I'm sure the junior employees who were made redundant to save money this summer will be glad to hear it, especially as "budget is not an issue now". But haven't you been telling us all year that it is the major issue because of FFP?
We move on in hope, because that is the nature of football fans, but we don't forget the past and we particularly shouldn't allow Richard Murray to rewrite history.
Why is Murray so scared of Katrien Meire meeting Peter Varney, do you think? Probably because he knows his revisionist history of the last six years will collapse like a house of cards.
On the one hand you bemoan Richard Murray "constantly bringing up Varney" but isn't it you who brings him up on Charlton life approximately once a week! The previous owners (with Varney) appointed Powell and built a squad to get us out of League 1. They then kept us there with reducing losses and sold the club as a going concern. As far as I'm concerned non footballing staff matters are never fair game for public discussion... And I mean never. It is you who chooses to leak and leverage redundancies at a time of your choosing to fit with your agenda. Clearly you would have had a field day if we had been relegated. Ideally under Duchatelet we will move further and further away from the bottom six.
I'm sure the junior employees who were made redundant to save money this summer will be glad to hear it, especially as "budget is not an issue now". But haven't you been telling us all year that it is the major issue because of FFP?
We move on in hope, because that is the nature of football fans, but we don't forget the past and we particularly shouldn't allow Richard Murray to rewrite history.
Why is Murray so scared of Katrien Meire meeting Peter Varney, do you think? Probably because he knows his revisionist history of the last six years will collapse like a house of cards.
On the one hand you bemoan Richard Murray "constantly bringing up Varney" but isn't it you who brings him up on Charlton life approximately once a week! The previous owners (with Varney) appointed Powell and built a squad to get us out of League 1. They then kept us there with reducing losses and sold the club as a going concern. As far as I'm concerned non footballing staff matters are never fair game for public discussion... And I mean never. It is you who chooses to leak and leverage redundancies at a time of your choosing to fit with your agenda. Clearly you would have had a field day if we had been relegated. Ideally under Duchatelet we will move further and further away from the bottom six.
This is just drivel, isn't it? We both know and so do many others that you are Murray's stooge and that various other people on here post information from him on a less gullible basis. Murray is a constant presence on here, he just hides behind other people. Remember I worked with him as local sports reporter and editor for nine years, as well as supporters' club secretary, and then as the club's head of comms for five. I know exactly how he operates. I think he did great things for the club and have duly credited him, including in my revised book this month. He and Martin Simons are the reason we got back to The Valley, never mind what happened subsequently. I don't and won't allow what happened post 2006 to colour my views about what he did before that, but Murray is not just his public persona. Few of us are.
Most people who worked at The Valley during their time know what the previous owners were about, whether or not they left as a result. They did a great deal of damage to the well-being of the club, the business, its staff, the infrastructure (by neglect) and they came close to wrecking the team again, but they managed to get out in time - largely thanks to Dennis Wise, improbably. If we had been relegated it would have been a complete disaster and I am not sure if the club would ever have recovered from it, so no I wouldn't have "had a field day". I thought it was a terrifying prospect. Duchatelet's installation of Riga may have been crucial, but we don't and can't know. People will look at that through their own preconceptions. His interventions in team matters, on the other hand, were foolish and pigheaded. The fact he got away with it doesn't mean they were all acts of genius, as any sensible person would acknowledge.
What needed to happen once the previous regime were out of the way was a rapprochement between the club and all the people who care about Charlton, which goes well beyond ex-employees. I am not convinced by Duchatelet because of what I've seen and heard, but I am open-minded. Unfortunately, Murray stands in the way of any constructive engagement because he cannot accept the reality of what happened or his role in it. He is frantically spinning a false version of the past to protect his reputation, including bad-mouthing Peter Varney privately and publicly as the cause of the problems. And some people are taken in by him.
People like Peter and myself will always be Charlton fans. We and many others have a great deal of knowledge and experience about how the club works and we'd always be happy to share that with people in control who want the club to be a success, not for personal financial gain but because we love Charlton. That's the same reason that so many of us put hours of time into the club in the 1980s and 90s to get it back to The Valley and build it up again when it had, or indeed set up the first Charlton website and Valley Express.
If you were the club's new CEO, wouldn't you find it useful to talk to your long-serving predecessors, even if only to increase your understanding of the business? It's just common sense. Murray has never run the club on a day to day basis and has a thin grasp of detail away from the football, in my experience. He stands in the way of what could be a productive discussion because it threatens his narrative and in my view for no other reason. Sooner or later, however, he will be overwhelmed by the truth, because whatever else RD and KM are I doubt they are stupid enough to be taken in by RM.
Personally, there have been times over the last 18 months when I've lost the plot on here because of the spiteful, lying, bullying people I had to deal with, the effect it had on my family and my life, and what I could see happening to many good friends and Charlton people, who in some cases were less able to return the blows than I was. Nevertheless it was traumatic and very stressful, for which money is no real compensation, although it helps pay the bills. So I accept some of the criticism made of me on here as valid, but if you only see one side of an argument taking place then you can't really know what's going on.
I have no reason to be bitter towards the current regime and I'm not. They'll get my views on what they are doing one way or another, as you'd expect after 25 years, and If they prove to be good for Charlton then they will have my support, but so far it's been a very mixed record. Your blind optimism is no more than propaganda and you aren't even consistent from one week to the next. Hope is a drug and we all take it, but we can't know the future.
All of which might stack up, if it wasn't common knowledge at the time that there was a big row about the fact that Powell played Alnwick over Thuram at Doncaster and more generally that RD had told Thuram he would play at Charlton.
I don't know why Alnwick dropped out of the Boro game so maybe there is something in the prior knowledge argument relating to that. My assumption has always been that Powell picked Thuram under pressure and Alnwick developed a diplomatic injury because he wasn't prepared to sit on the bench in that situation. But perhaps that is unfair.
However, Alnwick then returned for the two cup games before Doncaster. This may have been acceptable to RD because of the traditionally lower status of cup games on the continent and to some extent here now as well? Around the Doncaster game in transfer week, however, there was chaos and this was reflected in the very poor performance and attitude of the players. I was there and I know what I saw.
I was surprised, talking to my TG source, at the stress placed on the departure of Alnwick as a factor in the breakdown in relations between CP and RD. Further, I think Alnwick only signed to the end of the season at Orient anyway, which makes no sense of the two-year argument. My understanding has been that he was removed by RD to force Powell to play Thuram, which initially he did, even when Hamer was on the bench against QPR.
As time went on, however, it became clear that he couldn't accommodate RD's team selection preferences without compromising himself, as well as the team, hence the SUFC showdown.
Don't you think Katrien would just call Peter and go for a coffee if she wanted to meet him?
I would love to think that Katrien now has the confidence (as it isn't all so new any more) to meet some people previously associated with the club for a cup of tea or coffee, and begin to make her own mind up if those people have anything to offer.
Personally I am an older supporter, and I have done a few bits and pieces in and around the club and not wanted, or been paid a penny piece.
Supporters like me, or Fanny for example, love the club and want it to thrive and we contribute whatever we can manage. I recognise that Peter Varney and Rick were also such supporters long before they earned anything from Charlton, and their contributions then were also free, gratis, because like Fanny and I and many others they love the club and want it to thrive.
I can't see what Katrien would lose from listening to offers of help from the old guard as well as the new if such offers were out there. My perception is that Katrien is somebody of great personal integrity, and is also well sussed enough to separate wheat from chaff.
I am NOT seeking to dig anybody out, but I am curious as to the season ticket sales so far. The reason I mention this is that however divided our Charlton family might be, EVERYBODY would love to see a full Valley. Maybe getting attendances up is something everybody can make a positive contribution towards, and such efforts would unite us more strongly.
Don't you think Katrien would just call Peter and go for a coffee if she wanted to meet him?
Not if her motivation to do so is limited and Murray's hostility to the idea is vehement to the extent it will create bad feeling. I don't blame KM - she only has one side of the story.
Don't you think Katrien would just call Peter and go for a coffee if she wanted to meet him?
Not if her motivation to do so is limited and Murray's hostility to the idea is vehement to the extent it will create bad feeling. I don't blame KM - she only has one side of the story.
Does Richard Murray still carry that level of influence as a NED? I would be surprised if he did and if Katrien wanted to speak to you, Rick - or Reg or anyone else from the past - then I'm sure she would have the confidence and authority to do so.
we should rename this thread "The Gospel According to Airman Brown"
so AB you got a text 45 mins into the game against Middlesbro saying Thurman was a clown, so you really knew at that ponit how bad he was, I was at the match and he wasn't that bad he did let in a soft goal and his style was unconventional but he did only concede 1 goal, I'd have thought a clown would concede a few more?
so Murray is scared of KM meeting PV - another little pearl from your gospel against Murray - how do you know, pray tell or shut up!
I have said this elsewhere and I know it is an unpopular view.
Thuram is not a clown in my opinion . He is a European style goalkeeper who likes to punch rather than catch the ball . I do not think he would have got French U21 Caps if he had no ability. I have stated above that I genuinely believe Richard Murray's account that he was pitched in at the last minute against Boro and that his debut was not planned because of Alnwick's late withdrawal . I have given evidence as to why I think this version of events is credible .
I have not commented about the Doncaster or Sheffield United rumours .I have also stated that Ben Alnwick was in my view our best goalie since Kiely and Carson. Personally I was gutted to see him depart.
The goal Thuram conceded at the Riverside was poor and probably cost us a point , but I remember from the highlights he made a couple of good reaction saves as well. Maybe he could have done better with the late goals at Wigan or are we being too harsh ?
Yes I agree it was an error to bring in a Keeper who had no experience of English football at such a critical stage of the season and he was unsuited to the Championship and had no time to adapt .Now, Just to be clear I am not suggesting resigning him .However , it might have been more interesting to see how he would have adapted had he had a pre season with us.
A footnote . Who was in goal for Standard and kept a clean sheet when we lost 2-0 against them a couple of weeks ago?
I have said this elsewhere and I know it is an unpopular view.
Thuram is not a clown in my opinion . He is a European style goalkeeper who likes to punch rather than catch the ball . I do not think he would have got French U21 Caps if he had no ability. I have stated above that I genuinely believe Richard Murray's account that he was pitched in at the last minute against Boro and that his debut was not planned because of Alnwick's late withdrawal . I have given evidence as to why I think this version of events is credible .
I have not commented about the Doncaster or Sheffield United rumours .I have also stated that Ben Alnwick was in my view our best goalie since Kiely and Carson. Personally I was gutted to see him depart.
The goal Thuram conceded at the Riverside was poor and probably cost us a point , but I remember from the highlights he also made a couple of good reaction saves as well. Maybe he also could have done better with the late goals at Wigan or are we being too harsh ?
Yes I agree it was an error to bring in a Keeper who had no experience of English football at such a critical stage of the season and he was unsuited to the Championship and had no time to adapt .Now, Just to be clear I am not suggesting resigning him .However , it might have been more interesting to see how he would have adapted had he had a pre season with us.
A footnote . Who was in goal for Standard and kept a clean sheet when we lost 2-0 against them a couple of weeks ago?
I am about to buy myself a boat, I plan to Captain it myself.....The last people I will be asking for advice are Edward Smith and Francesco Schettino.
And yet if any one person associated with Charlton fits that analogy it is surely the man who appointed Dowie. And there he is at the helm again, proffering just such advice.
I am about to buy myself a boat, I plan to Captain it myself.....The last people I will be asking for advice are Edward Smith and Francesco Schettino.
And yet if any one person associated with Charlton fits that analogy it is surely the man who appointed Dowie. And there he is at the helm again, proffering just such advice.
But is it really being listened to and taken on board, or is it just a token position for your 'average' Charlton fan who feel reassured by the presence
The fella who saw fit to pay Curbs off and end his association early with the club and subsequently took his own footballing viewpoint of who to appoint as manager rather than take advice offered by Curbs himself offers no reassurance to me
The fella who saw fit to pay Curbs off and end his association early with the club and subsequently took his own footballing viewpoint of who to appoint as manager rather than take advice offered by Curbs himself offers no reassurance to me
Curbs had to go that summer as he had lost interest, it was just the way we appointed Dowie was poor. Murray did it to get back at Jordan. Appointing a management team before a manager also was a bad way of going about things.
Curbs was willing to do the last year of his contract but not extend it , he may have been tired but Murray eased him out the way .
With the SKY money significantly increasing after 'that' season to me it should have been safety first with Curbs , i mean seriously what players are bothered about managers contracts lengths , it's their own that matters to them , just ask our current Belgique/Euro collection of players and manager!
I have said this elsewhere and I know it is an unpopular view.
Thuram is not a clown in my opinion . He is a European style goalkeeper who likes to punch rather than catch the ball . I do not think he would have got French U21 Caps if he had no ability. I have stated above that I genuinely believe Richard Murray's account that he was pitched in at the last minute against Boro and that his debut was not planned because of Alnwick's late withdrawal . I have given evidence as to why I think this version of events is credible .
I have not commented about the Doncaster or Sheffield United rumours .I have also stated that Ben Alnwick was in my view our best goalie since Kiely and Carson. Personally I was gutted to see him depart.
The goal Thuram conceded at the Riverside was poor and probably cost us a point , but I remember from the highlights he made a couple of good reaction saves as well. Maybe he could have done better with the late goals at Wigan or are we being too harsh ?
Yes I agree it was an error to bring in a Keeper who had no experience of English football at such a critical stage of the season and he was unsuited to the Championship and had no time to adapt .Now, Just to be clear I am not suggesting resigning him .However , it might have been more interesting to see how he would have adapted had he had a pre season with us.
A footnote . Who was in goal for Standard and kept a clean sheet when we lost 2-0 against them a couple of weeks ago?
Except he doesn't punch it does he? He misses or gives it straight to an opponent. This 'European style' argument is a kop-out. Buffon, Neuer and Courtois are European but you don't see them flapping at the ball every time it comes near them.
Wish the season would start, so we can move to something interesting, like football
FFS - If you didn't want to talk about Richard Murray and Thuram then why did you open a thread entitled "Looks like Ben Alnwick will be signing for Riga..."....
QPR didn't have one shot on target, and the Charlton goalkeeper (Thuram) still somehow managed to produce possibly the worst individual performance I've seen from anyone in our shirt in years. How can that even be possible?!
Comments
The previous owners (with Varney) appointed Powell and built a squad to get us out of League 1. They then kept us there with reducing losses and sold the club as a going concern.
As far as I'm concerned non footballing staff matters are never fair game for public discussion... And I mean never. It is you who chooses to leak and leverage redundancies at a time of your choosing to fit with your agenda.
Clearly you would have had a field day if we had been relegated. Ideally under Duchatelet we will move further and further away from the bottom six.
Most people who worked at The Valley during their time know what the previous owners were about, whether or not they left as a result. They did a great deal of damage to the well-being of the club, the business, its staff, the infrastructure (by neglect) and they came close to wrecking the team again, but they managed to get out in time - largely thanks to Dennis Wise, improbably. If we had been relegated it would have been a complete disaster and I am not sure if the club would ever have recovered from it, so no I wouldn't have "had a field day". I thought it was a terrifying prospect. Duchatelet's installation of Riga may have been crucial, but we don't and can't know. People will look at that through their own preconceptions. His interventions in team matters, on the other hand, were foolish and pigheaded. The fact he got away with it doesn't mean they were all acts of genius, as any sensible person would acknowledge.
What needed to happen once the previous regime were out of the way was a rapprochement between the club and all the people who care about Charlton, which goes well beyond ex-employees. I am not convinced by Duchatelet because of what I've seen and heard, but I am open-minded. Unfortunately, Murray stands in the way of any constructive engagement because he cannot accept the reality of what happened or his role in it. He is frantically spinning a false version of the past to protect his reputation, including bad-mouthing Peter Varney privately and publicly as the cause of the problems. And some people are taken in by him.
People like Peter and myself will always be Charlton fans. We and many others have a great deal of knowledge and experience about how the club works and we'd always be happy to share that with people in control who want the club to be a success, not for personal financial gain but because we love Charlton. That's the same reason that so many of us put hours of time into the club in the 1980s and 90s to get it back to The Valley and build it up again when it had, or indeed set up the first Charlton website and Valley Express.
If you were the club's new CEO, wouldn't you find it useful to talk to your long-serving predecessors, even if only to increase your understanding of the business? It's just common sense. Murray has never run the club on a day to day basis and has a thin grasp of detail away from the football, in my experience. He stands in the way of what could be a productive discussion because it threatens his narrative and in my view for no other reason. Sooner or later, however, he will be overwhelmed by the truth, because whatever else RD and KM are I doubt they are stupid enough to be taken in by RM.
Personally, there have been times over the last 18 months when I've lost the plot on here because of the spiteful, lying, bullying people I had to deal with, the effect it had on my family and my life, and what I could see happening to many good friends and Charlton people, who in some cases were less able to return the blows than I was. Nevertheless it was traumatic and very stressful, for which money is no real compensation, although it helps pay the bills. So I accept some of the criticism made of me on here as valid, but if you only see one side of an argument taking place then you can't really know what's going on.
I have no reason to be bitter towards the current regime and I'm not. They'll get my views on what they are doing one way or another, as you'd expect after 25 years, and If they prove to be good for Charlton then they will have my support, but so far it's been a very mixed record. Your blind optimism is no more than propaganda and you aren't even consistent from one week to the next. Hope is a drug and we all take it, but we can't know the future.
just call Peter and go for a coffee if she wanted to meet him?
Personally I am an older supporter, and I have done a few bits and pieces in and around the club and not wanted, or been paid a penny piece.
Supporters like me, or Fanny for example, love the club and want it to thrive and we contribute whatever we can manage. I recognise that Peter Varney and Rick were also such supporters long before they earned anything from Charlton, and their contributions then were also free, gratis, because like Fanny and I and many others they love the club and want it to thrive.
I can't see what Katrien would lose from listening to offers of help from the old guard as well as the new if such offers were out there. My perception is that Katrien is somebody of great personal integrity, and is also well sussed enough to separate wheat from chaff.
I am NOT seeking to dig anybody out, but I am curious as to the season ticket sales so far. The reason I mention this is that however divided our Charlton family might be, EVERYBODY would love to see a full Valley. Maybe getting attendances up is something everybody can make a positive contribution towards, and such efforts would unite us more strongly.
To me it conjures up romantic images of a really malleable turd.
so AB you got a text 45 mins into the game against Middlesbro saying Thurman was a clown, so you really knew at that ponit how bad he was, I was at the match and he wasn't that bad he did let in a soft goal and his style was unconventional but he did only concede 1 goal, I'd have thought a clown would concede a few more?
so Murray is scared of KM meeting PV - another little pearl from your gospel against Murray - how do you know, pray tell or shut up!
Thuram is not a clown in my opinion . He is a European style goalkeeper who likes to punch rather than catch the ball . I do not think he would have got French U21 Caps if he had no ability. I have stated above that I genuinely believe Richard Murray's account that he was pitched in at the last minute against Boro and that his debut was not planned because of Alnwick's late withdrawal . I have given evidence as to why I think this version of events is credible .
I have not commented about the Doncaster or Sheffield United rumours .I have also stated that Ben Alnwick was in my view our best goalie since Kiely and Carson. Personally I was gutted to see him depart.
The goal Thuram conceded at the Riverside was poor and probably cost us a point , but I remember from the highlights he made a couple of good reaction saves as well. Maybe he could have done better with the late goals at Wigan or are we being too harsh ?
Yes I agree it was an error to bring in a Keeper who had no experience of English football at such a critical stage of the season and he was unsuited to the Championship and had no time to adapt .Now, Just to be clear I am not suggesting resigning him .However , it might have been more interesting to see how he would have adapted had he had a pre season with us.
A footnote . Who was in goal for Standard and kept a clean sheet when we lost 2-0 against them a couple of weeks ago?
With the SKY money significantly increasing after 'that' season to me it should have been safety first with Curbs , i mean seriously what players are bothered about managers contracts lengths , it's their own that matters to them , just ask our current Belgique/Euro collection of players and manager!
we seem to have got off the subject title of the thread ...may i suggest someone open up a "why is Richard Murray still there " thread
QPR didn't have one shot on target, and the Charlton goalkeeper (Thuram) still somehow managed to produce possibly the worst individual performance I've seen from anyone in our shirt in years. How can that even be possible?!
Clown.