To just catch a club like spurs to finish 6th we would need 150 or 170 million on players
I forgot about that 170 million that Everton spent!
I see where NLA was coming from there.
There was a great post on a Man Utd forum recently about Spurs which was an interesting read and I agree with most of it...its a long'un but worth a read...
He'd taken them as far as Tottenham could go. That's what in my opinion fans of all clubs, not just Spurs and the media get things wrong. In my opinion the majority of people who follow football don't seem to recognize the extent to which a club is limited by it's financial strength. The fact this thread exist kind of demonstrates that. Spurs will have the 7th highest wage bill and will finish in the top 7. They will be way behind the other 6 teams in the top 7 in terms of wages and turnover. Yet apparently they are apparently becoming a bit of a joke. They are actually doing perfectly well, in fact possible a bit better than they should be given their size.
The idea that Redknapp had taken them as far as he could seems flawed to me as it suggests another manager could have taken them even further, which when you look at how things are in football these days, that is hugely unlikely. When you look at the size of their wage bill it would incredibly hard to attract better players. They've tried on several occasions to higher "tactical coaches" to bridge the gap, but anyone who still believes in them is deluded if you ask me.
The truth is under Redknapp they over achieved and he was rightly lauded in the media, though this didn't sit well with lots of football fans as he isn't popular. Now they are still doing well all things considered. There net transfer spend over the last 5 years is very low and their spending on wages is much lower than the teams above them. They just don't have the scale to threaten at the top of the league. You need to be amssive club that can generate a huge income or be owned by wealthy benefactors.
Ultimately Spurs seem to consistently finish top of the also rans, which actually shows how well run they are. Yet due to their relatively large fan base and tradition they manage to somehow keep themselves seemingly relevant in discussions about who is going to win things each season and fight for the top 4. This makes them look like perennial losers, when if anything, for close to a decade now they have been one of the most effectively run clubs in the world. The truth is Spurs board should be congratulated, but they don't actually want that. They've got a nice little business model going and it's very well served by everyone talking about them as failed big club, rather than the truth, which is a very successful mid sized club. Levy and ENIC bought the club for about £30 million and have since gone about turning it into a £300-£400 million club, by keeping their fans believing they are close. They've built a brilliant training facility, have plans for a great stadium which Levy seems to be using every trick in the book to make others pay for and they have consistent European football and flirt with the big boys. But even though between them they are very wealthy, there is no chance Levy and Lewis would do what is needed to give Spurs a real chance of success.
Levy is by far the most intelligent man in football. He's got a 1st class honours degree from Cambridge for one thing and I doubt anyone else could boast that. The near perfect correlation between overall spending and success wont have been missed by him. He knows what it really takes to be successful and therefore can't have any serious expectations. But as long as he keeps people thinking he has and keeps doing the great job he is (and consistent top 6 finished is a great job) and all the while people considering it a failure, then his investment will grow. Before he took over Spurs were well behind the likes of Leeds, Villa and Newcastle. Now a sponsor would probably pay nearly twice as much to have their names on a Spurs shirt that any of those clubs, or the naming rights for their stadium will go for so much more. Top players actually consider and sometimes sign for Spurs. Ramos was the most sort after manager in Europe and he went there! LVG probably will go there. Everyone always believes that Spurs are on the brink. They've made a brand from it. You look at the growth markets of football around the world and Spurs will have a presence yet no other "also ran" will. The key to this is that they have convinced everyone they have the potential to go to the next level, when in reality they are doing superbly well to be where they are.... (to be cont.)
...Modern Premiership football is about money. What has happened to Spurs actually proves than more than anything. Look at how well they did investing a good young talent and finding value abroad. They went from mid table failures to CL challengers and when their time came look what happened. Man City over night became the wealthiest club in the world. Spurs have finished in the top 5 for the last 4 seasons and would have been in the CL every year had Man City not come along. They'd have done so on a far lower budget than anyone else, yet instead of Premier League football fans acknowledging this and crediting them for a great job, they are seen as a joke. That's the reality of Prem football. You spend years improving your squad, investing in the clubs future with a brilliant new training facility and instead of getting rewarded for it, a rich Arab comes along and people say you failed and should have done what Dortmund did! Also it's naive to think you can judge their spending at such an early stage. As I pointed out Spurs have a recent history of buying players and developing them. After his first season at Spurs would anyone have thought a year later we'd pay £18.6 million for Michael Carrick. Modric was considered a disappointment after his first season, but went on to become the best CM in the league. Bale struggled for his first 2 or 3 seasons before becoming the best player in the league. Spurs finished 5th in 2006/7 but then finished 8th and 9th the following seasons, it looked like they'd spent badly, but this was the period in which they bought Bale and Modric. They then finished 4 times in the top in a row. Would it really surprise you if a couple of Spurs signings went on the be major success's? I doubt anyone would be in shock if in 2 years from now Eriksen and Lamela are among the most sort after players in Europe. I think calling them a joke based on their summer spending is very premature especially given their recent history.
It's not as if Spurs can go out and spend a £100 million on top quality players. They don't pay the wages for that. They have to buy players who fit into their wage structure and that usually means buying younger players and players from outside the big 3 leagues. These players often take a year or two to adapt to a new league. For example, Lamela was their biggest signing and he's been injured for most of the season and is only 21. You can hardly call him a flop. Capoue has been injured for most of the season. Chiriches was doing well for them, but he too is now a long term injured player. Both Eriksen, Chadli and Paulinho are all new to the league, but at times have all shown their quality. But they will need time. The only one who can be seen as a real let down is Soldaldo. Even though it's his first season, he just doesn't seem to be a good fit for this league. Last season our fans would have said Cleverly and Welbeck are better than Henderson and Strurridge.
Ultimately you can't expect a club like Spurs to go out and buy a load of top quality players. Their entire model, which has seen them become CL challengers and meant they can spend £100 million is one window, has been built on buying players before they are ready to make a big impact. If in two years time they are mid table and their signings didn't work out, you can say they are a joke. But at the moment the very fact they were able to spend £100 in one window and still break even should actually be inspiring to an Everton fan.
Timbo decided that the best form of defence against Liverpool was attack - the same ploy Wenger tried in fact. And for over a minute it worked!!! Sadly the game lasted a tad longer than that and Spurs were humiliated. Timbo is the PE teacher who is suddenly asked to be headmaster and hasn't the faintest idea what to do. He rants and blames his players and as a result comes across as a complete clueless pillock. I hope he knows where the nearest office is to sign on as I'm not sure he will even last until May at this rate.
They should have sold Bale and kept the money in the kitty and spend it slowly improving. Not go and splash the lot on a load of foreign unproven in prem players.
They could now be looking at signing up Lallana, Shaw and Lukaku. Instead all the money has gone on players failing in the first team or playing u21 and reserves football.
Should have tried to persuade Martinez when they had the chance. I'm sure the Spurs fans would have loved the football he tries to play though this article perhaps demonstrates why he never ended up at White Hart Lane:
To just catch a club like spurs to finish 6th we would need 150 or 170 million on players
I forgot about that 170 million that Everton spent!
But we ain't Everton how much do you think it would cost to buy the Everton team
no we're not, but you said you need 150/170 mil to catch Spurs, and he rightly pointed out Everton are above them without spending that. If you buy the right players (easily said than done obviously) then you don't need to spend that to finish in top 7.
To catch Everton with our current crop would cost us 80 to 90 mil
To catch spurs we would have to double that
Spurs are 6th not due to players it's due to the mgr and the total piss poor way the club runs
Everton won't catch arsenal no matter how much I would like them to they will fall short that's because they haven't spent enough on players
Spurs have spent the money they have over the last 5-8 years to get into the top 4 not top 7
For us to go from 4th bottom in the championship to 4th in the prem
we need to either find 16 players mainly from the youth team as good as the becks, Neville's , butt, scholes, giggs etc or we need to spend way over the 150 million mark
If you didn't every team in the prem would gamble their whole TV money to get there
I get where they are in the league and it means that their mgr has them playing better than spuds
So if you were to buy Berkley what would he cost
30 mil
If you were to buy lakaku ( spelling)
30 mil
Baines
25/30mil
Jageilka
15/20
Coleman
20/25 mil
Then the rest of their team would easily equal 30 mil combined if not more
so that's 150 mil of players plus a real good mgr
We have a squad worth about 5 or 6 million when added together
So to catch Everton it would cost us roughly 150 mil
Spurs team on paper is worth more should be achieving more so for us to catch them would cost more
Just because spurs are being managed by a man who is consumed by cliches and the fact he thinks fans want to hear him speak like a chap in the corner pin
Doesn't mean it would cost us less to catch them
Everton May not have spent that amount to catch them but the talent they have in their team is well worth the 150 million it takes to do so if you are charlton athletic
Everton are twice if not three times the size of club we are on and off the pitch
That's the issue here if people thought a rich sugar daddy taking us over would've done a man citeh that's the reality of spend needed just to aim for top 4
There was though IA on the numerous threads pre RD about moving from the valley and wanting a gazillionaire to buy us
Too me it shows that doing it the RD way could well be the correct way
OK, fair point.
That Man Utd forum post doesn't make much sense to me. Seems to say that the 'Spurs failure' story is just good marketing. The problems are with the managers and transfer policy, but swapping Bale for £100m worth of players should really result in finishing higher in the league. Also, I wasn't aware that Spurs paid especially low wages relative to talent. Sure, they'll pay less than Chelsea & Man City, but is it obvious that they're the 7th highest payers in England?
Man utd in talks with Nike in line for a 500 million pound naming right of the ground
The glaziers and the debt they put on them is insane yet they will be the first billion pound buy out and then what else will happen to football in this country
Clubs like ours will never compete on that level and as such the amount of money needed just to compete in the champ will mirror what used to be needed in the prem to stay up
Fans will not be happy with that managers will be fired for alleged failure and clubs will become more unstable
I hope RD is right and looks to find the niche in the market to buck that trend
He will only get a couple of seasons to get it right though as in the end the youth players become first teamers like Southampton and then you have to get your goal and pray to the football gods you can keep churning them out to appear in the first team together
You need 4 or 5 to come through together
Poyet Cousins Solly
Is not enough to get away from a relegation without a lot of investment
Hopefully we can stay up and the kids can join them
This is worth a look. Net spend for PL clubs over the last 5 seasons (presumably including this season so the Bale money is in there too)...
Spurs may have shelled out but within the model that Levy and ENIC set out so long ago. The club was to be self-sustainable in the most part, by buying non-proven players, either young English talent or foreign talent for relatively modest fees and wages, both of which with a view to a sell on value at a later date at the end of the contract. Soldado is/was the only player to fall outside of that model in the last 5/6 years. When was the last time Spurs bought an established PL performer? We're talking years ago now. The only reason we got Adebayor was because of the low transfer fee and City agreeing to pay half of his wages for 2-3 years. I cant think of one off the top of my head.
Pretty much what your owner is planning to do with CAFC.
There appears to be a greater correlation between wages and success in football, than transfer fees and success. In that regard Levy's spending on wages rather than transfers is sensible. From memory Spurs are the 6th biggest spenders on wages.
The model spurs use is fine and makes real sense I ain't trying to belittle it or knock it
I firmly believe with the right mgr the nucleous of the squad you have should be top 4
Look at Stoke and villa in that spend
Stoke arguably better this season than many gone by
90 mil for mid table prem
Sthampton they are a good bench as their youth plus their spend has got them in a good place but it's still a lot of money
Everton bucks that trend but when you look at the players they have now to replace them like for like when people come sniffing will cost them fortunes and that spend will go up
Comments
I don't like spuds but they are undoubtably a big club in England
And should be a warning to all fans who want a rich sugar daddy to own us
To just catch a club like spurs to finish 6th we would need 150 or 170 million on players
That is frightening and unsustainable
So those in need of instant results and instant success just think of the implications of getting it wrong
There was a great post on a Man Utd forum recently about Spurs which was an interesting read and I agree with most of it...its a long'un but worth a read...
They could now be looking at signing up Lallana, Shaw and Lukaku. Instead all the money has gone on players failing in the first team or playing u21 and reserves football.
But we ain't Everton how much do you think it would cost to buy the Everton team
dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2160372/Roberto-Martinez-tops-Tottenhams-shortlist.html
no we're not, but you said you need 150/170 mil to catch Spurs, and he rightly pointed out Everton are above them without spending that. If you buy the right players (easily said than done obviously) then you don't need to spend that to finish in top 7.
To catch spurs we would have to double that
Spurs are 6th not due to players it's due to the mgr and the total piss poor way the club runs
Everton won't catch arsenal no matter how much I would like them to they will fall short that's because they haven't spent enough on players
Spurs have spent the money they have over the last 5-8 years to get into the top 4 not top 7
For us to go from 4th bottom in the championship to 4th in the prem
we need to either find 16 players mainly from the youth team as good as the becks, Neville's , butt, scholes, giggs etc or we need to spend way over the 150 million mark
If you didn't every team in the prem would gamble their whole TV money to get there
And there's no guarantee spurs will finish above Everton next year
So if you were to buy Berkley what would he cost
30 mil
If you were to buy lakaku ( spelling)
30 mil
Baines
25/30mil
Jageilka
15/20
Coleman
20/25 mil
Then the rest of their team would easily equal 30 mil combined if not more
so that's 150 mil of players plus a real good mgr
We have a squad worth about 5 or 6 million when added together
So to catch Everton it would cost us roughly 150 mil
Spurs team on paper is worth more should be achieving more so for us to catch them would cost more
Just because spurs are being managed by a man who is consumed by cliches and the fact he thinks fans want to hear him speak like a chap in the corner pin
Doesn't mean it would cost us less to catch them
Everton May not have spent that amount to catch them but the talent they have in their team is well worth the 150 million it takes to do so if you are charlton athletic
Everton are twice if not three times the size of club we are on and off the pitch
That's the issue here if people thought a rich sugar daddy taking us over would've done a man citeh that's the reality of spend needed just to aim for top 4
But I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting that should be the aim.
How much did those players cost Everton?
Barkley - academy player
Lukaku - loan player
Baines - £6m
Jagielka - £4m
Coleman - £60k
Too me it shows that doing it the RD way could well be the correct way
That Man Utd forum post doesn't make much sense to me. Seems to say that the 'Spurs failure' story is just good marketing. The problems are with the managers and transfer policy, but swapping Bale for £100m worth of players should really result in finishing higher in the league. Also, I wasn't aware that Spurs paid especially low wages relative to talent. Sure, they'll pay less than Chelsea & Man City, but is it obvious that they're the 7th highest payers in England?
The glaziers and the debt they put on them is insane yet they will be the first billion pound buy out and then what else will happen to football in this country
Clubs like ours will never compete on that level and as such the amount of money needed just to compete in the champ will mirror what used to be needed in the prem to stay up
Fans will not be happy with that managers will be fired for alleged failure and clubs will become more unstable
I hope RD is right and looks to find the niche in the market to buck that trend
He will only get a couple of seasons to get it right though as in the end the youth players become first teamers like Southampton and then you have to get your goal and pray to the football gods you can keep churning them out to appear in the first team together
You need 4 or 5 to come through together
Poyet
Cousins
Solly
Is not enough to get away from a relegation without a lot of investment
Hopefully we can stay up and the kids can join them
Spurs may have shelled out but within the model that Levy and ENIC set out so long ago. The club was to be self-sustainable in the most part, by buying non-proven players, either young English talent or foreign talent for relatively modest fees and wages, both of which with a view to a sell on value at a later date at the end of the contract. Soldado is/was the only player to fall outside of that model in the last 5/6 years. When was the last time Spurs bought an established PL performer? We're talking years ago now. The only reason we got Adebayor was because of the low transfer fee and City agreeing to pay half of his wages for 2-3 years. I cant think of one off the top of my head.
Pretty much what your owner is planning to do with CAFC.
There appears to be a greater correlation between wages and success in football, than transfer fees and success. In that regard Levy's spending on wages rather than transfers is sensible. From memory Spurs are the 6th biggest spenders on wages.
I firmly believe with the right mgr the nucleous of the squad you have should be top 4
Look at Stoke and villa in that spend
Stoke arguably better this season than many gone by
90 mil for mid table prem
Sthampton they are a good bench as their youth plus their spend has got them in a good place but it's still a lot of money
Everton bucks that trend but when you look at the players they have now to replace them like for like when people come sniffing will cost them fortunes and that spend will go up