Feel a bit sorry for Pope now, a rule that every ref ignores and will ignore again at this weekends games has seen him punished and us eliminated.
Ref has done the right thing it would seem but when as a sport will we actually start seeing all officials using the same rulebook every game, rather then picking and choosing their personal "interpretation" seemingly at random each game.
Red god's memory is spot on. Also that was the first time it was given as the law had only been introduced the month before and petterson looked bemused,
To Paulie and Fanny, Hamer seeing red at orient after 6 mins for touching the ball outside the area was deemed a goal scoring opportunity. The law was altered for keepers when a certain goalie slid out of his area and was sent off. The powers that be decided this was too draconian, and a yellow should suffice.
If on the other hand Pope held on to the ball longer than 10 seconds i would be amazed if he was not warned prior as i have not seen this implemented for years when it was a 6 second rule.
To clarify - The free kick given was an indirect one (The ref raised his hand as it was taken and the Derby player tapped it before his mate had the shot that hit the wall)
When we were commentating, it appeared to be given and then taken outside the box. Haven't seen it back yet so can anyone confirm exactly where it was taken from?
Nobody in the ground seemed to know what was going on. Pope had already released the ball, punting it over the halfway line, before the referee blew the whistle and booked him (He was shown the card whilst standing outside the box so I think thats why the CAFC Official tweeters thought it was the booking for taking it outside the box)
I'm not really certain Pope had been time wasting enough to justify the decision.
Bob was upset with the ref (I've written a reaction piece for the News Shopper with quotes that will be out today hopefully) but happy with the performance from the young side. I thought we defended well, made it difficult for Derby to get the ball in the box too often first half.
I thought Callum looked lively first half, but Shotton defended well. We had a few chances in the first half and played some nice football at times.
Second half Derby came out and dominated, and deserved the victory. But from out point of view we shouldn't be too despondent. In the admittedly few times we went forward, we did attack with pace and look like we could score on our forays forward, whereas last season when we went forward it barely looked like we could pass the halfway line!
Hope you guys enjoyed the commentary- my third time covering for one of Pete or Terry and I've finally lost my unbeaten run!
Defensively, our two banks of four were disciplined and hard to break down. Offensively, we didn’t show much. Derby were sharper, had better movement and won almost all the second balls. Although we looked to pass the ball, we had trouble gaining and retaining possession, and never really threatened. In fact for the first nine minutes of the second half (yes, I timed it) I don’t think we had control of the ball at all. It seemed inevitable that sooner or later they would score. Pope ensured it was later. In terms of individuals:
Goalkeeper Pope’s shot-stopping was excellent. Still more to do on crosses and much more on distribution, but he’s a good keeper who looks like he will become a very good one.
Full back Everyone who has seen Gomez says he’s exceptional and he was very good again last night. Fox is steady and reliable. Lack of pace will be a problem at times, and use of the ball is limited at present.
Centre backs Morrison was Morrison - solid, but lacking Bikey’s skill and assurance on the ball.
CM Jackson and Cousins worked hard defensively, but had limited impact going forward. Cousins was careless with his passing. He is strong physically and has a good attitude. I’m sure he will steadily improve, but in the eight or nine times I’ve seen him, I’ve not seen him show as much promise as others have spoken of. I’m not sure we’ve found his best position yet.
Wide midfield Wilson must be a dream for a full back to play behind; his defensive work was excellent, but limited contribution last night creatively. Harriott also worked hard defensively, but remains frustrating when he has the ball.
Strikers George and Moussa had only scraps to work with. I was disappointed with George; he won very little in the air and wasn’t strong enough in his hold-up play. I thought Moussa played well, retaining possession even under strong pressure.
This was my first match this season. I had hoped to see more of the fluent passing that it seems we have shown in other games, but it was a bit pedestrian last night. No doubt the missing players made a difference.
I wasn't there but in theory there should be no confusion over the decision. If it was indirect then it had to be for time wasting, but then it should have been taken inside the box. If it was for handball it would be a direct fk just outside the bx. How can two completely different offences and scenarios become so confused?
Saying that don't really care too much about the result. All part of the ongoing process of change which is still to early to determine how good we are or will become this season.
30 seconds in. Free kick is taken from just inside the area, and as it's also indirect then it has to be for time wasting not handball. Saying that it wasn't really the main factor leading to the goal. Messing up trying to run the ball out with 3 players around you did.
Was that Igor picking up the charged down loose ball, trying to run with it just outside the box and being closed down? With no outlet, should've cleared his lines in that position or toed the ball into space beyond those 2 defenders and hared after it.
Very strong run by their number 9 to set up the goalscorer.
Had a dream last night that we were thrashed 5-0 by Derby! So I got up this morning feeling very nervous. Disappointed to see that we did lose but I felt somewhat relieved it was not a result as embarrassing as in my dream... Like almost everyone else, I think the league is much more important and I'd be absolutely gutted if any of our players got injured in these cup games.
Swings and Roundabouts. Got away with a pentalty not given against us on Saturday and not had the rub on the green on a referee's decision last night. Part and parcel of football
Swings and Roundabouts. Got away with a pentalty not given against us on Saturday and not had the rub on the green on a referee's decision last night. Part and parcel of football
Unless you're a Hudder's or Wednesday fan in which case it's a constant conspiracy and you never benefit.
"I don’t think the ref fancied extra-time, I think he needed to go home to his missus!"
While it might be too early to know how he'll shape up as a coach when things get tough, it does seem he at least has a sense of humour!
Hmm... Not that I mind, I think it's great, but don't managers get fined for comments like that?
Nailed on certainty, I would have said.
Equally certain is that the "authorities" will make no effort whatsoever to explain the ref's decision to the paying customers, while continuing to decry the average fan's ignorance of the laws.
I have seen other keepers given a yellow for time wasting and there be no free kick given. Is the rule different when kicking from hands rather than a goal kick?
Last year a cup run was important for FFP this season not , I mean look at mk dons cashing in on that big tie......
The cup run was a welcome distraction from a nasty relegation battle which threatened to send the club back several years.
On the financial side Winning through to the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds of the FA cup guarantees a televised quarter final and c£1m in TV, gate and prize monies. Plus another £1m+ if you make it to a Wembley semi... even if you lose! I haven't looked at the league cup finances but I expect they are significantly less, and with more games to play before the real money kicks in. Right now I think we have a better but thinner squad. Last week I would have taken three points in the league and a loss last night every time. Brighton (a) is important because it comes at the end of what was initially perceived as a tough set of opening fixtures - how many points did fans predict on this site before the start? Between 4 and 7?
From my own observations of three league games (not Huddersfield away), we need playing time but we need an injury to Vetokele or Gudmundsson like a hole in the head...that's why the league cup is, to me, a risk without too much reward.
By January we will know where we are in the table and what the club transfer policy is for that window...if we are just a few points off the play-offs should the club secure the services of more (better) players? Or should they wait until the summer when the youngest squad in the Championship is a year older?
Perhaps this (and the third round draw) will determine the clubs attitude to the 2015 FA Cup.
Personally I've now seen four losing FACup quarter finals - Old Trafford, Bolton ( on the big screen) Boro and now Sheffield Utd....And would love to see CAFC finally win one and then turn out at Wembley.
I have seen other keepers given a yellow for time wasting and there be no free kick given. Is the rule different when kicking from hands rather than a goal kick?
I think it has to be as the yellow at a goal kick is given before the ball is in play, whereas in kicking from hands it is in play and so I can't see any alternative for re-starting play other than a free kick to the other side.
Incidentally, the ref spoke to Pope as the players came off the field at half-time. Can't think what else he would have been saying other than telling him to speed up.
Maybe I'm an optimist or maybe I'm just naive. Either way, I appear to be in a minority of one because I was disappointed we didn't take last night's game more seriously.
The League is clearly the Club's bread and butter, but there is little practical difference between finishing 7th and 21st, unlike the situation in the Premier League. Odds are we'll end up comfortably in the middle of that range. The Brighton game is important, obviously, but at this stage of the season the players are fresh and, if anything, still getting truly match fit. In any event, post Brighton we have a two week break. I'm not clear what the downside of putting out our best side would have been. There is, of course, the risk of injury, but you can't wrap the players in cotton wool.
For me a good Cup run is potentially very attractive and exciting. Two seasons ago I saw Bradford at Wembley in the Final of this competition. Why not us? Or a lucky draw next round and then a big team at the Valley for a place in the last eight. Why not roll the dice?
There is clearly a benefit to giving first team squad members, who are not ordinarily in the starting XI, a game, Fox, Morrison, Harriott, for example. But there's a price to pay for that, at least in terms of the opportunity cost, and I for one regret that yet again the dream of a big night at the Valley, under floodlights, against a Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham or Liverpool or of a more winnable tie against a Villa or Sunderland, has yet again been extinguished without a real commitment to the competition having been made. Wouldn't a bit of luck in the Cup help to rebuild core support? It would certainly create interest.
We're not alone, of course. Nobody takes the competition seriously. Ironically though, this ought to favour any Club that takes a different view. An opportunity missed in my view though I am aware that I'm in a very small minority.
Had we beaten Derby, it would have been Reading at home. Yawn.
Yawn? Maybe, but a winnable game. They'll be at least seven teams from outside the Premier League in the last sixteen. Then it begins to get very interesting. No guarantees, obviously, but you need to roll the dice.
Comments
Ref has done the right thing it would seem but when as a sport will we actually start seeing all officials using the same rulebook every game, rather then picking and choosing their personal "interpretation" seemingly at random each game.
To Paulie and Fanny, Hamer seeing red at orient after 6 mins for touching the ball outside the area was deemed a goal scoring opportunity. The law was altered for keepers when a certain goalie slid out of his area and was sent off.
The powers that be decided this was too draconian, and a yellow should suffice.
If on the other hand Pope held on to the ball longer than 10 seconds i would be amazed if he was not warned prior
as i have not seen this implemented for years when it was a 6 second rule.
And no mention of the free kick which vexed us so much. I thought it clearly upset our shape and led to their goal.
When we were commentating, it appeared to be given and then taken outside the box. Haven't seen it back yet so can anyone confirm exactly where it was taken from?
Nobody in the ground seemed to know what was going on. Pope had already released the ball, punting it over the halfway line, before the referee blew the whistle and booked him (He was shown the card whilst standing outside the box so I think thats why the CAFC Official tweeters thought it was the booking for taking it outside the box)
I'm not really certain Pope had been time wasting enough to justify the decision.
Bob was upset with the ref (I've written a reaction piece for the News Shopper with quotes that will be out today hopefully) but happy with the performance from the young side. I thought we defended well, made it difficult for Derby to get the ball in the box too often first half.
I thought Callum looked lively first half, but Shotton defended well. We had a few chances in the first half and played some nice football at times.
Second half Derby came out and dominated, and deserved the victory. But from out point of view we shouldn't be too despondent. In the admittedly few times we went forward, we did attack with pace and look like we could score on our forays forward, whereas last season when we went forward it barely looked like we could pass the halfway line!
Hope you guys enjoyed the commentary- my third time covering for one of Pete or Terry and I've finally lost my unbeaten run!
Cheers, Louis.
Goalkeeper Pope’s shot-stopping was excellent. Still more to do on crosses and much more on distribution, but he’s a good keeper who looks like he will become a very good one.
Full back Everyone who has seen Gomez says he’s exceptional and he was very good again last night. Fox is steady and reliable. Lack of pace will be a problem at times, and use of the ball is limited at present.
Centre backs Morrison was Morrison - solid, but lacking Bikey’s skill and assurance on the ball.
CM Jackson and Cousins worked hard defensively, but had limited impact going forward. Cousins was careless with his passing. He is strong physically and has a good attitude. I’m sure he will steadily improve, but in the eight or nine times I’ve seen him, I’ve not seen him show as much promise as others have spoken of. I’m not sure we’ve found his best position yet.
Wide midfield Wilson must be a dream for a full back to play behind; his defensive work was excellent, but limited contribution last night creatively. Harriott also worked hard defensively, but remains frustrating when he has the ball.
Strikers George and Moussa had only scraps to work with. I was disappointed with George; he won very little in the air and wasn’t strong enough in his hold-up play. I thought Moussa played well, retaining possession even under strong pressure.
This was my first match this season. I had hoped to see more of the fluent passing that it seems we have shown in other games, but it was a bit pedestrian last night. No doubt the missing players made a difference.
Saying that don't really care too much about the result. All part of the ongoing process of change which is still to early to determine how good we are or will become this season.
Saying that it wasn't really the main factor leading to the goal. Messing up trying to run the ball out with 3 players around you did.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Pt-J-EysLbA
Very strong run by their number 9 to set up the goalscorer.
"I don’t think the ref fancied extra-time, I think he needed to go home to his missus!"
Unless you're a Hudder's or Wednesday fan in which case it's a constant conspiracy and you never benefit.
Peeters reaction is here.
newsshopper.co.uk/sport/charlton/11434975.Derby_free_kick_decision_hard_to_take_for_Charlton_midfielder/
And Moussa here
Equally certain is that the "authorities" will make no effort whatsoever to explain the ref's decision to the paying customers, while continuing to decry the average fan's ignorance of the laws.
On the financial side Winning through to the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds of the FA cup guarantees a televised quarter final and c£1m in TV, gate and prize monies. Plus another £1m+ if you make it to a Wembley semi... even if you lose!
I haven't looked at the league cup finances but
I expect they are significantly less, and with more games to play before the real money kicks in. Right now I think we have a better but thinner squad.
Last week I would have taken three points in the league and a loss last night every time.
Brighton (a) is important because it comes at the end of what was initially perceived as a tough set of opening fixtures - how many points did fans predict on this site before the start? Between 4 and 7?
From my own observations of three league games (not Huddersfield away), we need playing time but we need an injury to Vetokele or Gudmundsson like a hole in the head...that's why the league cup is, to me, a risk without too much reward.
By January we will know where we are in the table and what the club transfer policy is for that window...if we are just a few points off the play-offs should the club secure the services of more (better) players? Or should they wait until the summer when the youngest squad in the Championship is a year older?
Perhaps this (and the third round draw) will determine the clubs attitude to the 2015 FA Cup.
Personally I've now seen four losing FACup quarter finals - Old Trafford, Bolton ( on the big screen) Boro and now Sheffield Utd....And would love to see CAFC finally win one and then turn out at Wembley.
Incidentally, the ref spoke to Pope as the players came off the field at half-time. Can't think what else he would have been saying other than telling him to speed up.
The League is clearly the Club's bread and butter, but there is little practical difference between finishing 7th and 21st, unlike the situation in the Premier League. Odds are we'll end up comfortably in the middle of that range. The Brighton game is important, obviously, but at this stage of the season the players are fresh and, if anything, still getting truly match fit. In any event, post Brighton we have a two week break. I'm not clear what the downside of putting out our best side would have been. There is, of course, the risk of injury, but you can't wrap the players in cotton wool.
For me a good Cup run is potentially very attractive and exciting. Two seasons ago I saw Bradford at Wembley in the Final of this competition. Why not us? Or a lucky draw next round and then a big team at the Valley for a place in the last eight. Why not roll the dice?
There is clearly a benefit to giving first team squad members, who are not ordinarily in the starting XI, a game, Fox, Morrison, Harriott, for example. But there's a price to pay for that, at least in terms of the opportunity cost, and I for one regret that yet again the dream of a big night at the Valley, under floodlights, against a Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham or Liverpool or of a more winnable tie against a Villa or Sunderland, has yet again been extinguished without a real commitment to the competition having been made. Wouldn't a bit of luck in the Cup help to rebuild core support? It would certainly create interest.
We're not alone, of course. Nobody takes the competition seriously. Ironically though, this ought to favour any Club that takes a different view. An opportunity missed in my view though I am aware that I'm in a very small minority.