an opinion based on what he has shared that he was undermined. He may have been.
What is not in doubt was the team was under-performing because broadly the same team performed better after he left.
Time is yet out on Luzon. Recent performances in the main have been good. Arguably he has a stronger squad to pick from.
Last season Powell was sacked and Jose Riga came in. People didn't agree with that appointment, but after a while everyone was signing his name and wanting him to stay.
I wonder how long it will take for us to do the same with Guy if the current performances and results continue.
I think a few tried to start up 'Gut Luzons Red Army' on Saturday
If they had tried "Red and White Army" it might have caught on
Comments
Luzon is trusted by RD and will work the way that the Powers That Be want the
manager, sorry, head coach to work. Luzon must have at least a part to play in the signing of Johnson, Diarra and Eagles - a trio of British-experienced veterans, exactly what we've been begging for. If it means RD finally landed on a coach he will actually engage with not dictate to we might just get the best out of the network.I've maintained all along that the network is NOT inherently flawed, it's simply being used poorly, but for it to work we need an owner/CEO and coach/manager in synch so that it provides what is actually needed, NOT what the money-man THINKS is needed. If it had been Luzon not Powell insisting Kermorgant stayed, or at the very least was replaced with a proper target man not yet another small nippy striker to add to the umpteen small nippy strikers we already had, who knows, perhaps we would actually have got one. That's not to say Luzon is better than Powell, or vice versa - simply that RD might actually listen to a manager he likes/trusts. Conversely, if Luzon was to go to RD and say 'Network player x isn't up to it, we need non-network player y' then RD might not be so stubborn about insisting that network player MUST be good enough, his agent told me so.
At least at home play two bona fide strikers with two attacking wingers come midfielders and play to feet if you aren't going to have a tall man upfront. Well that's how you play in the championship if you want to try to win matches.
One of my better analogies was that Luzon felt our road rage after pulling out in front of us and we lets years of traffic jams and missed appointments get the better of us, even thou he was only to blame for say 1 incident.
Why would some one like me get so irate when i have a history of being loyal and supportive to players and managers, well at least longer than i gave Guy.
The quicker passing and to feet is what i have dreamed of watching for ever.
Would still like the extra forward who is great in the air, when plan A doesn't work, even Man United do that with Felanni
The last two home games have shown that it can be a beautiful game and that we don't have to only win ugly.
What Luzon has done , possibly through trial and error, is work out the most effective way to play. That is an attacking game and competing in the middle. It is perhaps fortunate that having Watt to call on has made this possible, but moving Cousins to the middle has been important too. Many of us have been calling for this for some time but we have had the benefit of watching us over a much longer period. I think the time is now, where we have to give the bloke full credit. We hadn’t won a game by more than one goal and now we have three three nils out of four. Derby was a problem as it was clear against the best team in the league playing three in midfield that a Buyens, Wilson central midfield wasn’t going to cut it, but his options were more limited then than they look now with Diarra getting match fit, so I’ll let him off.
The key to success is our front four, but they need to be fed/supported. As long as we can do that, and of course they stay fit, we are going to win a good number of games. But more than that, win them in entertaining ways. Something we have been a bit starved off in recent times.
Hes not gonna say 'I was crap at my job, we were bottom of the table, I am a tactical nobber, and don't have a clue what my best team is and if I was in charge I would have sacked me' is he?
I bet he had never heard of any of them and was just told they were coming.
What would be interesting to know is just who did finally realise that "a trio of British-experienced veterans" was what we did indeed need and who persuaded Uncle Roland to sign them.
I wonder how long it will take for us to do the same with Guy if the current performances and results continue.
But he no Steve Evans
It's perfectly possible to construct an opinion based on what he has shared that he was undermined. He may have been.
What is not in doubt was the team was under-performing because broadly the same team performed better after he left.
Time is yet out on Luzon. Recent performances in the main have been good. Arguably he has a stronger squad to pick from.
Luck plays it's part as well
Hopefully it'll have a record number of LOLs come 9.30ish tonight...