for what it's worth I think it is inherently wrong that someone can pay £150 for a ticket and then walk along and sit next to me for that price when I have paid £450 BUT it's not that person I blame but the Club ultimately for creating this situation.
for what it's worth I think it is inherently wrong that someone can pay £150 for a ticket and then walk along and sit next to me for that price when I have paid £450 BUT it's not that person I blame but the Club ultimately for creating this situation.
Wrong, yeah, but really not worth the hassle of putting it 'right'. Like so many things in life - we are where we are.
for what it's worth I think it is inherently wrong that someone can pay £150 for a ticket and then walk along and sit next to me for that price when I have paid £450 BUT it's not that person I blame but the Club ultimately for creating this situation.
Hmm, that's a tough one, Golfie or an 'A Blocker' sitting next to me, still blood is thicker than water. :-)
for what it's worth I think it is inherently wrong that someone can pay £150 for a ticket and then walk along and sit next to me for that price when I have paid £450 BUT it's not that person I blame but the Club ultimately for creating this situation.
Hmm, that's a tough one, Golfie or an 'A Blocker' sitting next to me, still blood is thicker than water. :-)
for what it's worth I think it is inherently wrong that someone can pay £150 for a ticket and then walk along and sit next to me for that price when I have paid £450 BUT it's not that person I blame but the Club ultimately for creating this situation.
Hmm, that's a tough one, Golfie or an 'A Blocker' sitting next to me, still blood is thicker than water. :-)
for what it's worth I think it is inherently wrong that someone can pay £150 for a ticket and then walk along and sit next to me for that price when I have paid £450 BUT it's not that person I blame but the Club ultimately for creating this situation.
Is it also then wrong that for season after season we've given away thousands of tickets, albeit on a match by match basis to groups who are usually put in the east or west wings and have had the same "freedom" to move to the middle and sit next to you/me? It's a bit ironic pointing out the non-policing of paying fans being in the right seats when nothing was in place to stop the freebies doing so in previous years.
I have always had the same seat and like as not always will.
However my take on A block is that if circumstances led me to buying there, then I would do a number of things. Firstly I would assume there will be no stringent checks regarding where I sit. Secondly I would buy in the expectation that we will hardly ever sell out and I can easily move to more central seats. Thirdly I would buy in the understanding that if we have a big crowd I would have to sit in A block. Fourthly I would think there was no harm in moving to a better seat if it isn't being used during any particular game.
I am not saying my approach would be right, but human nature being what it is, I would suspect many others may thing the same way...if the seat is empty anyway, what the harm?
The club would need to stringently police the East Stand to stop people moving.
But it's been happening for years!! You have been able to walk around the whole ground (apart from JS obviously) for yonks now! Christ do people really think that every person has always sat in their same actual seat before this season?? Seriously!??
I don't think I have sat in the seat shown on my ticket since the final game of the L1 winning season.
Ended up in the East from North Upper (via the lift) once.
But it's been happening for years!! You have been able to walk around the whole ground (apart from JS obviously) for yonks now! Christ do people really think that every person has always sat in their same actual seat before this season?? Seriously!??
I don't think I have sat in the seat shown on my ticket since the final game of the L1 winning season.
Ended up in the East from North Upper (via the lift) once.
During our first season back in the championship 12/13, on about 6 occasions I used my NU ST to get into the east stand, only once getting stopped by a turnstile operator (a wiley old man with eyes of a hawk).............
I think this is all silly yes iv paid £150 and £50 for my boy i like my seat (apart from when it rains) I and many others know we have got a bargain but surly at the end of the day we are all here for the same thing no matter how much you have spent it doesn't make me a pikie by buying a cheaper season ticket it just means I can have the best of both worlds by watching the team I love and not break the bank spending money on over priced football which means I have more money to spend on my other love my family (and also stay in the good books of the boss I mean wife)
I think this is all silly yes iv paid £150 and £50 for my boy i like my seat (apart from when it rains) I and many others know we have got a bargain but surly at the end of the day we are all here for the same thing no matter how much you have spent it doesn't make me a pikie by buying a cheaper season ticket it just means I can have the best of both worlds by watching the team I love and not break the bank spending money on over priced football which means I have more money to spend on my other love my family (and also stay in the good books of the boss I mean wife)
I don't think anyone is having a go at the people who bought the tickets other than in jest.
No one is a traitor or a cheapskate IMHO and it is a very good deal for fans, everyone agrees with that.
The issue is about the knock on problems caused that the club didn't consider such as segregation from away fans, stewarding, people migrating to other seats, other people seeing it as a loss of value in their more expensive seats, the club losing income, etc etc.
It's not the end of the world, it's not an issue to man the barricades for but when the club is trying to make more money and is already making staff redundant it's not something it can afford for long outside the premiership
So in the summer, if not earlier, there will be some difficult decisions to be made at the senior management level.
I think this is all silly yes iv paid £150 and £50 for my boy i like my seat (apart from when it rains) I and many others know we have got a bargain but surly at the end of the day we are all here for the same thing no matter how much you have spent it doesn't make me a pikie by buying a cheaper season ticket it just means I can have the best of both worlds by watching the team I love and not break the bank spending money on over priced football which means I have more money to spend on my other love my family (and also stay in the good books of the boss I mean wife)
I don't think anyone is having a go at the people who bought the tickets other than in jest.
No one is a traitor or a cheapskate IMHO and it is a very good deal for fans, everyone agrees with that.
The issue is about the knock on problems caused that the club didn't consider such as segregation from away fans, stewarding, people migrating to other seats, other people seeing it as a loss of value in their more expensive seats, the club losing income, etc etc.
It's not the end of the world, it's not an issue to man the barricades for but when the club is trying to make more money and is already making staff redundant it's not something it can afford for long outside the premiership
So in the summer, if not earlier, there will be some difficult decisions to be made at the senior management level.
I think that this is a good post and does raise some interesting issues. I am in favour of a range of ticket prices certainly and even I think the A block was not the best location.
I think on a positive note some people are coming along who who could not either afford to before or want the option of not committing to every game. I think that from that point if view this has scheme has potential.
Some people, myself included, will buy other tickets in the East stand. This is a good thing.
The issue re Stewarding however is a concern. What some have described as " banter" seems to get pretty heated on both sides (strangely the Birmingham fans were far from being the worst offenders).
The issue of moving seats is clearly happening in some cases but I think most people are staying put. I can understand why this might annoy some who have paid more for a seat however. That said there seem to be swathes of empty seats in that Stand so it is difficult to gauge this.
The one thing that does concern me however is that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. A lot of what has been said re moving seats is speculation. An empty seat in A block could be due to a holiday, illness, work or a range of other commitments. Indeed given that some people may have brought these tickets precisely because they may not be able to attend, this could be to be expected.
A photo of A block says little more than it would about any other partially empty bit if the Valley. It doesn't really give much meat on the bone in terms of information. If there are ging to be changes they should be made upon the best available information.
"If there are ging to be changes they should be made upon the best available information."
Which is exactly the point Airman Brown and others were making from the start.
The change was made without looking at the information available or consulting those, some still employed by the club, with the experience and knowledge to foresee the very predictable consequences.
"If there are ging to be changes they should be made upon the best available information."
Which is exactly the point Airman Brown and others were making from the start.
The change was made without looking at the information available or consulting those, some still employed by the club, with the experience and knowledge to foresee the very predictable consequences.
A hazy snap from the West Stand says nothing really niether does the subjective opinion of a fans with an axe to grind.Neither have some of the consequences been that predictable or obvious in some areas.
A hazy snap from the West Stand, together with a simple look at every home match, shows that the A Block, which is sold out and was full on the 1st game, is now less than half full.
The consequences of not ensuring people stay in the area that they have paid for, may not have been predictable to you, but they were to most others, as you will see from the start of this thread. I don't see the point of disputing the indisputable.
A hazy snap from the West Stand, together with a simple look at every home match, shows that the A Block, which is sold out and was full on the 1st game, is now less than half full.
The consequences of not ensuring people stay in the area that they have paid for, may not have been predictable to you, but they were to most others, as you will see from the start of this thread. I don't see the point of disputing the indisputable.
Not my intelligence. Everybody's bar you, if you didn't realise people would slope off to get a better view if permitted. It's called common sense. And for the umpteenth time, no one is suggesting the area is closed down. The point people are making, is that people should be sticking to the area that they have paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.
I sit elsewhere in the East Stand and there are often empty seats in my block, it wouldn't put me out if A block migrants sit in those empty seats, I would probably think good luck to 'em, as long as they don't sit in the seat bought by a regular/season ticket holder.
Up to a point I also think good luck to them & I'd likely do it myself. But it doesn't make it right & it is poorly managed, in fact not managed at all, by the club.
If I buy a £65 ticket at Lords, I can't access the £100 seats, because stewards check.
If I bought a Wimbledon ground ticket, I can't stroll into Centre Court etc.
If the club are going to allocate different seat prices in the same stand, they should steward it properly, end of.
It's not the fans fault & no one is saying it is.
It's poorly thought out and not managed at all, situation dreamt up by Ben Kensell. As was The Crossbars fiasco.
That is a fact and it is not having a dig at the club for no reason, anymore than praising the club for the pitch & doing up the stadium, is tugging your forelock at the club.
If the club are going to allocate different seat prices in the same stand, they should steward it properly, end of.
It's not the fans fault & no one is saying it is.
It's poorly thought out and not managed at all, situation dreamt up by Ben Kensell. .
The end blocks have been cheaper than central ones long before Ben kensell arrived at the club haven't they? not fair to lay the blame on him. just how was it stewarded back then? The answer is it wasn't. It's just now the monetary difference is larger, but still not as large as the unpoliced thousands of freebies given away in those same seats.
"If there are ging to be changes they should be made upon the best available information."
Which is exactly the point Airman Brown and others were making from the start.
The change was made without looking at the information available or consulting those, some still employed by the club, with the experience and knowledge to foresee the very predictable consequences.
A hazy snap from the West Stand says nothing really niether does the subjective opinion of a fans with an axe to grind.Neither have some of the consequences been that predictable or obvious in some areas.
From what you post it seems it is yopu who have an axe to grind. The rest of us are tying to have a rational debate.
If the club are going to allocate different seat prices in the same stand, they should steward it properly, end of.
It's not the fans fault & no one is saying it is.
It's poorly thought out and not managed at all, situation dreamt up by Ben Kensell. .
The end blocks have been cheaper than central ones long before Ben kensell arrived at the club haven't they? not fair to lay the blame on him. just how was it stewarded back then? The answer is it wasn't. It's just now the monetary difference is larger, but still not as large as the unpoliced thousands of freebies given away in those same seats.
"If there are ging to be changes they should be made upon the best available information."
Which is exactly the point Airman Brown and others were making from the start.
The change was made without looking at the information available or consulting those, some still employed by the club, with the experience and knowledge to foresee the very predictable consequences.
A hazy snap from the West Stand says nothing really niether does the subjective opinion of a fans with an axe to grind.Neither have some of the consequences been that predictable or obvious in some areas.
From what you post it seems it is yopu who have an axe to grind. The rest of us are tying to have a rational debate.
Well yeah! I moved from the North Stand and am happy in A Block!
I don't agree that this is entirely a rational debate . There is a lot of moaning for the sake of it going on. There are assumptions being made about empty seats that are just that, assumptions - unusually based up the the grouchy predudices of the a few people.
Some of the digs are meant in jest and some are not.
When I did agree with some of your points you had a go about that!
If the club are going to allocate different seat prices in the same stand, they should steward it properly, end of.
It's not the fans fault & no one is saying it is.
It's poorly thought out and not managed at all, situation dreamt up by Ben Kensell. .
The end blocks have been cheaper than central ones long before Ben kensell arrived at the club haven't they? not fair to lay the blame on him. just how was it stewarded back then? The answer is it wasn't. It's just now the monetary difference is larger, but still not as large as the unpoliced thousands of freebies given away in those same seats.
I think the point you make about the comps is a good one but as far as the bulk ones issued to schools and the community trust there is a bit of a difference because they aren't or shouldn't be issued to committed fans or available as an option to the same people every week.
The intention of these has been to encourage new supporters - usually kids - and in my experience most committed fans are willing to buy into that. I accept, of course, that these tickets do get abused, but with kids the monetary difference is not in fact as big, because they would only play £5/£10 in any event. With accompanying adults it would be.
The larger point, however, is about the perceived value of a ticket to the purchaser. We pay £20-£30 routinely not just because of the quality of the view or stand facilities or even the football but because we are Charlton fans and buy into the emotion attached to that, but to an uncommitted person the price is likely to appear disproportionate to the value. Hence it makes sense to try to hook them - a bit like dealing drugs, I guess.
It's a bit different when you are dealing with people who are interested enough to buy a season ticket, which is a considerable commitment of time as well as money. That's why I think there is a problem with adults being allowed to pay £150 and sit next to others who have paid £450. But as I said above I don't discount the idea that most of the empty seats belong to people who are not there at all. Typically, up to a fifth of ST holders don't turn up to any given game, whatever they have paid.
Either way, there's nothing substantial to be done about this now until next season and I don't criticise people who are exploiting the situation.
Comments
It's a bit ironic pointing out the non-policing of paying fans being in the right seats when nothing was in place to stop the freebies doing so in previous years.
However my take on A block is that if circumstances led me to buying there, then I would do a number of things. Firstly I would assume there will be no stringent checks regarding where I sit. Secondly I would buy in the expectation that we will hardly ever sell out and I can easily move to more central seats. Thirdly I would buy in the understanding that if we have a big crowd I would have to sit in A block. Fourthly I would think there was no harm in moving to a better seat if it isn't being used during any particular game.
I am not saying my approach would be right, but human nature being what it is, I would suspect many others may thing the same way...if the seat is empty anyway, what the harm?
The club would need to stringently police the East Stand to stop people moving.
As a rough estimate I would say 2-300
I think we should price that properly £150-200 and try to fill the end of the ground where the noise comes from
Ended up in the East from North Upper (via the lift) once.
No one is a traitor or a cheapskate IMHO and it is a very good deal for fans, everyone agrees with that.
The issue is about the knock on problems caused that the club didn't consider such as segregation from away fans, stewarding, people migrating to other seats, other people seeing it as a loss of value in their more expensive seats, the club losing income, etc etc.
It's not the end of the world, it's not an issue to man the barricades for but when the club is trying to make more money and is already making staff redundant it's not something it can afford for long outside the premiership
So in the summer, if not earlier, there will be some difficult decisions to be made at the senior management level.
I think on a positive note some people are coming along who who could not either afford to before or want the option of not committing to every game. I think that from that point if view this has scheme has potential.
Some people, myself included, will buy other tickets in the East stand. This is a good thing.
The issue re Stewarding however is a concern. What some have described as " banter" seems to get pretty heated on both sides (strangely the Birmingham fans were far from being the worst offenders).
The issue of moving seats is clearly happening in some cases but I think most people are staying put. I can understand why this might annoy some who have paid more for a seat however. That said there seem to be swathes of empty seats in that Stand so it is difficult to gauge this.
The one thing that does concern me however is that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. A lot of what has been said re moving seats is speculation. An empty seat in A block could be due to a holiday, illness, work or a range of other commitments. Indeed given that some people may have brought these tickets precisely because they may not be able to attend, this could be to be expected.
A photo of A block says little more than it would about any other partially empty bit if the Valley. It doesn't really give much meat on the bone in terms of information. If there are ging to be changes they should be made upon the best available information.
Which is exactly the point Airman Brown and others were making from the start.
The change was made without looking at the information available or consulting those, some still employed by the club, with the experience and knowledge to foresee the very predictable consequences.
The consequences of not ensuring people stay in the area that they have paid for, may not have been predictable to you, but they were to most others, as you will see from the start of this thread. I don't see the point of disputing the indisputable.
And for the umpteenth time, no one is suggesting the area is closed down. The point people are making, is that people should be sticking to the area that they have paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.
If I buy a £65 ticket at Lords, I can't access the £100 seats, because stewards check.
If I bought a Wimbledon ground ticket, I can't stroll into Centre Court etc.
If the club are going to allocate different seat prices in the same stand, they should steward it properly, end of.
It's not the fans fault & no one is saying it is.
It's poorly thought out and not managed at all, situation dreamt up by Ben Kensell. As was The Crossbars fiasco.
That is a fact and it is not having a dig at the club for no reason, anymore than praising the club for the pitch & doing up the stadium, is tugging your forelock at the club.
not fair to lay the blame on him.
just how was it stewarded back then? The answer is it wasn't. It's just now the monetary difference is larger, but still not as large as the unpoliced thousands of freebies given away in those same seats.
I don't agree that this is entirely a rational debate . There is a lot of moaning for the sake of it going on. There are assumptions being made about empty seats that are just that, assumptions - unusually based up the the grouchy predudices of the a few people.
Some of the digs are meant in jest and some are not.
When I did agree with some of your points you had a go about that!
The intention of these has been to encourage new supporters - usually kids - and in my experience most committed fans are willing to buy into that. I accept, of course, that these tickets do get abused, but with kids the monetary difference is not in fact as big, because they would only play £5/£10 in any event. With accompanying adults it would be.
The larger point, however, is about the perceived value of a ticket to the purchaser. We pay £20-£30 routinely not just because of the quality of the view or stand facilities or even the football but because we are Charlton fans and buy into the emotion attached to that, but to an uncommitted person the price is likely to appear disproportionate to the value. Hence it makes sense to try to hook them - a bit like dealing drugs, I guess.
It's a bit different when you are dealing with people who are interested enough to buy a season ticket, which is a considerable commitment of time as well as money. That's why I think there is a problem with adults being allowed to pay £150 and sit next to others who have paid £450. But as I said above I don't discount the idea that most of the empty seats belong to people who are not there at all. Typically, up to a fifth of ST holders don't turn up to any given game, whatever they have paid.
Either way, there's nothing substantial to be done about this now until next season and I don't criticise people who are exploiting the situation.