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So, in answer to the question.....

"Do we need players with Championship experience?"

I think Roland is giving that one a big fat 'huh'

«1

Comments

  • bobmunro said:

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    Couldn't agree more bob.
  • bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    100% agree with this.

    If they are good enough then I don't care what league they have been playing in. Let's face it all of our current squad have more experience in the Championship than a player who has played in Europe all their career, does it mean the European player wouldn't do a better job?
  • bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    Agree with this. Same goes for managers. If they're good enough it doesn't matter. It's just harder to judge if they'll be good enough if they've never played/managed in this league or country before.
  • You really don't like RD do you AFKA.
    Lots of threads, similar theme.
    Still romancing back to the Slater/Jimenez regime.
  • "Do we need players with Championship experience?"

    I think Roland is giving that one a big fat 'huh'

    Yes of course. I have been saying that all season but M Roly wants to do it his way and we have to "like it or lump it" (Copyright: KM), but if we can the get type of players that Watford have at their disposal then we would not be in the position we are now in. Sadly we are picking up people like Nego, Reza, Polish Pete, Flappy Bill Thuram, instead of the likes of Vydra, Ighalo, Foresterri.
  • I think we need experience, but not necessarily champ experience in every case. Lepoint seems like an older head who at 6'2" and 30 should know how to dish it out.

    As long as they arent network cast offs or unproven youngsters at this stage they will do.

    Still would like a 25-30 y/o lump of a striker who has played in a tough battling league (pref champ!) but no problem with this guy per say
  • You really don't like RD do you AFKA.
    Lots of threads, similar theme.
    Still romancing back to the Slater/Jimenez regime.

    What's to like? It's been f%cking awful on and off the pitch since he took over.
  • Signing a player with substantial Championship experience should mean that he can slot in fairly seamlessly, knows his job and how physically demanding the division is.


    Logically, if he was a valuable player at his current club he'd be indispensible and a 1st team regular.
    He'd be under contract and his club wouldn't want to let him go.

    Unlikely, but unless we're willing to throw big bucks in transfer fees (and wages).......the kind of Champs player available is either going to be a 'has been' or a 'never quite made it' or wrecked by injuries.

    We've seen too many of those in recent times.
    And Uncle Roly no doubt believes that better value or even better players are available outside of the UK.

    You can kind of see his point.

  • bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    We could also reel off a long list of players who haven't been able to adapt here. What's that saying, once burnt, twice shy? Roland keeps burning himself.
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  • RedPanda said:

    bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    We could also reel off a long list of players who haven't been able to adapt here. What's that saying, once burnt, twice shy? Roland keeps burning himself.
    I think you're missing the point.
  • edited January 2015
    MrLargo said:

    You really don't like RD do you AFKA.
    Lots of threads, similar theme.
    Still romancing back to the Slater/Jimenez regime.

    What's to like? It's been f%cking awful on and off the pitch since he took over.
    yeah.
    image
  • colthe3rd said:

    RedPanda said:

    bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    We could also reel off a long list of players who haven't been able to adapt here. What's that saying, once burnt, twice shy? Roland keeps burning himself.
    I think you're missing the point.
    That they don't need experience here if they're good enough? I just pointed out that quality abroad doesn't always translate well here, for every Diego Costa there is an Afonso Alves.

    Buying domestically (I think) is less risky but is admittedly more expensive. Ideally we need to find a balance between the two, what that balance is depends entirely on one's opinion.
  • bobmunro said:



    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    How so, in your opinion, may I ask? And obviously RD's scouting team are unable to do this.

    And in regards to your first part, I don't think when people bring up the point they mean point blank Championship experience, experience either side league-wise would be viable, but of course every player is different and every scenario is different - a journeyman in England is probably a safer bet than one from elsewhere but then safer doesn't necessarily mean a better bet, but at times this season it'd be nice not to be relying on these risks such as untested keepers and be nice to have someone like Button or Hamer back or of their calibre, who do have the experience.

    Roland has his ways and it doesn't involve English players except playing our youngsters and shipping them off for cash, that's fair enough, but it's all a big risk and taking risks in this league costs you, steady stability in the squad and gradual building is what get's you out of the league, we are the polar opposite of that
  • MrLargo said:

    MrLargo said:

    You really don't like RD do you AFKA.
    Lots of threads, similar theme.
    Still romancing back to the Slater/Jimenez regime.

    What's to like? It's been f%cking awful on and off the pitch since he took over.
    yeah.
    image
    Ooh, ooh, I forgot the new pitch and the new plastic seats, and the East Street Burgers. Yeah you're right, it's been fantastic and I have particularly enjoyed the last 3 months - ok, so the team hasn't won a home game in all that time, but the grass is looking so lush that I'm thinking of bringing my pet cow to the next game to do a bit of grazing.

    Do you actually go to any matches?
    It has been a shit 3 months, but during the first 3 were you not even a tad excited? We were moving in the right direction. RD has made some shambolic decisions granted, but the end of the Jiminez era wasn't exactly rosy. We're in a half decent position here, we have a team that can still battle in this league once their confidence has turned, we aren't in financial difficulty, we've got plans for a quality youth set-up, we have a network that allows us to bring players in and not break the bank. There are some big positives in there!

    If we want to spend millions, get English managers in, get these experienced players in..............go support Pompey or Leeds. Look at the state of them, chucking money down the drain, employing the same type of shitty english manager who drags them down. We're on a learning curve here, let's stick it out and see what happens. It'll be a bumpy ride.
  • RedPanda said:

    colthe3rd said:

    RedPanda said:

    bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    We could also reel off a long list of players who haven't been able to adapt here. What's that saying, once burnt, twice shy? Roland keeps burning himself.
    I think you're missing the point.
    That they don't need experience here if they're good enough? I just pointed out that quality abroad doesn't always translate well here, for every Diego Costa there is an Afonso Alves.

    Buying domestically (I think) is less risky but is admittedly more expensive. Ideally we need to find a balance between the two, what that balance is depends entirely on one's opinion.
    And likewise signing a player who has played in the Championship doesn't mean they will be a success.

    Every signing is a gamble, some work out better than others.
  • edited January 2015
    MrLargo said:

    MrLargo said:

    You really don't like RD do you AFKA.
    Lots of threads, similar theme.
    Still romancing back to the Slater/Jimenez regime.

    What's to like? It's been f%cking awful on and off the pitch since he took over.
    yeah.
    image
    Ooh, ooh, I forgot the new pitch and the new plastic seats, and the East Street Burgers. Yeah you're right, it's been fantastic and I have particularly enjoyed the last 3 months - ok, so the team hasn't won a home game in all that time, but the grass is looking so lush that I'm thinking of bringing my pet cow to the next game to do a bit of grazing.

    Do you actually go to any matches?
    You must have Ovaries?

    Because that's an ovarieaction!

    :wink:

    Just kidding, things haven't been Stellar and we should have kept Riga instead we now are struggling, but Boring Bob Peeters is gone and we have Lucky Luzon in charge... give the man a chance.
  • All well and good saying "if they're good enough in Europe then they don't need Championship experience".

    Evidence so far suggests that the sort of players we bring in from abroad rarely are good enough.
  • MrLargo said:

    MrLargo said:

    You really don't like RD do you AFKA.
    Lots of threads, similar theme.
    Still romancing back to the Slater/Jimenez regime.

    What's to like? It's been f%cking awful on and off the pitch since he took over.
    yeah.
    image
    Ooh, ooh, I forgot the new pitch and the new plastic seats, and the East Street Burgers. Yeah you're right, it's been fantastic and I have particularly enjoyed the last 3 months - ok, so the team hasn't won a home game in all that time, but the grass is looking so lush that I'm thinking of bringing my pet cow to the next game to do a bit of grazing.

    Do you actually go to any matches?
    It has been a shit 3 months, but during the first 3 were you not even a tad excited? We were moving in the right direction. RD has made some shambolic decisions granted, but the end of the Jiminez era wasn't exactly rosy. We're in a half decent position here, we have a team that can still battle in this league once their confidence has turned, we aren't in financial difficulty, we've got plans for a quality youth set-up, we have a network that allows us to bring players in and not break the bank. There are some big positives in there!

    If we want to spend millions, get English managers in, get these experienced players in..............go support Pompey or Leeds. Look at the state of them, chucking money down the drain, employing the same type of shitty english manager who drags them down. We're on a learning curve here, let's stick it out and see what happens. It'll be a bumpy ride.
    I love you Hamer time... Not in a mano é mano way but in that I agree entirely.

    RD did chuck some money down the drain, well down the pitch drainage system and heating system.
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  • Dazzler21 said:

    MrLargo said:

    MrLargo said:

    You really don't like RD do you AFKA.
    Lots of threads, similar theme.
    Still romancing back to the Slater/Jimenez regime.

    What's to like? It's been f%cking awful on and off the pitch since he took over.
    yeah.
    image
    Ooh, ooh, I forgot the new pitch and the new plastic seats, and the East Street Burgers. Yeah you're right, it's been fantastic and I have particularly enjoyed the last 3 months - ok, so the team hasn't won a home game in all that time, but the grass is looking so lush that I'm thinking of bringing my pet cow to the next game to do a bit of grazing.

    Do you actually go to any matches?
    It has been a shit 3 months, but during the first 3 were you not even a tad excited? We were moving in the right direction. RD has made some shambolic decisions granted, but the end of the Jiminez era wasn't exactly rosy. We're in a half decent position here, we have a team that can still battle in this league once their confidence has turned, we aren't in financial difficulty, we've got plans for a quality youth set-up, we have a network that allows us to bring players in and not break the bank. There are some big positives in there!

    If we want to spend millions, get English managers in, get these experienced players in..............go support Pompey or Leeds. Look at the state of them, chucking money down the drain, employing the same type of shitty english manager who drags them down. We're on a learning curve here, let's stick it out and see what happens. It'll be a bumpy ride.
    I love you Hamer time... Not in a mano é mano way but in that I agree entirely.

    RD did chuck some money down the drain, well down the pitch drainage system and heating system.
    You optimistic types with your positive outlook and your happy-go-lucky demeanour, makes me sick.
  • cafctom said:

    All well and good saying "if they're good enough in Europe then they don't need Championship experience".

    Evidence so far suggests that the sort of players we bring in from abroad rarely are good enough.

    Just under RD or in the club's history?
  • Experience of the English game/Championship proves very little. Look at Andy Gray, been in the division pretty much the best part of his entire career, knew the division, had a good record, cost a packet... sunk without trace. Experience IN GENERAL is very useful, and if a player has played in more than one league/country then it would be arrogant to think that for some reason the Championship would somehow be beyond them, but it's not the be all and end all of what makes a player successful or not.

    Igor cost about the same as Izale McCleod and Luke Varney and had never played in the Championship before, but of those three he is clearly STILL the best, even injured.
  • Oggy Red said:

    Signing a player with substantial Championship experience should mean that he can slot in fairly seamlessly, knows his job and how physically demanding the division is.


    Logically, if he was a valuable player at his current club he'd be indispensible and a 1st team regular.
    He'd be under contract and his club wouldn't want to let him go.

    Unlikely, but unless we're willing to throw big bucks in transfer fees (and wages).......the kind of Champs player available is either going to be a 'has been' or a 'never quite made it' or wrecked by injuries.

    We've seen too many of those in recent times.
    And Uncle Roly no doubt believes that better value or even better players are available outside of the UK.

    You can kind of see his point.

    Nail on head oggy.

    People keep referring to these experienced championship players like there's a skip full of them available and affordable, and RD is intentionally ignoring it.
  • RedPanda said:

    bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    We could also reel off a long list of players who haven't been able to adapt here. What's that saying, once burnt, twice shy? Roland keeps burning himself.
    He's just a Belgian Arseonist ...

    :-) Only kidding, Roland.

  • RedPanda said:

    bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    We could also reel off a long list of players who haven't been able to adapt here. What's that saying, once burnt, twice shy? Roland keeps burning himself.
    He's just a Belgian Arseonist ...

    :-) Only kidding, Roland.

    or Arsonist?
    Have you met many Belgian arseonists Fanny?
  • edited January 2015
    Have you met many Belgian arseonists Fanny?

    Clearly not. Fanny is quoted elsewhere today as saying that noone has excited her in a very long time. :-)
  • Oggy Red said:

    Signing a player with substantial Championship experience should mean that he can slot in fairly seamlessly, knows his job and how physically demanding the division is.


    Logically, if he was a valuable player at his current club he'd be indispensible and a 1st team regular.
    He'd be under contract and his club wouldn't want to let him go.

    Unlikely, but unless we're willing to throw big bucks in transfer fees (and wages).......the kind of Champs player available is either going to be a 'has been' or a 'never quite made it' or wrecked by injuries.

    We've seen too many of those in recent times.
    And Uncle Roly no doubt believes that better value or even better players are available outside of the UK.

    You can kind of see his point.

    Nail on head oggy.

    People keep referring to these experienced championship players like there's a skip full of them available and affordable, and RD is intentionally ignoring it.
    There's one place you can find them on the cheap. Little south-east London outfit. Since that Belgian nut job took over he's flogged their top-scorer and centre-half for next to nothing. He even let a couple of their best players go for free cos he was too tight to break the bank and get them to sign new deals.
  • colthe3rd said:

    RedPanda said:

    colthe3rd said:

    RedPanda said:

    bobmunro said:

    I believe this criteria to be much overrated. Messi has no Championship experience but I think we'd take him on a free! Ronaldo and Bale had no La Liga experience before moving to RM - Diego Costa had no Premiership experience and so on. Extreme examples I know - but you get my point.

    They need to be physically capable of the demands of Championship football but that can be measured and assessed without there being 'proof' by experience.

    We could also reel off a long list of players who haven't been able to adapt here. What's that saying, once burnt, twice shy? Roland keeps burning himself.
    I think you're missing the point.
    That they don't need experience here if they're good enough? I just pointed out that quality abroad doesn't always translate well here, for every Diego Costa there is an Afonso Alves.

    Buying domestically (I think) is less risky but is admittedly more expensive. Ideally we need to find a balance between the two, what that balance is depends entirely on one's opinion.
    And likewise signing a player who has played in the Championship doesn't mean they will be a success.

    Every signing is a gamble, some work out better than others.
    Manager and player recruitment is questionable.

    With the volume brought in from Belgium, Duchatelet has shown that he seems to have little interest with employing people based in England.

  • Oggy Red said:

    Signing a player with substantial Championship experience should mean that he can slot in fairly seamlessly, knows his job and how physically demanding the division is.


    Logically, if he was a valuable player at his current club he'd be indispensible and a 1st team regular.
    He'd be under contract and his club wouldn't want to let him go.

    Unlikely, but unless we're willing to throw big bucks in transfer fees (and wages).......the kind of Champs player available is either going to be a 'has been' or a 'never quite made it' or wrecked by injuries.

    We've seen too many of those in recent times.
    And Uncle Roly no doubt believes that better value or even better players are available outside of the UK.

    You can kind of see his point.

    Nail on head oggy.

    People keep referring to these experienced championship players like there's a skip full of them available and affordable, and RD is intentionally ignoring it.
    There's one place you can find them on the cheap. Little south-east London outfit. Since that Belgian nut job took over he's flogged their top-scorer and centre-half for next to nothing. He even let a couple of their best players go for free cos he was too tight to break the bank and get them to sign new deals.
    Totally ignoring the fact that they both wanted to leave!

    Kermogant was offered a new deal that HE chose not to sign.

    Morrison was out of the team and wanted game time so chose to go to Birmingham on loan and has now made it a permanent deal.

    Fair play to Roly for getting some money in for them!
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