Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
The Value of the NHS
Comments
-
The article states that the review only covered 11 'developed' countries .. so even 'the worst' are probably gonna be far better than the healthcare systems in the countries that you mentionsmudge7946 said:It makes me wonder who wrote it. Is still rather be trashed in the us system then the health care systems of Syria, North Korea, India. Iran, Iraq, Argentina, Cuba, Somalia, Venezuela or Afghanistan.
1 -
Just caught up with this thread. Interesting discussion.Algarveaddick said:
And a private hospital would be telling us it's all about the patient when, in reality, it's all about making the investors a profit.Dippenhall said:
Let's take BUPA as an example of a private health organisation. The clue is in its full name: British United Provident Association. It's a private company limited by guarantee; it has no shareholders, and any profits (after tax) are reinvested in the business. I don't think it still runs its own hospitals but nonetheless it goes some way towards blowing the "private health care only in it for the money" argument out of the water.
This is an over-simplification of the issues. Take my plastic surgeon for example. His main job is working with kids for the NHS, he specialises in cleft palates and does a lot of work on burns. He also spends a fair bit of the year working in places like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh undertaking cleft lip and palate surgery that would not otherwise get done. But he still cuts out the odd bit of skin cancer for me at a private hospital. The hours he works are very scary indeed but he still prefers to take out stitches himself.iaitch said:
Also consultants should either work for the NHS or private not both. Again you're offered an appointment for six months time to see a consultant but if you want to pay then he's free tomorrow.
He doesn't do so much private stuff these days but I wonder if people of his ilk would be forced to go totally to the dark side (which funds much of his philanthropic work) if that was the stark choice being offered. They'd then be lost to the NHS for good.
0 -
Good points CAFC fan. Now instead of Bupa, which has to "compete" with the NHS tell me about the private health companies in the USA?0
-
Interesting read.
The National Health Action Party are standing in my local constituency (probably because Harriet Harman is the local MP).
Their manifesto says "The National Health Action Party is a political party formed by doctors, nurses, paramedics and ordinary people who've come together to defend and improve the NHS" - sounds good right ? Anyone know any reason why I shouldn't vote for them ? All I've got to go on so far is their website.0 -
Okay. 58% of US community hospitals are non-profit, 21% are government owned, and 21% are for-profit.Algarveaddick said:Good points CAFC fan. Now instead of Bupa, which has to "compete" with the NHS tell me about the private health companies in the USA?
The US solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975.
In 2012, per capita health spend in the USA (public and private) was $8,895. In the UK it was $3,647. GOVERNMENT spending on healthcare in the States as a portion of the $8,895 was around $4,400. A figure in isolation that's only beaten by Luxembourg, Monaco and Norway. By comparison the UK figure was $2,919.
But we have 27 doctors per 10,000 population while the States only has 24. Portugal BTW has 39 doctors per 10,000 population. Meanwhile, that well known impoverished nation, Greece, has 61!
It seems that in theory US doctors are either more efficient or work longer hours maybe? In researching this, I was staggered to find out the UK has 613,000 nurses and midwives. That seems like a huge number to me and works out as 101 nurses per 10,000 people.
In 2012 around 60% of the American workforce had their healthcare insurance paid for by their employers. That cost around $13,375 for family cover, so the actual number of people covered factoring in partners and children would have been much more and that would have included dental cover. (But that very high cost might go some way towards explaining why US salaries aren't that great?)
Nonetheless, if a UK politician asks if you want the sort of health service they have in America the answer is well, maybe I do, as long as you are NOT the UK equivalent of an illegal immigrant from Mexico or someone living in the dirt poor regions of the South or the Rust Belt.0 -
Richest country in the world, 40 million people who can't afford basic health care.cafcfan said:
Okay. 58% of US community hospitals are non-profit, 21% are government owned, and 21% are for-profit.Algarveaddick said:Good points CAFC fan. Now instead of Bupa, which has to "compete" with the NHS tell me about the private health companies in the USA?
The US solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975.
In 2012, per capita health spend in the USA (public and private) was $8,895. In the UK it was $3,647. GOVERNMENT spending on healthcare in the States as a portion of the $8,895 was around $4,400. A figure in isolation that's only beaten by Luxembourg, Monaco and Norway. By comparison the UK figure was $2,919.
But we have 27 doctors per 10,000 population while the States only has 24. Portugal BTW has 39 doctors per 10,000 population. Meanwhile, that well known impoverished nation, Greece, has 61!
It seems that in theory US doctors are either more efficient or work longer hours maybe? In researching this, I was staggered to find out the UK has 613,000 nurses and midwives. That seems like a huge number to me and works out as 101 nurses per 10,000 people.
In 2012 around 60% of the American workforce had their healthcare insurance paid for by their employers. That cost around $13,375 for family cover, so the actual number of people covered factoring in partners and children would have been much more and that would have included dental cover. (But that very high cost might go some way towards explaining why US salaries aren't that great?)
Nonetheless, if a UK politician asks if you want the sort of health service they have in America the answer is well, maybe I do, as long as you are NOT the UK equivalent of an illegal immigrant from Mexico or someone living in the dirt poor regions of the South or the Rust Belt.3 -
I think you're being extremely generous in your description of BUPA as something akin to a social enterprise. BUPA makes profits in the £100's millions per year, partly underwritten by keeping the fees it pays to it contractors, medical consultants, at 1990's levels. In theory these profits are for the benefit of its UK members (according to the charter that was used to set it up) but instead it has used them to buy up similar companies around the world, potentially in breach of it's own charter.cafcfan said:
Just caught up with this thread. Interesting discussion.Algarveaddick said:
And a private hospital would be telling us it's all about the patient when, in reality, it's all about making the investors a profit.Dippenhall said:
Let's take BUPA as an example of a private health organisation. The clue is in its full name: British United Provident Association. It's a private company limited by guarantee; it has no shareholders, and any profits (after tax) are reinvested in the business. I don't think it still runs its own hospitals but nonetheless it goes some way towards blowing the "private health care only in it for the money" argument out of the water.
This is an over-simplification of the issues. Take my plastic surgeon for example. His main job is working with kids for the NHS, he specialises in cleft palates and does a lot of work on burns. He also spends a fair bit of the year working in places like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh undertaking cleft lip and palate surgery that would not otherwise get done. But he still cuts out the odd bit of skin cancer for me at a private hospital. The hours he works are very scary indeed but he still prefers to take out stitches himself.iaitch said:
Also consultants should either work for the NHS or private not both. Again you're offered an appointment for six months time to see a consultant but if you want to pay then he's free tomorrow.
He doesn't do so much private stuff these days but I wonder if people of his ilk would be forced to go totally to the dark side (which funds much of his philanthropic work) if that was the stark choice being offered. They'd then be lost to the NHS for good.
The board appears answerable only to itself or its associate board (which it apoints) and has the final say it who joins, leaves and how much they pay themselves.
It has faced judicial criticism in criminal trials for putting profits first as well as from its own staff over pay, working practices and conditions. It has more recently seen an increase in complaints to the Financial Ombudsman due to it trying to wriggle out of paying or hiking fees.
It has an unusual business structure agreed, but it is most certainly profit focussed.3 -
I'm not defending the system, merely pointing out that the US Govt. spends more on health care per capita than we do DESPITE having the back-stop of private medical cover. In any event, what you say is not quite right. There are about 40 million people who cannot (or will not) pay for private health insurance. That means that they are likely to avoid visits to an equivalent of a GP. They can still pitch up at the local hospital or a clinic and get free medical treatment.mcgrandall said:
Richest country in the world, 40 million people who can't afford basic health care.cafcfan said:
Okay. 58% of US community hospitals are non-profit, 21% are government owned, and 21% are for-profit.Algarveaddick said:Good points CAFC fan. Now instead of Bupa, which has to "compete" with the NHS tell me about the private health companies in the USA?
The US solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975.
In 2012, per capita health spend in the USA (public and private) was $8,895. In the UK it was $3,647. GOVERNMENT spending on healthcare in the States as a portion of the $8,895 was around $4,400. A figure in isolation that's only beaten by Luxembourg, Monaco and Norway. By comparison the UK figure was $2,919.
But we have 27 doctors per 10,000 population while the States only has 24. Portugal BTW has 39 doctors per 10,000 population. Meanwhile, that well known impoverished nation, Greece, has 61!
It seems that in theory US doctors are either more efficient or work longer hours maybe? In researching this, I was staggered to find out the UK has 613,000 nurses and midwives. That seems like a huge number to me and works out as 101 nurses per 10,000 people.
In 2012 around 60% of the American workforce had their healthcare insurance paid for by their employers. That cost around $13,375 for family cover, so the actual number of people covered factoring in partners and children would have been much more and that would have included dental cover. (But that very high cost might go some way towards explaining why US salaries aren't that great?)
Nonetheless, if a UK politician asks if you want the sort of health service they have in America the answer is well, maybe I do, as long as you are NOT the UK equivalent of an illegal immigrant from Mexico or someone living in the dirt poor regions of the South or the Rust Belt.
It is an irony that the high cost of medical treatment in the US makes innovation through research and development, more attractive and viable. That in turn means that the Land of the Free are in many ways subsidising the costs of equipment and drugs for the NHS.0 -
I have highlighted the bit that I think is of no relevance to this discussion as it involves research not treatment. One in five hospitals is purely for profit, unlucky if you happen to fall ill near there then... I think that the NHS is still far preferable personally.cafcfan said:
Okay. 58% of US community hospitals are non-profit, 21% are government owned, and 21% are for-profit.Algarveaddick said:Good points CAFC fan. Now instead of Bupa, which has to "compete" with the NHS tell me about the private health companies in the USA?
The US solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975.
In 2012, per capita health spend in the USA (public and private) was $8,895. In the UK it was $3,647. GOVERNMENT spending on healthcare in the States as a portion of the $8,895 was around $4,400. A figure in isolation that's only beaten by Luxembourg, Monaco and Norway. By comparison the UK figure was $2,919.
But we have 27 doctors per 10,000 population while the States only has 24. Portugal BTW has 39 doctors per 10,000 population. Meanwhile, that well known impoverished nation, Greece, has 61!
It seems that in theory US doctors are either more efficient or work longer hours maybe? In researching this, I was staggered to find out the UK has 613,000 nurses and midwives. That seems like a huge number to me and works out as 101 nurses per 10,000 people.
In 2012 around 60% of the American workforce had their healthcare insurance paid for by their employers. That cost around $13,375 for family cover, so the actual number of people covered factoring in partners and children would have been much more and that would have included dental cover. (But that very high cost might go some way towards explaining why US salaries aren't that great?)
Nonetheless, if a UK politician asks if you want the sort of health service they have in America the answer is well, maybe I do, as long as you are NOT the UK equivalent of an illegal immigrant from Mexico or someone living in the dirt poor regions of the South or the Rust Belt.
0 -
Free clinics offer limited services and rarely provide emergency services. For instance, they do not cater for chronic pain. They also could not exist without huge numbers of volunteers. So what you say is not quite right either!cafcfan said:
I'm not defending the system, merely pointing out that the US Govt. spends more on health care per capita than we do DESPITE having the back-stop of private medical cover. In any event, what you say is not quite right. There are about 40 million people who cannot (or will not) pay for private health insurance. That means that they are likely to avoid visits to an equivalent of a GP, They can still pitch up at the local hospital or a clinic and get free medical treatment.mcgrandall said:
Richest country in the world, 40 million people who can't afford basic health care.cafcfan said:
Okay. 58% of US community hospitals are non-profit, 21% are government owned, and 21% are for-profit.Algarveaddick said:Good points CAFC fan. Now instead of Bupa, which has to "compete" with the NHS tell me about the private health companies in the USA?
The US solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975.
In 2012, per capita health spend in the USA (public and private) was $8,895. In the UK it was $3,647. GOVERNMENT spending on healthcare in the States as a portion of the $8,895 was around $4,400. A figure in isolation that's only beaten by Luxembourg, Monaco and Norway. By comparison the UK figure was $2,919.
But we have 27 doctors per 10,000 population while the States only has 24. Portugal BTW has 39 doctors per 10,000 population. Meanwhile, that well known impoverished nation, Greece, has 61!
It seems that in theory US doctors are either more efficient or work longer hours maybe? In researching this, I was staggered to find out the UK has 613,000 nurses and midwives. That seems like a huge number to me and works out as 101 nurses per 10,000 people.
In 2012 around 60% of the American workforce had their healthcare insurance paid for by their employers. That cost around $13,375 for family cover, so the actual number of people covered factoring in partners and children would have been much more and that would have included dental cover. (But that very high cost might go some way towards explaining why US salaries aren't that great?)
Nonetheless, if a UK politician asks if you want the sort of health service they have in America the answer is well, maybe I do, as long as you are NOT the UK equivalent of an illegal immigrant from Mexico or someone living in the dirt poor regions of the South or the Rust Belt.1 -
Sponsored links:
-
After many years of heart trouble, including replacement valves and recovery from a cardiac arrest, I was revived after about thirty minutes in Kettering general, to say how grateful to the NHS is an understatement. These days I'm looked after at Papworth, having seen and used their private services, if my family ever have the need, I will send them there.1
-
Anyone else seen the new Public Contracts Regulations 2015? Seem to mean that, from April 2016, all NHS health services must be put out to tender to the private sector. They appear to be sneaking this one out under cover of the General Election palaver, and no one's picked up on it.0
-
I've come to this thread because of the experiences of my son (who is known to many on the various cricket threads).
For years he has suffered badly with tonsillitis so much so that it was diagnosed by doctors in Australia (where he was playing cricket) and this year in Spain (on a golfing trip) as it being both "chronic and acute". However, despite having tonsillitis two or three times each and every year for the last decade, the local doctor's practice would not refer him for a tonsillectomy. They would, however, give him a referral letter to go private. The constant fear of him getting it when he has ever had a sore throat has really impacted his life so that really had become the only option.
Three weeks ago he was due to have the operation. However, some 48 hours before, it became evident that he was getting tonsillitis yet again and the op had to be cancelled. It got to the stage where he not only was in severe pain but was struggling to swallow and breathe. He managed to get an appointment at his Dr's surgery with a paramedic practitioner who said that he needed to go immediately to A & E.
Although we live about 800 yards from Queen Mary's Sidcup, they no longer have an A & E department so he was sent to the PRUH in Farnborough. After about 45 minutes he was seen by a triage nurse who, within seconds, of seeing him, rushed to find an emergency doctor. His body had started to shut down and the fear was that he was developing sepsis. They put him on three lots of IV immediately (antibiotics, pain killers and nutrition) and he remained in hospital for three days where he was constantly monitored. He was discharged and then had ten days of antibiotics. If he wasn't as athletic as he is they would have kept him in for another couple of days. I have to say that the treatment at the PRUH was first class from the consultant to the nurses to the people delivering the food. It could not have been better though one suspects that the food at a private hospital is a step up. That's immaterial though.
Fast forward to today and his visit to the consultant. All good apart from the fact that, although the camera went fine down his throat it wouldn't go through his left nostril. He's been a lifetime sufferer of hay fever and appears to have a blockage so he's been given a steroid spray that he has to use for the next three months when he will have to go back again and be monitored for the next year.
As for the tonsils, the private operation will take place, fingers crossed, two weeks tomorrow and he will need a couple of weeks to recover from that. The NHS consultant said that, during his three-day stay, that the NHS would do the operation but that it would have to be in three or so months time. He really can't wait that long to have it done so the private op will take place, fingers crossed, two weeks tomorrow.
So, although there was a reluctance of the NHS to initially refer him, once he was in the system the actual treatment he has received has been first class. It's just that first hurdle that was so hard to get over but the "silver cloud" of the trauma three weeks ago was that he was diagnosed with the nose issue. Life for him as someone who is a sports coach by profession, as well as playing, should be so much better. So thank you NHS. I just wish it wasn't so hard to get seen and diagnosed these days.11 -
Sorry to hear about Seb's issues sounds like it has been awful over many years. Glad he is on the mend and getting it fixed and glad you largely had a good experience with the NHS.Addick Addict said:I've come to this thread because of the experiences of my son (who is known to many on the various cricket threads).
For years he has suffered badly with tonsillitis so much so that it was diagnosed by doctors in Australia (where he was playing cricket) and this year in Spain (on a golfing trip) as it being both "chronic and acute". However, despite having tonsillitis two or three times each and every year for the last decade, the local doctor's practice would not refer him for a tonsillectomy. They would, however, give him a referral letter to go private. The constant fear of him getting it when he has ever had a sore throat has really impacted his life so that really had become the only option.
Three weeks ago he was due to have the operation. However, some 48 hours before, it became evident that he was getting tonsillitis yet again and the op had to be cancelled. It got to the stage where he not only was in severe pain but was struggling to swallow and breathe. He managed to get an appointment at his Dr's surgery with a paramedic practitioner who said that he needed to go immediately to A & E.
Although we live about 800 yards from Queen Mary's Sidcup, they no longer have an A & E department so he was sent to the PRUH in Farnborough. After about 45 minutes he was seen by a triage nurse who, within seconds, of seeing him, rushed to find an emergency doctor. His body had started to shut down and the fear was that he was developing sepsis. They put him on three lots of IV immediately (antibiotics, pain killers and nutrition) and he remained in hospital for three days where he was constantly monitored. He was discharged and then had ten days of antibiotics. If he wasn't as athletic as he is they would have kept him in for another couple of days. I have to say that the treatment at the PRUH was first class from the consultant to the nurses to the people delivering the food. It could not have been better though one suspects that the food at a private hospital is a step up. That's immaterial though.
Fast forward to today and his visit to the consultant. All good apart from the fact that, although the camera went fine down his throat it wouldn't go through his left nostril. He's been a lifetime sufferer of hay fever and appears to have a blockage so he's been given a steroid spray that he has to use for the next three months when he will have to go back again and be monitored for the next year.
As for the tonsils, the private operation will take place, fingers crossed, two weeks tomorrow and he will need a couple of weeks to recover from that. The NHS consultant said that, during his three-day stay, that the NHS would do the operation but that it would have to be in three or so months time. He really can't wait that long to have it done so the private op will take place, fingers crossed, two weeks tomorrow.
So, although there was a reluctance of the NHS to initially refer him, once he was in the system the actual treatment he has received has been first class. It's just that first hurdle that was so hard to get over but the "silver cloud" of the trauma three weeks ago was that he was diagnosed with the nose issue. Life for him as someone who is a sports coach by profession, as well as playing, should be so much better. So thank you NHS. I just wish it wasn't so hard to get seen and diagnosed these days.
We live quite close together! The UTC at Queen Mary's Sidcup whilst not an A&E can deal with an lot of urgent issues (though it sounds like by the time they suspected sepsis that wouldn't have helped). I took my wife there with suspected appendicitis a year or so ago. They were great, got all of her initial tests and triage done there they then sent us to Queen Elizabeth but they knew we were coming and she didn't need to be triaged again so it cut our time in the waiting room massively.
Advanced paramedic practitioners in the community including GPs is something I've been working on in my job it's brilliant to hear of a good experience with them. It's something there is a push for massively at the moment as for next financial year there is a large surplus of qualified paramedics in the UK compared to traditional paramedic jobs. It's the one area of health workforce in this position so using them in the community in this way is a huge benefit to the rest of the system.2 -
Going in for a DEXA at St Thomas' in about 15 minutes1
-
......anyone about for a beer in about an hour 🍺😉4
-
No idea what a Dexa is @Gribbo buy hope all ok mate.
1 -
Bone density scan mate. The rest of me is dense enough, so see no reason why me bones ain't.AFKABartram said:No idea what a Dexa is @Gribbo buy hope all ok mate.
Find out in 2 weeks, cheers AFKA, mate2 -
Glad Seb is ok now.
I had a slightly similar story with my prostate cancer diagnosis 2 years ago.
Wait for months or perhaps much longer for an NHS prostatectemy and they were also striking at the time.
Alternatively go private & stump up north of £20K.
I chose to avoid Russian roulette and unsurprisingly got offered a private op the next day with the same consultant.2 -
I have had to call an ambulance for my Mum twice this year due to strokes, and on both occasions was told the wait for ambulance was 2 hours (actually came in 50 mins + we cancelled the second one after half an hour).
Digest that.1 -
Sponsored links:
-
I have nothing but praise for the NHS from recent experience. Our GP has a marvellous online triage system and they come back to you very quickly, either with a text, phone call, a date for an appointment with a clinician, which might be a nurse, paramedic or doctor. Last Monday I had a medication query and within 5 minutes of me submitting the online form, I had a text from a GP.
I also have huge praise for Maidstone Hospital in their care for my husband over the last few months. One Friday evening at the end of August, he developed stroke symptoms, so I immediately called for an ambulance. The ambulance did take an hour to arrive, but although his symptoms had subsided within 20 minutes, he was blue lighted to the hospital where he had an immediate brain scan. Nothing showed up and as the symptoms had gone, he was allowed home.
The next day, a Saturday, he got a phone call asking him to go for an MRI scan that afternoon at the new diagnostic centre near the hospital. He was also given an appointment to see the stroke consultant on Sunday morning, who arranged an immediate CT scan. He diagnosed a TIA (mini stroke) and was given medication.
The following Tuesday he called my husband and said that he had reviewed the scans and found a mass in his right lung. Another scan was arranged for the next day. We saw the lung consultant the next week, the day before we were due to go away for 6 days. The lung consultant said that he would need at PET scan, which was arranged for the day after we got back from our holiday.
The scan showed a tumour in the right lung and the lymph nodes between the lungs were inflamed, so he had an EBUS biopsy the following week. This confirmed that the lung tumour was a stage 2 cancer, but the lymph nodes also showed cancer, so it was diagnosed as stage 3. Fortunately there was no further spread.
It isn't possible to operate as the lymph nodes are inaccessible, so he starts a course of chemotherapy, one day a week for 6 weeks, starting the week after next. He will also have an intensive course of radiotherapy, every week day for 6 weeks.
It's going to be tough, but we are very grateful to the wonderful NHS staff who have cared for him so far, especially the stroke consultant who found the mass in his lung.
7 -
Fingers crossed for you all, Emmy.ME14addick said:I have nothing but praise for the NHS from recent experience. Our GP has a marvellous online triage system and they come back to you very quickly, either with a text, phone call, a date for an appointment with a clinician, which might be a nurse, paramedic or doctor. Last Monday I had a medication query and within 5 minutes of me submitting the online form, I had a text from a GP.
I also have huge praise for Maidstone Hospital in their care for my husband over the last few months. One Friday evening at the end of August, he developed stroke symptoms, so I immediately called for an ambulance. The ambulance did take an hour to arrive, but although his symptoms had subsided within 20 minutes, he was blue lighted to the hospital where he had an immediate brain scan. Nothing showed up and as the symptoms had gone, he was allowed home.
The next day, a Saturday, he got a phone call asking him to go for an MRI scan that afternoon at the new diagnostic centre near the hospital. He was also given an appointment to see the stroke consultant on Sunday morning, who arranged an immediate CT scan. He diagnosed a TIA (mini stroke) and was given medication.
The following Tuesday he called my husband and said that he had reviewed the scans and found a mass in his right lung. Another scan was arranged for the next day. We saw the lung consultant the next week, the day before we were due to go away for 6 days. The lung consultant said that he would need at PET scan, which was arranged for the day after we got back from our holiday.
The scan showed a tumour in the right lung and the lymph nodes between the lungs were inflamed, so he had an EBUS biopsy the following week. This confirmed that the lung tumour was a stage 2 cancer, but the lymph nodes also showed cancer, so it was diagnosed as stage 3. Fortunately there was no further spread.
It isn't possible to operate as the lymph nodes are inaccessible, so he starts a course of chemotherapy, one day a week for 6 weeks, starting the week after next. He will also have an intensive course of radiotherapy, every week day for 6 weeks.
It's going to be tough, but we are very grateful to the wonderful NHS staff who have cared for him so far, especially the stroke consultant who found the mass in his lung.1 -
All the best to you both ME14
1 -
Wishing you a happy outcome ME14.
Sending you both my best wishes2 -
It's weird to think having a TIA was lucky, but it seems to have been in this case @ME14addick. Hope MrME14's treatment isn't too rough on him, and that it proves to be successful.1
-
I mean... all the best...
But... I fully get the point of your post; that is amazing service and care
Long live the NHS2 -
If he hadn't had the TIA he wouldn't have done anything until it was probably too late. He had been experiencing breathlessness but not so bad that it was causing problems. The lung function tests that he had recently showed emphysema. He has smoked most of his life but with the help of NHS Smokefree, he has managed to stop. As a smoker he knew the risks, but like most, he didn't think it would happen to him.aliwibble said:It's weird to think having a TIA was lucky, but it seems to have been in this case @ME14addick. Hope MrME14's treatment isn't too rough on him, and that it proves to be successful.0
