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Bobs Tactics Yesterday.

Absolutely love BP but starting to get a bit miffed about something.

Yesterday we started brightly and could of been a goal up before we scored in the 10th minute, Cousins was playing an effective role just behind Igor in the middle, Bulot looked bright on the left and Jackson comfortable on the ball, standing at the top of the Covered End you could see the team had very good shape.

We score a well worked goal that our early play deserved, and then ...Cousins goes back out to the left and from that moment onwards we effectively handed Birmingham not only the ball to play with, but all of our own confidence. Up to that point Birmingham had looked a little disorganised and we were sitting pretty against a 20th place side ...so why then completely reshuffle the midfield, sit back and play on the counter attack ? If you give any team that much possession the chances are they will score at some point. We appeared to be wanting to hang onto the lead for the remaining 80 minutes rather than try and improve our goal difference.

We were standing there yesterday trying to understand why he did this. I think our best guess was that by sitting back maybe this saves energy for the second half, but obviously not.

This is fine away from home and worked out well at Norwich, but need to be a lot more positive at home against the lower placed teams.

Comments

  • Despite his sojourn for Millwall in his playing days, I think Bob himself is on a learning curve at this level. We started the game brightly, full of tempo, moving the ball on relatively quickly, and Brum did absolutely no pressing. Bulot and Igor had so much space for our goal it was criminal.

    Of course, having conceded Brum responded and upped their own game. They started to press higher up the pitch, and the gap between our midfield and Igor grew larger and larger. What should have afforded us even more space became a painful concession of territory for the rest of the game, something we never really recovered from.

    Ferguson reportedly used to tell his players to up their tempo once they'd scored. It made it more difficult for the opposition to respond and often led to more goals. Taking your foot off the pedal might start to deny space but it also concedes territory, possession and very rarely do sides find it easy then to up things again without some kind of timely catalyst in the game.

    I applaud Bob for trying to get us passing, but if it's producing neither possession nor genuine chances - how many saves did Randolph have to make yesterday? - then what's the point?
  • BP will be taking all this in, the things that are being said here, him and his coaches will also have noticed. Lets hope BP and

  • BP will be taking all this in, the things that are being said here, him and his coaches will also have noticed. Lets hope BP and and his coaches will become more attack minded, but I am sure he will always be wary of losing. Some players are still getting used to playing here and all of them are getting used to BP ways, that is why I believe with a few additions, we will be better in the second half of the season
  • If only there was some sort of post-match thread to discuss these things.

    Brum switched to 442 after the goal and we switched to combat that.
  • Bob was going absolutely ballistic before Bulot and Cousins switched over. I was at the bottom of B (or C?) Block, East Stand - and I could hear him shouting! He called Cousins over and had a chat, before Cousins went back on the pitch and swapped with Bulot... why? I don't quite know to be honest.

    Bob did say in his post-match interview that he was aware that things went downhill after the first 15 minutes when we "began to give the game away". I'm sure he knows what that coincides with.

    Henry could well be right though, Birmingham did seem to change their style at the same time. That said, so did we around the 60 minute mark when we put Moussa on, and later, Tucudean. So it wasn't all negative. (Having Vetokele, Moussa and Tucudean all on the pitch is surely a sign of intent!)
  • Choice said:

    Absolutely love BP but starting to get a bit miffed about something.

    Yesterday we started brightly and could of been a goal up before we scored in the 10th minute, Cousins was playing an effective role just behind Igor in the middle, Bulot looked bright on the left and Jackson comfortable on the ball, standing at the top of the Covered End you could see the team had very good shape.

    We score a well worked goal that our early play deserved, and then ...Cousins goes back out to the left and from that moment onwards we effectively handed Birmingham not only the ball to play with, but all of our own confidence. Up to that point Birmingham had looked a little disorganised and we were sitting pretty against a 20th place side ...so why then completely reshuffle the midfield, sit back and play on the counter attack ? If you give any team that much possession the chances are they will score at some point. We appeared to be wanting to hang onto the lead for the remaining 80 minutes rather than try and improve our goal difference.

    We were standing there yesterday trying to understand why he did this. I think our best guess was that by sitting back maybe this saves energy for the second half, but obviously not.

    This is fine away from home and worked out well at Norwich, but need to be a lot more positive at home against the lower placed teams.

    Totally agree!
  • If only there was some sort of post-match thread to discuss these things.

    Brum switched to 442 after the goal and we switched to combat that.

    Cousins on the wing though?
  • It all goes back to playing 1 up top at home, Igor is up against 3 or 4 players at times and unless we hit a perfect ball to him, it breaks down and comes straight back down our throats putting us under pressure the whole time. We need a big man up top to hold the ball up and play from pressing them further up the pitch instead of them pinning us in our half. This also leads to when we break we are to deep with lack of options and so the ball ends up coming back from there box to our defence ok keeping the ball but taking the heat off and letting them regroup
  • Can't stand Lee Clark, but he changed their shape as soon as we went 1 up. It began to cause us problems (particularly Cotterill who I though had a superb game) and Bob changed to match up.

    The game plan to play from the back - which I though Morrison adapted to really well - was stopped by their two front runners sticking closely to Bikey and Morrison. It will be interesting to see if other teams attempt to stop this.

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  • It was Helmuth von Moltke (Chief of the German General Staff at the outbreak of WW1) who said, "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy". When your plan meets the real world, the real world wins.

    Bob Peeters has a tactical plan for each game, but unfortunately the opposition have one too and, moreover, have usually prepared to counteract our plan. If we surprise them they'll adjust during the game, as Lee Clark appeared to do yesterday.

    Also, Peeters' tactical plan is the art of the feasible. He has to work with the players available to him.

    I'm sure he'd like to play a target man alongside Vetokele, as indeed he did in our opening games, but there isn't really anybody who appears to be good enough, unfortunately.

    I wouldn't be surprised either if he'd like another quality, "footballing" midfield player to play alongside or just infront of Buyens, but it's clear that we are going to use the loan window only sparingly, for understandable reasons. That also limits his options, for now. And makes it easier for our opponents to counteract our tactical plan.

    The January window will be interesting.
  • Addickted said:

    Can't stand Lee Clark, but he changed their shape as soon as we went 1 up. It began to cause us problems (particularly Cotterill who I though had a superb game) and Bob changed to match up.

    The game plan to play from the back - which I though Morrison adapted to really well - was stopped by their two front runners sticking closely to Bikey and Morrison. It will be interesting to see if other teams attempt to stop this.

    Yep, that is how I saw it.

    As Mundell says there is always another manager and another team trying to stop us having it all our own way.

    It does surprise me how often posts on here, like the OP, take no account of what the other team are doing.
  • Problem for the Visionary One is that supporters are not going to want to pay out for 15 minutes of football and pulled pork.
  • Disagree.

    I thoroughly enjoyed the game yesterday - particulalry with the changes in formation and how the 'coaches' dealt with it as the pendulum swung one way then the other.

    Technically the football this year is light years away from what we're used to. Unfortunately too many fans seem to want the up 'em, bash 'em, smash 'em old skool English style and struggle to see the 'niceties' of standing off the opposition and keeping our shape when they have possession - it's certainly worked so far.

    Zonal Marking? Always thought it was rubbish, but have we let a goal in direct from a set piece yet?

    Passing backwards? No. It's keeping possession and looking for options. Did you know Birmingham didn't touch the ball for almost the first two minutes of the game? They're hardly likely to score from that position.

    No doubt we need to fill some gaps - just looking at the other squads in this League shows you we are a couple of experienced pros short. It will be interesting if Bob can do anymore business in the next international break.
  • 4 zonal marking goals conceded. Brighton x 2, wolves and yesterday. 8 points tossed away.
  • Addickted said:

    Can't stand Lee Clark, but he changed their shape as soon as we went 1 up. It began to cause us problems (particularly Cotterill who I though had a superb game) and Bob changed to match up.

    The game plan to play from the back - which I though Morrison adapted to really well - was stopped by their two front runners sticking closely to Bikey and Morrison. It will be interesting to see if other teams attempt to stop this.

    Agreed, and the problem Bob has is we still don't quite have the strength in depth to really change things up a lot. Tucudean still hasn't quite got it together and Igor can't do it all alone, but we don't have that big strong guy to throw on, or a central midfielder who will take a long range shot (Jackson would if his legs let him but those days are passing fast.) Shut down Igor and we have nothing up front, get into the centrebacks and you pretty much nullify the midfield by default. What we do, we do well, but it's not exactly difficult to counter.
  • 4 zonal marking goals conceded. Brighton x 2, wolves and yesterday. 8 points tossed away.

    Happy to accept one of the Brighton goals. The other three weren't as a result of the zonal marking system though as they weren't direct from the set piece. Players not being picked up and given time for 2nd stage was the problem.

    Counter that with not a single Middlesbrough corner or free kcik went directly to a Middlesbrough player (from what I can remember).

  • I sort of agree with Choice except for my money it's not "fine" away from home either.

    Clark changed things around because what we were doing was working. Couldn't we at least have a spell playing the same positive way before retreating? You never know we might actually get a second goal. Or a third. Surely you change your shape because the other side are hurting you, not vice versa? Never understand why teams that have taken the lead stop playing the way that got them into that position. But it is the Charlton way, or has been since the days of Killer Flash and Paddy...
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