Probably not BP. Most likely RD is sticking to 'see where we are in Jan with current squad'
Rightly/wrongly, I think the squad we've got is the one we'll take into Jan. I think we'll add a couple in Jan regardless of where we are, because the squad is too stretched. Hopefully we'll still be in with a shout by then
Football League paper had interview with Bob who had positive discussions with RD about January additions.
I think having a successful youth player conveyor belt is central to Roland's plans and also why Roland chose Peeters as his Head Coach. A coach on record as stating he likes to give youth a chance. Who can argue with it as a philosophy. It works for me as long as the club recognises that there will be peaks and troughs in the amount of young players good enough to break through and when there isn't then money is made available.
It seems some sensible additions will be needed to be anything more than mid table so it depends if RD wants to go not-quite-all-in sooner or later. Will we still be as interesting next season when we'll surely be worth more than the chaff all he paid for us last season?
Will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens when the league clubs vote on changing the FFP rules soon and then when the FFP penalties kick in.
Roland's plans seem to rest heavily on FFP railing in the big spenders and so making our "the kids are alright" policy viable.
Really some people disappointed we didn't get Grant Holt he was ok a few years back but not now.Danny Graham would of been a good one to get in because on his day is a very good striker at this level.The one I would like to see get some game time down here is Gayle from Palace
I think this thread is a waste of time, RD is never going to get in any loans, they will not make him any sell on money. He has made it quite plain, he will being through youngsters or a cheap buy somewhere, with the intention of selling at a profit later (see SL). I must admit I love reading about rumours as well, but there is no chance we will get any.
I think this thread is a waste of time, RD is never going to get in any loans, they will not make him any sell on money. He has made it quite plain, he will being through youngsters or a cheap buy somewhere, with the intention of selling at a profit later (see SL). I must admit I love reading about rumours as well, but there is no chance we will get any.
I fear this to be the case, that unless we are in complete dire situation the only loans outside the transfer windows will be if a youngish player is looking for a cheap/free transfer away from their parent club, i doubt Roland is interested in nurturing talent from outside the network no matter how much it may boost our chances in the short term.
More likely that Vetekole will be sold in January at a profit if he keeps scoring at this level than there is of anyone else coming in at the moment.RD has said that he is all about moving young successful guys on to make his return on investment.Look at what he has done at Standard Liege moving on their big stars and where they are now in their league.BB is going to have to make do with our youth and possibly network loans unless a young and relatively cheap Belgian / Dutch player with a sell on value becomes available eg that defender we were linked with last week .Not saying that players won't come in just not a loan such as Holt or Graham .
I think this thread is a waste of time, RD is never going to get in any loans, they will not make him any sell on money. He has made it quite plain, he will being through youngsters or a cheap buy somewhere, with the intention of selling at a profit later (see SL). I must admit I love reading about rumours as well, but there is no chance we will get any.
this. We all know there will be no loans. What (UK) loans have there been since RD took over? None that i can think of. Its gonna be the same old diet of youth and/or Belgian rejects.
I think this thread is a waste of time, RD is never going to get in any loans, they will not make him any sell on money. He has made it quite plain, he will being through youngsters or a cheap buy somewhere, with the intention of selling at a profit later (see SL). I must admit I love reading about rumours as well, but there is no chance we will get any.
this. We all know there will be no loans. What (UK) loans have there been since RD took over? None that i can think of. Its gonna be the same old diet of youth and/or Belgian rejects.
I think this thread is a waste of time, RD is never going to get in any loans, they will not make him any sell on money. He has made it quite plain, he will being through youngsters or a cheap buy somewhere, with the intention of selling at a profit later (see SL). I must admit I love reading about rumours as well, but there is no chance we will get any.
this. We all know there will be no loans. What (UK) loans have there been since RD took over? None that i can think of. Its gonna be the same old diet of youth and/or Belgian rejects.
I think this thread is a waste of time, RD is never going to get in any loans, they will not make him any sell on money. He has made it quite plain, he will being through youngsters or a cheap buy somewhere, with the intention of selling at a profit later (see SL). I must admit I love reading about rumours as well, but there is no chance we will get any.
this. We all know there will be no loans. What (UK) loans have there been since RD took over? None that i can think of. Its gonna be the same old diet of youth and/or Belgian rejects.
Petrucci lol
I see Petrucci is now playing for Cluj in Rumania.
The whole 'relying on youth' thing is a smokescreen to justify lack of investment. Only 4 players have come through the youth team to establish themselves in the past 4 years, Solly,Cousins,Jenkinson and Poyet. Two of them left after half a season and one is semi crocked. Of the current bunch none have yet come close to establishing themselves, Fox is the closest. Gomez and KAG have played 2 games each in total game time.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but suspect that part of the problem was Powell's reluctance to give youth a chance .. the current crop of CAFC young players aged from (say) 17 to 21 contains some decent prospects .. yes we might well need a loanee or two, but youth must be given a chance when appropriate otherwise why spend lots of dosh on youth development and the academy
Hang on, I don't think it's fair to say Powell was reluctant to give youth a chance. He made Solly a central part of his team and gave Poyet and Cousins their debuts. That's three of the four young players who have established themselves. He also debuted Morgan Fox and Ade Azeez, and probably more that I can't remember. Hardly anti-youth players was he
Only 4 players have come through the youth team to establish themselves in the past 4 years, Solly,Cousins,Jenkinson and Poyet. Two of them left after half a season and one is semi crocked. Of the current bunch none have yet come close to establishing themselves, Fox is the closest. Gomez and KAG have played 2 games each in total game time.
Jenkinson - 8 appearances. Harriott 51 - yet you leave his name out?
The whole 'relying on youth' thing is a smokescreen to justify lack of investment. Only 4 players have come through the youth team to establish themselves in the past 4 years, Solly,Cousins,Jenkinson and Poyet. Two of them left after half a season and one is semi crocked. Of the current bunch none have yet come close to establishing themselves, Fox is the closest. Gomez and KAG have played 2 games each in total game time.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but suspect that part of the problem was Powell's reluctance to give youth a chance .. the current crop of CAFC young players aged from (say) 17 to 21 contains some decent prospects .. yes we might well need a loanee or two, but youth must be given a chance when appropriate otherwise why spend lots of dosh on youth development and the academy
Hang on, I don't think it's fair to say Powell was reluctant to give youth a chance. He made Solly a central part of his team and gave Poyet and Cousins their debuts. That's three of the four young players who have established themselves. He also debuted Morgan Fox and Ade Azeez, and probably more that I can't remember. Hardly anti-youth players was he
Agreed. A lot of it is to do with timing. For all we know, Powell might have been planning to introduce even more young players at a later stage in the season. Did he not also give Harriot his debut?
As for Riga....he brought a calmness to the squad which translated into the players relaxing and picking up some crucial results. Very much like Lennie did back in 1982/83 when he slowly but surely turned round a failing team and got the best out of players like Steve White.
The whole 'relying on youth' thing is a smokescreen to justify lack of investment. Only 4 players have come through the youth team to establish themselves in the past 4 years, Solly,Cousins,Jenkinson and Poyet. Two of them left after half a season and one is semi crocked. Of the current bunch none have yet come close to establishing themselves, Fox is the closest. Gomez and KAG have played 2 games each in total game time.
We paid €3m for Vetokele and him and some of the others must be on decent money. I think Pardew was the last manager / coach with that type of budget? We had a bid in for Delort and two others that didn't come off.
CAFC has fIve ways of acquiring players: academy, network loans, free agents, outright purchase and loans from outside. For whatever reason we are not utilising loans from outside? But we have used the other four and the initial results are impressive. Is it spin or reality when they say they are giving youth a chance? Gomez and Aherne-Grant look good prospects and I'm happy that 1/3 of our squad is from the academy - they are young and ideally most will improve with age and experience. It surely helps the academy to recruit the best it can if there is a clear path to the first team bench?
We will know by end November whether the approach has been correct or not...and we will get a good idea next Saturday. As SHG states:
I think having a successful youth player conveyor belt is central to Roland's plans and also why Roland chose Peeters as his Head Coach. A coach on record as stating he likes to give youth a chance. Who can argue with it as a philosophy. It works for me as long as the club recognises that there will be peaks and troughs in the amount of young players good enough to break through and when there isn't then money is made available.
It is central and an effective way to develop those players is put them on the first team bench and occasionally in the team. That way the club will have a much better view of what we have to do next summer to make the next step up. Anyone who is worried that progress stops here just think of the £20-25m Staprix have already spent acquiring and developing Cafc and then think of the FAPL deal of £65m for finishing bottom. It is my belief that every player at the club is being given their chance to stake a claim in the 2015-16 squad and that if progress continues at the same pace as the first 12 months then we will be in a very good place in 12 months time.
Make no mistake, Roland pulls the strings, Katrien and Bob follow his guidance but are two strong people who I am sure will argue their case when they have to. Roland is setting things up well for the future, the problem is that when we see ourselves in the top six we naturally think premiership ignoring the future plan which I believe will take us there with a team capable of staying there, and that's the difference.
The whole 'relying on youth' thing is a smokescreen to justify lack of investment. Only 4 players have come through the youth team to establish themselves in the past 4 years, Solly,Cousins,Jenkinson and Poyet. Two of them left after half a season and one is semi crocked. Of the current bunch none have yet come close to establishing themselves, Fox is the closest. Gomez and KAG have played 2 games each in total game time.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but suspect that part of the problem was Powell's reluctance to give youth a chance .. the current crop of CAFC young players aged from (say) 17 to 21 contains some decent prospects .. yes we might well need a loanee or two, but youth must be given a chance when appropriate otherwise why spend lots of dosh on youth development and the academy
Was Powell really that reluctant to give youth a chance? Didn't he give debuts to Pope, Harriott, Cousins, Fox, Lennon, Pigott and Poyet?
Make no mistake, Roland pulls the strings, Katrien and Bob follow his guidance but are two strong people who I am sure will argue their case when they have to. Roland is setting things up well for the future, the problem is that when we see ourselves in the top six we naturally think premiership ignoring the future plan which I believe will take us there with a team capable of staying there, and that's the difference.
Make no mistake, Roland pulls the strings, Katrien and Bob follow his guidance but are two strong people who I am sure will argue their case when they have to. Roland is setting things up well for the future, the problem is that when we see ourselves in the top six we naturally think premiership ignoring the future plan which I believe will take us there with a team capable of staying there, and that's the difference.
^^ - This - ^^
Dead right it's easy to see us as possible promotion contenders but we should be mindful that we could end up taking one step forward and then two steps back if we push for the Premiership.
I think Roland has a long term plan which involves both stability and viability. Why chuck oodles of cash securing a few places higher when FFP kicks in and we are on a more level playing field?
Let's be honest, the club is financially secure and has no ridiculous debts. Given the situations of many other clubs we are fortunate to be in that position. Compare it to a year ago.
Therefore if we want to build a premiership ready club without spending money we don't have (ie within FFP) then we have to firstly rely on our Academy and secondly to be patient.
Whilst I'm not suggesting we will be ultimately as successful as them, this is a similar approach that Man U took in taking the likes of Scholes and Giggs from men to boys. Man U was successful in no small part because of its attitude and ethos which started from Academy upwards - and also by having a manager who ruled that ethos with a rod of iron.
If we are patient and aim for promotion 2 or 3 years hence we might stand a chance of competing with other premiership clubs not just on the pitch but also financially - which is where the real battles will be in 3/4 years time.
The other aspect of FFP is that the levels of investment allowed drop season by season until clubs can only spend what they earn.
That means that clubs can't be outrageously funded by sugar daddies but it also means that clubs with lower gate and commercial income such as Charlton and those without parachute payments (again Charlton) are at a disadvantage.
A good academy and a good network abroad may allow us to bridge enough of that gap to gain promotion but it is by no means a guarantee that that will happen.
There is no doubt in my mind that we are much better off now under Roland's ownership that we were with the "mess" (KM) we had before and we no longer face the threat of administration (according to KM) that we did under TJ and MS.
But that doesn't mean that the current policy doesn't also have its drawbacks and frustrations.
One of those frustrations are that we are unlikely to splash out on relatively costly loans from the UK outside of the transfer windows regardless of how the team is doing.
Roland is playing a long game, which personally I think is better than a short term prem or crash policy or the last regime's post Kevin Cash no policy at all other than cut costs and sell, but it will frustrate many fans keen to see "just another two or three we need to push on" come in.
I keep saying it and I said it back in January when he took over. Roland will be good for us but it will be a bumpy ride
The other aspect of FFP is that the levels of investment allowed drop season by season until clubs can only spend what they earn.
That means that clubs can't be outrageously funded by sugar daddies but it also means that clubs with lower gate and commercial income such as Charlton and those without parachute payments (again Charlton) are at a disadvantage.
A good academy and a good network abroad may allow us to bridge enough of that gap to gain promotion but it is by no means a guarantee that that will happen.
There is no doubt in my mind that we are much better off now under Roland's ownership that we were with the "mess" (KM) we had before and we no longer face the threat of administration (according to KM) that we did under TJ and MS.
But that doesn't mean that the current policy doesn't also have its drawbacks and frustrations.
One of those frustrations are that we are unlikely to splash out on relatively costly loans from the UK outside of the transfer windows regardless of how the team is doing.
Roland is playing a long game, which personally I think is better than a short term crash or burn policy or the last regime's post Kevin Cash no policy at all other than cut costs and sell, but it will frustrate many fans keen to see "just another two or three we need to push on" come in.
I keep saying it and I said it back in January when he took over. Roland will be good for us but it will be a bumpy ride
As fans we're always looking at the next step immediately. It's easy to forget where we were 12 months ago both in terms of squad and ownership. We can see out until Jan, and if we buy in a striker then who is up there with Igor's quality then we'll be laughing. Either that or people will be saying that our midfield is weak and we should have bought a winger too.
To be honest I am not really keen on us calling in British based players who could be a gamble, like Graham and Holt. As others have said their best days are obviously behind them and as they are British players, I don't imagine the loan fees are cheap.
I think that Bob is hoping George could be that kind of target man for us, but it will take time.
I'm enjoying the youth getting a chance and each of them has done very well and given great cause for optimism that in a couple of seasons they could be decent championship players.
I don't expect promotion was on anyones radar at the beggining of the season and so no need for throwing cash to see if it pays off. As others have said, it is one thing to make a quick buck in promotion, but it is more important to be stable and maintain a decent consistency over a period of time.
Comments
On second thoughts, let's not make the charming Uwe's life any easier.
Roland's plans seem to rest heavily on FFP railing in the big spenders and so making our "the kids are alright" policy viable.
Bumpy ride.
Harriott 51 - yet you leave his name out?
As for Riga....he brought a calmness to the squad which translated into the players relaxing and picking up some crucial results. Very much like Lennie did back in 1982/83 when he slowly but surely turned round a failing team and got the best out of players like Steve White.
CAFC has fIve ways of acquiring players: academy, network loans, free agents, outright purchase and loans from outside.
For whatever reason we are not utilising loans from outside?
But we have used the other four and the initial results are impressive. Is it spin or reality when they say they are giving youth a chance?
Gomez and Aherne-Grant look good prospects and I'm happy that 1/3 of our squad is from the academy - they are young and ideally most will improve with age and experience. It surely helps the academy to recruit the best it can if there is a clear path to the first team bench?
We will know by end November whether the approach has been correct or not...and we will get a good idea next Saturday. As SHG states: It is central and an effective way to develop those players is put them on the first team bench and occasionally in the team. That way the club will have a much better view of what we have to do next summer to make the next step up.
Anyone who is worried that progress stops here just think of the £20-25m Staprix have already spent acquiring and developing Cafc and then think of the FAPL deal of £65m for finishing bottom.
It is my belief that every player at the club is being given their chance to stake a claim in the 2015-16 squad and that if progress continues at the same pace as the first 12 months then we will be in a very good place in 12 months time.
Dead right it's easy to see us as possible promotion contenders but we should be mindful that we could end up taking one step forward and then two steps back if we push for the Premiership.
I think Roland has a long term plan which involves both stability and viability. Why chuck oodles of cash securing a few places higher when FFP kicks in and we are on a more level playing field?
Let's be honest, the club is financially secure and has no ridiculous debts. Given the situations of many other clubs we are fortunate to be in that position. Compare it to a year ago.
Therefore if we want to build a premiership ready club without spending money we don't have (ie within FFP) then we have to firstly rely on our Academy and secondly to be patient.
Whilst I'm not suggesting we will be ultimately as successful as them, this is a similar approach that Man U took in taking the likes of Scholes and Giggs from men to boys. Man U was successful in no small part because of its attitude and ethos which started from Academy upwards - and also by having a manager who ruled that ethos with a rod of iron.
If we are patient and aim for promotion 2 or 3 years hence we might stand a chance of competing with other premiership clubs not just on the pitch but also financially - which is where the real battles will be in 3/4 years time.
That means that clubs can't be outrageously funded by sugar daddies but it also means that clubs with lower gate and commercial income such as Charlton and those without parachute payments (again Charlton) are at a disadvantage.
A good academy and a good network abroad may allow us to bridge enough of that gap to gain promotion but it is by no means a guarantee that that will happen.
There is no doubt in my mind that we are much better off now under Roland's ownership that we were with the "mess" (KM) we had before and we no longer face the threat of administration (according to KM) that we did under TJ and MS.
But that doesn't mean that the current policy doesn't also have its drawbacks and frustrations.
One of those frustrations are that we are unlikely to splash out on relatively costly loans from the UK outside of the transfer windows regardless of how the team is doing.
Roland is playing a long game, which personally I think is better than a short term prem or crash policy or the last regime's post Kevin Cash no policy at all other than cut costs and sell, but it will frustrate many fans keen to see "just another two or three we need to push on" come in.
I keep saying it and I said it back in January when he took over. Roland will be good for us but it will be a bumpy ride
I think that Bob is hoping George could be that kind of target man for us, but it will take time.
I'm enjoying the youth getting a chance and each of them has done very well and given great cause for optimism that in a couple of seasons they could be decent championship players.
I don't expect promotion was on anyones radar at the beggining of the season and so no need for throwing cash to see if it pays off. As others have said, it is one thing to make a quick buck in promotion, but it is more important to be stable and maintain a decent consistency over a period of time.