'Pitch invasion' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
'Pitch invasion' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
It was not too many years ago that British aircraft were bombing Belgrade and causing widespread destruction to a once beautiful city. Even the Germans and Spanish joined in the bombardment, acting as the air force for the Albanians/Kosovans. Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme. Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
'Pitch invasion' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
It was not too many years ago that British aircraft were bombing Belgrade and causing widespread destruction to a once beautiful city. Even the Germans and Spanish joined in the bombardment, acting as the air force for the Albanians/Kosovans. Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme. Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
If the dog can't play nicely, just lock it in the garden then. Simple.
'Pitch invasion' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
It was not too many years ago that British aircraft were bombing Belgrade and causing widespread destruction to a once beautiful city. Even the Germans and Spanish joined in the bombardment, acting as the air force for the Albanians/Kosovans. Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme. Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
If the dog can't play nicely, just lock it in the garden then. Simple.
as I wrote above, rather a naïve response .. to a complex issue
'Pitch invasion' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
It was not too many years ago that British aircraft were bombing Belgrade and causing widespread destruction to a once beautiful city. Even the Germans and Spanish joined in the bombardment, acting as the air force for the Albanians/Kosovans. Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme. Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
If the dog can't play nicely, just lock it in the garden then. Simple.
as I wrote above, rather a naïve response .. to a complex issue
I don't think so to be honest Lincs. The behaviour of the Serbian fans - whatever the reasons - is as bad, if not worse, than English fans in the late eighties, and a ban was put in place then so why not now; it's not like they haven't been warned?
Both sets of players did little wrong. A Serb caught the flag. Well you would wouldn't you ? You can't play whilst being "buzzed" by a flag. The Albanian player snatched his flag, without violence I thought. The ruck started, when a Serb supporter, ran on and cracked an Albanian player, over the head with a chair. The players were only fighting off "supporters", not each other. As said, Kolarov tried to act as peacemaker.
there och quoteon' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
It was not too many years ago that British aircraft were bombing Belgrade and causing widespread destruction to a once beautiful city. Even the Germans and Spanish joined in the bombardment, acting as the air force for the Albanians/Kosovans. Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme. Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
Rubbish - its a football problem simple as that.Serbia is a blinding place for a weekend away with mates. We stopped off there on the way to Croatia years back - it was fine. Its a decent stag destination these days too.
Yet when football is on they turn into animals no matter who its against. Have the French bombed them too in the past? As that innocent french fan mudered out there a few years back was obviosly justfitied if so.
Why do some people find a reason to try and justify other countries football issues yet when its England no justification could possibly be listened to let alone accepted.
I mean we were justified In 'rioting' in Dublin 95, after all they had been bombing the mainland for yonks??
'Pitch invasion' is a gross overstatement, a few presumably Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Agree completely, but I'm a little confused about the last sentence.
Are you saying that Serbia was bombed by NATO due to a "storm in a teacup"? If so that's a bit of a shocking mis-reprentation of what was going on at the time, and the incidents leading up to it.
It may also be worth remembering that football "supporters" played a key role in some of the horrific violence that the Balkans saw, these were places where thousands of young men mixed and socialised - so essentially became a breeding ground for nationalistic sentiment. A minority of course, to tar all Serbian fans (at that time) as animals would be wrong - but even 20 odd years on, those are likely to be the type of fans to turn up to a game vs Albania. (http://www.rexter.cz/on-serbian-hooligans-or-how-and-why-thugs-are-getting-it-their-way/2013/11/02/)
So whilst you can't blame the fans a whole, it's clear there is quite a powerful number of thugs amongst the Serbian fan base - and thugs with a history for nastiness.
'Pitch invasion' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
It was not too many years ago that British aircraft were bombing Belgrade and causing widespread destruction to a once beautiful city. Even the Germans and Spanish joined in the bombardment, acting as the air force for the Albanians/Kosovans. Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme. Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
If the dog can't play nicely, just lock it in the garden then. Simple.
as I wrote above, rather a naïve response .. to a complex issue
I don't think so to be honest Lincs. The behaviour of the Serbian fans - whatever the reasons - is as bad, if not worse, than English fans in the late eighties, and a ban was put in place then so why not now; it's not like they haven't been warned?
there och quoteon' is a gross overstatement, a few the pitch ly Serbian spectators got onto the pitch but were outnumbered by the players. Two things: 1) The Serbs are not necessarily wholly responsible for this affair. The 'drone' towing the Albanian flag and the Albanian players response to the Serb player understandably grabbing the flag was the flashpoint ... 2) The roots of this situation have zero to do with football. The truth is that the Balkans has been a hotbed of inter community hatreds since the Ottoman Empire used the divide and rule principle to govern the area over hundreds of years. Many Albanians are Muslim, most Serbs are Christian Orthodox. Albania is a NATO member and a candidate for EU membership. I trust that Serbia will not once again be subject to extensive bombing by 'the allies' as a result of this storm in a teacup
Lincs the roots might have nout to do with football on this occassion but what about every other occasion involving serbia and thier domestic teams.
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
It was not too many years ago that British aircraft were bombing Belgrade and causing widespread destruction to a once beautiful city. Even the Germans and Spanish joined in the bombardment, acting as the air force for the Albanians/Kosovans. Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme. Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
Rubbish - its a football problem simple as that.Serbia is a blinding place for a weekend away with mates. We stopped off there on the way to Croatia years back - it was fine. Its a decent stag destination these days too.
Yet when football is on they turn into animals no matter who its against. Have the French bombed them too in the past? As that innocent french fan mudered out there a few years back was obviosly justfitied if so.
Why do some people find a reason to try and justify other countries football issues yet when its England no justification could possibly be listened to let alone accepted.
I mean we were justified In 'rioting' in Dublin 95, after all they had been bombing the mainland for yonks??
We'll have to disagree over this .. I am sure that a country's economic and social problems are reflected in the way the public, including football fans behave. Having said that, I would add that those who follow a national football team are probably more of a 'nationalistic mindset' than the average man in the street. I repeat that during the Belgrade incident only a handful of dickhead spectators 'invaded' the pitch. I've seen worse at Leeds and Millwall. lastly, I wrote that Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme, therefore not all Serbs 'hate the British', some do, some don't, most probably don't give a toss, all they want is our money
It's worth remembering that football crowds have always been a useful recruiting ground for extremist politicians and, while it could happen anywhere, Serbia has the most horrifying recent history. Maybe you remember the name of Arkan, the leader of Milosevic's unofficial militia which was responsible for many of the worst atrocities in the Balkan war? He was a Red Star ultra, and that was where he recruited most of his lieutenants too. Later he was given his own club, Obelisk, which soon achieved success in the national league, probably because everyone else was too scared to beat them. Fortunately this world class scumbag was bumped off and Obelisk disappeared back into obscurity. But it worth remembering that the most virulent Serbian nationalist behaviour was formented on the terraces. In a later post today my Serbian mate laments that it has emerged that a major hooligan who was supposed to be in jail following the violence in Genoa a while back was in a prominent position at the stadium last night. But the Albanians have a lot to answer for too re last night, especially the PM's brother.
A friend of mine went to school with Arkan's son in Athens - said he would make everyone sing Red Star songs in the showers after PE and that, understandably, everyone obliged.
It's worth remembering that football crowds have always been a useful recruiting ground for extremist politicians and, while it could happen anywhere, Serbia has the most horrifying recent history. Maybe you remember the name of Arkan, the leader of Milosevic's unofficial militia which was responsible for many of the worst atrocities in the Balkan war? He was a Red Star ultra, and that was where he recruited most of his lieutenants too. Later he was given his own club, Obelisk, which soon achieved success in the national league, probably because everyone else was too scared to beat them. Fortunately this world class scumbag was bumped off and Obelisk disappeared back into obscurity. But it worth remembering that the most virulent Serbian nationalist behaviour was formented on the terraces. In a later post today my Serbian mate laments that it has emerged that a major hooligan who was supposed to be in jail following the violence in Genoa a while back was in a prominent position at the stadium last night. But the Albanians have a lot to answer for too re last night, especially the PM's brother.
The major dude who was supposed to be in jail walks around clapping a bit on the pitch after about a minute of the video, in shorts and bald head. Saw an exposé on him in one of the papers around here.
It's worth remembering that football crowds have always been a useful recruiting ground for extremist politicians and, while it could happen anywhere, Serbia has the most horrifying recent history. Maybe you remember the name of Arkan, the leader of Milosevic's unofficial militia which was responsible for many of the worst atrocities in the Balkan war? He was a Red Star ultra, and that was where he recruited most of his lieutenants too. Later he was given his own club, Obelisk, which soon achieved success in the national league, probably because everyone else was too scared to beat them. Fortunately this world class scumbag was bumped off and Obelisk disappeared back into obscurity. But it worth remembering that the most virulent Serbian nationalist behaviour was formented on the terraces. In a later post today my Serbian mate laments that it has emerged that a major hooligan who was supposed to be in jail following the violence in Genoa a while back was in a prominent position at the stadium last night. But the Albanians have a lot to answer for too re last night, especially the PM's brother.
The major dude who was supposed to be in jail walks around clapping a bit on the pitch after about a minute of the video, in shorts and bald head. Saw an exposé on him in one of the papers around here.
Whoever he is, he doesn't seem like he has a lot to worry about.
Comments
Every time a British club play a serbian team away our clubs fans are put under hotel arrest the whole time - where else in the world does this happen/ be allowed to happen.
Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme.
Serbia is regarded by most EU nations and the NATO/US pact as a persona non grata state, an ally of Russia, the last European bastion of old style communism. Give a dog a bad name, kick it around and given the chance, it's gonna bite you.
You can't play whilst being "buzzed" by a flag.
The Albanian player snatched his flag, without violence I thought.
The ruck started, when a Serb supporter, ran on and cracked an Albanian player, over the head with a chair.
The players were only fighting off "supporters", not each other.
As said, Kolarov tried to act as peacemaker.
Yet when football is on they turn into animals no matter who its against. Have the French bombed them too in the past? As that innocent french fan mudered out there a few years back was obviosly justfitied if so.
Why do some people find a reason to try and justify other countries football issues yet when its England no justification could possibly be listened to let alone accepted.
I mean we were justified In 'rioting' in Dublin 95, after all they had been bombing the mainland for yonks??
Are you saying that Serbia was bombed by NATO due to a "storm in a teacup"? If so that's a bit of a shocking mis-reprentation of what was going on at the time, and the incidents leading up to it.
It may also be worth remembering that football "supporters" played a key role in some of the horrific violence that the Balkans saw, these were places where thousands of young men mixed and socialised - so essentially became a breeding ground for nationalistic sentiment. A minority of course, to tar all Serbian fans (at that time) as animals would be wrong - but even 20 odd years on, those are likely to be the type of fans to turn up to a game vs Albania. (http://www.rexter.cz/on-serbian-hooligans-or-how-and-why-thugs-are-getting-it-their-way/2013/11/02/)
So whilst you can't blame the fans a whole, it's clear there is quite a powerful number of thugs amongst the Serbian fan base - and thugs with a history for nastiness.
lionsducks tail.lastly, I wrote that Irrespective of the rights and /or wrongs of the various Balkans conflicts, to expect all Serbs to welcome British visitors with anything other than hostility is naïve in the extreme, therefore not all Serbs 'hate the British', some do, some don't, most probably don't give a toss, all they want is our money
Incidentally the Albanian FA has denied that the PM's brother was involved or arrested;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29642545