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I've Lost My Job

Some of you may not know me. I'm an infrequent poster but love this forum and am on it every day. I'm searching for some wise words on this situation I find myself in.

I have just had my contract of employment terminated having failed my probation review. Not sure if I can say much about it but I was working supporting young people within a London borough (not through the local authority). I absolutely loved it and developed great relationships with the majority of the twenty or so young people I worked with. I'm 26 and married and a bit concerned about the immediate future. I believe that there is sufficient grounds to make an appeal. I was wondering if anyone has any advice or could tell me whether they've had or known of a decision for dismissal being overturned on appeal? Would appreciate any comments.
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Comments

  • Probation review? Does this mean at you were in a fairly new job?
  • what would your grounds for appeal be? If people knew that they may have some more targeted advice. Every case is different, so it really depends on the individual circumstances.
  • Sorry to hear about your situation. I had cause to seek advice from a friend versed in employment law only last night, so you are in luck... sort of.

    I was made redundant and was considering an appeal. My friend asked on what grounds I would be making the appeal and any reasons I came up with she shot down. She said I could spend up to £500,000 on a case for unfair dismissal with a very small chance of it going my way. From what I told her, she felt that my former employers had followed procedure so basically I needed to move on.

    Your case may be very different but you need to have clear reasons why you feel the decision should be overturned. If you are convinced you've got a case best get some proper legal advice, which will cost (of course). Good luck.
  • Probation review? Does this mean at you were in a fairly new job?

    Yes, I had been there for six months
  • There are a few people on here who are HR specialists who maybe able to advise you off line confidentially. I would also suggest you call acas who give free advice which I have always found useful in my many disputes.
  • what would your grounds for appeal be? If people knew that they may have some more targeted advice. Every case is different, so it really depends on the individual circumstances.

    You're absolutely right, just didn't want to give an information overload. My job was supporting 16-21 year olds with general situations such as emotional support, housing, job hunting (ironic I know) etc. I loved it and was told by my manager that I was good at relating to and supporting the young people. Unfortunately, I was told that I didn't meet the minimum requirements due to forgetting to attend half a day of compulsory training, not obtaining customer gifts for an award (which I ensured was completed by another staff member otherwise I would have done it myself) and the biggie; a breach of confidentiality. I let it slip to a young person that another young person from our service had gone out for a drink with someone. Other than that, I feel I've given a lot to the role and got on really well with my team. When I said bye, there were three people there, two of them were holding back tears and couldn't believe what had happened as they had worked more closely with me than management and felt that it was extremely harsh.
  • Saga Lout said:

    HR spawn of the devil - not there for you, there to make sure the company doesn't get sued and their useless, weak managers don't say the wrong thing (IMHO).

    Think that's the legal department...
  • Dazzler21 said:

    Saga Lout said:

    HR spawn of the devil - not there for you, there to make sure the company doesn't get sued and their useless, weak managers don't say the wrong thing (IMHO).

    Think that's the legal department...
    No sign of the legal dept during discussions about my redundancy. HR were there to protect the company, just my experience and my opinion.
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  • Probation review? Does this mean at you were in a fairly new job?

    Yes, I had been there for six months

    I'm afraid you would need 2 years service before you could have a claim for unfair dismissal.

    Is there a procedure that the organisation has which would give you a right of appeal?

  • is there no chance of having a chat with them and trying to get an extended further 3 months probation, produce some good/positive examples of work you've done in your 6 months there and if necessary see if others can (and are willing) to back up your case?
  • edited July 2014
    Saga Lout said:

    HR spawn of the devil - not there for you, there to make sure the company doesn't get sued and their useless, weak managers don't say the wrong thing (IMHO).

    True enough sometimes but that because all the best ones work as consultants ; - )

    Sorry to hear of your situation.

    With probation questions a lot depends on the reasons why they say you've failed. I appreciate you might not want to get into details here, but I have some initial questions (I'm a union rep where I work). Have you had any meetings during the probation period where they have indicated that you might be at risk of failing? For example, where I am there are meetings after 1, 3, 5 and finally 6 months to ensure everything is on track. You should have been warned if there were any concerns so that the employer could discuss with you what needed to be put in place to ensure you didn't fail - this could be additional training, more regular supervision meetings with your manager (eg once a week) and then if these weren't working then they should have discussed extending your probation period as they have a legal obligation to avoid making you redundant if it possibly can be avoided. Did any of these things happen? If they didn't, you might have the beginnings of grounds for an appeal, though as others have said it really depends on the specifics of your situation. Of course, if you've fallen foul of any disciplinary procedures, code of ethics etc during your probation period than that would usually be grounds for failing probation.

    Happy to discuss if you want to inbox me directly.

    Sound advice.

    Legally you could appeal if you feel you were discriminated against. It would be very difficult to prove and be extremely stressful and time consuming as well as not going down too well with your next employer.

    My view would be to ask if your probation period can be extended along with a more support and training as you feel that you can still do the job but just need more support. point out you did make mistakes but they were the type of mistakes an inexperienced person would make, you've learnt from them and have otherwise done a good job.

    The breach of confidentiality is a big issue though so I can see why they would let you got, harsh as that sounds.

    Inbox me if you want to talk it over privately.
  • Richard J said:

    Probation review? Does this mean at you were in a fairly new job?

    Yes, I had been there for six months

    I'm afraid you would need 2 years service before you could have a claim for unfair dismissal.

    Is there a procedure that the organisation has which would give you a right of appeal?

    Yes, when I left the meeting, they presented me with a booklet which gives guidelines on how to appeal.
  • is there no chance of having a chat with them and trying to get an extended further 3 months probation, produce some good/positive examples of work you've done in your 6 months there and if necessary see if others can (and are willing) to back up your case?

    I did try that, but I probably didn't fight my case well in the meeting. I did put across how I have done the main part of the job well, which she (my team leader) agreed with.
  • is there no chance of having a chat with them and trying to get an extended further 3 months probation, produce some good/positive examples of work you've done in your 6 months there and if necessary see if others can (and are willing) to back up your case?

    I did try that, but I probably didn't fight my case well in the meeting. I did put across how I have done the main part of the job well, which she (my team leader) agreed with.
    Remember this might not be the team leaders decision or there may be divided opinions (especially from the person whose confidentiality you broke).

    Appeal, you have nothing to lose and someone higher up might take a more lenient approach.
  • Sorry to hear of your situation.

    With probation questions a lot depends on the reasons why they say you've failed. I appreciate you might not want to get into details here, but I have some initial questions (I'm a union rep where I work). Have you had any meetings during the probation period where they have indicated that you might be at risk of failing? For example, where I am there are meetings after 1, 3, 5 and finally 6 months to ensure everything is on track. You should have been warned if there were any concerns so that the employer could discuss with you what needed to be put in place to ensure you didn't fail - this could be additional training, more regular supervision meetings with your manager (eg once a week) and then if these weren't working then they should have discussed extending your probation period as they have a legal obligation to avoid making you redundant if it possibly can be avoided. Did any of these things happen? If they didn't, you might have the beginnings of grounds for an appeal, though as others have said it really depends on the specifics of your situation. Of course, if you've fallen foul of any disciplinary procedures, code of ethics etc during your probation period than that would usually be grounds for failing probation.

    Happy to discuss if you want to inbox me directly.

    Thank you, I really appreciate that. She certainly could have done more to help. We were having fortnightly meetings, but she failed to bring notes on any of the actions from the previous meetings at our last two one to ones and had forgotten to email them to me. Therefore, we weren't really able to discuss many of the main points as she couldn't remember them and our last one to one was so positive. I had no idea this was coming about a week or two later.
  • is there no chance of having a chat with them and trying to get an extended further 3 months probation, produce some good/positive examples of work you've done in your 6 months there and if necessary see if others can (and are willing) to back up your case?

    I did try that, but I probably didn't fight my case well in the meeting. I did put across how I have done the main part of the job well, which she (my team leader) agreed with.
    Remember this might not be the team leaders decision or there may be divided opinions (especially from the person whose confidentiality you broke).

    Appeal, you have nothing to lose and someone higher up might take a more lenient approach.
    Yeah, I think I'll give it a go. The person whose confidentiality I broke couldn't really care less as as far as she's concerned, it's a meaningless piece of information and she's revealed far worse things about herself.
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  • Hi mate, I work in local government and usually, it's your immediate line manager that makes the decision at 6 months.

    Did you have a 6 week, 12 week and 18 week probation review? If so, were there any indications that you were underperforming? Were these interviews carried out by your line manager?

    I don't think you are in a great place to be honest as the probation period is there for a good reason. I think it may be worth an appeal to either HR or someone further up the ladder than your line manager, at the very least you need to be told the reason you are not being kept on. It is also posible to have the probation period extended with maybe extra training provided. It's a difficult one, but good luck.
  • is there no chance of having a chat with them and trying to get an extended further 3 months probation, produce some good/positive examples of work you've done in your 6 months there and if necessary see if others can (and are willing) to back up your case?

    I did try that, but I probably didn't fight my case well in the meeting. I did put across how I have done the main part of the job well, which she (my team leader) agreed with.
    Remember this might not be the team leaders decision or there may be divided opinions (especially from the person whose confidentiality you broke).

    Appeal, you have nothing to lose and someone higher up might take a more lenient approach.
    Yeah, I think I'll give it a go. The person whose confidentiality I broke couldn't really care less as as far as she's concerned, it's a meaningless piece of information and she's revealed far worse things about herself.
    Yeah, I think I'll give it a go. The person whose confidentiality I broke couldn't really care less as as far as she's concerned, it's a meaningless piece of information and she's revealed far worse things about herself.

    Of course you should "give it a go" but make sure you are prepared before hand, so sit down and put together a log of all the meetings you can remember and the positives and how if they extended your probation you would contribute. Give them a case for for why they must keep you.

    As Henry said the confidentiality issue is a big concern and your comment

    "The person whose confidentiality I broke couldn't really care less as as far as she's concerned, it's a meaningless piece of information and she's revealed far worse things about herself."

    Worries me, if you said that in your meeting. Your approach to this should be "I realise that this is an important issue and whilst it was an aberration, I have learnt from it and can assure you I would not make such an error again."

    Good luck.
  • Please don't take this the wrong way mate, but during your probation period you failed to attend compulsory training, had other staff members complete tasks that had been given to you and you breached the confidentiality of one of the youngsters you were there to support.

    I'd say you have zero grounds for appeal!

    I would agree with Cafcdave here on this, you may have gotten away with it for one of the things you mentioned, but all 3 and specifically the confidentiality part I think you will not win any appeal. - sorry about that
  • Please don't take this the wrong way mate, but during your probation period you failed to attend compulsory training, had other staff members complete tasks that had been given to you and you breached the confidentiality of one of the youngsters you were there to support.

    I'd say you have zero grounds for appeal!

    harsh but true

    As Kap say it doesn't really matter if the person whose confidentiality you breached cares or not as it the fact you did it at all that will concern your managers.

    Still, appeal. Show you realise you've made mistakes, you've realised how important they are and have learnt from them. The sacking has been a big wake up call and you realise now what is needed to be a success. The organisation you work for is about giving people opportunities (the mission statement or values will say something like that) so what you are asking for is another opportunity. Quoting the values always sounds good to senior managers.

    Email it to your manager, HR, your managers' manager etc (but read the appeal procedure first and follow that) and see how it goes.
  • Please don't take this the wrong way mate, but during your probation period you failed to attend compulsory training, had other staff members complete tasks that had been given to you and you breached the confidentiality of one of the youngsters you were there to support.

    I'd say you have zero grounds for appeal!

    1 million percent this if this was actually a real thread . Welcome back Nathan
  • congratulations sw16 addick, let it go, sounds like liberation to me...now find something you enjoy doing, in a place you want to be, around people who have an interest in you and your goals! my axiom is, we are not here for a long time, we are here for a GOOD time! try it:>) i await the "oh, alright for him, he lives in el-lay" etc. responses;)))
  • congratulations sw16 addick, let it go, sounds like liberation to me...now find something you enjoy doing, in a place you want to be, around people who have an interest in you and your goals! my axiom is, we are not here for a long time, we are here for a GOOD time! try it:>) i await the "oh, alright for him, he lives in el-lay" etc. responses;)))

    If only life was so simple.

    I was desperate to train as a Rabbi when I was younger, but the rabbinical school wouldn't have me.

    Apparantly you have to be Jewish.
  • Addickted said:

    congratulations sw16 addick, let it go, sounds like liberation to me...now find something you enjoy doing, in a place you want to be, around people who have an interest in you and your goals! my axiom is, we are not here for a long time, we are here for a GOOD time! try it:>) i await the "oh, alright for him, he lives in el-lay" etc. responses;)))

    If only life was so simple.

    I was desperate to train as a Rabbi when I was younger, but the rabbinical school wouldn't have me.

    Apparantly you have to be Jewish.
    'kin zionists keeping it to themselves again;>))))))) before anyone explodes, there was a wink;>) ,,,and life IS simple addickted!
  • Addickted said:

    congratulations sw16 addick, let it go, sounds like liberation to me...now find something you enjoy doing, in a place you want to be, around people who have an interest in you and your goals! my axiom is, we are not here for a long time, we are here for a GOOD time! try it:>) i await the "oh, alright for him, he lives in el-lay" etc. responses;)))

    If only life was so simple.

    I was desperate to train as a Rabbi when I was younger, but the rabbinical school wouldn't have me.

    Apparantly you have to be Jewish.
    Did the chief Rabbi give you that tip, he normally takes them.
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